What's up with bottled water?

Andonyx · 13th February 2003, 11:11 PM

On the review that AP linked, they mentioned that Penn and Teller deal with bottled water.

Hey that's cool, I never believed bottled water was necessarily any healthier for you than anything else.

I use a Britta at home because the water out of my tap is warm and thick tasting.

Placebo? Possibly.

I frequently buy a huge bottle at the conveneince store because it's fast, and cold, and I can keep track of how much water I'm drinking.

But what's the deal?

What's P&T's take on bottled water, and while you're here, what's yours?

bjornart · 14th February 2003, 01:12 AM

A few points can be made for bottled water:
-It's safer. Bottled water is usually ordinary tap-water that has been filtered a second time. Which doesn't do anything if the tap-water is up to code in the first place, but may save you a nasty case of the runs if someone at your local water-works screws up.
-It's tastier. Or, in most cases, has less taste. Trace amounts of minerals, chlorine and other substances can easily give a bad taste to your tap-water.

On the other hand it costs something like 1000 times more than your tap-water and you could lose most germs and bad taste with a simple and cheap filter (if you're paranoid you could even boil the water as well). Much cheaper than buying it bottled. And, in Norway at least, the limits on bacterial contents are checked on bottling. After a few weeks in the heat of your local store the bacterial content is likely much higher than your tap-water.

So, unless it's to quench your thirst somewhere public with no decent free water and you've forgotten to bring your own, buying bottled water is stupid. If you really have a problem with water quality, bottle your own.

The Don · 14th February 2003, 01:51 AM

Agree 100% with Bjornart

I've got one of those Brita filters, the only difference I can datact is that becuase it's been in the refrigerator it's colder than tap water and so more paletable

FutileJester · 14th February 2003, 04:30 AM

Ditto don and andonyx. Brita pretty much covers it for me, and that purely for taste reasons.

Pretty audacious when you think about it... 'Hey, I know, let's put water in a bottle and sell it for as much as gasoline!' The marketing success says a lot - about what, I don't know, but it says a lot.

Soapy Sam · 14th February 2003, 05:16 AM

I always find bottled water has a taste I associate with the cheap plastic they make the bottles from. I wonder how much unpolymerised monomer is still in there when the water goes in?

Coming from a high rainfall area with hard rock, lots of natural reservoirs etc, I feel a government (national or local) which can't provide safe, reliable drinking water has failed at the first hurdle.

Mind you, there's a lot of it about.

roger · 14th February 2003, 06:46 AM

I hope I don't take this on a tangent too much, but I'll share that when I was at the grocery last night, every bottle of bottled water was sold out. I live in the DC area, and everyone is paniced about attacks. Okay, that makes some sense. But what shocked me was that all of the Brita stuff was gone too. So are people expecting Brita to safely deal with water contaiminated with biological or chemical poisons? Yikes!

Jon_in_london · 14th February 2003, 06:54 AM

A lot of bottled water is just that. Bottled tap water.

Just have to say something like "bottled at source near the green and pleasant hills of the peak district" when the source is tap water from some factory in Sheffield. Then stick a pic of greene fields with sheepe/mountain streams etc... and some Olde Worlde font writing and hey presto! you got your product.

LW · 14th February 2003, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bjornart
On the other hand it costs something like 1000 times more than your tap-water and you could lose most germs and bad taste with a simple and cheap filter

On the other hand, having a poor filter on tap is worse than having none. About 5 or so years ago the laboratory where my mother is working did a study on tap filters, and they found out that in many cases filtered water contained more bacteria than unfiltered. The reason for this is that a poorly-designed filter doesn't dry well and the moisture is an ideal breeding place for germs.

Andonyx · 14th February 2003, 08:58 AM

Thanks all, I don't feel like a complete twit then.

I'll stick with my britta, and probably buy the bottled if I'm out on a hot day anyway.

c0rbin · 14th February 2003, 11:02 AM

I live in Houstain TX and I will be damned if I am going to drink the water without a little extra filtering.

We installed one on our house at the main so all of our taps get the filter action.

