Dylan Avery Gets Schooled By The BBC (Video)

[8den]

I'm confused, Dylan Avery describes himself as a "drop out" to the filmakers, the film makers apply that description in their presentation of Dylan.

Dylan and Alex leap on this singular point, as it's unfair, because, technically Dylan never managed to get in, to drop out. A producer botches his response to this spurious non issue.

Have I got this right?

Are they really this desperate as to get this tenuous?

[nicepants]

Originally Posted by Edx

Sure its derogatory, but film school reject is still accurate while "self confessed drop out" implies he is a quitter that now makes CT movies in his room. One implies something worse.

Which of these implies something "worse" in your mind?

self-professed dropout
film-school reject

Personally I don't think it makes much difference either way. I believe in the film they talk about the success of Loose Change and say "not bad for a self-professed dropout". So it's not even used in a manner that might be construed as an attack on his credibility.

Originally Posted by Edx

I hate to do this but Im tired now and have already talked about my problems with it at length and dont have the patience to start repeating myself again and again. Please see my previous posts.

I saw them, you haven't pointed out any other FACTS which you believe the BBC got wrong, mostly seems to be complaints about the amount of face time & which claims were addressed. I want to know what they reported that was wrong.

[Edx]

Originally Posted by beachnut

Yep, you say it has errors, but want to use it because you think it makes a point. Are you endorsing a failed point in Zeitgeist? Reads like it. But as you say your Zeitgeist is irrelevant. [/color]

No Im not endorsing it. Read my posts properly to see why I brought it up.

[Edx]

Originally Posted by nicepants

Which of these implies something "worse"?

self-professed dropout
film-school reject

I just said, didnt I? People get rejected from their chosen colleges and Universities all the time, but dropouts arent generally seen in a positive light because it suggests the person is a quitter who cant stick with something.

Quote:

I saw them, you haven't pointed out any other FACTS which you believe the BBC got wrong, mostly seems to be complaints about the amount of face time & which claims were addressed. I want to know what they reported that was wrong.

Then you must have read me talking about the claim that jewish workers were warned on 911. Tell me, how did the show present this claim?

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Edx

No Im not endorsing it. Read my posts properly to see why I brought it up.

I read your post, you think there is something of value there? Explain please why you brought it up again?

Originally Posted by Edx

Beachnut you obviously havent read a thing Ive said, or you did and chose not to understand it. Im not endorsing Zeitgeist and you of all people I know is a brick wall to debate with, half the things you say dont even seem to make any sence.

You are the one who does not make sence sense. Why do we say this to people instead of explaining what we said again for the impaired people like me.

Originally Posted by Edx

I thought it was pretty funny in Zeitgeist when they added 3 stooges music over a monatge of clips of the bush administration talking about terrorism in their speeches.

It would work for Alex Jones and Dylan even better (check the polls). Alex is so roid stupid, he is a perfect match for Dylan anemic stupid. Their ideas are not based on facts. Alex Jones said it was a hit pieces on Dylan. Dylan is a hit piece on Dylan. Is Dylan smart enough to be a dropout? I would not mention Alex Jones, just present your own review with points. Alex Jones is not a good source. If you use him and think he has facts, it is self critiquing. (facts, not biased junk)

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

I decided to whip up a short video of Dylan Avery getting perplexed when a BBC reporter tried to explain Shanksville corner Wally Miller’s description of the seeming lack of bodies at the United 93 crash site.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Excellent clip

[dbalsdon]

Quote:

while "self confessed drop out" implies he is a quitter

So if someone told you they were a drop out, would you instantly assume they were a quitter?

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by dbalsdon

So, you feel like your talking to a brick wall Edx? Welcome to the debunkers world. Except, we're talking to literally tens of them.

I've given up on Edx. The last time I looked he was still going on about how the BBC was mean to Dylan by calling him a dropout. It's like watching a dog endlessly chasing its own tail in a circle. Round and round he goes getting nowhere and accomplishing exactly nothing.

[HawksFan]

So, Dylan applied to one film school, got rejected, gave up on his apparent dream of becoming a (legitimate) film maker, and now makes lame internet CT follies.

Sounds like a quitter to me.

