Dylan Avery Gets Schooled By The BBC (Video) - Page 13

dudalb · 10th February 2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

I watch MSNBC and see Keith Olberman do a much better job of holding the administration accountable for their actions, including the Patriot Act, than does Jones.

Olberman is just not the wild eyed nutbar that Jones is so he is less well known

You are wrong about one thing: Olberman is MUCH better known then Alex Jones. Jones is not much talked about outside the INternet,whereas I think most people know who Olbermann is.

Unsecured Coins · 10th February 2008, 08:39 PM

Olberman needs to call up Dan Patrick and get both of their happy asses back on ESPN.

Drudgewire · 11th February 2008, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Unsecured Coins

Olberman needs to call up Dan Patrick and get both of their happy asses back on ESPN.

Oh hell yes! As much as I can't stand Keith's politics he and Patrick were a billion times less annoying than Mike Tirico.

Especially when they add Michele Tafoya which the UN should investigate as a possible torture technique.

dudalb · 11th February 2008, 10:09 AM

I would like to see Olbermann back on ESPN,but he has kind of ruled that out with his very strident political advocacy.

nicepants · 11th February 2008, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Edx

Bottom line is a truly objectve fair and unbalanced show would not have conducted itself the way this show did, and it would have included information critcal to understanding the topics and the arguments.

Please provide a list of claims that they got wrong, not a list of things you think they should have done differently.

Edx · 11th February 2008, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by nicepants

Please provide a list of claims that they got wrong, not a list of things you think they should have done differently.

Even though Ive mentioned several things, it was never my intention to say its main conclusions were wrong.

jaydeehess · 11th February 2008, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Edx

Even though Ive mentioned several things, it was never my intention to say its main conclusions were wrong.

Which brings us back to the Op in which it is quite apparent that Dylan either knew that the statement was a similie and deliberatly chose to use it in the literal sense, or he had only read a partial statement and assumed it to be intended literally , or he is completely unaware of the use of similie and metaphor in English conversation.

Are there any other choices?

jaydeehess · 11th February 2008, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by nicepants

Please provide a list of claims that they got wrong, not a list of things you think they should have done differently.

I noticed one thing incorrect in the BBC show. they state that the fires in WTC 7 were fed by the deisel fuel. That is a theory that both FEMA and NIST say has a low probability of having occured.

We have LC, in which there are numerous glaring errors, ommissions and exaggerations and, AFAIK, "Conspiracy Files" in which there is but one. (unless one buys EDx's claim of exaggeration concerning Avery's background and beliefs)

Edx · 12th February 2008, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Which brings us back to the Op in which it is quite apparent that Dylan either knew that the statement was a similie and deliberatly chose to use it in the literal sense, or he had only read a partial statement and assumed it to be intended literally , or he is completely unaware of the use of similie and metaphor in English conversation.

Are there any other choices?

Back at the start of the thread I suggested that maybe he did know what a similie was, but that basically because he wasnt thinking too rationally about the "evidence" he had found, he was quick to use Wallys quotes without thinking. When questioned by Guy Smith his expression might show that he realised what he was telling him was possible, but he didnt want to admit it. Like I said a little while ago, that might well be giving him too much credit.

vinniem · 19th January 2010, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Edx

I wouldnt call it fair and balenced at all! A few points here: The producer says Dylan was a "drop out", but on Jones' show claims in the UK a "drop out" means someone who never went to Univercity. I live in the UK, Im nearly 24, this isnt true and he knows it. He films all the debukers, which outnumbered them off the top of my head about 9 to 3, in nice locations with good camera shots while he went the opposite for the conspiracy people. He even gets Frank Spotnitz a producer of the X-Files on for a long time talking about his opinion on conspiracy theorists, and Im thinking is this really relevant, isnt there something else you could be talking about, and how is this balenced and fair? Sorry, but I actually agree with Alex. It was a hit piece. The history channels show was much better, but unfortunately that used Popukar Mechanics. I have a problem with them as well, but not in quite the same way and they werent nearly as bad as Conspiracy Files.

Having recently watched this BBC conspiracy files documentary, I must say that I completely agree with you about it, Edx.

DavidJames · 19th January 2010, 08:23 PM

I have to congratulate you vinniem, in just 7 days, you are one of the top posters in this forum. Most of the posts, not to my surprise, are of the JAQing off variety.

