Survey for magicians

tkingdoll · 20th March 2008, 07:12 PM

Cross-posted at skepchick:

As there’s a fair amount of crossover between magic and skepticism, this might be of interest to a few folks. Prof Richard Wiseman (of Quirkology fame) is currently conducting a study into paranormal belief and magicians. If you consider yourself a magician, professional or amateur, or know someone who is, and can spare a couple of minutes for a few questions, you can find the survey at www.magiciansurvey.com. Thanks!

Garrette · 21st March 2008, 06:18 AM

Done, but it took me from page 1 of 4 to page 4 of 4. I wonder if that's because I answered the one mandatory question on page 1 as "No."

I also wonder how Dr. Wiseman intends to insure audience integrity in regard to actually being a magician and in regard to that magician's knowledge.

Bob Klase · 21st March 2008, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Garrette

Done, but it took me from page 1 of 4 to page 4 of 4. I wonder if that's because I answered the one mandatory question on page 1 as "No."

That's the reason.. I also answered no and went from page 1 to page 4. After submitting my answers I went back and answered yes to see what was on page 2 and 3 (but didn't click the "finish button). Only one question on each page about your paranormal experience.

Brown · 23rd March 2008, 09:01 AM

I thought going from page 1 to page 4 WAS the paranormal experience! WoooOOOOooo!

Vater_Araignee · 4th April 2008, 11:22 AM

I too had the same result.
My conclusion:
This is not a true survey, it has an alterer motive.
Why?
Simple, if it did not then the questioning would end at the same point regardless of experience.
Suspected motive:
Dr. Wiseman (yeah right) only wishes to interview the Magicians that should be taken out back and horse whipped for their claims.

Bob Klase · 4th April 2008, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee

I too had the same result.
My conclusion:
This is not a true survey, it has an alterer motive.
Why?
Simple, if it did not then the questioning would end at the same point regardless of experience.
Suspected motive:
Dr. Wiseman (yeah right) only wishes to interview the Magicians that should be taken out back and horse whipped for their claims.

I don't know if the survey has an ulterior motive, but I don't think the facts support your conclusion that it does. The survey asks if you've had a certain type of experience. If you answer no it doesn't waste your time asking you about the experience you already said you don't have.

I've taken many other surveys that have you skip question that don't apply. An insurance survey might ask if you've ever filed a claim with your insurance company. If you answer yes it then asks questions about the claim you filed. If you answer no then it wisely doesn't spend time asking you about about something that never happened. And if it did, how would you answer?:

Q- Have you ever seen a ghost?

A- No.

Q- What color was the ghost you saw?

A- Huh? I never saw a ghost.

Q- What time of day did you see the ghost?

A- Huh? I never saw a ghost.

Q- Was the ghost you saw male, female, or couldn't tell?

A- Huh? I never saw a ghost.

etc, etc, etc.

Garrette · 4th April 2008, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

If you answer no then it wisely doesn't spend time asking you about about something that never happened. And if it did, how would you answer?:

Q- Have you ever seen a ghost?

A- No.

Q- What color was the ghost you saw?

A- Huh? I never saw a ghost.

Q- What time of day did you see the ghost?

A- Huh? I never saw a ghost.

Q- Was the ghost you saw male, female, or couldn't tell?

A- Huh? I never saw a ghost.

etc, etc, etc.

Which is precisely why the survey I am developing will only ask if a ghost has ever seen you.

tkingdoll · 4th April 2008, 02:14 PM

I think vater was making a leetle joke.

Anyhoo, just to be on the safe side: as far as I know the survey has no ulterior motive. Garrette, the question you raise is true of all self-report surveys, ever. My answer is "you allow for a margin and keep an open mind about the reports of a solo study". One study alone means little, but it does give you some data which may or may not merit further exploration. If Wiseman or other psychologists find the data interesting, they will replicate the study and remove potential for error, bias or lies as far as possible, and see what's what.

Garrette · 4th April 2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

IGarrette, the question you raise is true of all self-report surveys, ever. My answer is "you allow for a margin and keep an open mind about the reports of a solo study". One study alone means little, but it does give you some data which may or may not merit further exploration. If Wiseman or other psychologists find the data interesting, they will replicate the study and remove potential for error, bias or lies as far as possible, and see what's what.

I assumed it would be something of sort, but lacking the relevant education I couldn't express it well.

Anyway, tell him not to doubt my story about fooling Houdini, the Professor, and Banachek simultaneously by producing Uri Geller from a thumb tip.

