Should Homeopathy be illegal?

[Segnosaur]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower

Produce a fever to kill a fever.
example pervuvian bark aka cinchona bark(quinine) produces same efect as malaria, if yu have malaria and take this(AND FOR GODS SAKE DONT DO IT WITHOUT SEEKING MEDICAL ADVICE FIRST) it will like the malaria "similars"

orthodox medicine kill the sympton not cure it, by blocking nerve signals."opposite"

Actually, this is not correct... While some medicine cures symptoms, other medicine cures the disease itself. For example, antibiotics usually work directly against the bacteria. Antivirals interfeer with with viral replication.

If the homeopathic idea of 'like curing like' worked, can I cure a fractured skull by being hit in the head with a brick?

Quote:

Originally posted by Dub


You claim you've had no help, but what would your life be like if you had taken no modern medicine at all?

No please read. I said I now have no help I cant take any modern pain killer because my body hads beecome addicted to it.

If no modern medicine where would I be, not in so much pain for one.

Me

[arcticpenguin]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower
orthodox medicine kill the sympton not cure it, by blocking nerve signals."opposite"

You are making a very broad generalisation.

To which orthodox medicine are you referring? Vaccines and anti-biotics are not just symptomatic relief. In other cases, suppressing the symptoms can be of great help in limiting damage while the body's immune system takes care of the root cause (fever reduction, cough suppression).

The only requirement for a medicine to be considered orthodox is that it be shown effective in well-controlled experiments.

[RichardR]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower
you treat same with same that cures the whole

Can you please cite your reference that backs this up?

Quote:

Originally posted by Segnosaur


Actually, this is not correct... While some medicine cures symptoms, other medicine cures the disease itself. For example, antibiotics usually work directly against the bacteria. Antivirals interfeer with with viral replication.

If the homeopathic idea of 'like curing like' worked, can I cure a fractured skull by being hit in the head with a brick?

fractures are not an illness thats ludricous and trivial to include it.

work directly against the bacteria..." opposite"
Interfere cause it it to mutate "penicillin and resistance spring to mind"

Me

[Segnosaur]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower


No please read. I said I now have no help I cant take any modern pain killer because my body hads beecome addicted to it.

If no modern medicine where would I be not in so much pain for one.

I'm curious... are you addicted to EVERY type of pain killer? I know many are addictive, and many are related; however, does that include things like Aspirin (ASA), or Tylenol (Acetominophin sp?)

Quote:

Originally posted by RichardR
Can you please cite your reference that backs this up?

works by Dr Hahenmann and homeopathy principles.
(plants that I know and understand)

Me and look and a source named.

[RichardR]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower
Half of all illnesses around are caused by the side effects of modern medicines

Do you have some backup for this claim please?

[Segnosaur]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower

fractures are not an illness thats ludricous and drivel to include it.

work directly against the bacteria..." opposite"
Interfere cause it it to mutate "penicillin and resistance spring to mind"

Sorry, the skull thing was a joke. I should have included a for good measure.

As for 'bacteria'... A bacterial infection can cause feaver, discomfort, perhaps a sore throat (depending on where the problem is). Penicillin (or most other antibiotics) do not try to replicate this effect at all.

And I can't quite make out your grammar, but if you are referring to penicillian resistance in bacteria, it is more of a selection thing than a mutation thing.

Quote:

Originally posted by Segnosaur


I'm curious... are you addicted to EVERY type of pain killer? I know many are addictive, and many are related; however, does that include things like Aspirin (ASA), or Tylenol (Acetominophin sp?)

Yes had prescibed all of them. Growing addiction culture , co dines, paracetamols, anadin, you name it they pumped me full of it.

So yes I am an addicted to them all, I cant take them anymore if I do right back to square 1, which is hell and I have no wish to go there again.

Please excuse me I shall retire to my bed, as it approaches midnight and I turn into a grumpy pumpkin, if you want me to continue debating my corner please type away quesions etc pm me or not goodnight.

Me

[RichardR]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower


works by Dr Hahenmann and homeopathy principles.
(plants that I know and understand)

What trials have been performed that show this is true. I know that Hahenmann claims this, but I am not interested in claims without some backup.

Please tell me where I can read a clinical trial that shows "you treat same with same that cures the whole".