[Edx]

Originally Posted by HawksFan

So, Dylan applied to one film school, got rejected, gave up on his apparent dream of becoming a (legitimate) film maker, and now makes lame internet CT follies.

Sounds like a quitter to me.

Thats true, but that doesnt make him a "self confessed drop out". Thats spin, and not even very smart spin.

[Jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by Edx

Not according to the producer. He said it was a fair and balanced investigation that went back to primary sources and witness'.



This one was.


Want me to list all the websites, videos and films Ive seen that show me most 911 Truth claims are wrong? No matter, you'd rather put me in a box and dismiss me as a "truther" in order to ignore me.

There you go, it's completely unfair and unbalanced because YOU disagree with the wording used by the guy, and a wording that is at best arguably negative. That's a oretty pathetic argument. The irony being calling it a hit piece and making that argument being on a valid term that you dislike. Very funny.

I don't want to ignore you, I want to point out how utterly absurd your argument is. Your own argument is invalid and dismisses you. I don't need to pretend you are a truther. Your stereo typical behavior makes it obvious. And you like the 1000s before you of course actually think your behavior is unlike everyone else and that YOU unlike others are somehow fair and balanced. Maybe you might want to start reading through the forums to see the 1000s of others who behave exactly like you and tout the same identical claims as you: "I am not a truther, you just want to pretend I am one to shut me up and not face the truth".

My God, could you guys at least try to be original for once?

[Edx]

Originally Posted by dbalsdon

So if someone told you they were a drop out, would you instantly assume they were a quitter?

I watched the show without knowing anything about Avery, I thought nothing of the comment at the time. I assumed he had dropped out of University course, he didnt.

[Jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by Edx

Thats true, but that doesnt make him a "self confessed drop out". Thats spin, and not even very smart spin.

Spin would be trying to take a valid adjective and trying to spin it into a hit piece. As explained, the comment underlines that Dylan chose this direction over school, thus it essentially caused him to drop out of school as he would most likely have continued with school otherwise. Again, stop trying to spin this and use double-standards doing so.

[Edx]

Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless

There you go, it's completely unfair and unbalanced because YOU disagree with the wording used by the guy, and a wording that is at best arguably negative. That's a oretty pathetic argument. The irony being calling it a hit piece and making that argument being on a valid term that you dislike. Very funny.

I disagree with the wording because he wasnt a drop out and in defence the producer tried to pretend the word implied something else in the UK than it does in the US. Its the defence that makes it even worse, because it shows how low the producer is.

EDIT to ADD:

Quote:

Spin would be trying to take a valid adjective and trying to spin it into a hit piece. As explained, the comment underlines that Dylan chose this direction over school, thus it essentially caused him to drop out of school as he would most likely have continued with school otherwise. Again, stop trying to spin this and use double-standards doing so.

Thats a stretch. University isnt school, and in the UK drop out means someone that attended school, college or university and then dropped out of them. I can be said to have dropped out of a college subject I was taking, I cannot be said to have dropped out of University because I never attended University. I have asked repeatedly for you to show me places where they actually use the term in the way the producer claimed, now can you do that or not?

[nicepants]

Originally Posted by Edx

I just said, didnt I? People get rejected from their chosen colleges and Universities all the time, but dropouts arent generally seen in a positive light because it suggests the person is a quitter who cant stick with something.

The way that they presented didn't sound derogatory. Calling him a film-school reject sounds more derogatory to me. Their point essentially seemed to be that his film was successful, despite his level of education, it wasn't an attack.

Originally Posted by Edx

Then you must have read me talking about the claim that jewish workers were warned on 911. Tell me, how did the show present this claim?

I would have to refer to the video....do you have an approximate timestamp?

[Jonnyclueless]

No he didn't imply it means something else in the UK than it does in the US. Just that its what it implies in the UK where he is from and familiar with. The implication being that maybe because of Jone's reaction that maybe it doesn't mean the same thing in the US, thought it clearly does. But Jones, being a con artist was simply looking for anything he could to dismiss the documentary and of course the ony thing he could find was a sad discrepancy in the guys wording.

But once again, you are stretching reality to absurdity. And as already pointed out, this can be further proven by you trying to pretend that the term of a drop out is somehow bad as opposed to him really being more of a reject. If anything, this can only be seen as the producer trying to up-play his direction, not down-play.