Segnosaur · 14th February 2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Don
I've got one of those Brita filters

Something to keep in mind.... The filter used in those Brita filters contain carbon, and as such can actually serve as a breeding ground for bacteria if you aren't careful. Replace the filter often, and never leave it out on the counter.

Segnosaur · 14th February 2003, 01:29 PM

Here's something people should keep in mind:

- Tap water, tested daily by the government for contamination
- Bottled water... Considered a 'food', and as such is tested only monthly/yearly

Charles Livingston · 14th February 2003, 01:38 PM

My problem with tap water, filtered water (such as brita), and bottled tap water that is filtered a second time is taste. For some reason, only spring water has a nuetral taste for me and of course not all of those. I think that evian (of course the most expensive), dannon, and a couple other spring waters have the most nuetral taste. However, I am not really sure if spring water isnt really the same as the 'purified' tap water stuff (for example what jon-in-london said above), but i cant stand the taste of anything but spring water.

Segnosaur · 14th February 2003, 01:41 PM

Here's a question for everyone...

On yesterday's Daily Show, Jon Stewart mentioned the U.S. was going to start mentioning that french bottled water used Bovine blood as a clarifying agent.

Any idea what he was referring to?

Oso · 14th February 2003, 01:46 PM

A few years back Houston considered bottling and selling their tap water, seriously. I don't remember what the name was going to be. 'Ship Channel' water?

I travel a lot and I think Houston tap water tastes fine. You oughta try Midland's. Other than overseas it's the only place I'll buy water (but even then, only after suffering for a couple of days).

Of course most of the water I drink comes in the form of ice.

Aoidoi · 15th February 2003, 08:55 AM

I've long been amused that Coke is cheaper than water. The sum of the parts worth less than one part? Odd, though given the way a (relatively) free market works not particularly unexpected.

The only time I buy bottled water is if I need to take a disposable container of water with me somewhere, and then I buy whatever is the cheapest water they've got and console myself by saying I'm buying the plastic bottle.

I honestly can't taste the difference between by tap water and bottled water, and I seem to recall hearing a study that in double blind studies other people can't either (don't have a cite, anybody hear of this?).

btw, anybody see P&T last night? Randi was on! He got to mock some idiotic doomsayers!

Soapy Sam · 15th February 2003, 09:25 AM

I remember Houston tap water as perfectly drinkable, but that's 20 years ago. It's the residual taste of the chlorinating agent in tap water which I find offensive in many parts of the UK these days. This is not of course true in Nairobi or some other non Western capitals.
Honest Jon, I'm not trying to offend, but the only tap water in the world that is guaranteed to make me ill, is London's. (I admit it may be psychosomatic).

Fortunately there is enough good ale to be found in London that one can use water purely for washing.
I have to use filtered or bottled in London for tea, though I find tap water is OK for instant coffee. I'm sure the problem in London is purely the hardness (it mostly comes off Chalk). Certainly kettle elements acquire more CaCO3 scale there in a month than one in Glasgow acquires in 20 years. (This is fact, not exaggeration).

They say soft water is bad for the heart though. (Ulp!)

dsm · 15th February 2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Segnosaur
Here's a question for everyone...

On yesterday's Daily Show, Jon Stewart mentioned the U.S. was going to start mentioning that french bottled water used Bovine blood as a clarifying agent.

Any idea what he was referring to?

Yeah, that was mentioned on (I think) CNN. I think the actual statement was that the Dennis Hastert (House Speaker) wanted to retaliate against the French by mentioning that the French use Bovine blood in French wine as a clarifying agent.

The French vintner (sp?) who was interviewed diplomatically explained that clarifying agents are used in wine to attract impurities and then settle to the bottom of the vats where they can be removed. The vintner also explained that Bovine blood had not been used in a number of years (if it ever had been -- I forget the exact statement) due to Mad Cow Disease (Hastert's reason for bringing this up). There are many other clarifying agents (like eggs) that are used.

So, if you can't get the countries of the world on your side for a war through negotiation, then hit them in the wallet by disparaging their business.

Richard G · 15th February 2003, 01:26 PM

Who would think, sane people paying more for water than a gallon of gasoline. Makes no sense to me.

