Why are you all pretending?

[Professor Yaffle]

I would much rather risk mistaking a troll for someone sincere and give sympathy/advice where I can, than risk ridiculing someone who is genuinely ill because I thought they were a troll.

[Locknar]

Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash

When the harassment finally escalated to someone ringing doorbells and throwing things through the windows, the culprit was finally caught. The 32 year old man was actually a 14 year old boy who lived in a nearby town. He posted her name on alt.trolls and enlisted the aid of other trolls to harass the woman. To them it was all a game and they were laughing themselves silly over the woman's terror.

How sad.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I hope this forum isn't a place where the seriously mental ill should go to and expect to get professional help.

I hope there is no mental health professional who thinks it would be appropriate to treat someone via this forum.

I have no problem acting as if Brendy is not a troll (even though I strongly suspect he is).

So, he's made some very wild claims. One of which is certainly testable:

Originally Posted by Brendy

I
The only way to cure my problem would be a thick lead enclosure. No not a tin foil hat, that's not think enough and wont stop the electromagnetic waves from their brain reaching mine.

Electromagnetic waves are detectable. A receiver implanted in his head would be detectable.

He (or she) claims to have exhausted mental health services and also says:

Originally Posted by Brendy

The problem is, there is no way for anyone to convince me what I believe is not real.

No much a skeptic can do. Brendy seems to know how skepticism works, and has already shot down anything we could propose.

So. . . if Brendy's not a troll, what is the purpose of this discussion? As I said earlier, I suppose our huge conspiracy to pretend that telepathy doesn't exist has finally been exposed!

Seriously, DancingDavid, what do you think motivated Brendy to start this thread?

[dubitoergocogito]

Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash

Please read my posts about serial trolls and how they abuse kind people. We still do not know if Brendy is sincere and actually mentally ill or a teenager laughing his ass off at your impassioned speeches and righteous anger.

Any passing troll can go to any website listing the signs of schizophrenia and then work the symptoms into a convincing online persona. Try reading some of the archives of alt.troll on usenet. It pays to have a bit of credulity on the internet as 99% of the time we have no idea who is on the other end of the keyboard.

BTW-I don't buy magazines from unknown high school students raising money for a class trip to Vegas either.

If you are so experienced with identifying internet trolls it seems you somehow have never learned to properly deal with them (i.e. don't feed).

I don't think anybody can deny that there is a very real possibility that the OP has a severe psychotic disorder. That said, whether there's a 20% chance or a 90% chance that he's a troll is a moot point when considering the appropriate reaction. It's sad that some of you don't have the self restraint to either ignore Brendy and move on, or to offer help. I guess some people have to pump up their internet tough-guy image at every turn. Those trying to speculate as to a proper diagnosis are guilty too (though certainly more well-meaning).

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by dubitoergocogito

If you are so experienced with identifying internet trolls it seems you somehow have never learned to properly deal with them (i.e. don't feed).

I don't think anybody can deny that there is a very real possibility that the OP has a severe psychotic disorder. That said, whether there's a 20% chance or a 90% chance that he's a troll is a moot point when considering the appropriate reaction. It's sad that some of you don't have the self restraint to either ignore Brendy and move on, or to offer help. I guess some people have to pump up their internet tough-guy image at every turn. Those trying to speculate as to a proper diagnosis are guilty too (though certainly more well-meaning).

And thank you for joining us.

[Ron_Tomkins]

Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash

And thank you for joining us.

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by Linda777NJ

Anyone that would spend almost a decade lying about their predicaments and ailments had some real serious issues. Perhaps not the ones they claimed but that person is seriously twisted without a doubt!

Nope. Some people have a sense of humor that you don't seem to understand. Screwing with other people for one's own amusement runs rampant on the internet. It's a matter of degree, not kind.

@ dancing david: thanks for the rant of reason

@ Whiplash: I've met some interesting trolls as well, but the one you describe is a classic.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by dubitoergocogito

If you are so experienced with identifying internet trolls it seems you somehow have never learned to properly deal with them (i.e. don't feed).

