Forcing a Religion III: The Resurrection!

ImaginalDisc · 5th March 2008, 09:26 PM

I have accepted Fnord's challenge to create a poll about secularism and blue laws free of bias. You may click as many clicky things as you feel must be clicked until they cluck, you lucky duck.

Dunstan · 5th March 2008, 09:38 PM

I resent you forcing your anti-Planet X religious beliefs on me, but otherwise I think you have risen to the challenge.

IMST · 5th March 2008, 09:51 PM

Well, as the only one who didn't vote yes on "A school requiring students to read Dianetics" I feel like explaining. I had a class in HS that required me to read parts of the Bible, the Koran, the Bagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching, and many others. We read them with a critical eye and an emphasis on comparison and contrast. I would have no problem including Dianetics in the same conversation.

ImaginalDisc · 5th March 2008, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by In My Spare Time

Well, as the only one who didn't vote yes on "A school requiring students to read Dianetics" I feel like explaining. I had a class in HS that required me to read parts of the Bible, the Koran, the Bagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching, and many others. We read them with a critical eye and an emphasis on comparison and contrast. I would have no problem including Dianetics in the same conversation.

That sort of comparative religion stuff if usually part of an elective, rather than a required course, but I concede you have a point.

That_guy · 6th March 2008, 07:25 AM

Hey, look! Real examples of forcing religion on people! I wasn't sure on the Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo question, but it included Oingo and Boingo, so I said yes. Better safe than blasphemous.

Mister Agenda · 6th March 2008, 07:53 AM

I didn't include the Dianetics reading either. If the purpose isn't to convert students to Scientology, it isn't forcing religion. A school can require reading of all sorts of religous texts in the name of history or literature.

juniper_ann · 6th March 2008, 08:11 AM

“A law which requires people to conform to religious dress codes.”

Depends. Dress codes are arbitrary expressions of social conventions, anyway. So “thou shalt wear a cross” is no good, but “thou shalt wear a hijab” is not inherently better or worse than any other dress code convention.

The Dianetics bit also depends, as discussed above

Darth Rotor · 6th March 2008, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

I have accepted Fnord's challenge to create a poll about secularism and blue laws free of bias. You may click as many clicky things as you feel must be clicked until they cluck, you lucky duck.

Why do you hate Planet X?

skeptical · 6th March 2008, 08:47 AM

I didn't vote for any of the "harassing", because is was unclear what that means. Some people consider having their beliefs openly challenged to be "harassing", no matter how civil one tries to be about it.

I also didn't vote for the Dianetics ones for reasons previously mentioned.

ImaginalDisc · 6th March 2008, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by skeptical

I didn't vote for any of the "harassing", because is was unclear what that means. Some people consider having their beliefs openly challenged to be "harassing", no matter how civil one tries to be about it.

I also didn't vote for the Dianetics ones for reasons previously mentioned.

Oh, since the subject was blue laws I used the legal definition, but I probably should have said.

Michelle Lyon · 19th March 2008, 12:30 AM

I did vote for Dianetics because scientology is a fiction-based cult, not a religion. Such literature should not be forced in schools. If they want to study history or lit then why not read Hubbard's original fiction?

A law preventing anyone from working on Sunday, Friday, or some other holy day.	45	93.75%
A law forbiding anyone from requesting Sunday, Friday, or any other way of the week off of work for religious reasons.	39	81.25%
A law which allows people to negotate their work schedules with their employers on whatever basis they and their employer like.	2	4.17%
Violence against people who do not adhere to a certain religion.	47	97.92%
Violence against people who do adhere to a certain religion.	46	95.83%
Violence against people with powerful halitosis in elevators.	2	4.17%
A law which requires people to conform to religious dress codes.	46	95.83%
A law which forbids people from wearing religious symbols.	44	91.67%
A law which allows people to wear whatever they want in public, as long as their reproductive organs are covered.	5	10.42%
Harassing people who deny the divinity of Jesus.	43	89.58%
Harassing people who profess the divinity of Jesus.	42	87.50%
Harassing people who deny the creative genius of The Mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo's film "The Forbidden Zone."	6	12.50%
A school requiring students to read Dianetics	29	60.42%
A school requiring students to read a scathing criticism of Dianetics.	17	35.42%
A school requiring students to remain on campus during the entire school day.	2	4.17%
A judicial system which requires witnesses to swear a religious oath before giving testimony.	45	93.75%
A judicial system which requires witnesses to deface a religious book before giving testimony.	44	91.67%
A judicial system which requires witnesses to tell the truth on pain of fine and/or imprisonment.	1	2.08%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