You have no relevant knowledge, no relevant education, and no relevant experience, yet most everything you read from people with relevant knowledge, education, and experience, you ignore or hand wave away. You are just another ignorant plant in the JREF garden of 9/11 CTists.

Edx · 19th January 2010, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Having recently watched this BBC conspiracy files documentary, I must say that I completely agree with you about it, Edx.

Well, I still don't think it was balanced and I still don't think they did a good job of going into enough detail or debunking enough claims. I still sort of don't really like it, but its still 100% better than anything truthers have come out with. I hate to even compare it at all.

No, it wasn't fair to try and make truthers look more crazy or less credible by using bad lighting and locations because they do a damn good job of making themselves look bad all on their own.

Yes, the producer was wrong about the drop out comment.

Yes, it obviously wasnt a unbiased look at 911 conspiracy theories.It was obviously trying to debunk it.

So apart from being really a debunking conspiracy show rather than how they tried to present it and apart from pointlessly trying to make truthers look stupider than they already are rather than just letting their loonacy show naturally, most of my comments are really just nit picks and the rest are just based on ignorance. I say ignorance because I remember talking about Jones' critique of how they presented pancake theory and I thought he was right and that it had been disproved and how the show got it wrong, but at the time I didnt realise Jones was just an ignorant moron and didn't understand what he was talking about.

I still dont really like the show's format since they had very little time and by the end they kind of assumed everyone agreed by that point and then talked about the psycology of the conspiracy theorists. I seem to remember the WTC7 show was a lot better, maybe because they were able to deal more with one subject. But at any rate I could have done a much better job getting to the heart of some of their claims IMO.

Now I may be critical of this show but its like Oscar material compared with any truther film. I mean Jesse Venturas new show might even be worse than Alex Jones and thats really saying something.

EDIT: Oh and another thing, I see I mentioned Popular Mechanics. I was still under the false impression Popular Mechanics was as truthers claimed they were. Now I would say still not to use them, purely so truthers cant dismiss them straight away just because they are from Popular Mechanics.

At this point I remember I was still listening to Alex Jones every day believe it or not.

vinniem · 20th January 2010, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by Edx

See my responce to Jonny - strawman - clueless. But what I said in my long post, if you'll rememeber was:

"They dont quote the fact that the story was originally reported in the Haaretz and then reported further in The Washington Post that some were warned via instant messenger.."

Odigo employees really did receive warnings that was reported to the FBI, there was truth there, they made out it was all a myth.

Do you still believe Odigo employees received a warning?

Rolfe · 20th January 2010, 04:29 AM

He's right about The Conspiracy Files though. It's always a hit piece. Whether the "conspiracy" is a load of mince from start to finish, or whether there might actually be some valid points in there and some valid questions to ask, or even if the balance of probabilities actually favours the conspiracy proponents, it will be filmed in such a way that the last segment can show how the establishment view is obviously right all along.

Rolfe.

vinniem · 20th January 2010, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfe

He's right about The Conspiracy Files though. It's always a hit piece. Whether the "conspiracy" is a load of mince from start to finish, or whether there might actually be some valid points in there and some valid questions to ask, or even if the balance of probabilities actually favours the conspiracy proponents, it will be filmed in such a way that the last segment can show how the establishment view is obviously right all along.

Rolfe.

What really just astounded my was the way they presented Davin Coburn as an expert. This is a guy who looks straight out of college and his only expertise is that his magazine once wrote a hit piece.

Listen to Davin Coburn on Charles Goyette's radio show. Goyette isn't even a truther but he destroys Davin. One of the funniest things you will ever hear.

Sword_Of_Truth · 20th January 2010, 04:50 AM

You're bumping a lot of really old threads for someone who is new here, Vinnie.

vinniem · 20th January 2010, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth

You're bumping a lot of really old threads for someone who is new here, Vinnie.

Eh? I was directed to this thread by Edx himself (indirectly) because he was telling me about how he used to be a truther. The other thread I bumped I found by searching for Asteneh-Asl. I have bumped 2 threads.

Would you instead prefer me to just start new threads on subjects that interest me rather than bumping current ones????

Edx · 20th January 2010, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Do you still believe Odigo employees received a warning?

Nope. That's wrong in every single way possible. Off the top of my head... It wasnt specific, it was only sent to a few employees, those employees were in another country and lastly Odigo didnt even have any offices at the WTC

I need to go back to see what I was trying to argue!