Tez · 15th February 2003, 04:12 PM

I did a double blind test of four memebers of a family who insisted they could tell the difference between the tap water and the (filtered by some $500 device) filtered tap water.

The only tricky thing was to ensure a constant temperature over all 20 cups of water. They went through and noted which they thought it was. Noone scored better than chance.

I guess its kind of a fun thing for skeptics to test - doesnt get anyone too upset...

sorgoth · 15th February 2003, 04:52 PM

I find my tap water tastes just fine. I just like it cold, so I just put it in a container. Tastes the same as bottled, to me.

Anyway, anyone who would pay THAT MUCH for bottled water (on a daily basis)must be insane. Screw the high price of gasoline...let's worry about water!

Jon_in_london · 16th February 2003, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
.
Honest Jon, I'm not trying to offend, but the only tap water in the world that is guaranteed to make me ill, is London's.

The water in london should be declared a crime against humanity- a weapon of mass disgustion!!

Every week I wash out my kettle to get rid of the limescale, I hates it I does! Ale is good though- tried brushing my teeth with it in the morning but got funny looks at work. Dunno why?

Soapy Sam · 16th February 2003, 03:11 PM

Bet you wre brushing five times a day , too. Friend of mine in Slough uses a filter jug for drinking water. I suggested she fill the kettle with it to see if it made any difference, but I don't think she tried. Boiling water is easily the fastest wau to get the hardness out of it of course, which is why the kettle is so good at it. I found boiling it dry cleaned it beautifully, but I got smacked.

Torlack · 16th February 2003, 04:17 PM

I haven't seen it mentioned. But P&T might be targeting claims such as the ones Penta (?) water makes about their products.

16th February 2003, 05:49 PM

Don't be too hard on hard water - it's good for you. Studies have shown lower rates of cardiac disease among populations consuming hard water compared to those drinking soft water. It's related to calcium content. The town I live in has hard water and people think it's a bad thing, so scam artists selling water filters, special water, living water and so on do quite well, even though we have some of the cleanest, nicest tasting tap water for a city in the world. What the scam artists don't tell you about is the health risks of drinking soft or filtered water. As people have already mentioned in this thread, water filters, including Brita, can be a breeding area for bacteria. In fact, it's been suggested this kind of bacterial growth could make the water taste nice. You do have to replace your filter often or treat it, and most people forget.

Bottling your own tap water and putting it in the fridge usually deals with most taste problems in treated tap water without boiling or filtering it first.

Soapy Sam · 19th February 2003, 07:55 AM

Hard for people, soft for machines seems to be the health line these days. Taste is a different matter. I remember watching in horror as some lads from London put chlorinating tablets in water straight from a highland stream, because "It doesn't taste right".
They had grown up drinking reprocessed sewage and thought water was supposed to taste like a public swimming pool.

alfaniner · 19th February 2003, 10:19 AM

The only bottled water I can justify buying is Propel. A little sweetness, a little nutrition, a little flavor, no carbonation, and all for 20 calories a bottle.

19th February 2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alfaniner
The only bottled water I can justify buying is Propel. A little sweetness, a little nutrition, a little flavor, no carbonation, and all for 20 calories a bottle.

Propel is good stuff, especially the lemon. Too bad it's normally 1.69 at the corner store.

pupdog · 22nd February 2003, 08:47 AM

Hey, you're all forgetting that you can buy bottled water that contains great stuff like vitamin O (well, now I guess they just sell it as "oxygenated water"). And don't forget (because the water doesn't) that any water from a bottle must have homeopathic powers!

I witnessed how capitalism was making great strides in China a few years ago. It was very hot, and many people took a bottle of water along wherever they went. I saw enterprising kids collect discarded bottles, fill them up at the nearest road ditch, and sell them.

