AE911Truth Watch

ref · 8th February 2008, 08:25 AM

This has taken place on screwloosechange as well.

Number of days that have gone by since Richard Gage admitted that his squib claim was false, without removing it from his website: 30

I will add in by including the "AE911Truth goal of 1000 members by September 11th, 2008" chart.

The right end of that chart is at Sept 11, 2008. They have a looot of work to do. Looks like they are going to break 300 though. Current count is 264.

boloboffin · 18th February 2008, 03:48 PM

As of today, the number of days that have gone by since Richard Gage admitted that his squib claim was false, without removing it from his website: 40

In the meantime, AE911Truth has completely erased his old slideshow. Two days ago, they updated the front page to remove the sample slide of the old slideshow and replaced it with a sample slide from the new slideshow.

Both slides were the collapse hypothesis slide for 7 World Trade. Both slides continue to display the squibs argument. The slide is so small that the type is illegible, but there are clearly still 10 points under the Characteristics of Controlled Demolition section of the slide. This is slide 24 in his new Powerpoint, and it is reproduced here:

40 days after Gage admitted the speciousness of the 7 World Trade squib argument, he continues to show no sign of removing this argument from his site. Indeed, he shows every sign of continuing to promote an known false argument.

Sizzler · 18th February 2008, 04:27 PM

^perhaps he re-evaluated his position.....

boloboffin · 18th February 2008, 04:37 PM

Has he? Gotta link?

DGM · 18th February 2008, 05:23 PM

He also lists 'Cameron Porter' as one of his engineers on the front page although he has been told it's a fake.

Sizzler · 18th February 2008, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Has he? Gotta link?

just speculation

why don't you ask him if you are so concerned?

beachnut · 18th February 2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by ref

The right end of that chart is at Sept 11, 2008. They have a looot of work to do. Looks like they are going to break 300 though. Current count is 264.

Do they know they have fake people, and people put on by others as a prank?

Calcas · 18th February 2008, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by beachnut

Do they know they have fake people, and people put on by others as a prank?

I joined with a fake engineer name just to get on his nutcase email mailing list.

After realizing that the emails were garbage, I replied to the last one (about 3 weeks ago) and fessed up. I told him to remove the name.

Guess what.

It's still there...

Terral · 19th February 2008, 07:07 AM

Hi REF:

Originally Posted by ref

This has taken place on screwloosechange as well.

Number of days that have gone by since Richard Gage admitted that his squib claim was false, without removing it from his website: 30

Man-0-man are you guys WAY off track. This is a clear case of far too many CT ‘debunkers’ (heh) writing nonsense in a 911Truth vacuum, when you have no “Building Fires Did It” or “Building Debris Did It” or “19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals Did It” case using any evidence at all. Richard Gage has no reason to remove the ‘squib’ evidence from his presentation, but “Squibs” (Chris Sarns) is merely pointing out that these complicated points be dropped from ‘future presentations because they just give ‘debunkers’ something to rail about.’ (Sun, 01/06/2008 - 5:25pm.). I know Chris from the Loose Change Board where he writes on my WTC-7 thread (like here = I like his avatar) and he is very much in support of the Controlled Demolition Explanation. I am also an AE911Truth member like Chris and know Richard Gage from our many conversations on these WTC topics. You guys act like this ‘squib’ argument is the basis of Richard’s entire Controlled Demolition Explanation, when in reality that is just one minor piece of the puzzle. Does this mean REF or any of these JREF ‘debunkers’ have a “WTC-7 Collapsed From Building Fires” Case? No! Does ‘this’ look like a picture of a real skyscraper collapsing from Building Fires? No!

Take another look at the ‘squib’ evidence frame-by-frame (here) and decide for yourself. The counter starts at 00:00, but click the >> button and keep your eyes fixed just above the “KTLA 5” logo showing “this” and evidence of this. Richard Gage is not the only 911Truther highlighting the evidence of ‘squibs’ (see the video) in the WTC Controlled Demolition cases. Here we have ‘squibs’ emerging on several WTC-7 floors simultaneously AND none of the concrete floors are in the process of collapse.

Richard’s biggest problem (IMHO) is that he is a really nice guy and wants very much to please everyone, which at times is interpreted as him being wishy-washy. All you are seeing here is Richard’s attempts to shape his CD Presentation for acceptance by an even wider audience, by eliminating what Chris sees as a weakness in the much larger overall case. That means Richard’s next presentation might contain more ‘molten metal’ evidence and less from the ‘squib’ side of the equation. However, the “Building Fires Did It” cronies will still have NO CASE for anything at all. That is the very reason they chuck stones at Richard rather than ‘debate’ the substance of his many CD arguments . . .

GL,

Terral

boloboffin · 19th February 2008, 07:29 AM

Terral, you don't understand. This is what Gage said:

Quote:

We will strike the controversial WTC7 squibs (in the upper right corner) from the online PPT and upcoming DVD update. I agree with the analysis - particularly the impossible "stationary explosions". ((Damn - I thought these were the real deal!)).

His agreement with the analysis is more than enough reason for getting rid of the argument. If he thinks that it's a false argument, why is he still, STILL, promoting it?

Terral · 19th February 2008, 07:42 AM

Hi Bolo:

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Terral, you don't understand. This is what Gage said:

His agreement with the analysis is more than enough reason for getting rid of the argument. If he thinks that it's a false argument, why is he still, STILL, promoting it?

Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all. He is just one architect trying to make everybody happy, which includes AE911Truth members like Terral and Chris on the one side and delusional Building Fires Did It ‘debukers’ on the other side. This is a good lesson proving beyond all doubt that it is impossible to make everyone happy, which hopefully Richard will learn at some point down the road . . .

The ‘squib’ evidence should remain a part of Richard’s larger CD Explanation simply because so much ‘squib’ evidence exists in the different videos showing the CD-like collapse of all three WTC skyscrapers. Just put ‘squib’ and ‘WTC’ into your Google search engine and you find MUCH more than just information about Richard’s CD Presentation . . .

GL,

Terral

twinstead · 19th February 2008, 08:14 AM

Terral nice try, but this is a PRIME example of the tactics your movement uses.

Just look at that slide boloboffin posted! It's crap. Iron Microspheres and molten Iron? In WTC7??? It is carefully crafted to fool people who don't actually do their own research. This is PROPAGANDA, Terral. This should be anathema to people truly interested in the truth, on either side of this issue.

Good Lt · 19th February 2008, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

Hi Bolo:

Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all. He is just one architect trying to make everybody happy,

So he's more interested in making his legions of followers happy than in getting the facts right? That's your excuse of this fraud's incompetence and errors?

Originally Posted by Terral

which includes AE911Truth members like Terral and Chris on the one side and delusional Building Fires Did It ‘debukers’ on the other side. This is a good lesson proving beyond all doubt that it is impossible to make everyone happy, which hopefully Richard will learn at some point down the road . . .

It is also impossible for Troofers to understand simple standards of evidence, to correct their mistakes, to put forth theories and alternative explanations supported by reems of factual evidence, etc.

In other words, he's just another fradulent Troofer trying to make money off of the gullible and off the memory of the 9-11 victims.