Either way, the reason Dylan comes out looking bad is because of his OWN claims, not the producers. And you know this.

[Edx]

Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless

No he didn't imply it means something else in the UK than it does in the US. Just that its what it implies in the UK where he is from and familiar with.

The implication being that maybe because of Jone's reaction that maybe it doesn't mean the same thing in the US, thought it clearly does. But Jones, being a con artist was simply looking for anything he could to dismiss the documentary and of course the ony thing he could find was a sad discrepancy in the guys wording.

But once again, you are stretching reality to absurdity. And as already pointed out, this can be further proven by you trying to pretend that the term of a drop out is somehow bad as opposed to him really being more of a reject. If anything, this can only be seen as the producer trying to up-play his direction, not down-play.

Either way, the reason Dylan comes out looking bad is because of his OWN claims, not the producers. And you know this.

Copy/paste

I have asked repeatedly for you to show me places where they actually use the term in the way the producer claimed, now can you do that or not?

[8den]

Originally Posted by Edx

I just said, didnt I? People get rejected from their chosen colleges and Universities all the time,

Oh this is [rule10]ing ridiculous. Do you know how ****** hard it is to get kicked out of film school? Provided you turn up, fling an attempt at an essay at your tutors close enough to the dealine, and maybe come.

Quote:

but dropouts arent generally seen in a positive light because it suggests the person is a quitter who cant stick with something.

Gosh, do you think Dylan should have thought about this when he described himself as a drop out

[Edx]

Originally Posted by 8den

Oh this is [rule10]ing ridiculous. Do you know how ****** hard it is to get kicked out of film school? Provided you turn up, fling an attempt at an essay at your tutors close enough to the dealine, and maybe come.

As someone said earlier on the facts speak for themselves. Indeed, theres no need for misrepresenting your opponant if you're right.

Quote:

Gosh, do you think Dylan should have thought about this when he described himself as a drop out

He didnt, thats the point.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Edx

I disagree with the wording because he wasnt a drop out and in defence the producer tried to pretend the word implied something else in the UK than it does in the US. Its the defence that makes it even worse, because it shows how low the producer is.

You are right no one will know the truth, Dylan is too dirt dumb not to be considered a dropout; you need to help him. The producer was protecting our school system from shame? Thank you producer. It must be hard, how many times after Dylan opens his mouth does someone say, "the BBC said he was a dropout and it shows". I was saying it for the entire Loose Change video; "how can a someone be so dirt dumb, has to be a dropout."

By getting all hung up on a dirt dumb false ideas pusher like Dylan, no wonder you use Alex Jones as your source for what ever.

No wonder they left out Thermite Jones.

[Jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by Edx

Copy/paste

I have asked repeatedly for you to show me places where they actually use the term in the way the producer claimed, now can you do that or not?

WTF?!?! Are you joking? Did you NOT see the dictionary meaning? Now you are trying to argue on it being valued based on it being well used in documentation?

How about this, I will do that for you when you prove beyond any doubt that the intent was to slander or mislead people. Please prove to us that his intent was unarguably to belittle Dylan by up playing his situation instead of revealing that he was rejected.

[Edx]

Originally Posted by nicepants

The way that they presented didn't sound derogatory. Calling him a film-school reject sounds more derogatory to me. Their point essentially seemed to be that his film was successful, despite his level of education, it wasn't an attack.

Its just one part of the whole misrepresentative whole, nicepants. On its own it wouldnt be such a big deal, but coupled with everything else, it is more so.

Quote:

I would have to refer to the video....do you have an approximate timestamp?

I'll get back to you with the time.

[cisco]

Originally Posted by Edx

Sure its derogatory, but film school reject is still accurate while "self confessed drop out" implies he is a quitter that now makes CT movies in his room. One implies something worse.

Ok, so the BBC was wrong. They were wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. They were wrong. Way wrong. They were wrongety wrongety wrong. They were wronger than Wrongey McWrongerson, the honorable Mayor of Wrongville. They were conducting the Wrongtrain from Wrongerstown to Wrong Station and wearing a giant Wrong Sombrero all the while.

