Why doesn't news media describe gory details of suicide bombings?

Iamme · 2nd February 2008, 03:56 PM

Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM?

This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away.

Darth Rotor · 2nd February 2008, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Why doesn't news media describe gory details of suicide bombings?

Because they hate you, and don't want you to have any fun.

DR

JWideman · 2nd February 2008, 05:39 PM

They were probably vaporized in an instant. Not very exciting.

Iamme · 2nd February 2008, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Because they hate you, and don't want you to have any fun.

DR

Huh. So you all hate me, and you think the news media also hates me. Huh.

Iamme · 2nd February 2008, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by JWideman

They were probably vaporized in an instant. Not very exciting.

I doubt it.

I once saw older teenagers, when I was about 10, unload a shotgun point blank into a rabbit that THOUGHT it was camoflouged. Well, the rabbit's head was dangling by fur and the entrails flew out and were still wiggling. The intestines, specifically, were all out and they looked like something from a sausage factory. An eyeball was hanging out of it's socket. Stuff like that. It was quite interesting to see, actually.

fuelair · 2nd February 2008, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Iamme

I doubt it.

I once saw older teenagers, when I was about 10, unload a shotgun point blank into a rabbit that THOUGHT it was camoflouged. Well, the rabbit's head was dangling by fur and the entrails flew out and were still wiggling. The intestines, specifically, were all out and they looked like something from a sausage factory. An eyeball was hanging out of it's socket. Stuff like that. It was quite interesting to see, actually.

So, do you have the heart of a small child?

In a jar of formaldehyde on your desk?

PAC · 2nd February 2008, 06:57 PM

Why did the Bush administration ban photos of returning flag draped coffins?

As I understand, photos during the Civil War were the first time average citizens saw the horrors of war and they were stunned.

I am curious and would like to see all kinds of things...an autopsy, etc.

fuelair · 2nd February 2008, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by PAC

Why did the Bush administration ban photos of returning flag draped coffins?

As I understand, photos during the Civil War were the first time average citizens saw the horrors of war and they were stunned.

I am curious and would like to see all kinds of things...an autopsy, etc.

cable (HBO for one) has had these on.

Cylinder · 2nd February 2008, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by PAC

Why did the Bush administration ban photos of returning flag draped coffins?

As I understand, photos during the Civil War were the first time average citizens saw the horrors of war and they were stunned.

I am curious and would like to see all kinds of things...an autopsy, etc.

The Dover Ban was instituted formally in 1991.

shadron · 2nd February 2008, 09:56 PM

There are any number of places on the web where these kind of pictures and videos can be found if your curiosity runs to that. There are autopsies and medical operations on medical sites. I suppose they are middlin'-popular, but they'll never become mainstream, I don't think. For one reason, the old saw about seeing them once usually is true enough. When you've seen a doctor place an artificial knee joint in the femur bone (it's done with a heavy mallet) you'll likely not need to see it again. The reason for why its not more in your face is that its not popular enough; the demand, such as it is, is fulfilled by the existing outlets. If it were more popular, Fox and CNN would be running it, through no-name subsidiaries. Nuts - perhaps they are.

As for the bombers, there are often pieces and parts left; chemical explosives usually don't vaporize as much as simply tear everything apart. There was a video about a year ago of the remains of a bomber (looked to be about half the torso and the head) which were crying out for a drink; other people just walked over and around it until it stopped.

Darth Rotor · 3rd February 2008, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Cylinder

The Dover Ban was instituted formally in 1991.

Please don't confuse PAC with facts, Cylinder, you know that you are an over the top military sort.

Love your show.

DR

Boo · 3rd February 2008, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM?

This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away.

Because there are more than a few of us who already have seen these things and don't need any more nightmares, thankyouverymuch. I stopped watching local and national news programs many years ago because of the unrelenting repetition of the myriad ways humans beings can inflict pain and damage on one another. At least online I can control what images and stories I see.

If you want to satisfy your morbid curiosity there are places on the internet you can do that.

These people did not die for your amusement and are not a spectacle to entertain you. If you want to amuse yourself watching people die in that manner there are plenty of movies that will show it to you. The people that died were innocent of nothing more then going about their daily lives and deserve more respect then to have their final moments displayed to satisfy your morbid curiosity.

Boo

E.J.Armstrong · 4th February 2008, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM?

This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away.