DrMatt · 22nd February 2003, 10:17 AM

Here in Ann Arbor, a liter of tap water costs about US$ 0.0005
(or about 5 gallons a penny, check my arithmetic). A liter of water, pumped from the acquifer at the north end of the state, and bottled by a subsidiary of Perrier, costs about $1, or 2000 times more. That seems to be the most important difference which I have observed.
However, our tap water is heavily regulated. Tap water in Washington, DC is notoriously funny-tasting, in part because the District slips through a lot of regulatory cracks. However, I'm convinced that DC restaurants just serve tap water with ice, trusting the ice to kill the taste.

kittynh · 23rd February 2003, 11:58 AM

I found some bottled waters taste like, well plastic. I just put water from my own well in the fridge in a glass jug - yummy!
If I am getting bottled water I like Evian, as it doesn't have the plastic bottle taste. But it's the bottle not the water. They also are nice to refill!
When I was living in Belgium everyone would fill a cart with bottled water (it was heavily subsidized, so dirt cheap). I finally got sick of backpacking that stuff home from the store and called a physician friend and asked what was wrong with the water. Nothing he replied, he even checked with the government. People just liked cheap bottled water. So, I drank the water!!!

I remember being in Paris and going no way was I paying 5euros for a bottle of water. I noticed a little water fountain, that was about 10 inches off the ground. It was for dogs! So I refilled everyones water bottle! I got some strange looks, but if it was good enough for the French dogs it was good enough for me (hey, they love their dogs, it very well could have been Evian)

13th February 2003, 11:11 PM	#1
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	What's up with bottled water? On the review that AP linked, they mentioned that Penn and Teller deal with bottled water. Hey that's cool, I never believed bottled water was necessarily any healthier for you than anything else. I use a Britta at home because the water out of my tap is warm and thick tasting. Placebo? Possibly. I frequently buy a huge bottle at the conveneince store because it's fast, and cold, and I can keep track of how much water I'm drinking. But what's the deal? What's P&T's take on bottled water, and while you're here, what's yours?
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	__________________ Andonyx www.andonyx.com Shy Gypsy Slyly Shyly Tryst By My Crypt.

14th February 2003, 01:12 AM	#2
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	A few points can be made for bottled water: -It's safer. Bottled water is usually ordinary tap-water that has been filtered a second time. Which doesn't do anything if the tap-water is up to code in the first place, but may save you a nasty case of the runs if someone at your local water-works screws up. -It's tastier. Or, in most cases, has less taste. Trace amounts of minerals, chlorine and other substances can easily give a bad taste to your tap-water. On the other hand it costs something like 1000 times more than your tap-water and you could lose most germs and bad taste with a simple and cheap filter (if you're paranoid you could even boil the water as well). Much cheaper than buying it bottled. And, in Norway at least, the limits on bacterial contents are checked on bottling. After a few weeks in the heat of your local store the bacterial content is likely much higher than your tap-water. So, unless it's to quench your thirst somewhere public with no decent free water and you've forgotten to bring your own, buying bottled water is stupid. If you really have a problem with water quality, bottle your own.
bjornart Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,395	__________________ Well, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU LIKE TO BELIEVE, GODDAMMIT! I DEAL IN THE FACTS! -Cecil Adams

14th February 2003, 04:30 AM	#4
FutileJester Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 274	Ditto don and andonyx. Brita pretty much covers it for me, and that purely for taste reasons. Pretty audacious when you think about it... 'Hey, I know, let's put water in a bottle and sell it for as much as gasoline!' The marketing success says a lot - about what, I don't know, but it says a lot.
	__________________ Many an ancient lord's last words had been, "You can't kill me because I've got magic aaargh." --Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times

14th February 2003, 05:16 AM	#5
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	I always find bottled water has a taste I associate with the cheap plastic they make the bottles from. I wonder how much unpolymerised monomer is still in there when the water goes in? Coming from a high rainfall area with hard rock, lots of natural reservoirs etc, I feel a government (national or local) which can't provide safe, reliable drinking water has failed at the first hurdle. Mind you, there's a lot of it about.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

14th February 2003, 06:54 AM	#7
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	A lot of bottled water is just that. Bottled tap water. Just have to say something like "bottled at source near the green and pleasant hills of the peak district" when the source is tap water from some factory in Sheffield. Then stick a pic of greene fields with sheepe/mountain streams etc... and some Olde Worlde font writing and hey presto! you got your product.
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