Walter Ego · 20th January 2010, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by vinniem

Eh? I was directed to this thread by Edx himself (indirectly) because he was telling me about how he used to be a truther. The other thread I bumped I found by searching for Asteneh-Asl. I have bumped 2 threads.

Would you instead prefer me to just start new threads on subjects that interest me rather than bumping current ones????

Edx earned himself a place on my ignore list (where he still resides) for this thread, and, while I appreciate you bumping a two-year old video I made, yes, it would be better if you didn't haul stuff like this back to the top.

Edx · 20th January 2010, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Edx earned himself a place on my ignore list (where he still resides) .

Sheesh Walter, give me a break it was 2 years ago!

carlitos · 20th January 2010, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Edx

Sheesh Walter, give me a break it was 2 years ago!

Quoted for Walger Ego. He seems like a reasonable guy.

Cuddles · 22nd January 2010, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

it would be better if you didn't haul stuff like this back to the top.

Because obviously all the other threads in the section are so much more worthwhile.

Walter Ego · 22nd January 2010, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Because obviously all the other threads in the section are so much more worthwhile.

Hey, if my little video (the first one I made about 9/11 Truth) gets a few more hits I'm happy and if Edx get embarrassed by his (former?) obtuseness I'm happy, but I usually don't get my jollies by flogging dead horses.

To each his own, however.

10th February 2008, 08:39 PM	#482
Unsecured Coins Hoku-maniac Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: in your macaronis. warming my feets Posts: 5,741	Olberman needs to call up Dan Patrick and get both of their happy asses back on ESPN.
	__________________ *http://kcbastards.com/* "If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski "I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele "Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again

11th February 2008, 07:08 AM	#483
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,434	Originally Posted by Unsecured Coins Olberman needs to call up Dan Patrick and get both of their happy asses back on ESPN. Oh hell yes! As much as I can't stand Keith's politics he and Patrick were a billion times less annoying than Mike Tirico. Especially when they add Michele Tafoya which the UN should investigate as a possible torture technique.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

11th February 2008, 10:43 AM	#485
nicepants Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,720	Originally Posted by Edx Bottom line is a truly objectve fair and unbalanced show would not have conducted itself the way this show did, and it would have included information critcal to understanding the topics and the arguments. Please provide a list of claims that they got wrong, not a list of things you think they should have done differently.
	__________________ Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein

11th February 2008, 11:15 AM	#486
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	Originally Posted by nicepants Please provide a list of claims that they got wrong, not a list of things you think they should have done differently. Even though Ive mentioned several things, it was never my intention to say its main conclusions were wrong.
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	Last edited by Edx; 11th February 2008 at 11:15 AM.

11th February 2008, 03:21 PM	#488
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,826	Originally Posted by nicepants Please provide a list of claims that they got wrong, not a list of things you think they should have done differently. I noticed one thing incorrect in the BBC show. they state that the fires in WTC 7 were fed by the deisel fuel. That is a theory that both FEMA and NIST say has a low probability of having occured. We have LC, in which there are numerous glaring errors, ommissions and exaggerations and, AFAIK, "Conspiracy Files" in which there is but one. (unless one buys EDx's claim of exaggeration concerning Avery's background and beliefs)
	Last edited by jaydeehess; 11th February 2008 at 03:22 PM.

10th February 2008, 05:07 PM	#481
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	Originally Posted by jaydeehess I watch MSNBC and see Keith Olberman do a much better job of holding the administration accountable for their actions, including the Patriot Act, than does Jones. Olberman is just not the wild eyed nutbar that Jones is so he is less well known You are wrong about one thing: Olberman is MUCH better known then Alex Jones. Jones is not much talked about outside the INternet,whereas I think most people know who Olbermann is.

11th February 2008, 10:09 AM	#484
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	I would like to see Olbermann back on ESPN,but he has kind of ruled that out with his very strident political advocacy.

11th February 2008, 03:16 PM	#487
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,826	Originally Posted by Edx Even though Ive mentioned several things, it was never my intention to say its main conclusions were wrong. Which brings us back to the Op in which it is quite apparent that Dylan either knew that the statement was a similie and deliberatly chose to use it in the literal sense, or he had only read a partial statement and assumed it to be intended literally , or he is completely unaware of the use of similie and metaphor in English conversation. Are there any other choices?