Dylan is absolutely not a drop out who makes CT movies in his room. He is a film school reject who makes CT movies in his room.

Is that what you wanted to hear? Can we move on to a topic with substance now?

[Edx]

Originally Posted by Jonnyclueless

WTF?!?! Are you joking? Did you NOT see the dictionary meaning? Now you are trying to argue on it being valued based on it being well used in documentation?

I have already talked about the dictionary definiton, I cannot be said to have dropped out of a course or group I never attended or was never apart of. I challenge you again to show me where people have used the term drop out to mean what the producer claimed it meant in the UK, that dropout means someone who didnt go on to University. All your faffing about with dictionaries shows me you're like the Creationist who hold adamently to the idea that atheism is a religion. Although at least they have one vague definition that makes everything a religion, your definition of drop out doesnt even support you anyway.

Quote:

How about this, I will do that for you when you prove beyond any doubt that the intent was to slander or mislead people. Please prove to us that his intent was unarguably to belittle Dylan by up playing his situation instead of revealing that he was rejected.

Ive already talked about that and youve ignored it, you really think Im going to waste my time again when you cant even accept that calling Dylan a drop out was incorrect?

Originally Posted by cisco

Ok, so the BBC was wrong. They were wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. They were wrong. Way wrong. They were wrongety wrongety wrong. They were wronger than Wrongey McWrongerson, the honorable Mayor of Wrongville. They were conducting the Wrongtrain from Wrongerstown to Wrong Station and wearing a giant Wrong Sombrero all the while.

Dylan is absolutely not a drop out who makes CT movies in his room. He is a film school reject who makes CT movies in his room.

Is that what you wanted to hear? Can we move on to a topic with substance now?

Yes, they were wrong. Thankyou. That was only one of many points I brought up against it, though for some reason people seem to fixate on this one.


Ed

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by cisco

Dylan is absolutely not a drop out who makes CT movies in his room. He is a film school reject who makes CT movies in his room.

Reject, not a dropout. That does sound much better. "self proclaimed reject", get that correction to the BBC (now roid man Alex Jones will be happy)

[Jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by Edx

I have already talked about the dictionary definiton, I cannot be said to have dropped out of a course or group I never attended or was never apart of. I challenge you again to show me where people have used the term drop out to mean what the producer claimed it meant in the UK, that dropout means someone who didnt go on to University. All your faffing about with dictionaries shows me you're like the Creationist who hold adamently to the idea that atheism is a religion. Although at least they have one vague definition that makes everything a religion, your definition of drop out doesnt even support you anyway.



Ive already talked about that and youve ignored it, you really think Im going to waste my time again when you cant even accept that calling Dylan a drop out was incorrect?


Ed

So if you talked about the dictionary issue you should then clearly see where it points to you being completely wrong. And just because it isn't commonly used does not change that. And it has already been explained to you how it applies in this case and was clearly the interviewer trying to be polite. You are trying to take the term in meanings to literal enrollment, which is clearly not what is meant in this case. And again, this has already been explained to you. For you to continue with this nonsense just shows you are clearly being dishonest here.

In the UK it most certainly CAN mean someone who didn't go to a university. Just like it can mean that anywhere. Again, this has already been explained to you over and over. Why are you going in circles here? And you are comparing US to creationists? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Oh the irony o irony. You seriously don't see the irony in that claim???? LOL!!!

I haven't ignored anything kid, you just want to live in denial here and are trying to make something out of nothing. You have been proven wrong over and over and can't let it go. I don't know why we're wasting time on you. And again, I am sure that you think you are being original here.

I still can't stop laughing over the creationist comment. Much like a creationist tries to use absurd distortion on dictionary terms out of context to try to claim evolution is not valid. You're no different.

[Arus808]

talk about semantics. REALLY WHO the @#$% cares?!!!!

Dylan said he was a "drop out"
BBC used it in a "positive" sense, seeing tha LC WAS SUCCESSFUL! (by saying he was a "self-professed dropout". REALLy, Edx you're the one playing hte SEMANTIC game.

IF dylan didn't want to be cast as a "dropout" then HE SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT HE WAS A DROPOut!

END
OF
STORY!



jeez louise!


Now when are you going to show us what BBC got factually WRONG with theories presented by the COnspiracy nuts, INCLUDING dylan?