I don't think anybody can deny that there is a very real possibility that the OP has a severe psychotic disorder. That said, whether there's a 20% chance or a 90% chance that he's a troll is a moot point when considering the appropriate reaction. It's sad that some of you don't have the self restraint to either ignore Brendy and move on, or to offer help. I guess some people have to pump up their internet tough-guy image at every turn. Those trying to speculate as to a proper diagnosis are guilty too (though certainly more well-meaning).

Cry me a river.

The internet is a jungle. The coin of the realm is the written word, and nowadays linked images to add a bit of depth. Sadly, Youtube has been added to devalue the currencly.

Brendy shows up and falls all over self. Standard internet behavior commences, and as you see in the past seven pages, a variety of responses and reactions arrived on cue.

Why is your bleeding heart approach the correct one? What assumptions are you making, about activity on the internet?

This isn't a mental health clinic. It's an internet forum, intended to promote critical thinking. As a byproduct of that intent, it serves as a playground for taking the piss out of things called woos, and things that look like woos.

Welcome.

If you came in the wrong door, I can offer personal abuse in room seven, or getting hit on the head lessons in room twelve.

DR

(Note: that last sentence is a gratuitous Monty Python reference.)

[Senex]

All right! All right! Enough already! I can no longer take the strain. Yes, of course we are all pretending. We aren't all doing it for the same reason -- but all our reasons are nefarious.

[articulett]

(you told... you promised you wouldn't)

[Senex]

Originally Posted by articulett

(you told... you promised you wouldn't)

Yes I did. However, as much as we're told that what happenens in Vegas is supposed to stay in Vegas -- if nothing sexy happens to you in Vegas I don't see why I should keep quiet. Something nice should have happened to me. Because nothing nice happened to me I'm spilling my guts.

Yes, telepathy happens all the time. My neighbors don't have to pay for gas, those rascals drive on telepathy power. The United States has the best military because George Washington left telepathy instructions for all Presidents that followed him.

Many people who post here are wise to the telepathy legacy. Keep digging. The truth is out there.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash

Please read my posts about serial trolls and how they abuse kind people. We still do not know if Brendy is sincere and actually mentally ill or a teenager laughing his ass off at your impassioned speeches and righteous anger.

Any passing troll can go to any website listing the signs of schizophrenia and then work the symptoms into a convincing online persona. Try reading some of the archives of alt.troll on usenet. It pays to have a bit of credulity on the internet as 99% of the time we have no idea who is on the other end of the keyboard.

BTW-I don't buy magazines from unknown high school students raising money for a class trip to Vegas either.

Hmm, so while perhaps you were or were not abusive, being mean to a potentially mentally ill person is justified because they remind you of someone at another place and time?

What kind of evidence is that? You knew that they were doing this, this time, because?

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I hope this forum isn't a place where the seriously mental ill should go to and expect to get professional help.

I hope there is no mental health professional who thinks it would be appropriate to treat someone via this forum.

I have no problem acting as if Brendy is not a troll (even though I strongly suspect he is).

So, he's made some very wild claims. One of which is certainly testable:


Electromagnetic waves are detectable. A receiver implanted in his head would be detectable.

He (or she) claims to have exhausted mental health services and also says:


No much a skeptic can do. Brendy seems to know how skepticism works, and has already shot down anything we could propose.

So. . . if Brendy's not a troll, what is the purpose of this discussion? As I said earlier, I suppose our huge conspiracy to pretend that telepathy doesn't exist has finally been exposed!

Seriously, DancingDavid, what do you think motivated Brendy to start this thread?

That i could not answer, I would have to talk to them and ask them lots of questions. Could be a troll, could be an attention whore, could be someone with bipolar mania, scizophrenia or OCD who hasn't stuck with treatment or responded to treatment. they sure didn't act like a personality disorder.

A lot of severly mentally ill people get thier whole social life on the internet, sad but true, you tell them to engage in meaningful activities and that is what they end up doing.

Talking to people on the Internet.

Is that really meaningful?