Thanks.

[Segnosaur]

Quote:

Originally posted by RichardR
Do you have some backup for this claim please?

You know, I haven't read that book that she's talking about... but, I strongly suspect that the 50% claim probably has something to do with considering side effects as a new disease.

For example, if you have a headache, you take an aspirin. Aspirin causes slight bleeding in the stomach. Thus, there are 2 diseases (headache and bleeding), one of which was caused by medicine.

Hey, and who said math was hard?

Quote:

Originally posted by RichardR
Do you have some backup for this claim please?

like what be specfic.
Steg its ok, i;m bushed, i type a better responce up tomoz.

me

[RichardR]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower
like what be specfic.
Steg its ok, i;m bushed, i type a better responce up tomoz.

Your claim was “Half of all illnesses around are caused by the side effects of modern medicines”. Can you please tell me where you got this information? I’m assuming you didn’t make it up. So how do you know?

Please cite your source for information like this. Ideally one we can look at on-line. Thanks.

[Jim_MDP]

Hey there Flower,

You said:

"Celebrex for one should be banned for what it does to you, I am sure it is in the States?"


Having taken all I could get recently, I'm very interested in your explanation for this.

[3-toed-sloth]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower


work directly against the bacteria..." opposite"
Interfere cause it it to mutate "penicillin and resistance spring to mind"

Penicillin does not cause mutations in bacteria. Penicillin kills bacteria that do not have resistance genes.

Take a population of bacteria that is composed of 99% bacteria that are susceptible to penicillin and 1% bacteria that are resistant to it. If you introduce penicillin it will kill off the 99% of the bacteria that are susceptible to penicillin, the 1% that are resistant won't die. Over time, the bacteria will multiple and you will have a population where 100% of the bacteria are resistant to penicillin.

The penicillin didn't cause any mutations; it just killed off the bacteria that were susceptible to it.

This is why we need to constantly come up with more antibiotics, by using antibiotics were are favoring bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics, this does not mean that we should not use them. Literally (and I mean literally) millions of people have had their lives saved by antibiotics. I'll take antibiotics over homeopathy any day

Penicillin and other anitbiotics work, homeopathy does not

[Dub]

The only real problem with antibiotics is that alot of people do not finish the course they are given.

Antibiotics work, its people that are less reliable.

[3-toed-sloth]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dub
The only real problem with antibiotics is that alot of people do not finish the course they are given.

Antibiotics work, its people that are less reliable.

That is true, and people use antibiotics incorrectly. I've heard of people taking antibiotics to treat a cold.

Quote:

Originally posted by 3-toed-sloth


That is true, and people use antibiotics incorrectly. I've heard of people taking antibiotics to treat a cold.

I have heard of some idiots that have done this myself. The bad thing is they could create antibiotic resistant bacteria in their body and well, meningitis kicks in and you will most likely die.

[Dragon]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower
Nurofem otc headache pill, take it more than 3 days and your an addict. Coming off that is far worse than going cold turkey on heroin.

I'm sorry, r-s, but you are talking total nonsense here.
My personal experience -
About three years ago I was in severe pain from prolapsed discs. I had sciatica down my leg which was the worst pain I have ever experienced, much worse than breaking a collar bone, for instance.
Before it was properly diagnosed I was taking ibuprofen (I assume that you mean Nurofen above) for over a week and then my GP put me on diclofenac, solpadol and temazepam (Valium). The first two are very strong pain killers and the third a muscle relaxant as well as a sedative. I took the full dose of all 3 for a week and reduced over the next month as I improved.
I am not addicted in any way to any of these drugs.
They helped me through a very difficult time and I would not hesitate to take them again if necessary.

I have seen heroin addicts in the first stages of cold turkey many times in police cells (co-incidentally the most they get is temazepam). These people are really suffering.

When you compare Nurofen/ibuprofen to Heroin you obviously haven't the first clue about these drugs and their effects on the human body.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Anyone want to invest in my new company to produce a homeopathic cure for dehydration? [stolen from someone on this forum]

Did you hear about the homeopathic patient who died of an overdose? ... He forgot to take the medicine.

~~ Paul

[Dragon]

Back on topic -

Should homeopathy be made illegal?
No.