5th March 2008, 09:26 PM	#1
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Forcing a Religion III: The Resurrection! I have accepted Fnord's challenge to create a poll about secularism and blue laws free of bias. You may click as many clicky things as you feel must be clicked until they cluck, you lucky duck.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47* Last edited by ImaginalDisc; 5th March 2008 at 09:46 PM.

5th March 2008, 09:51 PM	#3
IMST If Charlie Parker Was a Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,128	Well, as the only one who didn't vote yes on "A school requiring students to read Dianetics" I feel like explaining. I had a class in HS that required me to read parts of the Bible, the Koran, the Bagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching, and many others. We read them with a critical eye and an emphasis on comparison and contrast. I would have no problem including Dianetics in the same conversation.
	__________________ Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can plan weird; that's easy. What's hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. - Charles Mingus

5th March 2008, 10:02 PM	#4
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by In My Spare Time Well, as the only one who didn't vote yes on "A school requiring students to read Dianetics" I feel like explaining. I had a class in HS that required me to read parts of the Bible, the Koran, the Bagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching, and many others. We read them with a critical eye and an emphasis on comparison and contrast. I would have no problem including Dianetics in the same conversation. That sort of comparative religion stuff if usually part of an elective, rather than a required course, but I concede you have a point.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

6th March 2008, 07:53 AM	#6
Mister Agenda Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 2,619	I didn't include the Dianetics reading either. If the purpose isn't to convert students to Scientology, it isn't forcing religion. A school can require reading of all sorts of religous texts in the name of history or literature.
	Last edited by Mister Agenda; 6th March 2008 at 07:54 AM.

5th March 2008, 09:38 PM	#2
Dunstan Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sunnyvale Trailer Park Posts: 4,292	I resent you forcing your anti-Planet X religious beliefs on me, but otherwise I think you have risen to the challenge.

6th March 2008, 07:25 AM	#5
That_guy Scholar Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: My house Posts: 116	Hey, look! Real examples of forcing religion on people! I wasn't sure on the Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo question, but it included Oingo and Boingo, so I said yes. Better safe than blasphemous.

6th March 2008, 08:11 AM	#7
juniper_ann Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 260	“A law which requires people to conform to religious dress codes.” Depends. Dress codes are arbitrary expressions of social conventions, anyway. So “thou shalt wear a cross” is no good, but “thou shalt wear a hijab” is not inherently better or worse than any other dress code convention. The Dianetics bit also depends, as discussed above

6th March 2008, 08:40 AM	#8
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,257	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc I have accepted Fnord's challenge to create a poll about secularism and blue laws free of bias. You may click as many clicky things as you feel must be clicked until they cluck, you lucky duck. Why do you hate Planet X?
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

6th March 2008, 08:47 AM	#9
skeptical Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 957	I didn't vote for any of the "harassing", because is was unclear what that means. Some people consider having their beliefs openly challenged to be "harassing", no matter how civil one tries to be about it. I also didn't vote for the Dianetics ones for reasons previously mentioned.
skeptical Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 957	__________________ Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense. - Carl Sagan Ignorance and fanaticism is ever busy and needs feeding.- Clarence Darrow, Scopes trial 1925 When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. - Stephen Roberts

6th March 2008, 08:56 AM	#10
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by skeptical I didn't vote for any of the "harassing", because is was unclear what that means. Some people consider having their beliefs openly challenged to be "harassing", no matter how civil one tries to be about it. I also didn't vote for the Dianetics ones for reasons previously mentioned. Oh, since the subject was blue laws I used the legal definition, but I probably should have said.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

19th March 2008, 12:30 AM	#11
Michelle Lyon Muse Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 566	I did vote for Dianetics because scientology is a fiction-based cult, not a religion. Such literature should not be forced in schools. If they want to study history or lit then why not read Hubbard's original fiction?
	Last edited by Michelle Lyon; 19th March 2008 at 12:36 AM. Reason: code troubles