[Drudgewire]

Originally Posted by Arus808

Now when are you going to show us what BBC got factually WRONG with theories presented by the COnspiracy nuts, INCLUDING dylan?

Everything obviously. He knew if he could prove we and the BBC ever used suspect wording at any point, that would be conclusive evidence 9/11 was an inside job.

So way to freakin' go, guys who caved. Clean out your NWO desks immediately. And you can shove your severance packages.

[Edx]

Originally Posted by Arus808

talk about semantics. REALLY WHO the @#$% cares?!!!!

The producer tried to deceive, sorry.

Quote:

IF dylan didn't want to be cast as a "dropout" then HE SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT HE WAS A DROPOut!

He didnt, thats the point.

Quote:

Now when are you going to show us what BBC got factually WRONG with theories presented by the COnspiracy nuts, INCLUDING dylan?

Ive already talked at length about the other problems. Tell you what later on I'll come back and make a list, but theres lots of other points Ive already talked about right here in this thread,

I'd like to respond to another comment in this thread that says im overreacting. What Im reacting to is the unbelievable hypocrisy of many of the people in this thread. They literally said its fine and dandy to be dishonest as long as they are attacking CTs. If you object I will be back with quotes proving that if you'd like to deny what people have written in this thread.

[Arus808]

Originally Posted by Edx

The producer tried to deceive, sorry.

NO he didn't
He, repeated what DYLAN stated. How many times must this repeated to you?

Quote:

He didnt, thats the point.

If DYlan didn't state that he was a drop out, then why would the BBC state "self professed dropout".

Do you understand what self professed means?

Quote:

Ive already talked at length about the other problems.

NO you haven't. Yu point out "problems" that you thought were "problems" ,which IN the real world aren't any problems

WE have asked you repeatedly what was FACTUALLY Wrong with the show that BBC presented; and to DATE you have provided NOTHING.

Do you know what FACTUALLY wrong means?


I dont see what is wrong, Edx, we asked you what was factually wrong. YOU didn't provide that.
BBC interviewed the Conspiracy NUTS and they STATED their theories. BBC then took those claims from these nuts, and went to the EXPERTS, the EYEWITNESSES, and the PEOPLE who were there that day, to get their SIDE of the story, aND THEIR statements.

NOW tell us, how was BBC factually wrong?

[cisco]

Originally Posted by Edx

The producer tried to deceive, sorry.



He didnt, thats the point.

You said we could move on. Stick to your word.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by 8den

Oh this is [rule10]ing ridiculous. Do you know how ****** hard it is to get kicked out of film school? Provided you turn up, fling an attempt at an essay at your tutors close enough to the dealine, and maybe come.

Gosh, do you think Dylan should have thought about this when he described himself as a drop out

Edx is simply not going to give this up. About half the posts on this thread are about this stupid dropout question. This has gone past the point of insanity.

Do the Google for ‘Dylan Avery dropout’ and you’ll see the truthers ceased on this one dubious and irrelevant point in the BBC program and used it to discredit the entire show and Edx is doing the same. He got the talking points from Alex Jones (the Rush Limbaugh of the truther movement) and is just reading them off the print out. To no purpose. For distraction. Deliberately.

This is typical truther BS. The BBC called Dylan a dropout so we can discount the BBC. Popular Mechanics is a magazine about tractors so we can discount Popular Mechanics. A dweeb in upstate New York with a Radio Shack laptop and an internet connection is smarter than that all those experts anyway. The BBC didn’t interview my favorite CT loon so they are biased, ect., ect., ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

It a dog chasing it own tail and thinking its getting somewhere when it’s really just going around in circles. Forever. Endlessly. Deliberately. For no purpose other that to distract.

[Arus808]

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Edx is simply not going to give this up. About half the posts on this thread are about this stupid dropout question. This has gone past the point of insanity.

Do the Google for ‘Dylan Avery dropout’ and you’ll see the truthers ceased on this one dubious and irrelevant point in the BBC program and used it to discredit the entire show and Edx is doing the same. He got the talking points from Alex Jones (the Rush Limbaugh of the truther movement) and is just reading them off the print out. To no purpose. For distraction. Deliberately.

