Does surgery to remove snoring work?

steverino · 3rd March 2008, 11:25 PM

i have "this friend"

who snores a lot and his girlfriend says he does not seem to have sleep apnea, but still snores really loud, almost every night. They just moved in together, so it is more disruptive. He tried anti-snore pills, and the nosed bandage, with mixed results. I asked my dentist today if operations work, and he said they work just half the time, and it's not worth the bother. Has anyone here tried the surgery?

Thanks.

Soapy Sam · 4th March 2008, 01:46 AM

I'd guess it depends on how much of the head they remove?

a_unique_person · 4th March 2008, 02:04 AM

I used to have that problem, but now my friends wife snores as well. There seems to be some phase cancelling/symmetrical absorption effect now. Except that her snoring wakes here up.

I have heard the surgery is not very effective in most cases, but is quite painful.

Cuddles · 4th March 2008, 04:10 AM

It can work. It depends on the details of the case. If you want to know more, an appointment with an ENT surgeon would be a lot more helpful than asking a dentist.

aggle-rithm · 4th March 2008, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

his girlfriend says he does not seem to have sleep apnea,

Well, lucky "his" girlfriend is a qualified physician...

Dancing David · 4th March 2008, 04:19 AM

Your friend should consider a sleep evaluation, are they fatigued and often tired?

aggle-rithm · 4th March 2008, 04:20 AM

My wife used to solve my snoring by repeatedly nudging me awake. If I'm not asleep, I can't snore.

That ended when I got a C-PAP machine.

casebro · 4th March 2008, 06:26 AM

There are forums specific to sleep disturbances. Read about other peoples difficulties with treatments.

CPAP machine fix those problems more surely than surgery, and some surgeries go too far and cause other probs, like swallowing difficulties. And sssooooo many surgeries don't seem to fix the problem either.

Weight loss might help, like anybody can actually lose weight and keep it off...

Whiplash · 4th March 2008, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

My wife used to solve my snoring by repeatedly nudging me awake. If I'm not asleep, I can't snore.

My uncle and his wife have had huge fights about this, and it has always intrigued me, and would make me personally very angry as well.

Fortunately, it hasn't been a problem for me because I do not snore (or at least not enough that it ever bothered any of my partners). But if someone did that to me even once, I'd be pretty upset.

It's not your fault you are snoring, and while I understand it can be very frustrating to try to sleep with that kind of noise, I think this is going over the line, especially in the case of my Uncle who's wife will elbow him in the ribs hard enough to not only wake him up but to do so very painfully and leave him in pain for a little while after.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's very frustrating. But elbowing someone in the ribs all night is just going over the line. I'd say it was being selfish even. I'd consider sleeping in seperate rooms before abusing someone like that.

I did see a show on the Discovery Health Channel not long ago about some new procedure being done in Massachusetts (IIRC) that was supposed to be very effective. It had something to do with inserting long rods into the upper palette or something. Didn't look pleasant at all, but if it works, it may help save some marriages. If this type of procedure is already known and debunked here, my apologies.

aggle-rithm · 4th March 2008, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by casebro

Weight loss might help, like anybody can actually lose weight and keep it off...

Especially when they're sleep deprived.

Dr. Imago · 4th March 2008, 07:29 AM

Casebro is correct. Weight loss is the first option.

Surgery is the last.

-Dr. Imago

fuelair · 4th March 2008, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

I used to have that problem, but now my friends wife snores as well. There seems to be some phase cancelling/symmetrical absorption effect now. Except that her snoring wakes here up.

I have heard the surgery is not very effective in most cases, but is quite painful.

Pretty much what I have heard also. Only good (surgery) for one or two of the overall causes of snoring at best.

steverino · 4th March 2008, 07:32 AM

Thanks Whiplash, and the others here who are commenting. I realize I should get tested, but I am kind of curious if anyone here has jumped in and given the surgery a try, and what the experience has been like.