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Hmm, so while perhaps you were or were not abusive, being mean to a potentially mentally ill person is justified because they remind you of someone at another place and time?

What kind of evidence is that? You knew that they were doing this, this time, because?

Evidence that a sucker is born every minute?

[articulett]

In my opinion Brendy is probably NOT a troll as I mentioned before. Trolls usually come in here with the attitude that they are "skeptic of the skeptics"-- not paranoid of them.

If Brendy is not schizophrenic or at least bipolar-- he gives one heck of stellar performance. I hope he gets what he is looking for. And I hope he comes back with updates. I know, I know... I could be a trusting, bleeding heart... but Brendy does not sound like Amy Wilson or mayday to me... nor any troll I've known. Brendy does sound like people I know who have neurological problems.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash

Evidence that a sucker is born every minute?

Oh, a platitude? Okay.

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Oh, a platitude? Okay.

If it helps you get through the night...

I'm also selling subscriptions to Collier's Magazine. Would you like to help send my class to Vegas?

[Drudgewire]

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I hope this forum isn't a place where the seriously mental ill should go to and expect to get professional help.

Thank you, I was trying to figure out how to articulate that without sounding like a total jerk.

[PenguinWarrior]

This whole thread has been incredibly depressing.

And the cynical attitude that it's fine to treat people like crap because maybe they aren't being honest is just horrible. I'd much rather be mocked by some idiot teenager for showing sympathy to a made up character than I would be the idiot who's doing the mocking.

Why is the bleeding heart approach the right one? Because it reflects well on the skeptical movement? Because of ethics? Because I'd like it to be true that we're not the cynics that believers want to label us as? Because, you know, I'd rather not be a complete and total (rule 8)?

I really feel a whole lot less good about this forum tonight than I did this morning.

Yuck.

[Senex]

Originally Posted by PenguinWarrior

This whole thread has been incredibly depressing.

And the cynical attitude that it's fine to treat people like crap because maybe they aren't being honest is just horrible. I'd much rather be mocked by some idiot teenager for showing sympathy to a made up character than I would be the idiot who's doing the mocking.

Why is the bleeding heart approach the right one? Because it reflects well on the skeptical movement? Because of ethics? Because I'd like it to be true that we're not the cynics that believers want to label us as? Because, you know, I'd rather not be a complete and total (rule 8)?

I really feel a whole lot less good about this forum tonight than I did this morning.

Yuck.

Sounds like someone waddled off the wrong side of the aquarium this morning. If you just teleported once in a while you wouldn't be so darned depressed about the glaciers melting.

[bruto]

It seems like a kind of bind here. Depending on who you listen to, you shouldn't be flippant, for fear of hurting a person with an illness, you shouldn't try to diagnose for fear of doing it wrong, but you shouldn't just ignore them, and you shouldn't go after them for trolling, and you shouldn't.....well, what should you do? Tell him to get help? Seems like not much.

[quarky]

Mental health professionals are often more proud than their track record should allow.

The idea that there is help available to our disconnected brothers is 1/2 liberal fantasy.
Heady stuff, if you're a shrink...make good money doing good work.
Meanwhile,
We get crazier everyday, as a suppossedly sane collective of compassionate humans.

(I'm still a bit pissed that a shrink's hour is 50 minutes, and the messed up folks in the waiting room have to work a full hour for their hour's pay. )

More shrinks for more mental health!
More lawyers for more justice!
More cops for more freedom!

Meanwhile, we remain embarrassed to address the underlying mess we've created.
We've created and reinforced an unethical social stratification.
All the crappy pills in the world won't fix it, or even slow it down.

How do we return sanity to the vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance?
Convince them that they are heroes? That killing is ok? That it was a righteous cause?

There is systemic insanity that needs to be addressed.

[Brendy]

Well, I was gonna let the thread die, but so many more people responded, so I'll respond too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm8rwT4UWUc

This man had a very similar experience to me.