Because it would be completely sick.

Why not show the children killed by US military bombing of a wedding party for example or of the results of a Hamas and Israeli rocket attack on innocent people? That would be just as sick and they would still be just as dead. The world needs to spotlight those who use innocent women and children in their inhuman attempts to teach others a lesson.

Tricky · 4th February 2008, 10:19 AM

They do sometimes. It's never a long essay. Just bits and pieces.
Yes, I'm completely sick, but that doesn't make me a bad person, does it?

Polaris · 5th February 2008, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM?

This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away.

www.ogrish.com

I think that site's still up. Enjoy.

Father Dagon · 5th February 2008, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM?

No kidding? They really had trisomy 21?

Originally Posted by Cylinder

The Dover Ban was instituted formally in 1991.

Fools! It will only fan the fires of the tinfoils and smother the crys for venegance.

shadron · 5th February 2008, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

Why not show the children killed by US military bombing of a wedding party for example or of the results of a Hamas and Israeli rocket attack on innocent people? That would be just as sick and they would still be just as dead. The world needs to spotlight those who use innocent women and children in their inhuman attempts to teach others a lesson.

Indeed, why not? Some of the people who run the sites where these things exist do so for the express purpose of trying to shock people into action. During WWII and the Korean War reporters were part (at least on a shifting temporary basis) of units in action in these wars. In the VietNamese War they brought the carnage off the printed page and right onto the home screen, which is why the Army today works so hard to keep them corralled and away from the front "for their own safety". What, do you suppose, would be the effect of "The Best of Today's Warfare" during the battle for Fallujah each night at 5:00? Do you suppose Bush would be able to hold out the way he does against demands for a timetable with that on the TV?

Father Dagon · 5th February 2008, 11:03 AM

Regarding Nguyen Ngoc Loan's, the national police chief of South Vietnam, summary execution of Nguyen Van Lem: A misinterpretation is that the photograph (and the film) of the execution "turned the scales" of public opinion in the US. On the contrary, many supported Loan, as they thought it was the right way to deal with commie death squads.

Lucy82 · 5th February 2008, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM?

Leaving aside the very dubious sentiment expressed here, how DARE you use 'mongoloid' as an insult? 'Mongols', or 'people with Down's Syndrome' as enlightened people call them, are human beings, most of whom lead happy, productive lives.

My sister is one of them, which explains why if this forum allowed swearing I would be being a LOT less polite than I am now.

Silly Green Monkey · 5th February 2008, 11:27 AM

It sounded more to me like an identifier ( I do still hear Down's being referred to as Mongoloid) than as a insult.

Polaris · 5th February 2008, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Lucy82

Leaving aside the very dubious sentiment expressed here, how DARE you use 'mongoloid' as an insult? 'Mongols', or 'people with Down's Syndrome' as enlightened people call them, are human beings, most of whom lead happy, productive lives.

My sister is one of them, which explains why if this forum allowed swearing I would be being a LOT less polite than I am now.

He's using it to describe them because there were reports that the bombers were indeed mentally retarded.

Lucy82 · 5th February 2008, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Polaris

He's using it to describe them because there were reports that the bombers were indeed mentally retarded.

Oh my god. I feel physically sick. I hadn't seen any of the news reports. Just when you think the human race can't sink any lower...

Iamme · 5th February 2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Boo

These people did not die for your amusement and are not a spectacle to entertain you. If you want to amuse yourself watching people die in that manner there are plenty of movies that will show it to you.

Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat.

Then I have a dvd at home, some B-movie of the B-movies, and they showed this guy getting his head blown off at point blank range by a grenade launcher, and they showed his head coming off and going through a wall, and leaving a 2 inch stub of neckbone, and they showed down in the top of the neck a little and showed both arteries on each side squirting out blood with no head on the neck anymore.

Iamme · 5th February 2008, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lucy82

Leaving aside the very dubious sentiment expressed here, how DARE you use 'mongoloid' as an insult? 'Mongols', or 'people with Down's Syndrome' as enlightened people call them, are human beings, most of whom lead happy, productive lives.

My sister is one of them, which explains why if this forum allowed swearing I would be being a LOT less polite than I am now.

I'm sorry what I said hit close to the heart. No harm intended. They actually used the term on the news! They said both Mongoloids and Down's Syndrome.

The Painter · 5th February 2008, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat.