14th February 2003, 01:51 AM	#3
The Don Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cymru Posts: 8,235	Agree 100% with Bjornart I've got one of those Brita filters, the only difference I can datact is that becuase it's been in the refrigerator it's colder than tap water and so more paletable

14th February 2003, 06:46 AM	#6
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	I hope I don't take this on a tangent too much, but I'll share that when I was at the grocery last night, every bottle of bottled water was sold out. I live in the DC area, and everyone is paniced about attacks. Okay, that makes some sense. But what shocked me was that all of the Brita stuff was gone too. So are people expecting Brita to safely deal with water contaiminated with biological or chemical poisons? Yikes!

14th February 2003, 08:56 AM	#8
LW Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 60°N 25°E Posts: 2,800	Quote: Originally posted by bjornart On the other hand it costs something like 1000 times more than your tap-water and you could lose most germs and bad taste with a simple and cheap filter On the other hand, having a poor filter on tap is worse than having none. About 5 or so years ago the laboratory where my mother is working did a study on tap filters, and they found out that in many cases filtered water contained more bacteria than unfiltered. The reason for this is that a poorly-designed filter doesn't dry well and the moisture is an ideal breeding place for germs.

14th February 2003, 08:58 AM	#9
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	Thanks all, I don't feel like a complete twit then. I'll stick with my britta, and probably buy the bottled if I'm out on a hot day anyway.
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	__________________ Andonyx www.andonyx.com Shy Gypsy Slyly Shyly Tryst By My Crypt.

14th February 2003, 11:02 AM	#10
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	I live in Houstain TX and I will be damned if I am going to drink the water without a little extra filtering. We installed one on our house at the main so all of our taps get the filter action.
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	__________________ By convention there is color, By convention sweetness, By convention bitterness, But in reality there are atoms and space. --Democritus (c. 400 BCE)

14th February 2003, 01:27 PM	#11
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,066	Quote: Originally posted by The Don I've got one of those Brita filters Something to keep in mind.... The filter used in those Brita filters contain carbon, and as such can actually serve as a breeding ground for bacteria if you aren't careful. Replace the filter often, and never leave it out on the counter.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

14th February 2003, 01:29 PM	#12
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,066	Here's something people should keep in mind: - Tap water, tested daily by the government for contamination - Bottled water... Considered a 'food', and as such is tested only monthly/yearly
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

14th February 2003, 01:38 PM	#13
Charles Livingston Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 425	My problem with tap water, filtered water (such as brita), and bottled tap water that is filtered a second time is taste. For some reason, only spring water has a nuetral taste for me and of course not all of those. I think that evian (of course the most expensive), dannon, and a couple other spring waters have the most nuetral taste. However, I am not really sure if spring water isnt really the same as the 'purified' tap water stuff (for example what jon-in-london said above), but i cant stand the taste of anything but spring water.

14th February 2003, 01:41 PM	#14
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,066	Here's a question for everyone... On yesterday's Daily Show, Jon Stewart mentioned the U.S. was going to start mentioning that french bottled water used Bovine blood as a clarifying agent. Any idea what he was referring to?
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

14th February 2003, 01:46 PM	#15
Oso Thinker Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 170	A few years back Houston considered bottling and selling their tap water, seriously. I don't remember what the name was going to be. 'Ship Channel' water? I travel a lot and I think Houston tap water tastes fine. You oughta try Midland's. Other than overseas it's the only place I'll buy water (but even then, only after suffering for a couple of days). Of course most of the water I drink comes in the form of ice.
Oso Thinker Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 170

15th February 2003, 08:55 AM	#16
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,417	I've long been amused that Coke is cheaper than water. The sum of the parts worth less than one part? Odd, though given the way a (relatively) free market works not particularly unexpected. The only time I buy bottled water is if I need to take a disposable container of water with me somewhere, and then I buy whatever is the cheapest water they've got and console myself by saying I'm buying the plastic bottle. I honestly can't taste the difference between by tap water and bottled water, and I seem to recall hearing a study that in double blind studies other people can't either (don't have a cite, anybody hear of this?). btw, anybody see P&T last night? Randi was on! He got to mock some idiotic doomsayers!
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,417	__________________ "The priests used to say that faith can move mountains, and nobody believed them. Today the scientists say that they can level mountains, and nobody doubts them." - Joseph Campbell We cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. —Edward R. Murrow