Should homepathic remedies be subject to the same rules* as conventional medicines?
Of course - and so should all other alternative medicines and treatments.

*In particular the bit about "efficacy".

[RichardR]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragon
Back on topic -

Should homeopathy be made illegal?
No.

Should homepathic remedies be subject to the same rules* as conventional medicines?
Of course - and so should all other alternative medicines and treatments.

*In particular the bit about "efficacy".

Sure. If it works so well, why wouldn’t its proponents be willing to have it teated?

[Ralph]

Dragon......drugs like diclofenac & ibuprofen belong to a class of drugs known as NSAIDS (non-steroidal-anti-inflammatories).
These & other common pain killers such asa & acetaminophen
will only relieve pain to a certain degree. You reach a threshhold level at which point taking higher doses does not produce any more pain relief. They are useful for relief of mild to moderate pain but are not generally usefull for severe pain. They are NOT addicting and it's generally safe for recovering addicts to use them without triggering a relapse.

If pain levels are severe you generally need to use opiate-derived narcotics.....Demerol,codeine,hydrocodone, or morphine are the usual choices. They are addicting though--you'll get a buzz from them and in an addict it can trigger a relapse.

Temazapam is a benzodiazepam. It's considered habit forming (though not to the degree narcotics are) and should be avoided by recovering addicts.........................Ralph

[Dragon]

Ralph,
Yes, I knew most of that (I think Solpadol contains some codeine).
The temezepam the addicts get is just to get them through the night - they might get methadone if they already have some prescribed by their own doctor.
Most of the addicts I see are not recovering but still committing crime to fund the habit.

[Jim_MDP]

Hey Dragon, isn't Sciatica AMAZING?

I have a ruptured L5 and the L3 and L4 right above are "bulged". I know the cause is in my Lumbar but, almost all the horrendous, firey pain is in the calf and foot.

And btw, I prefer Vicodin. I also have codeine but I don't like the fuzzy "no pain" experience. I prefer to just knock the pain down a notch or two, otherwise I might move the wrong way and re-injure myself.

Also, I'm lucky to not be an addictive personality. I use much less than prescribed and have never desired a buzz from my legal meds. But I know many among my family and friends who could never say the same. Very sad.

I guess we'll have to wait till tomorrow for Flower's return. I'm curious about her Celebrex statement.

[Dragon]

James,
"Amazing" isn't the first thing that comes to mind - "****** agony" and "career threatening" were more prominent at the time I was struck down.
I'm with you, though, on several points. I lost a cousin to drugs.
I too had L5,L4 and L3 go, with most of the pain down my left thigh.
Physio and exercise helped me to an (almost) full recovery and I've hardly touched the drugs for over 2 years.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragon


I'm sorry, r-s, but you are talking total nonsense here.
My personal experience -
About three years ago I was in severe pain from prolapsed discs. I had sciatica down my leg which was the worst pain I have ever experienced, much worse than breaking a collar bone, for instance.
Before it was properly diagnosed I was taking ibuprofen (I assume that you mean Nurofen above) for over a week and then my GP put me on diclofenac, solpadol and temazepam (Valium). The first two are very strong pain killers and the third a muscle relaxant as well as a sedative. I took the full dose of all 3 for a week and reduced over the next month as I improved.
I am not addicted in any way to any of these drugs.
They helped me through a very difficult time and I would not hesitate to take them again if necessary.

I have seen heroin addicts in the first stages of cold turkey many times in police cells (co-incidentally the most they get is temazepam). These people are really suffering.

When you compare Nurofen/ibuprofen to Heroin you obviously haven't the first clue about these drugs and their effects on the human body.

Sorry dragon but you appear to know even less than I do.

To rid yourself of say nurofen (example) it takes longer to get out of your system thtn heroin( might be another drug I am checking my hardrives data for the support)
Sciatica I know that hurts like hell, but and a big but on a score of 1 -10 1 being high pain I am at level 3 permanently no respite 24/7 I live with this, having hit level 1 and 2 frequently which is debilitaing you cant imagine how I have to cope with that, and I do, pain controls my life that I accept and work around, ok I might have a higher pain thresh hold than most and I have got a high pain thresh hold believe me, i know what I am talking about, from experience. Have you ever been to the pain clinic lectures and the speil they churn out, I have thats when I got cynical and started learning about other alternatives. Ok first to admit no i am not a scientist nor doI have any medical training, what i do have is invaluable experiencing the effects modern medicines do.