I once bought a battery-powered (E-Bike) bicycle that was to go 18 mph for an hour. But it turned out that was with no friction. Like in my apartment if I lifted the rear wheel, it would spin about an hour at that speed. But if you asked me how it really worked outside, it went about 12 mph for half hour and with each ride the battery weakened and it was hard to find replacement parts, etc.

fuelair · 4th March 2008, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Whiplash

My uncle and his wife have had huge fights about this, and it has always intrigued me, and would make me personally very angry as well.

Fortunately, it hasn't been a problem for me because I do not snore (or at least not enough that it ever bothered any of my partners). But if someone did that to me even once, I'd be pretty upset.

It's not your fault you are snoring, and while I understand it can be very frustrating to try to sleep with that kind of noise, I think this is going over the line, especially in the case of my Uncle who's wife will elbow him in the ribs hard enough to not only wake him up but to do so very painfully and leave him in pain for a little while after.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's very frustrating. But elbowing someone in the ribs all night is just going over the line. I'd say it was being selfish even. I'd consider sleeping in seperate rooms before abusing someone like that.

I did see a show on the Discovery Health Channel not long ago about some new procedure being done in Massachusetts (IIRC) that was supposed to be very effective. It had something to do with inserting long rods into the upper palette or something. Didn't look pleasant at all, but if it works, it may help save some marriages. If this type of procedure is already known and debunked here, my apologies.

I, on the other hand, told my wife to wake me if I was - remember the snoring can be bad for your health.

Mongrel · 4th March 2008, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Whiplash

I did see a show on the Discovery Health Channel not long ago about some new procedure being done in Massachusetts (IIRC) that was supposed to be very effective. It had something to do with inserting long rods into the upper palette or something. Didn't look pleasant at all, but if it works, it may help save some marriages. If this type of procedure is already known and debunked here, my apologies.

An ex-member had that procedure and reported good results (here).

Googling 'Pillar Procedure' picks up some good results from, what appear to be, sensible places

Daisy · 4th March 2008, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Imago

Casebro is correct. Weight loss is the first option.

Surgery is the last.

-Dr. Imago

CPAP machine can help with the weight loss. The extreme fatigue and brain fog caused by sleep apnea is debilitating. It's not sexy (picture space alien), but it's sexier than snoring and keeping your bedmate awake.

steverino · 4th March 2008, 08:00 AM

OMG! I don't think I could deal with this for the rest of my life.

Looks like the end of spontaneous sex forever, at least at night, vs. my girlfriend's current logic of "If I give my annoyingly loud-snoring boyfriend sex tonight maybe he will sleep well and not snore so God-Da__ much!

aggle-rithm · 4th March 2008, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

OMG! I don't think I could deal with this for the rest of my life.

Looks like the end of spontaneous sex forever, at least at night, vs. my girlfriend's current logic of "If I give my annoyingly loud-snoring boyfriend sex tonight maybe he will sleep well and not snore so God-Da__ much!

At least you have an excuse not to talk. You can go right to sleep.

Of course, that doesn't stop HER from talking.

rwguinn · 4th March 2008, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

OMG! I don't think I could deal with this for the rest of my life.

Looks like the end of spontaneous sex forever, at least at night, vs. my girlfriend's current logic of "If I give my annoyingly loud-snoring boyfriend sex tonight maybe he will sleep well and not snore so God-Da__ much!

Not hardly.

I don't use full face, and they have lots of smaller ones.
they yank off in a hury, and you don't put it on till you are definitely gonna go to sleep...
Check here (You can read, but have to register to post, but it is free and non-invasive...)
Lots of help there.
Apnia cannot always be diagnosed by listening. It takes a sleep study.
My wife said I "occasionally stopped" breathing for short periods at night.
"Occasionally" turned out to be 54 times per hour.

Apnia may be improved by weight loss, but there are people who are everything from grossly obese to near anorexic with the problem, and from couch potatoes to 50 mile/week runners...

steverino · 4th March 2008, 09:48 AM

So instead of, "Honey, let's light some candles and break out the massage oil,"

my love-life will become, "Honey, let's break out the big bag of peanuts...and vote for Huckabee."

steverino · 4th March 2008, 09:51 AM

um...

rwguinn · 4th March 2008, 10:05 AM

While the images and comments are indeed funny,the condition is absolutely not funny. I enjoy a laugh about it myself, but if you are trying to help someone out, belittling the condition is not funny.
Well--Ok, it's as funny as a Heart Attack.

Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means.

Elvis666 · 4th March 2008, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

While the images and comments are indeed funny,the condition is absolutely not funny. I enjoy a laugh about it myself, but if you are trying to help someone out, belittling the condition is not funny.
Well--Ok, it's as funny as a Heart Attack.

Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means.

Of course, you're right, but my wife started with the elephant jokes from the first night I had one.

By the way, all of the pictures shown thus far are still much more obtrusive than the headpiece I use. It is just a slightly larger version of the oxgyen cannulas (cannuli?) used in hospitals. The straps that hold it in place are very soft and comfortable and I can now sleep for seven hours (or more) without ever waking up.

And if the mood strikes, it comes off in less than a second!

steverino · 4th March 2008, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

While the images and comments are indeed funny,the condition is absolutely not funny. I enjoy a laugh about it myself, but if you are trying to help someone out, belittling the condition is not funny.
Well--Ok, it's as funny as a Heart Attack.

Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means.

Thanks RW- I mean no disrespect. These are simply my own insecurities manifesting through humor. I am obviously afraid to see a doctor, but in this case I think I have to face my fear. Again, I appreciate your input.

Steve

aggle-rithm · 4th March 2008, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means.

Just to clarify, people normally don't die suddenly from sleep apnea (as in, stop breathing in the middle of the night and suffocate). It's a slow, insidious killer, like atherosclerosis or high blood pressure. Over time (decades, usually), it brings down your heart, lungs, brain, etc.

casebro · 4th March 2008, 11:01 AM

I took me a while to get used to the sound of Darth Vader next to my bed. But a couple of good night's sleep really made me appreciate his presence.

Long term, it allowed me to stay awake while driving. But did not help in weight loss, blood pressure, or anioplasty frequency. Subsequent weight loss did allow me to lower the cpap pressure slightly.

rwguinn · 4th March 2008, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Elvis666

Of course, you're right, but my wife started with the elephant jokes from the first night I had one.

By the way, all of the pictures shown thus far are still much more obtrusive than the headpiece I use. It is just a slightly larger version of the oxgyen cannulas (cannuli?) used in hospitals. The straps that hold it in place are very soft and comfortable and I can now sleep for seven hours (or more) without ever waking up.

And if the mood strikes, it comes off in less than a second!

That is because you got the wrong mask.
You need this:

rwguinn · 4th March 2008, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

Just to clarify, people normally don't die suddenly from sleep apnea (as in, stop breathing in the middle of the night and suffocate). It's a slow, insidious killer, like atherosclerosis or high blood pressure. Over time (decades, usually), it brings down your heart, lungs, brain, etc.

Not quite true.
Most deaths to which Apnea is a contributer happen between midnight and 6 AM, and are essentially heart attacks. Unless the person is under treatment, we seldom if ever know if it was a contributer.
One that springs to mind was Reggie White, the NFL Hall of Famer...
You don't actually die from OSA--it just triggers other events...

YoPopa · 4th March 2008, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by steverino

Thanks RW- I mean no disrespect. These are simply my own insecurities manifesting through humor. I am obviously afraid to see a doctor, but in this case I think I have to face my fear. Again, I appreciate your input.

Steve

Stevie don't fear the sleeper.

rhtufts · 4th March 2008, 05:25 PM

My dad had surgery for his snoring about 10 years ago. He still snores as much as ever and was in misery for months and months after the surgery. He couldn’t swallow and kept gagging on his own saliva.

I wouldn’t recommend the surgery for snoring.

.02
Russell

biostudent · 4th March 2008, 05:32 PM

My mother had it done and it made her sore for quite a while, but she said it worked. *shrug*

I nudge my hubby when he snores too much. I don't try to wake him - I just get him to roll over, basically. Sometimes I'll wake him up and tell him he's snoring and that he should roll over, but that's only if he keeps lapsing back into snoring after gently nudging him several times. I do this partly for me but mostly for him because I know that if he has a bad night of snoring, he'll have a really bad day the next day. He thanks me for my efforts as he tends to get better sleep that way. He does the same thing for me. I don't even know it unless he tells me the next day.

steverino · 4th March 2008, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by YoPopa

Stevie don't fear the sleeper.