15th February 2003, 09:25 AM	#17
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	I remember Houston tap water as perfectly drinkable, but that's 20 years ago. It's the residual taste of the chlorinating agent in tap water which I find offensive in many parts of the UK these days. This is not of course true in Nairobi or some other non Western capitals. Honest Jon, I'm not trying to offend, but the only tap water in the world that is guaranteed to make me ill, is London's. (I admit it may be psychosomatic). Fortunately there is enough good ale to be found in London that one can use water purely for washing. I have to use filtered or bottled in London for tea, though I find tap water is OK for instant coffee. I'm sure the problem in London is purely the hardness (it mostly comes off Chalk). Certainly kettle elements acquire more CaCO3 scale there in a month than one in Glasgow acquires in 20 years. (This is fact, not exaggeration). They say soft water is bad for the heart though. (Ulp!)
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

15th February 2003, 12:23 PM	#18
dsm Muse Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 970	Quote: Originally posted by Segnosaur Here's a question for everyone... On yesterday's Daily Show, Jon Stewart mentioned the U.S. was going to start mentioning that french bottled water used Bovine blood as a clarifying agent. Any idea what he was referring to? Yeah, that was mentioned on (I think) CNN. I think the actual statement was that the Dennis Hastert (House Speaker) wanted to retaliate against the French by mentioning that the French use Bovine blood in French wine as a clarifying agent. The French vintner (sp?) who was interviewed diplomatically explained that clarifying agents are used in wine to attract impurities and then settle to the bottom of the vats where they can be removed. The vintner also explained that Bovine blood had not been used in a number of years (if it ever had been -- I forget the exact statement) due to Mad Cow Disease (Hastert's reason for bringing this up). There are many other clarifying agents (like eggs) that are used. So, if you can't get the countries of the world on your side for a war through negotiation, then hit them in the wallet by disparaging their business.
	__________________ DSM

15th February 2003, 01:26 PM	#19
Richard G Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 940	Who would think, sane people paying more for water than a gallon of gasoline. Makes no sense to me.
Richard G Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 940

15th February 2003, 04:12 PM	#20
Tez Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: London Posts: 1,104	I did a double blind test of four memebers of a family who insisted they could tell the difference between the tap water and the (filtered by some $500 device) filtered tap water. The only tricky thing was to ensure a constant temperature over all 20 cups of water. They went through and noted which they thought it was. Noone scored better than chance. I guess its kind of a fun thing for skeptics to test - doesnt get anyone too upset...
	__________________ "There's two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.” --Enrico Fermi www.physicsnerd.com

15th February 2003, 04:52 PM	#21
sorgoth Muse Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 977	I find my tap water tastes just fine. I just like it cold, so I just put it in a container. Tastes the same as bottled, to me. Anyway, anyone who would pay THAT MUCH for bottled water (on a daily basis)must be insane. Screw the high price of gasoline...let's worry about water!
sorgoth Muse Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 977

16th February 2003, 01:11 PM	#22
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	Quote: Originally posted by Soapy Sam . Honest Jon, I'm not trying to offend, but the only tap water in the world that is guaranteed to make me ill, is London's. The water in london should be declared a crime against humanity- a weapon of mass disgustion!! Every week I wash out my kettle to get rid of the limescale, I hates it I does! Ale is good though- tried brushing my teeth with it in the morning but got funny looks at work. Dunno why?
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

16th February 2003, 03:11 PM	#23
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Bet you wre brushing five times a day , too. Friend of mine in Slough uses a filter jug for drinking water. I suggested she fill the kettle with it to see if it made any difference, but I don't think she tried. Boiling water is easily the fastest wau to get the hardness out of it of course, which is why the kettle is so good at it. I found boiling it dry cleaned it beautifully, but I got smacked.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