Addictive personality has nothing to do with dependence on OTC drugs that is ludricous( not to dragon)



so watch this space I' ll be back.

Me and hardrive plus data of article on OTC addiction

[richardm]

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower

Can you argue that modern medicne is not diluted as well, beacuse it is.

But it's a question of degree, r-s. If I wander to my medicine cabinet, I find a packet of tablets. Each of those contains 10mg of the active ingredient. That is a measurable amount of medicine. Like homeopathic remedies, it is probably mixed with a chalk or sugar base to make it a large enough to easily handle.

In my tablet, I have 0.01 grams of active ingredient. In a 30c homeopathic tablet I would have 0.00 grams of active ingredient.

The homeopathic dilutions are taken to such an excessive extent that they become ridiculous. You saw Horizon on Tuesday? Remember the single drop in a swimming pool? The single drop in the ocean? They weren't joking - you might not be able to follow the mathematics, but the numbers are more or less correct.

Before you even start testing, that ought to indicate to you that it is very unlikely that the stuff can work. The testing (when done with proper controls) only confirms that it does not work.

[Lothian]

I would just like to make a couple of points.

As I understand it Homeopathic medicine does not currently exist and it therefore cannot be advertised.

A medicine is something that cures. To be called a medicine a drug has to undergo years of proper scientific testing.
Homeopathic 'remedies' do not undergo this process. They are not medicines and anyone can sell them.

They should not be banned, the palcebo effect is powerful. Anyway if you ban homeopathic remedies what is next Evian, Perrier ?

Richardm try it from another angle how would you clinically trial the feel good factor and how it works? Let alone explain it?

Then how would you clinicaly trial the patients who found themselves taking homeopathic remedies and found it "helped" them? how would that be explained?

Could you tell a person who has exhausted all modern medicines tough you cant have homeopathy deal with it, as that is what you are advocating.

A peice of paper does not help a person in need, soemthing they belive in does, and you cant clincally trial that.

You could also ask yourself why are modern pharmicuticals so insistent on rubbishing any other form of healing?

Then again ask why is talc powder used in some pills?


The end of the day yes homeopathy is diluted, nobody disputes that. At the end is a person who needs relief and if homeopathy provides it how can you advocate hey that right its free choice to do so, and I also believe it removes the poisioning from modern chemical additions to presribed medicines, or at least allows the body to remove it, and so improves that persons health.

I didnt see the Horizon program, but have seem similiar staged trials before. One test does not advocate faliure or does it infer all subsequent products are the same, if that was the case modern medicines like Taxol which are plant based(yew and that in itself is diluted as Yew is toxic gotta love those toxic plants) would never have been developed or any plant based medicine.

Hippocrates first inferred that there are 2 ways to heal the body, 1st is by opposites and the 2nd by similars, homeopathy heals by similiars, modern by opposites.

Me showing knowledge of history..scary

[xouper]

Quote:

Originally posted by Lothian
As I understand it Homeopathic medicine does not currently exist and it therefore cannot be advertised. A medicine is something that cures. To be called a medicine a drug has to undergo years of proper scientific testing. Homeopathic 'remedies' do not undergo this process. They are not medicines and anyone can sell them.

If by "homeopathic medicine" you mean "homeopathic drug" as defined by the U.S Federal Drug Administration, then homeopathic drugs do indeed exist.

FDA Compliance Policy Guide (CPG 7132.15) Conditions Under Which Homeopathic Drugs May be Marketed

Nonetheless, homeopathic drugs are still bunk.

Imagine the scene if you would. A patient describes what is bothering them, the doctor listens after examining the area diagnosis’s gallstone, sorry he explains there is along waiting list in the meantime take these to help with the pain, he hands over a prescription for pethidine. Off the patient goes relieved at gaining some help from the pain, little realising that their life is about to change dramatically. This patient is about to become a drug addict with a dependency for legal drugs just another growing statistic Pethidine a class A drug, highly addictive and one of the many opiate legally prescribed drugs.