Maybe I need a little more cowbell!

Dancing David · 5th March 2008, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Daisy

CPAP machine can help with the weight loss. The extreme fatigue and brain fog caused by sleep apnea is debilitating. It's not sexy (picture space alien), but it's sexier than snoring and keeping your bedmate awake.

I agree. But now that i can stay awake the sex is much better!

Dancing David · 5th March 2008, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

OMG! I don't think I could deal with this for the rest of my life.

Looks like the end of spontaneous sex forever, at least at night, vs. my girlfriend's current logic of "If I give my annoyingly loud-snoring boyfriend sex tonight maybe he will sleep well and not snore so God-Da__ much!

Mine is just a mask that fits over the nose. And it can be removed very quickley. I got used tyo it right away. But then the feeling of fatigue was terrible. If I drove for more than an hour i had to stop and nap.

YoPopa · 5th March 2008, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Dancing David

If I drove for more than an hour i had to stop and nap.

This is a good point. I too used to nod at the wheel. When I realized I was doing it I would pull over and try to nap but it was never a refreshing nap. If I had a two hour drive I just could not do it without nodding.

I wonder how many highway fatalities are sleep apnea caused. We'll never know because if they happen they have been caused by someone who was probably undiagnosed.

When I finally came out of denial and got a sleep study I got the CPAP within the week. I now drive as much 4 hours with no fatigue.

Dr. Imago · 5th March 2008, 07:34 AM

Snoring is usually a symptom of a much bigger problem. If it progresses to obstructive sleep apnea, then you are setting yourself up for right heart failure eventually. In other words, obesity ultimately kills far more people than nodding off at the wheel (not to diminish the danger of that).

-Dr. Imago

YoPopa · 5th March 2008, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Imago

Snoring is usually a symptom of a much bigger problem. If it progresses to obstructive sleep apnea, then you are setting yourself up for right heart failure eventually.

-Dr. Imago

Tru dat, but it's been mentioned so many times that it hardly seemed necessary to repeat. My own father died of heart failure at a very young age and at that time no one I knew had ever mentioned sleep apnea in any context. It has now been diagnosed in three members of my family and obesity is not required. There is a strong familial tendency. Before sleep apnea was widely recognized we were just known as snorers.

aggle-rithm · 5th March 2008, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by biostudent

My mother had it done and it made her sore for quite a while, but she said it worked. *shrug*

!!!

How long have you been sitting on this anecdotal evidence?!?

We could have been having surgery all this time!!!

rwguinn · 5th March 2008, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Imago

Snoring is usually a symptom of a much bigger problem. If it progresses to obstructive sleep apnea, then you are setting yourself up for right heart failure eventually. In other words, obesity ultimately kills far more people than nodding off at the wheel (not to diminish the danger of that).

-Dr. Imago

OSA IS NOT A DAMN "FAT DISEASE"
It occurs to people of all weights, physical fitness, and ages.
Get off your ******** high goddamn horse. Ok?

Dancing David · 5th March 2008, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

OSA IS NOT A DAMN "FAT DISEASE"
It occurs to people of all weights, physical fitness, and ages.
Get off your ******** high goddamn horse. Ok?

I agree, I have had it when I was at ideal wieght and in excellent shape!

3rd March 2008, 11:25 PM	#1
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Does surgery to remove snoring work? i have "this friend" who snores a lot and his girlfriend says he does not seem to have sleep apnea, but still snores really loud, almost every night. They just moved in together, so it is more disruptive. He tried anti-snore pills, and the nosed bandage, with mixed results. I asked my dentist today if operations work, and he said they work just half the time, and it's not worth the bother. Has anyone here tried the surgery? Thanks.
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas Last edited by steverino; 3rd March 2008 at 11:25 PM.