Originally Posted by Terral

The ‘squib’ evidence should remain a part of Richard’s larger CD Explanation simply because so much ‘squib’ evidence exists in the different videos showing the CD-like collapse of all three WTC skyscrapers. Just put ‘squib’ and ‘WTC’ into your Google search engine and you find MUCH more than just information about Richard’s CD Presentation . . .

They're not 'squibs,' and there is no "evidence" of controlled demolition. Sorry to ruin the fact-free nature of you response.

So now the results of a Google search are considered evidence of something? It's not even research. It's just being lazy and saying "see, other Troofers pave posted this on their meaningless websites thousands of times."

As is often forgotten by the Troof cult, repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. Ignoring the facts does not change the facts.

defaultdotxbe · 19th February 2008, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all. He is just one architect trying to make everybody happy
GL,

Terral

so the 911truth movement isnt about 911truth, its about making everybody happy?

1337m4n · 19th February 2008, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

so the 911truth movement isnt about 911truth, its about making everybody happy?

And suddenly, everything made sense.

twinstead · 19th February 2008, 09:08 AM

Terral you should be all over Gage on this issue if you are indeed looking for the 'truth'. He makes your movement look like idiots. And not in the "he must be disinfo" way that most truthers resort to, but actively demanding he clean up his act. You should be just as hard as people within your own movement whom you feel misrepresent facts as you are everybody else.

PB&J · 19th February 2008, 09:20 AM

I wish I could live in Terral's world where buildings are only 5' tall

boloboffin · 19th February 2008, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all.

He IS responsible for his own material and he is ON RECORD as relinquishing that squib foolishness, and yet he continues to promote it.

Let me explain this to you. For example, let's suppose that you managed to speak to Pat Robertson, let's say. You managed to convince him about your Two Churches interpretation. You would expect him to immediately change his website and teaching materials about the Two Churches doctrine, wouldn't you? Pat's got a lot of stuff out there, of course, and it wouldn't be an immediate change, but a visible effort should be apparent to you if only as a symbol of good faith.

This is the same thing. Gage has disavowed the argument. He thought, past tense, that it was the real thing. He no longer thinks this and yet he is continuing to post what he considers to be an inaccurate and untruthful argument about 7 World Trade. It is a disgrace to the word "Truth" for Gage to display and support something he considers to be false.

And this remains true as long as his linked remarks stand.

Terral · 19th February 2008, 10:09 AM

Hi Twinstead:

Originally Posted by twinstead

Terral you should be all over Gage on this issue if you are indeed looking for the 'truth'.

We already ‘know’ the 911Truth that the WTC skyscrapers were taken down by Controlled Demolition (my LC Thread). Richard is receiving advice about making ‘his’ CD case that much stronger by possibly omitting the ‘squib’ evidence.

Originally Posted by twinstead

He makes your movement look like idiots.

JREF ‘debunkers’ (heh) call ‘this’ a crashed 100-Ton Jetliner. You say a real 100-Ton Jetliner went through this 18-feet 3-inch second story hole (a close-up shot). Your leaders like “Gravy” are professing “De Facto Atheists” (shown here) finding many of you standing with him. These readers can decide for themselves which side of the 911Truth debate has the most blooming idiots. :0)

Originally Posted by twinstead

And not in the "he must be disinfo" way that most truthers resort to, but actively demanding he clean up his act. You should be just as hard as people within your own movement whom you feel misrepresent facts as you are everybody else.

For the last time: There is PLENTY of ‘Squib’ evidence in all the video footage of these WTC skyscrapers collapsing CD-style into their own footprints. Do Richard Gage, the AE911Truth architects and engineers or the scholars at Scholars For Truth want to withdraw their Controlled Demolition Explanations (like 911Research) from the public record? NO! So stop being foolish . . . Real CD squibs ‘can’ look like puffs of smoke, clouds of hot air escaping from between collapsing floors or any number of things. Chris is suggesting that Richard remove the ‘squib’ EVIDENCE from ‘future’ CD Presentations, so the so-called ‘debunkers’ (heh) have less to whine about. If you guys had a real “Building Fires Did It” Case, or a real “Building Debris Did It” Case, or a “19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals Did It” Case, then you would have no reason to attack real 911Truthers with your constant flow of stupidity. Can anyone here point me into the direction of a “Building Fires Did It” Thread anywhere on this Conspiracies Forum? No! The reason is because you have NO CASE from ‘the evidence’ to support that kind of nonsense . . . Thus “Twoofer-bashing” is all you got . . .

GL,

Terral

Good Lt · 19th February 2008, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

We already ‘know’ the 911Truth that the WTC skyscrapers were taken down by Controlled Demolition (my LC Thread). Richard is receiving advice about making ‘his’ CD case that much stronger by possibly omitting the ‘squib’ evidence.

There is no case to make stronger. There was no controlled demolition. Period. You have not provided, nor can you, any evidence for this whatsoever. Stop repeating debunked claims knowing full well that they're false. That's called lying.

Originally Posted by Terral

JREF ‘debunkers’ (heh) call ‘this’ a crashed 100-Ton Jetliner. You say a real 100-Ton Jetliner went through this 18-feet 3-inch second story hole (a close-up shot). Your leaders like “Gravy” are professing “De Facto Atheists” (shown here) finding many of you standing with him. These readers can decide for themselves which side of the 911Truth debate has the most blooming idiots. :0)

Oh, believe me. We know which side the blooming idiots reside on. It's the side with the no-planers. It's the side with the space-beams idiocy. It's the side with the Mossad/JOOOOOISH cabal theories. It's the side claiming there were "explosives" in the WTC.

Again, your citations here prove nothing, do nothing to support any of your wild claims about controlled demolitions or any other buffoonery your cult comes up with.

Originally Posted by Terral

For the last time: There is PLENTY of ‘Squib’ evidence in all the video footage of these WTC skyscrapers collapsing CD-style into their own footprints.

No, there isn't.

They're not "squibs." They're jets of ejecta and debris from the collapsing building.

DEAL WITH IT.

Originally Posted by Terral

Do Richard Gage, the AE911Truth architects and engineers or the scholars at Scholars For Truth want to withdraw their Controlled Demolition Explanations (like 911Research) from the public record? NO! So stop being foolish . . .

LOL

Foolish? We're not the ones claiming that mysterious secret teams of government agents wired up the WTC for demolition.

Apparently, AEFRAUDS for 9-11 Troof don't like making corrections to their asinine claims as well. No loss here. They're the ones with no careers trying to make a living off of the 9-11 Troof cult. It's not our job here to talk people out of ruining their lives or reputations.

Originally Posted by Terral

Real CD squibs ‘can’ look like puffs of smoke, clouds of hot air escaping from between collapsing floors or any number of things.

A foul ball can look like a fair ball from the other side of the stadium, but that doesn't make the ball fair. Your argument boils down to this:

Bedivere: "How do you know she is a witch?"

Townsman: "SHE LOOKS LIKE ONE!!!"

Originally Posted by Terral

Chris is suggesting that Richard remove the ‘squib’ EVIDENCE from ‘future’ CD Presentations, so the so-called ‘debunkers’ (heh) have less to whine about.