Then I have a dvd at home, some B-movie of the B-movies, and they showed this guy getting his head blown off at point blank range by a grenade launcher, and they showed his head coming off and going through a wall, and leaving a 2 inch stub of neckbone, and they showed down in the top of the neck a little and showed both arteries on each side squirting out blood with no head on the neck anymore.

I think you should enlist. That is providing you can pass the psych test, which could be a real problem for you.

Sir Robin Goodfellow · 5th February 2008, 05:31 PM

I can't imagine anyone under ninety referring to someone who has Down syndrome as a "Mongoloid". It's kind of like when somebody's grandpa calls black people "darkies".

Cylinder · 5th February 2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by shadron

Indeed, why not?

Because the Laws of Armed Conflict - specifically Article 16 of the Fourth Geneva Convention - restrict what US forces can authorize with regard to non-combatant casualties:

Quote:

The wounded and sick, as well as the infirm, and expectant mothers, shall be the object of particular protection and respect.

As far as military considerations allow, each Party to the conflict shall facilitate the steps taken to search for the killed and wounded, to assist the shipwrecked and other persons exposed to grave danger, and to protect them against pillage and ill-treatment.

--

Originally Posted by shadron

During WWII and the Korean War reporters were part (at least on a shifting temporary basis) of units in action in these wars. In the VietNamese War they brought the carnage off the printed page and right onto the home screen, which is why the Army today works so hard to keep them corralled and away from the front "for their own safety". What, do you suppose, would be the effect of "The Best of Today's Warfare" during the battle for Fallujah each night at 5:00? Do you suppose Bush would be able to hold out the way he does against demands for a timetable with that on the TV?

Of course, both the first and second battles for Fallujah were covered by embedded reporters - that's why everyone is so familiar with it. Remember the US Marine who was excoriated by the media for shooting a wounded insurgent in an Iraqi mosque? That video was taken by NBC's Kevin Sites of Nov 13, 2004 - three days after the initial assault and three days before the the city was secured. From NBC'c narrative:

Quote:

Saturday, however, reports surfaced that mosques in the region had been reoccupied, including the mosque the Marine battalion had stormed the day before.

Two units that were not involved in Friday’s fighting advanced on the mosque, one moving around the back and the second, accompanied by Sites, from the front. Sites said he could hear gunfire from inside.

That sounds a bit like an embedded reporter in a combat operation to me.

Foolmewunz · 5th February 2008, 08:14 PM

What's with the I AM crowd(IamIvy, iAmerican, Iamme)?

Is there a competition to see who can post the most insensitive and/or reprehensible drivel?

Iamme... I'm really getting worried for you. Every now and then you slip into "normal", but more often than not, you're more "Norman" - not the invaders of England in 1066, but the guy in the motel, Norman Bates. Seriously - do you have anyone you can talk out some of these fantasies and ideas with?

slingblade · 6th February 2008, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat.

No. There was no such scene even remotely like that in Young Frankenstein.

And what you describe does not fit into any of my definitions for "really neat."

I recently watched someone die. I watched every moment of it, and it lasted for many hours. There was nothing really neat about it. Young Frankenstein happened to be one of her favorite movies.

bjb · 6th February 2008, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sir Robin Goodfellow

I can't imagine anyone under ninety referring to someone who has Down syndrome as a "Mongoloid". It's kind of like when somebody's grandpa calls black people "darkies".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080202.../iraqunrest_13

It was an Iraqi who used the term 'mongoloid'. At least, it was translated that way into English.

BPSCG · 6th February 2008, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat.

Then I have a dvd at home, some B-movie of the B-movies, and they showed this guy getting his head blown off at point blank range by a grenade launcher, and they showed his head coming off and going through a wall, and leaving a 2 inch stub of neckbone, and they showed down in the top of the neck a little and showed both arteries on each side squirting out blood with no head on the neck anymore.

I remember reading, in, oh, I think it was about fifth grade, an explanation of how many atoms there are in every breath you take. There was a rough calculation (I forget how it went) said that with every breath, you take in a million or so atoms of nitrogen that were once breathed by Leonardo da Vinci.

Unfortunately, it means I also breathe in a million or so atoms once breathed by Iamme.

Pardon me while I go take a bath in Clorox.

Father Dagon · 7th February 2008, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by bjb

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080202.../iraqunrest_13

It was an Iraqi who used the term 'mongoloid'. At least, it was translated that way into English.