4th March 2008, 01:46 AM	#2
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	I'd guess it depends on how much of the head they remove?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

4th March 2008, 02:04 AM	#3
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,327	I used to have that problem, but now my friends wife snores as well. There seems to be some phase cancelling/symmetrical absorption effect now. Except that her snoring wakes here up. I have heard the surgery is not very effective in most cases, but is quite painful.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes Last edited by a_unique_person; 4th March 2008 at 02:04 AM.

4th March 2008, 04:10 AM	#4
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,586	It can work. It depends on the details of the case. If you want to know more, an appointment with an ENT surgeon would be a lot more helpful than asking a dentist.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

4th March 2008, 04:19 AM	#5
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by steverino his girlfriend says he does not seem to have sleep apnea, Well, lucky "his" girlfriend is a qualified physician...
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

4th March 2008, 04:19 AM	#6
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,716	Your friend should consider a sleep evaluation, are they fatigued and often tired?
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

4th March 2008, 04:20 AM	#7
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	My wife used to solve my snoring by repeatedly nudging me awake. If I'm not asleep, I can't snore. That ended when I got a C-PAP machine.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

4th March 2008, 06:26 AM	#8
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,795	There are forums specific to sleep disturbances. Read about other peoples difficulties with treatments. CPAP machine fix those problems more surely than surgery, and some surgeries go too far and cause other probs, like swallowing difficulties. And sssooooo many surgeries don't seem to fix the problem either. Weight loss might help, like anybody can actually lose weight and keep it off...
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,795	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

4th March 2008, 07:18 AM	#9
Whiplash Acting like a maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Shipwrecked and Comatose Posts: 5,389	Originally Posted by aggle-rithm My wife used to solve my snoring by repeatedly nudging me awake. If I'm not asleep, I can't snore. My uncle and his wife have had huge fights about this, and it has always intrigued me, and would make me personally very angry as well. Fortunately, it hasn't been a problem for me because I do not snore (or at least not enough that it ever bothered any of my partners). But if someone did that to me even once, I'd be pretty upset. It's not your fault you are snoring, and while I understand it can be very frustrating to try to sleep with that kind of noise, I think this is going over the line, especially in the case of my Uncle who's wife will elbow him in the ribs hard enough to not only wake him up but to do so very painfully and leave him in pain for a little while after. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's very frustrating. But elbowing someone in the ribs all night is just going over the line. I'd say it was being selfish even. I'd consider sleeping in seperate rooms before abusing someone like that. I did see a show on the Discovery Health Channel not long ago about some new procedure being done in Massachusetts (IIRC) that was supposed to be very effective. It had something to do with inserting long rods into the upper palette or something. Didn't look pleasant at all, but if it works, it may help save some marriages. If this type of procedure is already known and debunked here, my apologies.
	__________________ Ken Buddha.. a smile, two bangs, and a religion. On the ricochet.. it's gonna hit you. It's always funny until someone gets hurt. Last edited by Whiplash; 4th March 2008 at 07:23 AM.

4th March 2008, 07:27 AM	#10
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by casebro Weight loss might help, like anybody can actually lose weight and keep it off... Especially when they're sleep deprived.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

4th March 2008, 07:29 AM	#11
Dr. Imago Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,051	Casebro is correct. Weight loss is the first option. Surgery is the last. -Dr. Imago
Dr. Imago Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,051	__________________ DISCLAIMER: The above post is for informational and/or educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for the professional judgment of, in direct consultation with, a health care professional in diagnosing, treating, and/or preventing any disease or disorder. It is not to be construed as individualized medical advice, diagnosis, or a treatment recommendation. Your reliance upon the information obtained or used by you at, through, or as a result of this post is solely at your own risk.