So much for the factual accuracy of your claims, then, huh? I mean, those interested in the accuracy of the claims and factual veracity and evidence are just "whiners."

Thanks for revealing, again, what the Troof cult is all about, because it ain't facts.

Originally Posted by Terral

If you guys had a real “Building Fires Did It” Case, or a real “Building Debris Did It” Case, or a “19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals Did It” Case, then you would have no reason to attack real 911Truthers with your constant flow of stupidity.

Originally Posted by Terral

Can anyone here point me into the direction of a “Building Fires Did It” Thread anywhere on this Conspiracies Forum? No! The reason is because you have NO CASE from ‘the evidence’ to support that kind of nonsense . . . Thus “Twoofer-bashing” is all you got . .

.

Can you look for the thread yourself? Have you ever searched for anything on the Internet before?

Sorry to flummox you, but 'Troofer-bashing' what we do to fools who make outlandish claims with no evidence to support them. Repeatedly. Every day. Over and over. In defiance of evidence, fact and logic.

You left us no choice. You've demonstrated again why you truly earn your derision. Congratulations.

twinstead · 19th February 2008, 11:26 AM

Obviously Terral could care less about the truth. Like all who have come before him (at least the ones who aren't out to just make a buck), this is an issue of ideology, pure and simple. It's all about world view. Truth be damned. Evidence be damned. Propaganda is okay as long as it's propaganda from the 'truth' movement.

Preconception ROCKS!

In order to spread the truth, a few lies may just have to be told, eh, Terral?

ref · 19th February 2008, 02:11 PM

Gage HAS removed the squibs -claim from www.ae911truth.org front page WTC 7 evidence.

And it didn't take long.

boloboffin · 19th February 2008, 02:26 PM

Squibs are still listed as part of the Powerpoint presentation on slides 24 and 66 (the hypothesis slide, before and after). Squibs is still checked off as if he's proven it.

Of course, so is the crazy claim of molten iron and microspheres. I digress.

Squibs are still listed on slides 38-39. The text reads:

Quote:

Side-by-Side Comparison to a Known Controlled Demolition

-- Note the Explosions (Squibs) on Upper Right Corner --

Gage has therefore whitewashed his front page, but continues to promote squibs in his online Powerpoint presentation.

This irredeemably destroys his entire argument, however. By removing this item from his list of controlled demolition characteristics, Gage has revealed the Texas Sharpshooter nature of the list. The front page still reads:

Quote:

As your own eyes witness — WTC Building #7 (a 47 story high-rise not hit by an airplane) exhibits all the characteristics of a classic controlled demolition with explosives:

Yet one of these characteristics was eliminated as soon as Gage realized he couldn't prove it anymore. Which is it? Has Gage truncated his list and now is calling an incomplete list of characteristics complete? Or should squibs never have been on that list in the first place?

By placing squibs on that list and then removing it while still presenting the list as complete, Gage has revealed his utter lack of authority in presenting this list in the first place. His argument is worthless now.

Christopher7 · 19th February 2008, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Squibs are still listed as part of the Powerpoint presentation
This irredeemably destroys his entire argument

Logic of desperation.

Good Lt · 19th February 2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Christopher7

Logic of desperation.

Nope. Just plain old logic.

jhunter1163 · 19th February 2008, 05:48 PM

Ideologues ROCK!

Christopher7 · 19th February 2008, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Good Lt

Nope. Just plain old logic.

If one statement is wrong then that makes all the other statements wrong.

That's not logic, that's a lame excuse to deny the evidence.

Arus808 · 20th February 2008, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Christopher7

If one statement is wrong then that makes all the other statements wrong.

false.

Quote:

That's not logic, that's a lame excuse to deny the evidence.

false.

how can someone be wrong so many times..oh wait...

boloboffin · 20th February 2008, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by Christopher7

If one statement is wrong then that makes all the other statements wrong.

That's not logic, that's a lame excuse to deny the evidence.

Perhaps you don't understand Gage's argument. Gage has presented us all with a list of what he calls the characteristics of controlled demolition. He then proceeds to prove every one of these characteristics exist in 7 World Trade's collapse. Therefore, Gage argues, 7 World Trade is a controlled demolition.

The two premises of his argument are the list and how 7 conforms to each item on the list. You are pretending that I have denied the second premise here. I am denying the first, Gage's authority to present a list of characteristics of controlled demolition.

By eliminating an item from his list and still saying that the list is complete, Gage has voided any such authority he might have had. He's merely building a list with the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy. As I go on to demonstrate at the website, he then cannot actually prove a single item of his list, making him the finest example of a Texas Footshooter available. But that is not the issue here. It is on his authority alone that this list of characteristics stands or falls, and by changing the list based on what he thinks he can prove, he has demonstrated the fallacious nature of the list. It is not a serious attempt to list actual characteristics of controlled demolition at all. It's a lousy CT argument.

twinstead · 20th February 2008, 07:31 AM

This is funny. Not ha ha funny, but sad funny. In a ha ha kind of way. Anyway, if Gage supported the 'official story', and it was found that some of his evidence to support it was suspect, people like Terral land Christopher7 would be ALL over it, claiming the rest of his research just may be suspect because of it.

But, since Gage is a conspiracy theorist, he pretty much gets a pass on any lies he tells because, I can only imagine, he is after all seeking the 'truth'.

Terral · 20th February 2008, 08:15 AM

Hi Twinstead:

Originally Posted by twinstead

This is funny. Not ha ha funny, but sad funny. In a ha ha kind of way. Anyway, if Gage supported the 'official story', and it was found that some of his evidence to support it was suspect, people like Terral land Christopher7 would be ALL over it, claiming the rest of his research just may be suspect because of it.

But, since Gage is a conspiracy theorist, he pretty much gets a pass on any lies he tells because, I can only imagine, he is after all seeking the 'truth'.

Hold on one minute! Senor Bushie and his inside-job clan were in the ‘conspiracy theorist’ business pushing the “Official Story” long before Richard Gage or Dr. Steven Jones by claiming 9/11 was carried out by a bunch of Bearded Jihadist Radicals like this using boxcutters and whatnot. Twinstead simply stands with Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, etc. in defending the Official Conspiracy Story rather than stand with the experts in the field and their CD explanations told by THE EVIDENCE. Never allow these so-called ‘debunkers’ to pretend ‘they’ are anything but ‘conspiracy theorists’ pointing fingers at people like this with their bold accusations. 911Truthers are ‘also’ in the conspiracy business just like Bush, the DoD, the FBI, the CIA and everyone else truly responsible for carrying out these 9/11 attacks ‘and’ for running the ongoing Cover-Up Operation.

Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals give away American Sovereignty by signing the illegal North American Union treaty in March of 2005? No. Bush did that. Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals allow 20 million illegals to run around loose in this once-great-country? No. Twenty-five US citizens are killed EVERY DAY here at home and BUSH is allowing that madness to continue. Bush is the one allowing Ramos and Compean to rot in prison for simply doing their jobs in defending our borders. Are Bearded Jihadist Radicals working behind the scenes to bring in the North American Union NASCO Super-highway? No! Senor Bushie and his newly created ministerial groups are doing all of that behind the scenes to bypass US ports of entry, our unionized longshoremen and truckers to ‘displace’ as many US workers as possible in his constant and unrelenting task of destroying the American Middle Class. That is the reason you have a Department of Homeland Insecurity to place illegal wiretaps on US Citizens ‘and’ 20 million illegal aliens running around loose from sea to shining sea. MANY of you have been DUPED by the Global Imperialist Elites working to bring in their New World Order and simply because Senor Bushie pointed to 19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals and YOU were stupid enough to buy ‘his’ ridiculous ‘conspiracy theory’ based nowhere in reality at all.

The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . .

GL, because you need it,

Terral

Good Lt · 20th February 2008, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . .

WTC7 did not "implode." It collapsed.

There is no "controlled demolition evidence."

America is not "imploding." The Troof cult is.

And through it all, you still haven't proved 9-11 was an inside job, have you Terral?

Didn't think so.

twinstead · 20th February 2008, 08:36 AM

Terral just admit you are biased and hold evidence counter to your viewpoint to a different standard than you do evidence that supports it and you'll feel much better about yourself. You know you do it. We know you do it.

I promise. The truth will set you free.

And by the way, exactly how do you know YOU'RE not disinfo? I suspect that "They" have got to you, my friend, maybe blackmail, maybe brainwashing (the NWO are SLY, SLY, SLY!) who knows? Boy, they must have seen you from a mile away. You have disinfo written all over you.

twinstead · 20th February 2008, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . .
Terral

Wow. Ouch, that's going to leave a mark! LOL. I haven't read a good old-fashioned irrational, paranoid diatribe in a while (since the last time you typed one, probably).

Yea yea yea whatever. Rant all you want. You're just the internet equivalent of the bearded old man on the street corner in every big city staring wide-eyed and spewing spittle about how the world is going to end.

pomeroo · 20th February 2008, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

Hi Twinstead:

Hold on one minute! Senor Bushie and his inside-job clan were in the ‘conspiracy theorist’ business pushing the “Official Story” long before Richard Gage or Dr. Steven Jones by claiming 9/11 was carried out by a bunch of Bearded Jihadist Radicals like this using boxcutters and whatnot. Twinstead simply stands with Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, etc. in defending the Official Conspiracy Story rather than stand with the experts in the field and their CD explanations told by THE EVIDENCE. Never allow these so-called ‘debunkers’ to pretend ‘they’ are anything but ‘conspiracy theorists’ pointing fingers at people like this with their bold accusations. 911Truthers are ‘also’ in the conspiracy business just like Bush, the DoD, the FBI, the CIA and everyone else truly responsible for carrying out these 9/11 attacks ‘and’ for running the ongoing Cover-Up Operation.

Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals give away American Sovereignty by signing the illegal North American Union treaty in March of 2005? No. Bush did that. Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals allow 20 million illegals to run around loose in this once-great-country? No. Twenty-five US citizens are killed EVERY DAY here at home and BUSH is allowing that madness to continue. Bush is the one allowing Ramos and Compean to rot in prison for simply doing their jobs in defending our borders. Are Bearded Jihadist Radicals working behind the scenes to bring in the North American Union NASCO Super-highway? No! Senor Bushie and his newly created ministerial groups are doing all of that behind the scenes to bypass US ports of entry, our unionized longshoremen and truckers to ‘displace’ as many US workers as possible in his constant and unrelenting task of destroying the American Middle Class. That is the reason you have a Department of Homeland Insecurity to place illegal wiretaps on US Citizens ‘and’ 20 million illegal aliens running around loose from sea to shining sea. MANY of you have been DUPED by the Global Imperialist Elites working to bring in their New World Order and simply because Senor Bushie pointed to 19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals and YOU were stupid enough to buy ‘his’ ridiculous ‘conspiracy theory’ based nowhere in reality at all.

The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . .

GL, because you need it,

Terral

You've been caught lying again. American sovereignty has not been "given away."

When will you stop lying?

defaultdotxbe · 20th February 2008, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Terral

Hi Twinstead:

Hold on one minute! Senor Bushie and his inside-job clan were in the ‘conspiracy theorist’ business pushing the “Official Story” long before Richard Gage or Dr. Steven Jones by claiming 9/11 was carried out by a bunch of Bearded Jihadist Radicals like this using boxcutters and whatnot. Twinstead simply stands with Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, etc. in defending the Official Conspiracy Story rather than stand with the experts in the field and their CD explanations told by THE EVIDENCE. Never allow these so-called ‘debunkers’ to pretend ‘they’ are anything but ‘conspiracy theorists’ pointing fingers at people like this with their bold accusations. 911Truthers are ‘also’ in the conspiracy business just like Bush, the DoD, the FBI, the CIA and everyone else truly responsible for carrying out these 9/11 attacks ‘and’ for running the ongoing Cover-Up Operation.

Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals give away American Sovereignty by signing the illegal North American Union treaty in March of 2005? No. Bush did that. Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals allow 20 million illegals to run around loose in this once-great-country? No. Twenty-five US citizens are killed EVERY DAY here at home and BUSH is allowing that madness to continue. Bush is the one allowing Ramos and Compean to rot in prison for simply doing their jobs in defending our borders. Are Bearded Jihadist Radicals working behind the scenes to bring in the North American Union NASCO Super-highway? No! Senor Bushie and his newly created ministerial groups are doing all of that behind the scenes to bypass US ports of entry, our unionized longshoremen and truckers to ‘displace’ as many US workers as possible in his constant and unrelenting task of destroying the American Middle Class. That is the reason you have a Department of Homeland Insecurity to place illegal wiretaps on US Citizens ‘and’ 20 million illegal aliens running around loose from sea to shining sea. MANY of you have been DUPED by the Global Imperialist Elites working to bring in their New World Order and simply because Senor Bushie pointed to 19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals and YOU were stupid enough to buy ‘his’ ridiculous ‘conspiracy theory’ based nowhere in reality at all.

The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . .

GL, because you need it,

Terral

so do you have a script that puts the scare quotes around random words or do you do it manually?

twinstead · 20th February 2008, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

so do you have a script that puts the scare quotes around random words or do you do it manually?

He uses a software package called Special Program for Exclamation Words.

Probably SPEW 2.0

X · 20th February 2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by ref

Gage HAS removed the squibs -claim from www.ae911truth.org front page WTC 7 evidence.

And it didn't take long.

Are you being sarcastic?
(it's hard to tell on the internet sometimes...)

"Squibs" is still present on the front page.
It's item 4 in the list of "characteristics of destruction by explosions:".

It links here.

below is a screenshot I just took, with the computer clock included.

Christopher7 · 20th February 2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Good Lt

WTC7 did not "implode." It collapsed.

Pure denial.
You call Gage a liar because the squibs in WTC 7 are inconclusive and then you make asinine statements like this one.

Stacy Loizeaux: The term "implosion" was coined by my grandmother back in, I guess, the '60s. It's a more descriptive way to explain what we do than "explosion."

