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arcticpenguin · 29th September 2003, 01:22 PM

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html

Quote:

A DANISH academic has sparked an uproar by calling for state measures to encourage childbearing among intelligent people but to dissuade those with low intellectual ability, to create what he called a better Danish society.

Helmuth Nyborg, a well-known psychology professor at the University of Aarhus who specialises in intelligence research, said it was time to "abandon the politically correct" and to practice selection in order to "improve the coming generations and avoid degenerates in the population", in comments this weekend that have been widely reported on national television and the country's main newspapers.
...
Nyborg suggested that highly educated women could have their workloads reduced while less intelligent parents could be paid to not have children.
...
Nyborg claimed intelligence was hereditary, and said it was "unfortunate and worrying if parents of lower intelligence bring more children into the world, as is the case today in Denmark, than highly intelligent parents".

How is this going over with our Danish posters? At least he's not talking about forced sterilization.

CFLarsen · 29th September 2003, 01:54 PM

He's getting plenty of flack from everyone, e.g. from one of Skeptica's members who also is the chairman of the Ethics Committee, Ole Hartling.

Nyborg tries to argue that intelligence can be used as a parameter without actually having to define what intelligence is. "Just like gravity", as he says.

Anyone want to point out the fallacy of that argument?

NoZed Avenger · 29th September 2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

How is this going over with our Danish posters? At least he's not talking about forced sterilization.

. . . yet.

arcticpenguin · 29th September 2003, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CFLarsen
He's getting plenty of flack from everyone, e.g. from one of Skeptica's members who also is the chairman of the Ethics Committee, Ole Hartling.

Nyborg tries to argue that intelligence can be used as a parameter without actually having to define what intelligence is. "Just like gravity", as he says.

Anyone want to point out the fallacy of that argument?

OK, I'll take "easy shots" for 10 points. Gravity can be measured consistently.

Prospero · 30th September 2003, 06:36 PM

See, this is what happens when you let neuroscientists (I use that term very broadly in this case, simply because he studies intelligence which technically falls under this category) play at being geneticists. His idea could pretend to sound like it has merit, but Silicon Valley represents the best example imaginable of why smart people should not interbreed.

Wired magazine did an article about a year ago on the alarmingly dramatic increase of the number of children born with Asperger's Syndrome in Silicon Valley. The suspected reason is this: Silicon Valley represents the intellectual hub of the computer hardware manufacturing world. So, all those computer manufacturing companies brought all these really intelligent people together into one place where they all interbred for about a decade.

However, as the intellectuals settled down and had children, a startling number had Asperger's which is best described as a mild form of Autism. Psychologists did an investigation and came to the conclusion that intelligence, which is certainly genetic in part, happens to also be unstable as far as genetics go. In other words, there is a very fine line between brilliance and madness as history loves to demonstrate in prodigies of all kinds. The sudden pooling of the unstable genes resulting in more becoming off-balance than would be possible in a population where there is wide genetic variability.

This is why eugenics, which on the surface appears to possibly have merits, in actuality tends come back to bite you in the bum. It would definitely be a bad idea to condemn a country to an entire generation born with mental disorders, in my humble opinion.

Chaos · 1st October 2003, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CFLarsen
He's getting plenty of flack from everyone, e.g. from one of Skeptica's members who also is the chairman of the Ethics Committee, Ole Hartling.

Nyborg tries to argue that intelligence can be used as a parameter without actually having to define what intelligence is. "Just like gravity", as he says.

Anyone want to point out the fallacy of that argument?

I guess that to use intelligence as a parameter, i.e. measure peoples´ IQ, you first have to design tests for that. In designing tests, you have to define what to test, i.e. what intelligence is.

29th September 2003, 01:22 PM	#1
arcticpenguin woo ban clan Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,717	Nyborg's eugenics http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html Quote: A DANISH academic has sparked an uproar by calling for state measures to encourage childbearing among intelligent people but to dissuade those with low intellectual ability, to create what he called a better Danish society. Helmuth Nyborg, a well-known psychology professor at the University of Aarhus who specialises in intelligence research, said it was time to "abandon the politically correct" and to practice selection in order to "improve the coming generations and avoid degenerates in the population", in comments this weekend that have been widely reported on national television and the country's main newspapers. ... Nyborg suggested that highly educated women could have their workloads reduced while less intelligent parents could be paid to not have children. ... Nyborg claimed intelligence was hereditary, and said it was "unfortunate and worrying if parents of lower intelligence bring more children into the world, as is the case today in Denmark, than highly intelligent parents". How is this going over with our Danish posters? At least he's not talking about forced sterilization.
	__________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. - George Bernard Shaw

29th September 2003, 01:54 PM	#2
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	He's getting plenty of flack from everyone, e.g. from one of Skeptica's members who also is the chairman of the Ethics Committee, Ole Hartling. Nyborg tries to argue that intelligence can be used as a parameter without actually having to define what intelligence is. "Just like gravity", as he says. Anyone want to point out the fallacy of that argument?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

29th September 2003, 02:04 PM	#4
arcticpenguin woo ban clan Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,717	Quote: Originally posted by CFLarsen He's getting plenty of flack from everyone, e.g. from one of Skeptica's members who also is the chairman of the Ethics Committee, Ole Hartling. Nyborg tries to argue that intelligence can be used as a parameter without actually having to define what intelligence is. "Just like gravity", as he says. Anyone want to point out the fallacy of that argument? OK, I'll take "easy shots" for 10 points. Gravity can be measured consistently.
	__________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. - George Bernard Shaw

30th September 2003, 06:36 PM	#5
Prospero Thinker Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 176	Problem with Eugenics See, this is what happens when you let neuroscientists (I use that term very broadly in this case, simply because he studies intelligence which technically falls under this category) play at being geneticists. His idea could pretend to sound like it has merit, but Silicon Valley represents the best example imaginable of why smart people should not interbreed. Wired magazine did an article about a year ago on the alarmingly dramatic increase of the number of children born with Asperger's Syndrome in Silicon Valley. The suspected reason is this: Silicon Valley represents the intellectual hub of the computer hardware manufacturing world. So, all those computer manufacturing companies brought all these really intelligent people together into one place where they all interbred for about a decade. However, as the intellectuals settled down and had children, a startling number had Asperger's which is best described as a mild form of Autism. Psychologists did an investigation and came to the conclusion that intelligence, which is certainly genetic in part, happens to also be unstable as far as genetics go. In other words, there is a very fine line between brilliance and madness as history loves to demonstrate in prodigies of all kinds. The sudden pooling of the unstable genes resulting in more becoming off-balance than would be possible in a population where there is wide genetic variability. This is why eugenics, which on the surface appears to possibly have merits, in actuality tends come back to bite you in the bum. It would definitely be a bad idea to condemn a country to an entire generation born with mental disorders, in my humble opinion.
Prospero Thinker Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 176	__________________ Life is a comedy to those who think and a tragedy to those who feel.

1st October 2003, 02:11 AM	#6
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,811	Quote: Originally posted by CFLarsen He's getting plenty of flack from everyone, e.g. from one of Skeptica's members who also is the chairman of the Ethics Committee, Ole Hartling. Nyborg tries to argue that intelligence can be used as a parameter without actually having to define what intelligence is. "Just like gravity", as he says. Anyone want to point out the fallacy of that argument? I guess that to use intelligence as a parameter, i.e. measure peoples´ IQ, you first have to design tests for that. In designing tests, you have to define what to test, i.e. what intelligence is.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

29th September 2003, 01:55 PM	#3
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 11,313	Quote: How is this going over with our Danish posters? At least he's not talking about forced sterilization. . . . yet.