The Patient continues to take the drugs for 18 months at the prescribed limit, suddenly people are commenting on how their personality has changed, how suddenly they have become insecure withdrawn moody even, back they go to the doctor he continues to give the Pethidine and now they gets an antidepressant "to get them throug".
Still none the wiser that they are a drug addict and it is the pills and there side effects that are making them feel that way. 6 months later they collapse their body has gone into shock as the drugs have taken their toll, they have now reached the bodies “tolerance level ”of the opiate, it had stopped working, and to counteract this upped the dosage to get the same relief, the body couldn’t take it anymore and started to react against it.

The doctor now has stopped prescribing it to them, but this was the start of an 8 year battle to try and beat their addiction, during that time Vallium, Tamazpam were all prescribed "to get them through", adding their own toll now drug addicted body, now visits from psychiatric nurses and psychiatrists are included, as the toll of each prescribed pill "to get them through" sent finally sent them over the edge and into suicidal feelings and depression so now a black life held no meaning anymore and now sucide is the only way out to stop the pain.

What happens in the end, like an alcoholic you cant take any medication without slipping back down into drug dependency, your already hooked the moment it re enters your system.


Question anyone take the following? Solpadine, syndol, feminax, co-codamol, nurofen plus, Sudafed, do do chesteze, nytol, codeine linctus, J collis brownes mixture? These are the top 10 most abused otc drugs, your already addicted the within 3 days of continuous use.
Any of you take the following, Diazepam,(Vallium) belonging to the group called benzodiazpines aka benzos which act like tranquillisers or sedatives, Tamazpam a benzoiazepine and sleeping pill, ,Rohypnol aka date rate drug, lorazepam aka Ativan a benzodiazpines, Dihydrocodeine A high strength codeine based painkiller, Alprazolam aka xanex a benzodiazepine, Co-proximal An opioid painkiller, Dalmane aka fluazepam sleeping pill, Nitrazepam aka mogadon a benzodiazepine, Seconal aka red or downer, a barbiturate?



Do you have a problem?
1~Have you been taking your OTC (over the counter) in excess of 7 days continuously without seeing a doctor?
2~Does your medication seem to be less effective? If so are you taking more that what is prescribed to be taken and more frequently than that of the 4 hour intervals?
3~If your original complaint has cleared up are you continuing to take the drug because it makes you feel calm and “normal”
4~ have you suffered or are you currently suffering from anxiety, depression, or stress, So you have a family history of drug and or alcohol abuse?
If you have answered truthfully yes to at least 2-3 of these questions you may have developed a dependency on prescribed or otc drugs.

Did you know when an addict takes heroin about half of it gets converted in the brain to morphine, and taking a codeine tablet 10% of it converts to morphine, if you pop 8 tablets of codeine a day your taking in as much a someone shooting heroin in the arm a day.
To detox a heroin addict it takes around 5 days, It takes 2 to 4 weeks for the same or longer for codeine and Vallium takers.
Solpadeine after taking 15 pills you are already craving the next hit, that soon can amount to a 40 a day habit on OTC legal drugs. Not all addicts are of the illegal kind now are they, and the next time you call somebody a junkie think that you may just be like them already, it is not down to an addictive personality often attributed with illegal substances, these new addicts runof the mill taking drugs their trusted doctors perscribe, or their local chemist.

Ask yourself this have you seen a warning on the side of Solphadine saying warning you that it is addicive? Answer is NO but it is.

Modern medicines cause more illnesses, or you could say that the side effects do.
Think this article hi lights it very well.

Me using article gleemed from previous research I was looking up for me as in my personal interest.

[Lothian]

Quote:

Originally posted by xouper
If by "homeopathic medicine" you mean "homeopathic drug" as defined by the U.S Federal Drug Administration, then homeopathic drugs do indeed exist.

FDA Compliance Policy Guide (CPG 7132.15) Conditions Under Which Homeopathic Drugs May be Marketed

Nonetheless, homeopathic drugs are still bunk.

Xouper,

Damn, don’t you just hate it when your bluff is called.

OK. I am wrong.
In the UK medicines are licenced by this lot

There are ‘homeopathic medicines’ which are registered under European Directive 92/73.