Similarities: Normal to Ill, belief in telepathy, mind control, voices, remote influencing, smells, optical illusions.
I was also forced into a hospital by my parents. Though I technically checked myself in. The voices also wake me from my sleep and keep me awake when I'm trying to go to sleep. Also that the medication didn't stop the voices.

The "physical sensations and things I can't explain" he mentioned really got to me because that was what really made me believe in telepathy.

(the smell hallucinations are some of the worst things. Very strong pungunt smells where there are none. Only has happened a few times.)

Differences:
The Age when it happened.
I've never believed in any telekinesis.
Six months has gone and passed like 8 months ago.

I have pm'd him on you tube, hoping he could elaborate with me on what he felt and experienced during this six months. I think talking to someone like him could really help me. Somehow it could force me to see that it's not real.

Just over the past day I have accepted the possibity of an illness. I don't mean to sound condensending, but you just CAN'T know what's going on in my head. I think this guy who made this video can because he went through a similar thing.

Of course a random stranger on the internet really isnt where I should be seeking a confidant. But it's anonymous and easy, and I like that.




I deleted my response to all the troll talk here. I'm just gonna ignore all that.


btw, Did you like that guy's math? 1/3 are really ill, but 1/2 are normal? 1/3+1/2=1?

[Brendy]

Thanks for defending me people, but I'm not an easily offended type. I'm a joker, and like a little ribing.

In fact the reason I'm on this internet forum is that the typing really focuses my mind so I really don't hear anything else but my own words (at least I think they are mine ).


So if you don't like me or what I say, don't read my posts.

[articulett]

Smell hallucinations are common with a particular type of seizure... this really sound neurological... and having smell hallucinations might help them figure things out.

http://personal.ecu.edu/wuenschk/parosmia.htm
http://yourtotalhealth.ivillage.com/...cinations.html
http://www.psychtreatment.com/schizo...ucinations.htm
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/hallucinations.htm

Here's an an excellent video from TEDtalks (18 minutes) that you might find interesting.
ttp://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/229

The youtube video was good. I think about 1 in 100 people have schizophrenia-- and it can come and go and there are some new medications that don't have the side effects of the older ones.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/...es/005992.html

It sounds hellish. Let us know how things go. You can teach us how to recognize and respond to other people who are experiencing what you are experiencing.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Brendy

Thanks for defending me people, but I'm not an easily offended type. I'm a joker, and like a little ribing.

In fact the reason I'm on this internet forum is that the typing really focuses my mind so I really don't hear anything else but my own words (at least I think they are mine ).


So if you don't like me or what I say, don't read my posts.

I'm glad you can handle it, and that this discussion helps you to focus. I think you can be sure what you are typing are your own words. After all, if someone were controlling you, they would probably not want you to do this.

I seem to recall an account of the mathematician John Nash's long battle with schizophrenia, in which he noted that one of the ways he had managed to overcome it (not necessarily to be cured of it) was the realization that he could say no to the voices in his head.

[ExMinister]

The video was good and I hope that guy PMs back. You're right, talking to someone like him who has gone through something similar and still attributes it to brain dysfunction is probably going to be a lot more helpful than talking to people who haven't experienced it. Hope you'll keep us posted.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

Thank you, I was trying to figure out how to articulate that without sounding like a total jerk.

Thanks.
And I found a way to articulate it despite about half a dozen typos.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Originally Posted by bruto

It seems like a kind of bind here. Depending on who you listen to, you shouldn't be flippant, for fear of hurting a person with an illness, you shouldn't try to diagnose for fear of doing it wrong, but you shouldn't just ignore them, and you shouldn't go after them for trolling, and you shouldn't.....well, what should you do? Tell him to get help? Seems like not much.

We're also supposed to feel ashamed.

Yep, definitely feel ashamed, even though Brendy doesn't seem at all hurt by the jokes made at his expense.

Even though the forum section is "general skepticism and the paranormal" we should be ashamed for doubting this person's sincerity.

We could all put "seek professional help" at the end of every post, but Brendy claims to have already done that as much as he will. We could suggest ways to test some of his claims, but he's already said that there is nothing that could possibly change his mind about these things.