The article mentionend photographs. Anyone who has photographs of them? And I guess that al-Qaeda used remote controlled explosives. Me, I wouldn't use anyone with even the slightest retardation for something as sensitive as a suicide attack against crowds. (Not the act itself is sensitive, but the cirumstances. An undisciplined person might starting to toy with the trigger and the explosives goes of in a narrow and desolate alley and the bomber might be the only casualty. Etc, etc.) My guess is that al-Qaeda trained them to be couriers. Wear X, go to place Y where person Z will meet you and relieve you of your cargo.

NoZed Avenger · 7th February 2008, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Lucy82

Oh my god. I feel physically sick. I hadn't seen any of the news reports. Just when you think the human race can't sink any lower...

At the risk of violating the 'no true Scotsman' rule -- I cannot think of the trash that planned this as human any more. They are missing something that the rest of us -- no matter how nasty -- have inside us.

BPSCG · 7th February 2008, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger

At the risk of violating the 'no true Scotsman' rule -- I cannot think of the trash that planned this as human any more. They are missing something that the rest of us -- no matter how nasty -- have inside us.

Meh - LordoftheLeftHand thinks it's no worse than waterboarding.

Polaris · 8th February 2008, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

I remember reading, in, oh, I think it was about fifth grade, an explanation of how many atoms there are in every breath you take. There was a rough calculation (I forget how it went) said that with every breath, you take in a million or so atoms of nitrogen that were once breathed by Leonardo da Vinci.

Unfortunately, it means I also breathe in a million or so atoms once breathed by Iamme.

Pardon me while I go take a bath in Clorox.

Richard Dawkins, in a seminar, stated something similar about if you drink a certain (trivial) amount of water you will drink a molecule that has passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell. You can find the speech on youtube but I don't know the exact address (that site is Verboten at my job). It'll take some time to get to, but listening to Dawkins is never a waste of time.

Ron_Tomkins · 8th February 2008, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Iamme

Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart?

I'm thinking: No.

Autolite · 9th February 2008, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Iamme

This could be considered a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak.

Iamme, I am not quite sure why you think something like this would be news worthy. I am not talking about the morality aspects of the issue, but isn't it fairly common knowledge (the effects of an explosive blast on the human body)? I used to work with explosives and I must admit that it was entertaining watching the detonation but there really wasn't any mystery as to what the end results would be ...

Autolite · 9th February 2008, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Polaris

Richard Dawkins, in a seminar, stated something similar about if you drink a certain (trivial) amount of water you will drink a molecule that has passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell.

Whoa! I'm I ever glad that some-body's cleared that up for me. I used to think that I was just lousy at making coffee...

Joppy · 9th February 2008, 10:25 PM

Oh why didn't I looked at who the OP was before opening this thread?

2nd February 2008, 03:56 PM	#1
Iamme Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 4,622	Why doesn't news media describe gory details of suicide bombings? Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM? This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away.
	__________________ I lost my mind many years ago and it hasn't affected me a bit...a bit..a bit..a bit.

2nd February 2008, 05:38 PM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,257	Originally Posted by Iamme Why doesn't news media describe gory details of suicide bombings? Because they hate you, and don't want you to have any fun. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis Last edited by Darth Rotor; 2nd February 2008 at 05:38 PM.

2nd February 2008, 05:58 PM	#4
Iamme Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 4,622	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Because they hate you, and don't want you to have any fun. DR Huh. So you all hate me, and you think the news media also hates me. Huh.
	__________________ I lost my mind many years ago and it hasn't affected me a bit...a bit..a bit..a bit.

2nd February 2008, 06:02 PM	#5
Iamme Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 4,622	Originally Posted by JWideman They were probably vaporized in an instant. Not very exciting. I doubt it. I once saw older teenagers, when I was about 10, unload a shotgun point blank into a rabbit that THOUGHT it was camoflouged. Well, the rabbit's head was dangling by fur and the entrails flew out and were still wiggling. The intestines, specifically, were all out and they looked like something from a sausage factory. An eyeball was hanging out of it's socket. Stuff like that. It was quite interesting to see, actually.
	__________________ I lost my mind many years ago and it hasn't affected me a bit...a bit..a bit..a bit.