FEMA 5-31
"Loss of strength due to the transfer trusses could explain why the building imploded"
"WTC 7 had a relatively small debris field because the façade came straight down"

NIST L-33
"The debris of WTC 7 was mostly contained within the original footprint of the building."

Building implosion is a fine art. It cannot happen by chance. WTC 7 was a CD

Christopher7 · 20th February 2008, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by [X]

"Squibs" is still present on the front page.
It's item 4 in the list of "characteristics of destruction by explosions:".
It links here.
below is a screenshot I just took, with the computer clock included.

The squibs in question are the ones in WTC 7, not the Trade Towers.

8th February 2008, 08:25 AM	#1
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	AE911Truth Watch This has taken place on screwloosechange as well. Number of days that have gone by since Richard Gage admitted that his squib claim was false, without removing it from his website: 30 I will add in by including the "AE911Truth goal of 1000 members by September 11th, 2008" chart. The right end of that chart is at Sept 11, 2008. They have a looot of work to do. Looks like they are going to break 300 though. Current count is 264.
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

18th February 2008, 04:27 PM	#3
Sizzler Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,562	^perhaps he re-evaluated his position.....
Sizzler Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,562

18th February 2008, 05:23 PM	#5
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,321	He also lists 'Cameron Porter' as one of his engineers on the front page although he has been told it's a fake.
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

18th February 2008, 06:14 PM	#6
Sizzler Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,562	Originally Posted by boloboffin Has he? Gotta link? just speculation why don't you ask him if you are so concerned?
Sizzler Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,562

19th February 2008, 07:07 AM	#9
Terral Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 257	The "Building Fires Did It" debunkers Still have NO CASE. Period. Hi REF: Originally Posted by ref This has taken place on screwloosechange as well. Number of days that have gone by since Richard Gage admitted that his squib claim was false, without removing it from his website: 30 Man-0-man are you guys WAY off track. This is a clear case of far too many CT ‘debunkers’ (heh) writing nonsense in a 911Truth vacuum, when you have no “Building Fires Did It” or “Building Debris Did It” or “19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals Did It” case using any evidence at all. Richard Gage has no reason to remove the ‘squib’ evidence from his presentation, but “Squibs” (Chris Sarns) is merely pointing out that these complicated points be dropped from ‘future presentations because they just give ‘debunkers’ something to rail about.’ (Sun, 01/06/2008 - 5:25pm.). I know Chris from the Loose Change Board where he writes on my WTC-7 thread (like here = I like his avatar) and he is very much in support of the Controlled Demolition Explanation. I am also an AE911Truth member like Chris and know Richard Gage from our many conversations on these WTC topics. You guys act like this ‘squib’ argument is the basis of Richard’s entire Controlled Demolition Explanation, when in reality that is just one minor piece of the puzzle. Does this mean REF or any of these JREF ‘debunkers’ have a “WTC-7 Collapsed From Building Fires” Case? No! Does ‘this’ look like a picture of a real skyscraper collapsing from Building Fires? No! Take another look at the ‘squib’ evidence frame-by-frame (here) and decide for yourself. The counter starts at 00:00, but click the >> button and keep your eyes fixed just above the “KTLA 5” logo showing “this” and evidence of this. Richard Gage is not the only 911Truther highlighting the evidence of ‘squibs’ (see the video) in the WTC Controlled Demolition cases. Here we have ‘squibs’ emerging on several WTC-7 floors simultaneously AND none of the concrete floors are in the process of collapse. Richard’s biggest problem (IMHO) is that he is a really nice guy and wants very much to please everyone, which at times is interpreted as him being wishy-washy. All you are seeing here is Richard’s attempts to shape his CD Presentation for acceptance by an even wider audience, by eliminating what Chris sees as a weakness in the much larger overall case. That means Richard’s next presentation might contain more ‘molten metal’ evidence and less from the ‘squib’ side of the equation. However, the “Building Fires Did It” cronies will still have NO CASE for anything at all. That is the very reason they chuck stones at Richard rather than ‘debate’ the substance of his many CD arguments . . . GL, Terral

18th February 2008, 03:48 PM	#2
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	As of today, the number of days that have gone by since Richard Gage admitted that his squib claim was false, without removing it from his website: 40 In the meantime, AE911Truth has completely erased his old slideshow. Two days ago, they updated the front page to remove the sample slide of the old slideshow and replaced it with a sample slide from the new slideshow. Both slides were the collapse hypothesis slide for 7 World Trade. Both slides continue to display the squibs argument. The slide is so small that the type is illegible, but there are clearly still 10 points under the Characteristics of Controlled Demolition section of the slide. This is slide 24 in his new Powerpoint, and it is reproduced here: 40 days after Gage admitted the speciousness of the 7 World Trade squib argument, he continues to show no sign of removing this argument from his site. Indeed, he shows every sign of continuing to promote an known false argument.

18th February 2008, 04:37 PM	#4
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	Has he? Gotta link?

18th February 2008, 06:41 PM	#7
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,902	Originally Posted by ref The right end of that chart is at Sept 11, 2008. They have a looot of work to do. Looks like they are going to break 300 though. Current count is 264. Do they know they have fake people, and people put on by others as a prank?

18th February 2008, 06:52 PM	#8
Calcas Master of my Domain Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,472	Originally Posted by beachnut Do they know they have fake people, and people put on by others as a prank? I joined with a fake engineer name just to get on his nutcase email mailing list. After realizing that the emails were garbage, I replied to the last one (about 3 weeks ago) and fessed up. I told him to remove the name. Guess what. It's still there...

19th February 2008, 07:29 AM	#10
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	Terral, you don't understand. This is what Gage said: Quote: We will strike the controversial WTC7 squibs (in the upper right corner) from the online PPT and upcoming DVD update. I agree with the analysis - particularly the impossible "stationary explosions". ((Damn - I thought these were the real deal!)). His agreement with the analysis is more than enough reason for getting rid of the argument. If he thinks that it's a false argument, why is he still, STILL, promoting it?

19th February 2008, 07:42 AM	#11
Terral Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 257	Richard Is Standing In The Middle Trying To Make EVERYONE Happy . . . Hi Bolo: Originally Posted by boloboffin Terral, you don't understand. This is what Gage said: His agreement with the analysis is more than enough reason for getting rid of the argument. If he thinks that it's a false argument, why is he still, STILL, promoting it? Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all. He is just one architect trying to make everybody happy, which includes AE911Truth members like Terral and Chris on the one side and delusional Building Fires Did It ‘debukers’ on the other side. This is a good lesson proving beyond all doubt that it is impossible to make everyone happy, which hopefully Richard will learn at some point down the road . . . The ‘squib’ evidence should remain a part of Richard’s larger CD Explanation simply because so much ‘squib’ evidence exists in the different videos showing the CD-like collapse of all three WTC skyscrapers. Just put ‘squib’ and ‘WTC’ into your Google search engine and you find MUCH more than just information about Richard’s CD Presentation . . . GL, Terral

19th February 2008, 08:14 AM	#12
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	Terral nice try, but this is a PRIME example of the tactics your movement uses. Just look at that slide boloboffin posted! It's crap. Iron Microspheres and molten Iron? In WTC7??? It is carefully crafted to fool people who don't actually do their own research. This is PROPAGANDA, Terral. This should be anathema to people truly interested in the truth, on either side of this issue.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