16th February 2003, 04:17 PM	#24
Torlack Thinker Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 130	I haven't seen it mentioned. But P&T might be targeting claims such as the ones Penta (?) water makes about their products.
Torlack Thinker Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 130

16th February 2003, 05:49 PM	#25
spoonhandler Guest Posts: n/a	Don't be too hard on hard water - it's good for you. Studies have shown lower rates of cardiac disease among populations consuming hard water compared to those drinking soft water. It's related to calcium content. The town I live in has hard water and people think it's a bad thing, so scam artists selling water filters, special water, living water and so on do quite well, even though we have some of the cleanest, nicest tasting tap water for a city in the world. What the scam artists don't tell you about is the health risks of drinking soft or filtered water. As people have already mentioned in this thread, water filters, including Brita, can be a breeding area for bacteria. In fact, it's been suggested this kind of bacterial growth could make the water taste nice. You do have to replace your filter often or treat it, and most people forget. Bottling your own tap water and putting it in the fridge usually deals with most taste problems in treated tap water without boiling or filtering it first.
spoonhandler Guest Posts: n/a

19th February 2003, 07:55 AM	#26
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Hard for people, soft for machines seems to be the health line these days. Taste is a different matter. I remember watching in horror as some lads from London put chlorinating tablets in water straight from a highland stream, because "It doesn't taste right". They had grown up drinking reprocessed sewage and thought water was supposed to taste like a public swimming pool.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

19th February 2003, 10:19 AM	#27
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 11,382	The only bottled water I can justify buying is Propel. A little sweetness, a little nutrition, a little flavor, no carbonation, and all for 20 calories a bottle.

19th February 2003, 12:12 PM	#28
SpaceLord Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by alfaniner The only bottled water I can justify buying is Propel. A little sweetness, a little nutrition, a little flavor, no carbonation, and all for 20 calories a bottle. Propel is good stuff, especially the lemon. Too bad it's normally 1.69 at the corner store.
SpaceLord Guest Posts: n/a

22nd February 2003, 08:47 AM	#29
pupdog Muse Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 627	Hey, you're all forgetting that you can buy bottled water that contains great stuff like vitamin O (well, now I guess they just sell it as "oxygenated water"). And don't forget (because the water doesn't) that any water from a bottle must have homeopathic powers! I witnessed how capitalism was making great strides in China a few years ago. It was very hot, and many people took a bottle of water along wherever they went. I saw enterprising kids collect discarded bottles, fill them up at the nearest road ditch, and sell them.
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22nd February 2003, 10:17 AM	#30
DrMatt Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,422	Here in Ann Arbor, a liter of tap water costs about US$ 0.0005 (or about 5 gallons a penny, check my arithmetic). A liter of water, pumped from the acquifer at the north end of the state, and bottled by a subsidiary of Perrier, costs about $1, or 2000 times more. That seems to be the most important difference which I have observed. However, our tap water is heavily regulated. Tap water in Washington, DC is notoriously funny-tasting, in part because the District slips through a lot of regulatory cracks. However, I'm convinced that DC restaurants just serve tap water with ice, trusting the ice to kill the taste.
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23rd February 2003, 11:58 AM	#31
kittynh The Hupsu Detective auctioneer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: If I told the aliens could find me, and you know they read this forum Posts: 22,707	bottled water I found some bottled waters taste like, well plastic. I just put water from my own well in the fridge in a glass jug - yummy! If I am getting bottled water I like Evian, as it doesn't have the plastic bottle taste. But it's the bottle not the water. They also are nice to refill! When I was living in Belgium everyone would fill a cart with bottled water (it was heavily subsidized, so dirt cheap). I finally got sick of backpacking that stuff home from the store and called a physician friend and asked what was wrong with the water. Nothing he replied, he even checked with the government. People just liked cheap bottled water. So, I drank the water!!! I remember being in Paris and going no way was I paying 5euros for a bottle of water. I noticed a little water fountain, that was about 10 inches off the ground. It was for dogs! So I refilled everyones water bottle! I got some strange looks, but if it was good enough for the French dogs it was good enough for me (hey, they love their dogs, it very well could have been Evian)
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