4th March 2008, 07:31 AM	#12
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,954	Originally Posted by a_unique_person I used to have that problem, but now my friends wife snores as well. There seems to be some phase cancelling/symmetrical absorption effect now. Except that her snoring wakes here up. I have heard the surgery is not very effective in most cases, but is quite painful. Pretty much what I have heard also. Only good (surgery) for one or two of the overall causes of snoring at best.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,954

4th March 2008, 07:32 AM	#13
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Thanks Whiplash, and the others here who are commenting. I realize I should get tested, but I am kind of curious if anyone here has jumped in and given the surgery a try, and what the experience has been like. I once bought a battery-powered (E-Bike) bicycle that was to go 18 mph for an hour. But it turned out that was with no friction. Like in my apartment if I lifted the rear wheel, it would spin about an hour at that speed. But if you asked me how it really worked outside, it went about 12 mph for half hour and with each ride the battery weakened and it was hard to find replacement parts, etc.
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas Last edited by steverino; 4th March 2008 at 07:34 AM.

4th March 2008, 07:32 AM	#14
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,954	Originally Posted by Whiplash My uncle and his wife have had huge fights about this, and it has always intrigued me, and would make me personally very angry as well. Fortunately, it hasn't been a problem for me because I do not snore (or at least not enough that it ever bothered any of my partners). But if someone did that to me even once, I'd be pretty upset. It's not your fault you are snoring, and while I understand it can be very frustrating to try to sleep with that kind of noise, I think this is going over the line, especially in the case of my Uncle who's wife will elbow him in the ribs hard enough to not only wake him up but to do so very painfully and leave him in pain for a little while after. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's very frustrating. But elbowing someone in the ribs all night is just going over the line. I'd say it was being selfish even. I'd consider sleeping in seperate rooms before abusing someone like that. I did see a show on the Discovery Health Channel not long ago about some new procedure being done in Massachusetts (IIRC) that was supposed to be very effective. It had something to do with inserting long rods into the upper palette or something. Didn't look pleasant at all, but if it works, it may help save some marriages. If this type of procedure is already known and debunked here, my apologies. I, on the other hand, told my wife to wake me if I was - remember the snoring can be bad for your health.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,954

4th March 2008, 07:35 AM	#15
Mongrel Begging for Scraps Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 20 minutes in the future Posts: 1,640	Originally Posted by Whiplash I did see a show on the Discovery Health Channel not long ago about some new procedure being done in Massachusetts (IIRC) that was supposed to be very effective. It had something to do with inserting long rods into the upper palette or something. Didn't look pleasant at all, but if it works, it may help save some marriages. If this type of procedure is already known and debunked here, my apologies. An ex-member had that procedure and reported good results (here). Googling 'Pillar Procedure' picks up some good results from, what appear to be, sensible places
	__________________ “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin ...like so many contemporary philosophers he especially enjoyed giving helpful advice to people who were happier than he was. - Tom Lehrer

4th March 2008, 07:39 AM	#16
Daisy New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7	Originally Posted by Dr. Imago Casebro is correct. Weight loss is the first option. Surgery is the last. -Dr. Imago CPAP machine can help with the weight loss. The extreme fatigue and brain fog caused by sleep apnea is debilitating. It's not sexy (picture space alien), but it's sexier than snoring and keeping your bedmate awake.
Daisy New Blood Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7

4th March 2008, 08:04 AM	#18
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by steverino OMG! I don't think I could deal with this for the rest of my life. Looks like the end of spontaneous sex forever, at least at night, vs. my girlfriend's current logic of "If I give my annoyingly loud-snoring boyfriend sex tonight maybe he will sleep well and not snore so God-Da__ much! At least you have an excuse not to talk. You can go right to sleep. Of course, that doesn't stop HER from talking.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

4th March 2008, 08:55 AM	#19
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,447	Originally Posted by steverino OMG! I don't think I could deal with this for the rest of my life. Looks like the end of spontaneous sex forever, at least at night, vs. my girlfriend's current logic of "If I give my annoyingly loud-snoring boyfriend sex tonight maybe he will sleep well and not snore so God-Da__ much! Not hardly. I don't use full face, and they have lots of smaller ones. they yank off in a hury, and you don't put it on till you are definitely gonna go to sleep... Check here (You can read, but have to register to post, but it is free and non-invasive...) Lots of help there. Apnia cannot always be diagnosed by listening. It takes a sleep study. My wife said I "occasionally stopped" breathing for short periods at night. "Occasionally" turned out to be 54 times per hour. Apnia may be improved by weight loss, but there are people who are everything from grossly obese to near anorexic with the problem, and from couch potatoes to 50 mile/week runners...
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4th March 2008, 10:05 AM	#22
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,447	While the images and comments are indeed funny,the condition is absolutely not funny. I enjoy a laugh about it myself, but if you are trying to help someone out, belittling the condition is not funny. Well--Ok, it's as funny as a Heart Attack. Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means.
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