Kitten pictures are against the new policies, so. . as Bruto says, how should we respond?

[articulett]

Like we did, of course.

Or not at all.

There doesn't have to be a single "right" way.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash

If it helps you get through the night...

I'm also selling subscriptions to Collier's Magazine. Would you like to help send my class to Vegas?

No, especially when they are from a city two hours from here!

Um, so platitudes are evidence of people's motivations and behaviors?

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

No, especially when they are from a city two hours from here!

Um, so platitudes are evidence of people's motivations and behaviors?

If these straw men help keep you company, go for it and build a couple more. Soon you will have enough for a game a Bridge.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

We're also supposed to feel ashamed.

Yep, definitely feel ashamed, even though Brendy doesn't seem at all hurt by the jokes made at his expense.

Uh , huh. I did not say that 100% should aknowledge they were abusive. If somebody had come here and recieved that treatment and then ended up in the ER after a suicide attempt (low probability) then i stiil would not applaud abusive behavior.

If someone is a troll and dishes out abuse, you give to them in return. But to be sceptical of potential psychotic behavior when 1% of the population has schizophrenia and 1-5% of the population has bipolar disorder?

What evidence was there that Brendy was faking, none, justa ncedotal evidence from other situations?

Not you. I don't don't recall if you were abusive to Brendy.

Quote:

Even though the forum section is "general skepticism and the paranormal" we should be ashamed for doubting this person's sincerity.

And what was the nature of the evidence?

[Smiledriver]

You should, as I presume someone has suggested already, apply for Randi's Million Dollar challange.

Just make one simple claim about what you can do, hammer out some protocols w/ the JREF and start buying fur coats and pimp canes.

Good luck

Oh, I don't believe you or anyone else have telepathic powers and I am not pretending either...sorry man.

[Senex]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Uh , huh. I did not say that 100% should aknowledge they were abusive. If somebody had come here and recieved that treatment and then ended up in the ER after a suicide attempt (low probability) then i stiil would not applaud abusive behavior.

If someone is a troll and dishes out abuse, you give to them in return. But to be sceptical of potential psychotic behavior when 1% of the population has schizophrenia and 1-5% of the population has bipolar disorder?

What evidence was there that Brendy was faking, none, justa ncedotal evidence from other situations?

Just because you live in Illinois and are clueless about how to teleport your butt elseware does not give you reason to suggest how people who live in real cities should behave. Who made you king of the 1-5% of the population? Where were you when no one answered my cries for teleportation need?

Take your pill my friend

[JoeTheJuggler]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

And what was the nature of the evidence?

What evidence is there to support anything Brendy claimed?

My response has been the same--either he's in need of serious help, or he's pulling our collective leg, or he's run across a hitherto unknown and amazing phenomenon.

Of the three, I think the second is most likely. If it's the first, he's in the wrong place. Neither you nor anyone else can dispense therapy (or drugs) via a skeptical message board.

If he's upset by the skeptical response he gets from members of a skeptical forum (which it seems he's not in the least), then he should probably find a more accepting crowd to tell his story to.

Again, part of the reason I think he's not sincere is that he doesn't seem to be getting upset by the ribbing and the fact that no one takes his story at face value (the third option I listed above).

I'd be happy to address his story as if he were completely sincere, but he's pretty much ruled out the two lines of discussion I could see: testing his claims or getting help.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Senex

Just because you live in Illinois and are clueless about how to teleport your butt elseware does not give you reason to suggest how people who live in real cities should behave. Who made you king of the 1-5% of the population? Where were you when no one answered my cries for teleportation need?

Take your pill my friend

I do , every day before I go to bed. It keeps certain things in a managable state, especially irritability, anxiety and obsessions.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

What evidence is there to support anything Brendy claimed?

Having known friends who developed schizophrenia, bipolar and depression,(and worked with many others) it is not what Brendy claimed that is reasonable, it is however reasonable presentation of a mental illness.

Quote:

My response has been the same--either he's in need of serious help, or he's pulling our collective leg, or he's run across a hitherto unknown and amazing phenomenon.