However

Quote:

legislation for homoeopathic medicines
In order to qualify for registration the products must:
· be for oral or external use. This includes all methods of administration with the exception of injections;
· be sufficiently dilute to guarantee their safety;
· make no therapeutic claims

I will repeat that

Quote:

legislation for homoeopathic medicines
In order to qualify for registration the products must:
· be for oral or external use. This includes all methods of administration with the exception of injections;
· be sufficiently dilute to guarantee their safety;
· make no therapeutic claims

Celebrex New York times did an article on it, and the Lancet Iam still digging my data for it.

celebrex is a nasty drug not a wonder drug, I know it causes internal bleeding, burst bowels, heart failure, jaunicine, will edit when i find the full piece i have on it.

Quote:

->"FDA agreed with its Advisory Committee recommendations of February 7, 2001 that CLASS did not show a safety advantage in upper gastrointestinal (GI) events for Celebrex compared to either ibuprofen or diclofenac. Inclusion of patients on low-dose aspirin in the study was valuable for safety assessment of Celebrex in this important population of arthritis sufferers. However, the use of aspirin (a drug known to cause stomach ulcers and bleeding) may have obscured the ability to accurately compare the GI safety of Celebrex to other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. The agency concluded that the drug labeling for Celebrex should continue to include the standard warning for doctors and their patients about risks associated with all NSAIDS, including risks of GI ulceration, bleeding and perforation. The labeling advises physicians prescribing and patients taking these drugs to be alert for ulceration and bleeding that can occur with or without warning.",-

Note (") as in quoted from first line Newyork times, and me

Quote:

To detox a heroin addict it takes around 5 days, It takes 2 to 4 weeks for the same or longer for codeine and Vallium [ takers.

Ok dragon I made an error apologise for it i knew it was one of the drugs, and its codine not nurofen got the rest right at least.

Me

[richardm]

Hi r-s

Quote:

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower
Richardm try it from another angle how would you clinically trial the feel good factor and how it works? Let alone explain it?

Well, just because something makes you feel good doesn't mean you're not being ripped off. Suppose for a moment that you had no sense of smell. I sell you a large bottle of Chanel #5 for £100. You can't smell the perfume, but you know that it's an expensive and well-respected brand, and you're happy going out wearing it. You feel good! Except you don't know that all I sold you was cold tea in a Chanel bottle.

You don't know that. You feel great about it! Would you say that just because you don't know what I've done, it is an acceptable thing for me to do?

Quote:

Then how would you clinicaly trial the patients who found themselves taking homeopathic remedies and found it "helped" them? how would that be explained?

"Placebo". Seriously.

Quote:

Could you tell a person who has exhausted all modern medicines tough you cant have homeopathy deal with it, as that is what you are advocating.

It's a difficult one. However, at the bottom line this is like saying "If people are sufficiently desperate, they'll try anything, no matter what. Should we allow them to do this?".

Well, yes, I suppose we should. But at the same time, I think we should advise them that what they are trying is very likely to be an expensive waste of time.

Not only that, but I don't think that manufacturers should be able to convince these desperate people that they have something to offer that will help, when they are saying so on the flimsiest of evidence. I think that if you say "If you take x number of our pills it will cure what ails you", then you should have to prove it before you say so. Like drug manufacturers have to.

Quote:

A peice of paper does not help a person in need, soemthing they belive in does, and you cant clincally trial that.

Actually, you can, and it has been done. You'll find lots of references to experiments where prayer, for example, has been trialled.

Quote:

You could also ask yourself why are modern pharmicuticals so insistent on rubbishing any other form of healing?

If the modern pharmacutical industry thought that it could make money out of homeopathic remedies, don't you think it would? (Some of them possibly do!). In fact, I can't remember such a company ever rubbishing other forms of healing.

Quote:

Then again ask why is talc powder used in some pills?

As I said above, the active ingredient in many pills isn't always very large - 10 mg for my example, although I also have some 500mg (half a gram!) paracetamol. So the talc is there to bulk up the pill to make it a manageable size.

Quote:

The end of the day yes homeopathy is diluted, nobody disputes that. At the end is a person who needs relief and if homeopathy provides it how can you advocate dey that right its free choice to do so,

Don't people also have a right to be protected from frauds and rip-offs? Don't you have the right to expect that things you are sold should work as advertised?