2nd February 2008, 06:26 PM	#6
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,942	Originally Posted by Iamme I doubt it. I once saw older teenagers, when I was about 10, unload a shotgun point blank into a rabbit that THOUGHT it was camoflouged. Well, the rabbit's head was dangling by fur and the entrails flew out and were still wiggling. The intestines, specifically, were all out and they looked like something from a sausage factory. An eyeball was hanging out of it's socket. Stuff like that. It was quite interesting to see, actually. So, do you have the heart of a small child? In a jar of formaldehyde on your desk?
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,942

2nd February 2008, 05:39 PM	#3
JWideman Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,241	They were probably vaporized in an instant. Not very exciting.

2nd February 2008, 06:57 PM	#7
PAC Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 304	Why did the Bush administration ban photos of returning flag draped coffins? As I understand, photos during the Civil War were the first time average citizens saw the horrors of war and they were stunned. I am curious and would like to see all kinds of things...an autopsy, etc.
PAC Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 304	__________________ "Falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after." - Jonathan Swift

2nd February 2008, 09:12 PM	#8
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,942	Originally Posted by PAC Why did the Bush administration ban photos of returning flag draped coffins? As I understand, photos during the Civil War were the first time average citizens saw the horrors of war and they were stunned. I am curious and would like to see all kinds of things...an autopsy, etc. cable (HBO for one) has had these on.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,942

2nd February 2008, 09:28 PM	#9
Cylinder Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,859	Originally Posted by PAC Why did the Bush administration ban photos of returning flag draped coffins? As I understand, photos during the Civil War were the first time average citizens saw the horrors of war and they were stunned. I am curious and would like to see all kinds of things...an autopsy, etc. The Dover Ban was instituted formally in 1991.
	__________________ If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm

2nd February 2008, 09:56 PM	#10
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,719	There are any number of places on the web where these kind of pictures and videos can be found if your curiosity runs to that. There are autopsies and medical operations on medical sites. I suppose they are middlin'-popular, but they'll never become mainstream, I don't think. For one reason, the old saw about seeing them once usually is true enough. When you've seen a doctor place an artificial knee joint in the femur bone (it's done with a heavy mallet) you'll likely not need to see it again. The reason for why its not more in your face is that its not popular enough; the demand, such as it is, is fulfilled by the existing outlets. If it were more popular, Fox and CNN would be running it, through no-name subsidiaries. Nuts - perhaps they are. As for the bombers, there are often pieces and parts left; chemical explosives usually don't vaporize as much as simply tear everything apart. There was a video about a year ago of the remains of a bomber (looked to be about half the torso and the head) which were crying out for a drink; other people just walked over and around it until it stopped.
	Last edited by shadron; 2nd February 2008 at 09:58 PM.

3rd February 2008, 08:30 AM	#11
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,257	Originally Posted by Cylinder The Dover Ban was instituted formally in 1991. Please don't confuse PAC with facts, Cylinder, you know that you are an over the top military sort. Love your show. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

3rd February 2008, 09:25 AM	#12
Boo ts Join Date: May 2003 Location: state of chaos Posts: 3,743	Originally Posted by Iamme Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM? This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away. Because there are more than a few of us who already have seen these things and don't need any more nightmares, thankyouverymuch. I stopped watching local and national news programs many years ago because of the unrelenting repetition of the myriad ways humans beings can inflict pain and damage on one another. At least online I can control what images and stories I see. If you want to satisfy your morbid curiosity there are places on the internet you can do that. These people did not die for your amusement and are not a spectacle to entertain you. If you want to amuse yourself watching people die in that manner there are plenty of movies that will show it to you. The people that died were innocent of nothing more then going about their daily lives and deserve more respect then to have their final moments displayed to satisfy your morbid curiosity. Boo
	__________________ Wounds heal. Morally Obtuse. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.

4th February 2008, 10:08 AM	#13
E.J.Armstrong Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,825	Originally Posted by Iamme Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM? This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away. Because it would be completely sick. Why not show the children killed by US military bombing of a wedding party for example or of the results of a Hamas and Israeli rocket attack on innocent people? That would be just as sick and they would still be just as dead. The world needs to spotlight those who use innocent women and children in their inhuman attempts to teach others a lesson.
	__________________ “Everybody is somebody’s Jew. And today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.” Primo Levi Capitalist (n) Someone who pays himself and his friends billions of dollars of your money as a reward for destroying your entire economy. Israelis are taught that Palestinians are not human beings like them. Gideon Levy The Punishment of Gaza

4th February 2008, 10:19 AM	#14
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,362	They do sometimes. It's never a long essay. Just bits and pieces. Yes, I'm completely sick, but that doesn't make me a bad person, does it?