12th February 2008, 03:49 AM	#489
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	Originally Posted by jaydeehess Which brings us back to the Op in which it is quite apparent that Dylan either knew that the statement was a similie and deliberatly chose to use it in the literal sense, or he had only read a partial statement and assumed it to be intended literally , or he is completely unaware of the use of similie and metaphor in English conversation. Are there any other choices? Back at the start of the thread I suggested that maybe he did know what a similie was, but that basically because he wasnt thinking too rationally about the "evidence" he had found, he was quick to use Wallys quotes without thinking. When questioned by Guy Smith his expression might show that he realised what he was telling him was possible, but he didnt want to admit it. Like I said a little while ago, that might well be giving him too much credit.
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	Last edited by Edx; 12th February 2008 at 03:52 AM.

19th January 2010, 08:04 PM	#490
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308	Originally Posted by Edx I wouldnt call it fair and balenced at all! A few points here: The producer says Dylan was a "drop out", but on Jones' show claims in the UK a "drop out" means someone who never went to Univercity. I live in the UK, Im nearly 24, this isnt true and he knows it. He films all the debukers, which outnumbered them off the top of my head about 9 to 3, in nice locations with good camera shots while he went the opposite for the conspiracy people. He even gets Frank Spotnitz a producer of the X-Files on for a long time talking about his opinion on conspiracy theorists, and Im thinking is this really relevant, isnt there something else you could be talking about, and how is this balenced and fair? Sorry, but I actually agree with Alex. It was a hit piece. The history channels show was much better, but unfortunately that used Popukar Mechanics. I have a problem with them as well, but not in quite the same way and they werent nearly as bad as Conspiracy Files. Having recently watched this BBC conspiracy files documentary, I must say that I completely agree with you about it, Edx.
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308

19th January 2010, 08:23 PM	#491
DavidJames Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Front Range, CO Posts: 7,088	I have to congratulate you vinniem, in just 7 days, you are one of the top posters in this forum. Most of the posts, not to my surprise, are of the JAQing off variety. You have no relevant knowledge, no relevant education, and no relevant experience, yet most everything you read from people with relevant knowledge, education, and experience, you ignore or hand wave away. You are just another ignorant plant in the JREF garden of 9/11 CTists.
	__________________ I will no longer respond to those who choose to have tools of murder as their avatars. Everyone is a skeptic except, of course, for the stuff that they believe Beaver Hateman: Is your argument that human life loses value proportionate to the number of humans available? Malcolm Kirkpatrick: That's part of the argument. Value is determined by supply and demand.

19th January 2010, 08:26 PM	#492
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	Originally Posted by vinniem Having recently watched this BBC conspiracy files documentary, I must say that I completely agree with you about it, Edx. Well, I still don't think it was balanced and I still don't think they did a good job of going into enough detail or debunking enough claims. I still sort of don't really like it, but its still 100% better than anything truthers have come out with. I hate to even compare it at all. No, it wasn't fair to try and make truthers look more crazy or less credible by using bad lighting and locations because they do a damn good job of making themselves look bad all on their own. Yes, the producer was wrong about the drop out comment. Yes, it obviously wasnt a unbiased look at 911 conspiracy theories.It was obviously trying to debunk it. So apart from being really a debunking conspiracy show rather than how they tried to present it and apart from pointlessly trying to make truthers look stupider than they already are rather than just letting their loonacy show naturally, most of my comments are really just nit picks and the rest are just based on ignorance. I say ignorance because I remember talking about Jones' critique of how they presented pancake theory and I thought he was right and that it had been disproved and how the show got it wrong, but at the time I didnt realise Jones was just an ignorant moron and didn't understand what he was talking about. I still dont really like the show's format since they had very little time and by the end they kind of assumed everyone agreed by that point and then talked about the psycology of the conspiracy theorists. I seem to remember the WTC7 show was a lot better, maybe because they were able to deal more with one subject. But at any rate I could have done a much better job getting to the heart of some of their claims IMO. Now I may be critical of this show but its like Oscar material compared with any truther film. I mean Jesse Venturas new show might even be worse than Alex Jones and thats really saying something. EDIT: Oh and another thing, I see I mentioned Popular Mechanics. I was still under the false impression Popular Mechanics was as truthers claimed they were. Now I would say still not to use them, purely so truthers cant dismiss them straight away just because they are from Popular Mechanics. At this point I remember I was still listening to Alex Jones every day believe it or not.
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	__________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSkepticalIdealist Last edited by Edx; 19th January 2010 at 09:01 PM.