19th February 2008, 08:23 AM	#13
Good Lt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Satellite of Love Posts: 1,487	Originally Posted by Terral Hi Bolo: Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all. He is just one architect trying to make everybody happy, So he's more interested in making his legions of followers happy than in getting the facts right? That's your excuse of this fraud's incompetence and errors? Originally Posted by Terral which includes AE911Truth members like Terral and Chris on the one side and delusional Building Fires Did It ‘debukers’ on the other side. This is a good lesson proving beyond all doubt that it is impossible to make everyone happy, which hopefully Richard will learn at some point down the road . . . It is also impossible for Troofers to understand simple standards of evidence, to correct their mistakes, to put forth theories and alternative explanations supported by reems of factual evidence, etc. In other words, he's just another fradulent Troofer trying to make money off of the gullible and off the memory of the 9-11 victims. Originally Posted by Terral The ‘squib’ evidence should remain a part of Richard’s larger CD Explanation simply because so much ‘squib’ evidence exists in the different videos showing the CD-like collapse of all three WTC skyscrapers. Just put ‘squib’ and ‘WTC’ into your Google search engine and you find MUCH more than just information about Richard’s CD Presentation . . . They're not 'squibs,' and there is no "evidence" of controlled demolition. Sorry to ruin the fact-free nature of you response. So now the results of a Google search are considered evidence of something? It's not even research. It's just being lazy and saying "see, other Troofers pave posted this on their meaningless websites thousands of times." As is often forgotten by the Troof cult, repeating a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. Ignoring the facts does not change the facts.
	__________________ Sorrowful and great is the artist's destiny. - Liszt Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful. - Ian Faith

19th February 2008, 08:55 AM	#14
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by Terral Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all. He is just one architect trying to make everybody happy GL, Terral so the 911truth movement isnt about 911truth, its about making everybody happy?
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

19th February 2008, 09:01 AM	#15
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,499	Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe so the 911truth movement isnt about 911truth, its about making everybody happy? And suddenly, everything made sense.

19th February 2008, 09:08 AM	#16
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	Terral you should be all over Gage on this issue if you are indeed looking for the 'truth'. He makes your movement look like idiots. And not in the "he must be disinfo" way that most truthers resort to, but actively demanding he clean up his act. You should be just as hard as people within your own movement whom you feel misrepresent facts as you are everybody else.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

19th February 2008, 09:20 AM	#17
PB&J Scholar Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The First Terrace Posts: 107	I wish I could live in Terral's world where buildings are only 5' tall

19th February 2008, 09:47 AM	#18
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	Originally Posted by Terral Richard Gage is not the originator of the “squib” argument or the supreme being in charge of representing the entire 911Truth Movement on anything at all. He IS responsible for his own material and he is ON RECORD as relinquishing that squib foolishness, and yet he continues to promote it. Let me explain this to you. For example, let's suppose that you managed to speak to Pat Robertson, let's say. You managed to convince him about your Two Churches interpretation. You would expect him to immediately change his website and teaching materials about the Two Churches doctrine, wouldn't you? Pat's got a lot of stuff out there, of course, and it wouldn't be an immediate change, but a visible effort should be apparent to you if only as a symbol of good faith. This is the same thing. Gage has disavowed the argument. He thought, past tense, that it was the real thing. He no longer thinks this and yet he is continuing to post what he considers to be an inaccurate and untruthful argument about 7 World Trade. It is a disgrace to the word "Truth" for Gage to display and support something he considers to be false. And this remains true as long as his linked remarks stand.

19th February 2008, 10:09 AM	#19
Terral Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 257	Twoofer-Bashing Is The Result Of You Having No "Building Fires Did It" Case . . . Hi Twinstead: Originally Posted by twinstead Terral you should be all over Gage on this issue if you are indeed looking for the 'truth'. We already ‘know’ the 911Truth that the WTC skyscrapers were taken down by Controlled Demolition (my LC Thread). Richard is receiving advice about making ‘his’ CD case that much stronger by possibly omitting the ‘squib’ evidence. Originally Posted by twinstead He makes your movement look like idiots. JREF ‘debunkers’ (heh) call ‘this’ a crashed 100-Ton Jetliner. You say a real 100-Ton Jetliner went through this 18-feet 3-inch second story hole (a close-up shot). Your leaders like “Gravy” are professing “De Facto Atheists” (shown here) finding many of you standing with him. These readers can decide for themselves which side of the 911Truth debate has the most blooming idiots. :0) Originally Posted by twinstead And not in the "he must be disinfo" way that most truthers resort to, but actively demanding he clean up his act. You should be just as hard as people within your own movement whom you feel misrepresent facts as you are everybody else. For the last time: There is PLENTY of ‘Squib’ evidence in all the video footage of these WTC skyscrapers collapsing CD-style into their own footprints. Do Richard Gage, the AE911Truth architects and engineers or the scholars at Scholars For Truth want to withdraw their Controlled Demolition Explanations (like 911Research) from the public record? NO! So stop being foolish . . . Real CD squibs ‘can’ look like puffs of smoke, clouds of hot air escaping from between collapsing floors or any number of things. Chris is suggesting that Richard remove the ‘squib’ EVIDENCE from ‘future’ CD Presentations, so the so-called ‘debunkers’ (heh) have less to whine about. If you guys had a real “Building Fires Did It” Case, or a real “Building Debris Did It” Case, or a “19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals Did It” Case, then you would have no reason to attack real 911Truthers with your constant flow of stupidity. Can anyone here point me into the direction of a “Building Fires Did It” Thread anywhere on this Conspiracies Forum? No! The reason is because you have NO CASE from ‘the evidence’ to support that kind of nonsense . . . Thus “Twoofer-bashing” is all you got . . . GL, Terral
	Last edited by Terral; 19th February 2008 at 10:11 AM. Reason: added 'receiving advice' lingo