5th February 2008, 09:49 AM	#15
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	Originally Posted by Iamme Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM? This could be consideed a sick curiosity. I don't know if I'd actually care to see it, actually. But I think many would take a peak. And many more would at least like to hear it described. Like, if they said their heads came off and wound up ontop of a bus parked 2 blocks away. www.ogrish.com I think that site's still up. Enjoy.
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

5th February 2008, 10:08 AM	#16
Father Dagon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 1,193	Originally Posted by Iamme Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM? No kidding? They really had trisomy 21? Originally Posted by Cylinder The Dover Ban was instituted formally in 1991. Fools! It will only fan the fires of the tinfoils and smother the crys for venegance.
	__________________ "Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH" Last edited by Father Dagon; 5th February 2008 at 10:10 AM.

5th February 2008, 10:54 AM	#17
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,719	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong Why not show the children killed by US military bombing of a wedding party for example or of the results of a Hamas and Israeli rocket attack on innocent people? That would be just as sick and they would still be just as dead. The world needs to spotlight those who use innocent women and children in their inhuman attempts to teach others a lesson. Indeed, why not? Some of the people who run the sites where these things exist do so for the express purpose of trying to shock people into action. During WWII and the Korean War reporters were part (at least on a shifting temporary basis) of units in action in these wars. In the VietNamese War they brought the carnage off the printed page and right onto the home screen, which is why the Army today works so hard to keep them corralled and away from the front "for their own safety". What, do you suppose, would be the effect of "The Best of Today's Warfare" during the battle for Fallujah each night at 5:00? Do you suppose Bush would be able to hold out the way he does against demands for a timetable with that on the TV?

5th February 2008, 11:03 AM	#18
Father Dagon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 1,193	Regarding Nguyen Ngoc Loan's, the national police chief of South Vietnam, summary execution of Nguyen Van Lem: A misinterpretation is that the photograph (and the film) of the execution "turned the scales" of public opinion in the US. On the contrary, many supported Loan, as they thought it was the right way to deal with commie death squads.
	__________________ "Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH" Last edited by Father Dagon; 5th February 2008 at 11:05 AM.

5th February 2008, 11:15 AM	#19
Lucy82 Student Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 39	Originally Posted by Iamme Aren't we all rubberneckers at heart? Wouldn't a lot of people like to know the condtions, for example, of those 2 mongoloid women who were strapped with explosives and detonated yesterday, that killed many people? If that killed people in the vicinity of them, just what did it do to THEM? Leaving aside the very dubious sentiment expressed here, how DARE you use 'mongoloid' as an insult? 'Mongols', or 'people with Down's Syndrome' as enlightened people call them, are human beings, most of whom lead happy, productive lives. My sister is one of them, which explains why if this forum allowed swearing I would be being a LOT less polite than I am now.

5th February 2008, 11:27 AM	#20
Silly Green Monkey Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,047	It sounded more to me like an identifier ( I do still hear Down's being referred to as Mongoloid) than as a insult.

5th February 2008, 11:31 AM	#21
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	Originally Posted by Lucy82 Leaving aside the very dubious sentiment expressed here, how DARE you use 'mongoloid' as an insult? 'Mongols', or 'people with Down's Syndrome' as enlightened people call them, are human beings, most of whom lead happy, productive lives. My sister is one of them, which explains why if this forum allowed swearing I would be being a LOT less polite than I am now. He's using it to describe them because there were reports that the bombers were indeed mentally retarded.
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro

5th February 2008, 11:55 AM	#22
Lucy82 Student Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 39	Originally Posted by Polaris He's using it to describe them because there were reports that the bombers were indeed mentally retarded. Oh my god. I feel physically sick. I hadn't seen any of the news reports. Just when you think the human race can't sink any lower...