Of the three, I think the second is most likely. If it's the first, he's in the wrong place. Neither you nor anyone else can dispense therapy (or drugs) via a skeptical message board.

True but the abuse while most likely exagerated by me is still not appropriate, when I look at the behavior of certain trolls of the past and today, Brendy was not doing the usual name calling and taunting that I usually see. So I didn't think abuse was appropriate. I also didn't call on the most abusive because I know what that response would likely be.

Quote:

If he's upset by the skeptical response he gets from members of a skeptical forum (which it seems he's not in the least), then he should probably find a more accepting crowd to tell his story to.

Here is the deal, having a mental illness does not mean that you sudenlly loose all your other faculties and rational discussion might be able (very unlikely) to change someones mind.

Quote:

Again, part of the reason I think he's not sincere is that he doesn't seem to be getting upset by the ribbing and the fact that no one takes his story at face value (the third option I listed above).

I'd be happy to address his story as if he were completely sincere, but he's pretty much ruled out the two lines of discussion I could see: testing his claims or getting help.

I am not saying that, my asking for evidence is for the people who were saying that Brendy was faking symptoms or that Brendy was here to drain energy off of people.

People should feel free to discuss issues, how ever being abusive is not funny, fighting about diagnosis and the potential for faking diagnosis is not appropriate given the limited nature of the evidence.

So that is what I should have stated more clearly, I apologise.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Again, part of the reason I think he's not sincere is that he doesn't seem to be getting upset by the ribbing and the fact that no one takes his story at face value (the third option I listed above).

Oddly enough, that's one of the reasons I suspect that he is sincere. Just guessing, of course, but I think if he were a fake, he'd make a point of faking offense too.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Having known friends who developed schizophrenia, bipolar and depression,(and worked with many others) it is not what Brendy claimed that is reasonable, it is however reasonable presentation of a mental illness.

Right, and I thought you said it was shameful for anyone who is not a mental health care professional to argue about diagnoses.

I believe I've pointed out that even a qualified professional has no business trying to treat someone via a message board.

Did you not say the following?

Quote:

MOST OF YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH BUT YOU THINK YOURSELVES QUALIFIED TO MAKE DIAGNOSIS BASED UPON A LIMITED NUMBER OF POSTS!!!

You're still tossing around "schizophrenia" and "bi-polar" yourself, and your qualifications to offer diagnosis over a message board is that you've had friends with these diseases? (If that's the qualification you're after, I doubt anyone here is NOT qualified.)

Didn't you also say the following?

Quote:

Not only are many of you behaving in a harmful destructive fashion but you are talking out of your rectums about something you know little to nothing about.

Lets us have a show of hands shall we:

Who here has actually worked with people living with a mental illness?
Who here has had training on how to do assesment and use the DSMIV-R?
Who here has done multiple assesments and worked with real live people.

I've pretty much stated in every post that this forum is not an appropriate place for someone to turn to for mental health advice. It's a skeptic's forum.

I don't see how it's inappropriate for people to discuss possible explanations for Brendy's very strange posts. I've clumped them into three groups (mental illness, troll, or paranormal phenomena), and I think all three would be valid for discussion on this forum. Who are you to say any of them aren't legitimate?

I have no problem with, for example, Bruto's post (above) making a case that Brendy is not a troll. His argument might even change my mind. However, that's not the same as saying it's inappropriate to discuss the possibility.

Quote:

People should feel free to discuss issues, how ever being abusive is not funny, fighting about diagnosis and the potential for faking diagnosis is not appropriate given the limited nature of the evidence.

So that is what I should have stated more clearly, I apologise.

Fair enough. I think the mocking and abuse is to be expected. It's an anonymous forum. Anyone can join for the price of an e-mail address. Brendy's OP was really bizarre. Even the thread title is strange--and accuses everyone here of being in a conspiracy or something. I'd be surprised if Brendy didn't expect to get some mocking and abuse--even if he is being completely sincere.

FWIW, I think the moderators do a fine job of moderating these days.