19th February 2008, 10:30 AM	#20
Good Lt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Satellite of Love Posts: 1,487	Originally Posted by Terral We already ‘know’ the 911Truth that the WTC skyscrapers were taken down by Controlled Demolition (my LC Thread). Richard is receiving advice about making ‘his’ CD case that much stronger by possibly omitting the ‘squib’ evidence. There is no case to make stronger. There was no controlled demolition. Period. You have not provided, nor can you, any evidence for this whatsoever. Stop repeating debunked claims knowing full well that they're false. That's called lying. Originally Posted by Terral JREF ‘debunkers’ (heh) call ‘this’ a crashed 100-Ton Jetliner. You say a real 100-Ton Jetliner went through this 18-feet 3-inch second story hole (a close-up shot). Your leaders like “Gravy” are professing “De Facto Atheists” (shown here) finding many of you standing with him. These readers can decide for themselves which side of the 911Truth debate has the most blooming idiots. :0) Oh, believe me. We know which side the blooming idiots reside on. It's the side with the no-planers. It's the side with the space-beams idiocy. It's the side with the Mossad/JOOOOOISH cabal theories. It's the side claiming there were "explosives" in the WTC. Again, your citations here prove nothing, do nothing to support any of your wild claims about controlled demolitions or any other buffoonery your cult comes up with. Originally Posted by Terral For the last time: There is PLENTY of ‘Squib’ evidence in all the video footage of these WTC skyscrapers collapsing CD-style into their own footprints. No, there isn't. They're not "squibs." They're jets of ejecta and debris from the collapsing building. DEAL WITH IT. Originally Posted by Terral Do Richard Gage, the AE911Truth architects and engineers or the scholars at Scholars For Truth want to withdraw their Controlled Demolition Explanations (like 911Research) from the public record? NO! So stop being foolish . . . LOL Foolish? We're not the ones claiming that mysterious secret teams of government agents wired up the WTC for demolition. Apparently, AEFRAUDS for 9-11 Troof don't like making corrections to their asinine claims as well. No loss here. They're the ones with no careers trying to make a living off of the 9-11 Troof cult. It's not our job here to talk people out of ruining their lives or reputations. Originally Posted by Terral Real CD squibs ‘can’ look like puffs of smoke, clouds of hot air escaping from between collapsing floors or any number of things. A foul ball can look like a fair ball from the other side of the stadium, but that doesn't make the ball fair. Your argument boils down to this: Bedivere: "How do you know she is a witch?" Townsman: "SHE LOOKS LIKE ONE!!!" Originally Posted by Terral Chris is suggesting that Richard remove the ‘squib’ EVIDENCE from ‘future’ CD Presentations, so the so-called ‘debunkers’ (heh) have less to whine about. So much for the factual accuracy of your claims, then, huh? I mean, those interested in the accuracy of the claims and factual veracity and evidence are just "whiners." Thanks for revealing, again, what the Troof cult is all about, because it ain't facts. Originally Posted by Terral If you guys had a real “Building Fires Did It” Case, or a real “Building Debris Did It” Case, or a “19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals Did It” Case, then you would have no reason to attack real 911Truthers with your constant flow of stupidity. Originally Posted by Terral Can anyone here point me into the direction of a “Building Fires Did It” Thread anywhere on this Conspiracies Forum? No! The reason is because you have NO CASE from ‘the evidence’ to support that kind of nonsense . . . Thus “Twoofer-bashing” is all you got . . . Can you look for the thread yourself? Have you ever searched for anything on the Internet before? Sorry to flummox you, but 'Troofer-bashing' what we do to fools who make outlandish claims with no evidence to support them. Repeatedly. Every day. Over and over. In defiance of evidence, fact and logic. You left us no choice. You've demonstrated again why you truly earn your derision. Congratulations.
	__________________ Sorrowful and great is the artist's destiny. - Liszt Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful. - Ian Faith Last edited by Good Lt; 19th February 2008 at 10:33 AM.

19th February 2008, 11:26 AM	#21
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	Obviously Terral could care less about the truth. Like all who have come before him (at least the ones who aren't out to just make a buck), this is an issue of ideology, pure and simple. It's all about world view. Truth be damned. Evidence be damned. Propaganda is okay as long as it's propaganda from the 'truth' movement. Preconception ROCKS! In order to spread the truth, a few lies may just have to be told, eh, Terral?
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

19th February 2008, 02:11 PM	#22
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	Gage HAS removed the squibs -claim from www.ae911truth.org front page WTC 7 evidence. And it didn't take long.
ref Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,663	__________________ 9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro

19th February 2008, 02:26 PM	#23
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	Squibs are still listed as part of the Powerpoint presentation on slides 24 and 66 (the hypothesis slide, before and after). Squibs is still checked off as if he's proven it. Of course, so is the crazy claim of molten iron and microspheres. I digress. Squibs are still listed on slides 38-39. The text reads: Quote: Side-by-Side Comparison to a Known Controlled Demolition -- Note the Explosions (Squibs) on Upper Right Corner -- Gage has therefore whitewashed his front page, but continues to promote squibs in his online Powerpoint presentation. This irredeemably destroys his entire argument, however. By removing this item from his list of controlled demolition characteristics, Gage has revealed the Texas Sharpshooter nature of the list. The front page still reads: Quote: As your own eyes witness — WTC Building #7 (a 47 story high-rise not hit by an airplane) exhibits all the characteristics of a classic controlled demolition with explosives: Yet one of these characteristics was eliminated as soon as Gage realized he couldn't prove it anymore. Which is it? Has Gage truncated his list and now is calling an incomplete list of characteristics complete? Or should squibs never have been on that list in the first place? By placing squibs on that list and then removing it while still presenting the list as complete, Gage has revealed his utter lack of authority in presenting this list in the first place. His argument is worthless now.

19th February 2008, 05:24 PM	#24
Christopher7 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,535	Originally Posted by boloboffin Squibs are still listed as part of the Powerpoint presentation This irredeemably destroys his entire argument Logic of desperation.

19th February 2008, 05:39 PM	#25
Good Lt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Satellite of Love Posts: 1,487	Originally Posted by Christopher7 Logic of desperation. Nope. Just plain old logic.
	__________________ Sorrowful and great is the artist's destiny. - Liszt Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful. - Ian Faith

19th February 2008, 05:48 PM	#26
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,576	Ideologues ROCK!

19th February 2008, 11:55 PM	#27
Christopher7 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,535	Originally Posted by Good Lt Nope. Just plain old logic. If one statement is wrong then that makes all the other statements wrong. That's not logic, that's a lame excuse to deny the evidence.

20th February 2008, 12:33 AM	#28
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,202	Originally Posted by Christopher7 If one statement is wrong then that makes all the other statements wrong. false. Quote: That's not logic, that's a lame excuse to deny the evidence. false. how can someone be wrong so many times..oh wait...
Arus808 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,202	__________________ Back home with a new sunburn...I look like a tomato. “Life may begin at 30, but it doesn’t get real interesting until about 150.” “Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.”

20th February 2008, 02:28 AM	#29
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	Originally Posted by Christopher7 If one statement is wrong then that makes all the other statements wrong. That's not logic, that's a lame excuse to deny the evidence. Perhaps you don't understand Gage's argument. Gage has presented us all with a list of what he calls the characteristics of controlled demolition. He then proceeds to prove every one of these characteristics exist in 7 World Trade's collapse. Therefore, Gage argues, 7 World Trade is a controlled demolition. The two premises of his argument are the list and how 7 conforms to each item on the list. You are pretending that I have denied the second premise here. I am denying the first, Gage's authority to present a list of characteristics of controlled demolition. By eliminating an item from his list and still saying that the list is complete, Gage has voided any such authority he might have had. He's merely building a list with the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy. As I go on to demonstrate at the website, he then cannot actually prove a single item of his list, making him the finest example of a Texas Footshooter available. But that is not the issue here. It is on his authority alone that this list of characteristics stands or falls, and by changing the list based on what he thinks he can prove, he has demonstrated the fallacious nature of the list. It is not a serious attempt to list actual characteristics of controlled demolition at all. It's a lousy CT argument.
	Last edited by boloboffin; 20th February 2008 at 02:29 AM.