5th February 2008, 05:03 PM	#23
Iamme Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 4,622	Originally Posted by Boo These people did not die for your amusement and are not a spectacle to entertain you. If you want to amuse yourself watching people die in that manner there are plenty of movies that will show it to you. Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat. Then I have a dvd at home, some B-movie of the B-movies, and they showed this guy getting his head blown off at point blank range by a grenade launcher, and they showed his head coming off and going through a wall, and leaving a 2 inch stub of neckbone, and they showed down in the top of the neck a little and showed both arteries on each side squirting out blood with no head on the neck anymore.
	__________________ I lost my mind many years ago and it hasn't affected me a bit...a bit..a bit..a bit. Last edited by Iamme; 5th February 2008 at 05:04 PM.

5th February 2008, 05:06 PM	#24
Iamme Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 4,622	Originally Posted by Lucy82 Leaving aside the very dubious sentiment expressed here, how DARE you use 'mongoloid' as an insult? 'Mongols', or 'people with Down's Syndrome' as enlightened people call them, are human beings, most of whom lead happy, productive lives. My sister is one of them, which explains why if this forum allowed swearing I would be being a LOT less polite than I am now. I'm sorry what I said hit close to the heart. No harm intended. They actually used the term on the news! They said both Mongoloids and Down's Syndrome.
	__________________ I lost my mind many years ago and it hasn't affected me a bit...a bit..a bit..a bit.

5th February 2008, 05:09 PM	#25
The Painter Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York Posts: 2,656	Originally Posted by Iamme Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat. Then I have a dvd at home, some B-movie of the B-movies, and they showed this guy getting his head blown off at point blank range by a grenade launcher, and they showed his head coming off and going through a wall, and leaving a 2 inch stub of neckbone, and they showed down in the top of the neck a little and showed both arteries on each side squirting out blood with no head on the neck anymore. I think you should enlist. That is providing you can pass the psych test, which could be a real problem for you.

5th February 2008, 05:31 PM	#26
Sir Robin Goodfellow Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Estevan (wear da fox hat) Posts: 2,751	I can't imagine anyone under ninety referring to someone who has Down syndrome as a "Mongoloid". It's kind of like when somebody's grandpa calls black people "darkies".

5th February 2008, 08:01 PM	#27
Cylinder Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,859	Originally Posted by shadron Indeed, why not? Because the Laws of Armed Conflict - specifically Article 16 of the Fourth Geneva Convention - restrict what US forces can authorize with regard to non-combatant casualties: Quote: The wounded and sick, as well as the infirm, and expectant mothers, shall be the object of particular protection and respect. As far as military considerations allow, each Party to the conflict shall facilitate the steps taken to search for the killed and wounded, to assist the shipwrecked and other persons exposed to grave danger, and to protect them against pillage and ill-treatment. -- Originally Posted by shadron During WWII and the Korean War reporters were part (at least on a shifting temporary basis) of units in action in these wars. In the VietNamese War they brought the carnage off the printed page and right onto the home screen, which is why the Army today works so hard to keep them corralled and away from the front "for their own safety". What, do you suppose, would be the effect of "The Best of Today's Warfare" during the battle for Fallujah each night at 5:00? Do you suppose Bush would be able to hold out the way he does against demands for a timetable with that on the TV? Of course, both the first and second battles for Fallujah were covered by embedded reporters - that's why everyone is so familiar with it. Remember the US Marine who was excoriated by the media for shooting a wounded insurgent in an Iraqi mosque? That video was taken by NBC's Kevin Sites of Nov 13, 2004 - three days after the initial assault and three days before the the city was secured. From NBC'c narrative: Quote: Saturday, however, reports surfaced that mosques in the region had been reoccupied, including the mosque the Marine battalion had stormed the day before. Two units that were not involved in Friday’s fighting advanced on the mosque, one moving around the back and the second, accompanied by Sites, from the front. Sites said he could hear gunfire from inside. That sounds a bit like an embedded reporter in a combat operation to me.
	__________________ If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm Last edited by Cylinder; 5th February 2008 at 08:02 PM.

5th February 2008, 08:14 PM	#28
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,516	What's with the I AM crowd(IamIvy, iAmerican, Iamme)? Is there a competition to see who can post the most insensitive and/or reprehensible drivel? Iamme... I'm really getting worried for you. Every now and then you slip into "normal", but more often than not, you're more "Norman" - not the invaders of England in 1066, but the guy in the motel, Norman Bates. Seriously - do you have anyone you can talk out some of these fantasies and ideas with?
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

6th February 2008, 12:52 AM	#29
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Originally Posted by Iamme Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat. No. There was no such scene even remotely like that in Young Frankenstein. And what you describe does not fit into any of my definitions for "really neat." I recently watched someone die. I watched every moment of it, and it lasted for many hours. There was nothing really neat about it. Young Frankenstein happened to be one of her favorite movies.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Last edited by slingblade; 6th February 2008 at 12:56 AM.