This is typical truther BS. The BBC called Dylan a dropout so we can discount the BBC. Popular Mechanics is a magazine about tractors so we can discount Popular Mechanics. A dweeb in upstate New York with a Radio Shack laptop and an internet connection is smarter than that all those experts anyway. The BBC didn’t interview my favorite CT loon so they are biased, ect., ect., ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

It a dog chasing it own tail and thinking its getting somewhere when it’s really just going around in circles. Forever. Endlessly. Deliberately. For no purpose other that to distract.

Which is why we should drop the drop-out issue and push Edx on this:

What did the BBC get FACTUALLY wrong?

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by 8den

I'm confused, Dylan Avery describes himself as a "drop out" to the filmakers, the film makers apply that description in their presentation of Dylan.

Dylan and Alex leap on this singular point, as it's unfair, because, technically Dylan never managed to get in, to drop out. A producer botches his response to this spurious non issue.

Have I got this right?

Are they really this desperate as to get this tenuous?

You are right. It is spurious. It is a not issue. It is a distraction. It is dis-info. It was the only thing Dylan could find wrong in the film and he pounced on it like a vulture on carrion and Edx is doing the same thing.

Most likely Dylan did tell the BBC he was a dropout meaning he was a dropout from society but given his tenuous relationship to veracity of any sort there’s no telling what he meant. But that is of no importance. The truthers have their cudgel to beat the BBC over the head and they are going to use it forever and endlessly for the sole purpose of distraction.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Arus808

Which is why we should drop the drop-out issue and push Edx on this:

What did the BBC get FACTUALLY wrong?

He'll just avoid the question and keep going back to the dropout issue. We have seen how his mind works… circles, circles and more circles.

[Arus808]

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

He'll just avoid the question and keep going back to the dropout issue. We have seen how his mind works… circles, circles and more circles.

yes, then we shouldn't fall in to that "circle" jerk and just simply return to asking him to provide what BBC got factually wrong with the show.

we all agree, the drop-out claim is irrelevant,


So, please Edx what was factually wrong with the BBC docu?

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

You are right. It is spurious. It is a not issue. It is a distraction. It is dis-info. It was the only thing Dylan could find wrong in the film and he pounced on it like a vulture on carrion and Edx is doing the same thing.

Most likely Dylan did tell the BBC he was a dropout meaning he was a dropout from society but given his tenuous relationship to veracity of any sort there’s no telling what he meant. But that is of no importance. The truthers have their cudgel to beat the BBC over the head and they are going to use it forever and endlessly for the sole purpose of distraction.

Is he going to protest the wunderkind statement next? "It was a hit piece, they called me a wunderkind"

[nicepants]

Originally Posted by Edx

Its just one part of the whole misrepresentative whole, nicepants. On its own it wouldnt be such a big deal, but coupled with everything else, it is more so.

Now that I think about it, calling him a dropout is giving him too much credit. Dropouts at least get in, and Dylan didn't even make it that far.

I look forward to seeing your list of the factual errors in the film.

[HawksFan]

Man, I'm glad my teachers didn't grade tests the way he's grading this documentary when I was in school.

Teacher: You got this question wrong, therefore your entire test is wrong! You fail!!!

[cisco]

Let the dropout thing go. He said in post 143 he'd let it go, so let's give him a chance to do so.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by Edx

They didnt touch on a lot of arguments they could have, but you honestly dont see a problem with such blatent misrepresentation? You think a ratio of 9 debunkers to 3 is fair and unbalenced?

Unbalanced yes. Suppose you were doing a documentary on Holocaust Denial. Would you be "fair" with your audience if you presented a program that concluded that there's good evidence on both sides?

This is, quite honestly, the problem that rational documentary producers encounter with the "Truthers". Oh, sure, the first time they deal with one, they'll be dazzled by the array of "facts" presented. My goodness, seven of the hijackers are still alive? Maybe these fellows actually have something. But then they'll dig into the claim and discover it's a load of hogwash. And after about 10 instances of that, they'll start to realize that this is, as they suspected in the first place, just a lunatic conspiracy theory.

I have been contacted by several documentary producers and radio show producers. And without fail after the necessary introductions have been made, they will ask me, "Are these people really serious?"