20th February 2008, 07:31 AM	#30
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	This is funny. Not ha ha funny, but sad funny. In a ha ha kind of way. Anyway, if Gage supported the 'official story', and it was found that some of his evidence to support it was suspect, people like Terral land Christopher7 would be ALL over it, claiming the rest of his research just may be suspect because of it. But, since Gage is a conspiracy theorist, he pretty much gets a pass on any lies he tells because, I can only imagine, he is after all seeking the 'truth'.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

20th February 2008, 08:15 AM	#31
Terral Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 257	Senor Bushie Was In The "Conspiracy Theory" Business Before Gage And Jones Hi Twinstead: Originally Posted by twinstead This is funny. Not ha ha funny, but sad funny. In a ha ha kind of way. Anyway, if Gage supported the 'official story', and it was found that some of his evidence to support it was suspect, people like Terral land Christopher7 would be ALL over it, claiming the rest of his research just may be suspect because of it. But, since Gage is a conspiracy theorist, he pretty much gets a pass on any lies he tells because, I can only imagine, he is after all seeking the 'truth'. Hold on one minute! Senor Bushie and his inside-job clan were in the ‘conspiracy theorist’ business pushing the “Official Story” long before Richard Gage or Dr. Steven Jones by claiming 9/11 was carried out by a bunch of Bearded Jihadist Radicals like this using boxcutters and whatnot. Twinstead simply stands with Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, etc. in defending the Official Conspiracy Story rather than stand with the experts in the field and their CD explanations told by THE EVIDENCE. Never allow these so-called ‘debunkers’ to pretend ‘they’ are anything but ‘conspiracy theorists’ pointing fingers at people like this with their bold accusations. 911Truthers are ‘also’ in the conspiracy business just like Bush, the DoD, the FBI, the CIA and everyone else truly responsible for carrying out these 9/11 attacks ‘and’ for running the ongoing Cover-Up Operation. Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals give away American Sovereignty by signing the illegal North American Union treaty in March of 2005? No. Bush did that. Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals allow 20 million illegals to run around loose in this once-great-country? No. Twenty-five US citizens are killed EVERY DAY here at home and BUSH is allowing that madness to continue. Bush is the one allowing Ramos and Compean to rot in prison for simply doing their jobs in defending our borders. Are Bearded Jihadist Radicals working behind the scenes to bring in the North American Union NASCO Super-highway? No! Senor Bushie and his newly created ministerial groups are doing all of that behind the scenes to bypass US ports of entry, our unionized longshoremen and truckers to ‘displace’ as many US workers as possible in his constant and unrelenting task of destroying the American Middle Class. That is the reason you have a Department of Homeland Insecurity to place illegal wiretaps on US Citizens ‘and’ 20 million illegal aliens running around loose from sea to shining sea. MANY of you have been DUPED by the Global Imperialist Elites working to bring in their New World Order and simply because Senor Bushie pointed to 19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals and YOU were stupid enough to buy ‘his’ ridiculous ‘conspiracy theory’ based nowhere in reality at all. The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . . GL, because you need it, Terral
	Last edited by Terral; 20th February 2008 at 08:18 AM. Reason: by to "buy." You people need to Wake The HECK Up!

20th February 2008, 08:30 AM	#32
Good Lt Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Satellite of Love Posts: 1,487	Originally Posted by Terral The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . . WTC7 did not "implode." It collapsed. There is no "controlled demolition evidence." America is not "imploding." The Troof cult is. And through it all, you still haven't proved 9-11 was an inside job, have you Terral? Didn't think so.
	__________________ Sorrowful and great is the artist's destiny. - Liszt Certainly, in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, having a good solid piece of wood in your hand is often useful. - Ian Faith Last edited by Good Lt; 20th February 2008 at 08:30 AM.

20th February 2008, 08:36 AM	#33
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	Terral just admit you are biased and hold evidence counter to your viewpoint to a different standard than you do evidence that supports it and you'll feel much better about yourself. You know you do it. We know you do it. I promise. The truth will set you free. And by the way, exactly how do you know YOU'RE not disinfo? I suspect that "They" have got to you, my friend, maybe blackmail, maybe brainwashing (the NWO are SLY, SLY, SLY!) who knows? Boy, they must have seen you from a mile away. You have disinfo written all over you.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

20th February 2008, 08:40 AM	#34
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,573	Originally Posted by Terral The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . Terral Wow. Ouch, that's going to leave a mark! LOL. I haven't read a good old-fashioned irrational, paranoid diatribe in a while (since the last time you typed one, probably). Yea yea yea whatever. Rant all you want. You're just the internet equivalent of the bearded old man on the street corner in every big city staring wide-eyed and spewing spittle about how the world is going to end.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison Last edited by twinstead; 20th February 2008 at 08:41 AM.

20th February 2008, 08:45 AM	#35
pomeroo Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Little Cafe Just the Other Side of the Border Posts: 7,091	Originally Posted by Terral Hi Twinstead: Hold on one minute! Senor Bushie and his inside-job clan were in the ‘conspiracy theorist’ business pushing the “Official Story” long before Richard Gage or Dr. Steven Jones by claiming 9/11 was carried out by a bunch of Bearded Jihadist Radicals like this using boxcutters and whatnot. Twinstead simply stands with Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, etc. in defending the Official Conspiracy Story rather than stand with the experts in the field and their CD explanations told by THE EVIDENCE. Never allow these so-called ‘debunkers’ to pretend ‘they’ are anything but ‘conspiracy theorists’ pointing fingers at people like this with their bold accusations. 911Truthers are ‘also’ in the conspiracy business just like Bush, the DoD, the FBI, the CIA and everyone else truly responsible for carrying out these 9/11 attacks ‘and’ for running the ongoing Cover-Up Operation. Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals give away American Sovereignty by signing the illegal North American Union treaty in March of 2005? No. Bush did that. Did Bearded Jihadist Radicals allow 20 million illegals to run around loose in this once-great-country? No. Twenty-five US citizens are killed EVERY DAY here at home and BUSH is allowing that madness to continue. Bush is the one allowing Ramos and Compean to rot in prison for simply doing their jobs in defending our borders. Are Bearded Jihadist Radicals working behind the scenes to bring in the North American Union NASCO Super-highway? No! Senor Bushie and his newly created ministerial groups are doing all of that behind the scenes to bypass US ports of entry, our unionized longshoremen and truckers to ‘displace’ as many US workers as possible in his constant and unrelenting task of destroying the American Middle Class. That is the reason you have a Department of Homeland Insecurity to place illegal wiretaps on US Citizens ‘and’ 20 million illegal aliens running around loose from sea to shining sea. MANY of you have been DUPED by the Global Imperialist Elites working to bring in their New World Order and simply because Senor Bushie pointed to 19 Bearded Jihadist Radicals and YOU were stupid enough to buy ‘his’ ridiculous ‘conspiracy theory’ based nowhere in reality at all. The USA is imploding upon itself just like WTC-7 and right before your very eyes, but you would rather stand and defend the inside-job bad guys than simply wake the heck up and look at ‘all’ the Controlled Demolition evidence. In that case, you deserve the coming DOOM facing America even as we speak . . . GL, because you need it, Terral You've been caught lying again. American sovereignty has not been "given away." When will you stop lying?