6th February 2008, 08:49 AM	#30
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079	Originally Posted by Sir Robin Goodfellow I can't imagine anyone under ninety referring to someone who has Down syndrome as a "Mongoloid". It's kind of like when somebody's grandpa calls black people "darkies". http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080202.../iraqunrest_13 It was an Iraqi who used the term 'mongoloid'. At least, it was translated that way into English.
bjb Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,079

6th February 2008, 08:56 AM	#31
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by Iamme Was it in the movie, "Young Frankenstein" that they were trying to harvest body parts and once they tried getting the head off a live person and they used lopping shears and showed the neck being squeezed in, in slow motion, and then...snip! That was really neat. The neck caved way in before the head finally got sheared off the neck. Really neat. Then I have a dvd at home, some B-movie of the B-movies, and they showed this guy getting his head blown off at point blank range by a grenade launcher, and they showed his head coming off and going through a wall, and leaving a 2 inch stub of neckbone, and they showed down in the top of the neck a little and showed both arteries on each side squirting out blood with no head on the neck anymore. I remember reading, in, oh, I think it was about fifth grade, an explanation of how many atoms there are in every breath you take. There was a rough calculation (I forget how it went) said that with every breath, you take in a million or so atoms of nitrogen that were once breathed by Leonardo da Vinci. Unfortunately, it means I also breathe in a million or so atoms once breathed by Iamme. Pardon me while I go take a bath in Clorox.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

7th February 2008, 04:44 AM	#32
Father Dagon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Mater Evropa, Sol-III Posts: 1,193	Originally Posted by bjb http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080202.../iraqunrest_13 It was an Iraqi who used the term 'mongoloid'. At least, it was translated that way into English. The article mentionend photographs. Anyone who has photographs of them? And I guess that al-Qaeda used remote controlled explosives. Me, I wouldn't use anyone with even the slightest retardation for something as sensitive as a suicide attack against crowds. (Not the act itself is sensitive, but the cirumstances. An undisciplined person might starting to toy with the trigger and the explosives goes of in a narrow and desolate alley and the bomber might be the only casualty. Etc, etc.) My guess is that al-Qaeda trained them to be couriers. Wear X, go to place Y where person Z will meet you and relieve you of your cargo.
	__________________ "Eh-ya-ya-ya-yahaah - e'yayayayaaaa... nhg'aaaaa... ngh'aaaa... h'yuh... h'yuh... HELP! HELP!... ff-ff-ff-FATHER! FATHER! YOG-SOTHOTH"

7th February 2008, 05:27 AM	#33
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 11,313	Originally Posted by Lucy82 Oh my god. I feel physically sick. I hadn't seen any of the news reports. Just when you think the human race can't sink any lower... At the risk of violating the 'no true Scotsman' rule -- I cannot think of the trash that planned this as human any more. They are missing something that the rest of us -- no matter how nasty -- have inside us.

7th February 2008, 05:44 AM	#34
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by NoZed Avenger At the risk of violating the 'no true Scotsman' rule -- I cannot think of the trash that planned this as human any more. They are missing something that the rest of us -- no matter how nasty -- have inside us. Meh - LordoftheLeftHand thinks it's no worse than waterboarding.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

8th February 2008, 09:00 AM	#35
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	Originally Posted by BPSCG I remember reading, in, oh, I think it was about fifth grade, an explanation of how many atoms there are in every breath you take. There was a rough calculation (I forget how it went) said that with every breath, you take in a million or so atoms of nitrogen that were once breathed by Leonardo da Vinci. Unfortunately, it means I also breathe in a million or so atoms once breathed by Iamme. Pardon me while I go take a bath in Clorox. Richard Dawkins, in a seminar, stated something similar about if you drink a certain (trivial) amount of water you will drink a molecule that has passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell. You can find the speech on youtube but I don't know the exact address (that site is Verboten at my job). It'll take some time to get to, but listening to Dawkins is never a waste of time.
Polaris Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,169	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Roy Moore of Alabama. The world would absolutely benefit by him being run over by any vehicle." - Lowpro