4th March 2008, 10:14 AM	#23
Elvis666 Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 278	Originally Posted by rwguinn While the images and comments are indeed funny,the condition is absolutely not funny. I enjoy a laugh about it myself, but if you are trying to help someone out, belittling the condition is not funny. Well--Ok, it's as funny as a Heart Attack. Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means. Of course, you're right, but my wife started with the elephant jokes from the first night I had one. By the way, all of the pictures shown thus far are still much more obtrusive than the headpiece I use. It is just a slightly larger version of the oxgyen cannulas (cannuli?) used in hospitals. The straps that hold it in place are very soft and comfortable and I can now sleep for seven hours (or more) without ever waking up. And if the mood strikes, it comes off in less than a second!
Elvis666 Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 278

4th March 2008, 10:15 AM	#24
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Originally Posted by rwguinn While the images and comments are indeed funny,the condition is absolutely not funny. I enjoy a laugh about it myself, but if you are trying to help someone out, belittling the condition is not funny. Well--Ok, it's as funny as a Heart Attack. Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means. Thanks RW- I mean no disrespect. These are simply my own insecurities manifesting through humor. I am obviously afraid to see a doctor, but in this case I think I have to face my fear. Again, I appreciate your input. Steve
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas

4th March 2008, 10:53 AM	#25
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by rwguinn Because, amazingly enough, Apnea is a very real condition, and when it kills you, you are just as dead as you would be from any other means. Just to clarify, people normally don't die suddenly from sleep apnea (as in, stop breathing in the middle of the night and suffocate). It's a slow, insidious killer, like atherosclerosis or high blood pressure. Over time (decades, usually), it brings down your heart, lungs, brain, etc.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

4th March 2008, 11:01 AM	#26
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,795	I took me a while to get used to the sound of Darth Vader next to my bed. But a couple of good night's sleep really made me appreciate his presence. Long term, it allowed me to stay awake while driving. But did not help in weight loss, blood pressure, or anioplasty frequency. Subsequent weight loss did allow me to lower the cpap pressure slightly.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,795	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

4th March 2008, 11:38 AM	#27
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,447	Originally Posted by Elvis666 Of course, you're right, but my wife started with the elephant jokes from the first night I had one. By the way, all of the pictures shown thus far are still much more obtrusive than the headpiece I use. It is just a slightly larger version of the oxgyen cannulas (cannuli?) used in hospitals. The straps that hold it in place are very soft and comfortable and I can now sleep for seven hours (or more) without ever waking up. And if the mood strikes, it comes off in less than a second! That is because you got the wrong mask. You need this:
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

4th March 2008, 04:44 PM	#28
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,447	Originally Posted by aggle-rithm Just to clarify, people normally don't die suddenly from sleep apnea (as in, stop breathing in the middle of the night and suffocate). It's a slow, insidious killer, like atherosclerosis or high blood pressure. Over time (decades, usually), it brings down your heart, lungs, brain, etc. Not quite true. Most deaths to which Apnea is a contributer happen between midnight and 6 AM, and are essentially heart attacks. Unless the person is under treatment, we seldom if ever know if it was a contributer. One that springs to mind was Reggie White, the NFL Hall of Famer... You don't actually die from OSA--it just triggers other events...
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

4th March 2008, 04:56 PM	#29
YoPopa Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: State of Yo Posts: 1,497	Stevie don't fear the sleeper Originally Posted by steverino Thanks RW- I mean no disrespect. These are simply my own insecurities manifesting through humor. I am obviously afraid to see a doctor, but in this case I think I have to face my fear. Again, I appreciate your input. Steve Stevie don't fear the sleeper.