20th January 2010, 04:21 AM	#493
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308	Originally Posted by Edx See my responce to Jonny - strawman - clueless. But what I said in my long post, if you'll rememeber was: "They dont quote the fact that the story was originally reported in the Haaretz and then reported further in The Washington Post that some were warned via instant messenger.." Odigo employees really did receive warnings that was reported to the FBI, there was truth there, they made out it was all a myth. Do you still believe Odigo employees received a warning?
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308

20th January 2010, 04:29 AM	#494
Rolfe Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NT 150 511 Posts: 34,340	He's right about The Conspiracy Files though. It's always a hit piece. Whether the "conspiracy" is a load of mince from start to finish, or whether there might actually be some valid points in there and some valid questions to ask, or even if the balance of probabilities actually favours the conspiracy proponents, it will be filmed in such a way that the last segment can show how the establishment view is obviously right all along. Rolfe.
	__________________ "The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012.

20th January 2010, 04:35 AM	#495
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308	Originally Posted by Rolfe He's right about The Conspiracy Files though. It's always a hit piece. Whether the "conspiracy" is a load of mince from start to finish, or whether there might actually be some valid points in there and some valid questions to ask, or even if the balance of probabilities actually favours the conspiracy proponents, it will be filmed in such a way that the last segment can show how the establishment view is obviously right all along. Rolfe. What really just astounded my was the way they presented Davin Coburn as an expert. This is a guy who looks straight out of college and his only expertise is that his magazine once wrote a hit piece. Listen to Davin Coburn on Charles Goyette's radio show. Goyette isn't even a truther but he destroys Davin. One of the funniest things you will ever hear.
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308

20th January 2010, 04:50 AM	#496
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	You're bumping a lot of really old threads for someone who is new here, Vinnie.

20th January 2010, 04:54 AM	#497
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308	Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth You're bumping a lot of really old threads for someone who is new here, Vinnie. Eh? I was directed to this thread by Edx himself (indirectly) because he was telling me about how he used to be a truther. The other thread I bumped I found by searching for Asteneh-Asl. I have bumped 2 threads. Would you instead prefer me to just start new threads on subjects that interest me rather than bumping current ones????
vinniem Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 308

20th January 2010, 05:33 AM	#498
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	Originally Posted by vinniem Do you still believe Odigo employees received a warning? Nope. That's wrong in every single way possible. Off the top of my head... It wasnt specific, it was only sent to a few employees, those employees were in another country and lastly Odigo didnt even have any offices at the WTC I need to go back to see what I was trying to argue!
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	__________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSkepticalIdealist Last edited by Edx; 20th January 2010 at 05:37 AM.

20th January 2010, 04:31 PM	#499
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by vinniem Eh? I was directed to this thread by Edx himself (indirectly) because he was telling me about how he used to be a truther. The other thread I bumped I found by searching for Asteneh-Asl. I have bumped 2 threads. Would you instead prefer me to just start new threads on subjects that interest me rather than bumping current ones???? Edx earned himself a place on my ignore list (where he still resides) for this thread, and, while I appreciate you bumping a two-year old video I made, yes, it would be better if you didn't haul stuff like this back to the top.

20th January 2010, 05:59 PM	#500
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Edx earned himself a place on my ignore list (where he still resides) . Sheesh Walter, give me a break it was 2 years ago!
Edx Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,279	__________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSkepticalIdealist

20th January 2010, 08:08 PM	#501
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 11,549	Originally Posted by Edx Sheesh Walter, give me a break it was 2 years ago! Quoted for Walger Ego. He seems like a reasonable guy.

22nd January 2010, 07:42 AM	#502
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,597	Originally Posted by Walter Ego it would be better if you didn't haul stuff like this back to the top. Because obviously all the other threads in the section are so much more worthwhile.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

22nd January 2010, 10:49 AM	#503
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Cuddles Because obviously all the other threads in the section are so much more worthwhile. Hey, if my little video (the first one I made about 9/11 Truth) gets a few more hits I'm happy and if Edx get embarrassed by his (former?) obtuseness I'm happy, but I usually don't get my jollies by flogging dead horses. To each his own, however.