Quote:

Hippocrates first inferred that ther are 2 ways to heal the body, 1st is by opposites and the 2nd by similars, homeopathy heals by similiars, modern by opposites.

Hippocrates also believed that a woman’s flesh was warmer and softer than that of a man, and that its spongy character allowed it to absorb excess blood to the point of pain. Menstruation permitted the surplus to dissipate.

Hippocrates was writing 2380 years ago. He couldn't be right about everything.



(Edited (Twice!) to fix formatting)

[Dragon]

Originally posted by radiating-sunflower


Sorry dragon but you apear to know even less than I do.

To rid yourslef of say nurofen (example) it takes longer to get out of your system thtn heroin( might be another drug I am checking my hardrives data for the support)

Take your time, but I would like to see the evidence.

Sciatica I know that hurts like hell, but and a big but on a score of 1 -10 1 being high pain I am at level 3 permanently no respite 24/7 I live with this, having hit level 1 and 2 frequently which is debilitaing you cant imagine how I have to cope with that, and I do, pain controls my life that I accept and work around, ok I might have a higher pain thresh hold than most and I have got a high pain thresh hold believe me, i know what I am talking about, from experience. Have you ever been to the pain clinic lectures and the speil they churn out, I have thats when I got cynical and started learning about other alternatives. Ok first to admit no i am not a scientist nor doI have any medical training, what i do have is invaluable experiencing the effects modern medicines do.

I would be silly to get into a "who has had the worst pain" argument. I accept that your experience of pain is worse than mine.

Addictive personality has nothing to do with dependence on OTC drugs that is ludricous( not to dragon)
so watch this space I' ll be back.

You made the comparison between an OTC (Nurofen) and heroin.
You also said -

Quote:

Nurofem otc headache pill, take it more than 3 days and your an addict.

I say that you are talking rubbish and I drew on my personal experience to back up what I was saying. In particular - I have taken ibuprofen for over a week, and stronger NSAIDS for an extended period- I am not addicted to any of them.
Heroin is stronger even than morphine and highly addictive. This is so well documented that there must be thousands of links on the net.
Here's what MedTerms.com says -

Quote:

Heroin: Semisynthetic drug derived from morphine. Discovered in 1874, it was introduced commercially in 1898 by the Bayer company in Germany. The name heroin was coined from the German heroisch meaning heroic, strong. Heroin is stronger (more potent) than morphine.

Morphine: A venerable drug that is a naturally occurring member of a large chemical class of compounds called alkaloids. The name "morphine" was coined in 1805 by a German apothecary Adolf Serturner (1783-1841) to designate the main alkaloid in opium. Opium, of course, comes from the poppy plant.

Morphine is a powerful narcotic agent with strong analgesic (pain relief) action and other significant effects on the central nervous system. It is dangerously addicting. The name "morphine" refers to Morpheus, the mythologic god of dreams.

I await your post on the addictive nature of ibuprofen.

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
Hi r-s
Don't people also have a right to be protected from frauds and rip-offs? Don't you have the right to expect that things you are sold should work as advertised?

Hey u back

If that was the case i would be a wealthy woman, I would have sued codine etc manufacturers.

Come on not really in the same context, we live in rip off britain for one, nothing works(ahem MR gates) as such it either muddles through, disgusies it.

What should be protected is that should more information be available and more medical help and more qualifed people to give support .

Yes there are schemers out there they should be smacked and sent to bed with no tea but, homeopathy works for a lot of people regulate the industry, learn about it and study it to find out why it helps people would be a far better road to take than no its water ban it that only serves to cause detrimental effect those in need. This is one thing you cant dismiss it is one of those feel good things how can you measure or assess that?

Me

Dragon I said I made a mistake its codine/heroin and not nurofen above already.


NO I wont go into a mine worse than yours either, for 1 its pointless 2 thresholds to pain vary in people, 3 I' ll kick your shins in

You cannot dismiss my experience and then use your own to back up with. sorry dragon my experience i will use as i have been there, same as anybody elses.

YOU cant stand there and say rubbish to mine but in your experience , no sorry, I am going to be pendantic on that front.

I will get back to the rest. my data is huge and vast, and still trawling through it all.

OTC drugs are addictive and is the latest growing one to.


Me