4th March 2008, 05:25 PM	#30
rhtufts Scholar Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Burleson, TX Posts: 103	My dad had surgery for his snoring about 10 years ago. He still snores as much as ever and was in misery for months and months after the surgery. He couldn’t swallow and kept gagging on his own saliva. I wouldn’t recommend the surgery for snoring. .02 Russell

4th March 2008, 05:32 PM	#31
biostudent Guest Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 102	My mother had it done and it made her sore for quite a while, but she said it worked. shrug I nudge my hubby when he snores too much. I don't try to wake him - I just get him to roll over, basically. Sometimes I'll wake him up and tell him he's snoring and that he should roll over, but that's only if he keeps lapsing back into snoring after gently nudging him several times. I do this partly for me but mostly for him because I know that if he has a bad night of snoring, he'll have a really bad day the next day. He thanks me for my efforts as he tends to get better sleep that way. He does the same thing for me. I don't even know it unless he tells me the next day.
biostudent Guest Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 102

4th March 2008, 10:40 PM	#32
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Originally Posted by YoPopa Stevie don't fear the sleeper. Maybe I need a little more cowbell!
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas

5th March 2008, 04:53 AM	#33
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,716	Originally Posted by Daisy CPAP machine can help with the weight loss. The extreme fatigue and brain fog caused by sleep apnea is debilitating. It's not sexy (picture space alien), but it's sexier than snoring and keeping your bedmate awake. I agree. But now that i can stay awake the sex is much better!
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

5th March 2008, 04:55 AM	#34
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,716	Originally Posted by steverino OMG! I don't think I could deal with this for the rest of my life. Looks like the end of spontaneous sex forever, at least at night, vs. my girlfriend's current logic of "If I give my annoyingly loud-snoring boyfriend sex tonight maybe he will sleep well and not snore so God-Da__ much! Mine is just a mask that fits over the nose. And it can be removed very quickley. I got used tyo it right away. But then the feeling of fatigue was terrible. If I drove for more than an hour i had to stop and nap.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

5th March 2008, 06:41 AM	#35
YoPopa Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: State of Yo Posts: 1,497	Originally Posted by Dancing David If I drove for more than an hour i had to stop and nap. This is a good point. I too used to nod at the wheel. When I realized I was doing it I would pull over and try to nap but it was never a refreshing nap. If I had a two hour drive I just could not do it without nodding. I wonder how many highway fatalities are sleep apnea caused. We'll never know because if they happen they have been caused by someone who was probably undiagnosed. When I finally came out of denial and got a sleep study I got the CPAP within the week. I now drive as much 4 hours with no fatigue.

5th March 2008, 07:34 AM	#36
Dr. Imago Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,051	Snoring is usually a symptom of a much bigger problem. If it progresses to obstructive sleep apnea, then you are setting yourself up for right heart failure eventually. In other words, obesity ultimately kills far more people than nodding off at the wheel (not to diminish the danger of that). -Dr. Imago
Dr. Imago Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,051	__________________ DISCLAIMER: The above post is for informational and/or educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for the professional judgment of, in direct consultation with, a health care professional in diagnosing, treating, and/or preventing any disease or disorder. It is not to be construed as individualized medical advice, diagnosis, or a treatment recommendation. Your reliance upon the information obtained or used by you at, through, or as a result of this post is solely at your own risk.

5th March 2008, 07:59 AM	#37
YoPopa Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: State of Yo Posts: 1,497	Originally Posted by Dr. Imago Snoring is usually a symptom of a much bigger problem. If it progresses to obstructive sleep apnea, then you are setting yourself up for right heart failure eventually. -Dr. Imago Tru dat, but it's been mentioned so many times that it hardly seemed necessary to repeat. My own father died of heart failure at a very young age and at that time no one I knew had ever mentioned sleep apnea in any context. It has now been diagnosed in three members of my family and obesity is not required. There is a strong familial tendency. Before sleep apnea was widely recognized we were just known as snorers.

5th March 2008, 08:42 AM	#38
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,150	Originally Posted by biostudent My mother had it done and it made her sore for quite a while, but she said it worked. shrug !!! How long have you been sitting on this anecdotal evidence?!? We could have been having surgery all this time!!!
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.