Senex · 6th April 2008, 03:43 AM

I took the survey but I believe directing people from this site will bias the results since most here are non-believers. I think the ulterior motive was drawing traffic to his website. Call me a skeptic.

tkingdoll · 6th April 2008, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Senex

I took the survey but I believe directing people from this site will bias the results since most here are non-believers. I think the ulterior motive was drawing traffic to his website. Call me a skeptic.

OK, you're a skeptic. And wrong. I can assure you of two things:

1) his websites get plenty of traffic already, without the need to invent experiments to drive people there. Your accusation is unfounded and without merit. And a little bit stupid. Given that his experiments generally receive major international news coverage, a tiny little one to a tiny target audience would be a daft waste of resources as a marketing exercise.

2) given how little traffic this section of the forum receives, I think it's perfectly safe to link from here. Also, the majority, if not all, of the people reading this section, are magicians, amateur or pro. That means they are the exact people wanted for the survey, regardless of belief. That's the entire point. What would you rather do? Not mention it to skeptic magicians? This survey has also been linked from myriad non-skeptic resources and of the hundreds of magicians who have responded, how many do you think came from here rather than a magic forum or newsletter?

Senex · 7th April 2008, 09:26 AM

I should have put a smiley face on my post.

Vater_Araignee · 7th April 2008, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

I think vater was making a leetle joke.

Anyhoo, just to be on the safe side: as far as I know the survey has no ulterior motive. Garrette, the question you raise is true of all self-report surveys, ever. My answer is "you allow for a margin and keep an open mind about the reports of a solo study". One study alone means little, but it does give you some data which may or may not merit further exploration. If Wiseman or other psychologists find the data interesting, they will replicate the study and remove potential for error, bias or lies as far as possible, and see what's what.

Yes sir I was joking in hopes that they lay person would also see it.
I think it is funny to develop conspiracy theories based on nearly zero evidence.

I also follow the traditions of Erik Weisz and love busting on lier's.

At a tarot reading.
ME: Holy **** Thats amazing.
Reader: My abilities are a blessing.
ME: I'll say they are, I'll never be blessed with the ability to Tenki such a big card and fool every one but a magician.

20th March 2008, 07:12 PM	#1
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,468	Survey for magicians Cross-posted at skepchick: As there’s a fair amount of crossover between magic and skepticism, this might be of interest to a few folks. Prof Richard Wiseman (of Quirkology fame) is currently conducting a study into paranormal belief and magicians. If you consider yourself a magician, professional or amateur, or know someone who is, and can spare a couple of minutes for a few questions, you can find the survey at www.magiciansurvey.com. Thanks!
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie

21st March 2008, 06:18 AM	#2
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	Done, but it took me from page 1 of 4 to page 4 of 4. I wonder if that's because I answered the one mandatory question on page 1 as "No." I also wonder how Dr. Wiseman intends to insure audience integrity in regard to actually being a magician and in regard to that magician's knowledge.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	__________________ My kids still love me.

23rd March 2008, 09:01 AM	#4
Brown Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 9,117	I thought going from page 1 to page 4 WAS the paranormal experience! WoooOOOOooo!
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

4th April 2008, 11:22 AM	#5
Vater_Araignee New Blood Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 9	I too had the same result. My conclusion: This is not a true survey, it has an alterer motive. Why? Simple, if it did not then the questioning would end at the same point regardless of experience. Suspected motive: Dr. Wiseman (yeah right) only wishes to interview the Magicians that should be taken out back and horse whipped for their claims.
Vater_Araignee New Blood Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 9

4th April 2008, 02:05 PM	#7
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	Originally Posted by Bob Klase If you answer no then it wisely doesn't spend time asking you about about something that never happened. And if it did, how would you answer?: Q- Have you ever seen a ghost? A- No. Q- What color was the ghost you saw? A- Huh? I never saw a ghost. Q- What time of day did you see the ghost? A- Huh? I never saw a ghost. Q- Was the ghost you saw male, female, or couldn't tell? A- Huh? I never saw a ghost. etc, etc, etc. Which is precisely why the survey I am developing will only ask if a ghost has ever seen you.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	__________________ My kids still love me.

21st March 2008, 08:07 AM	#3
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,445	Originally Posted by Garrette Done, but it took me from page 1 of 4 to page 4 of 4. I wonder if that's because I answered the one mandatory question on page 1 as "No." That's the reason.. I also answered no and went from page 1 to page 4. After submitting my answers I went back and answered yes to see what was on page 2 and 3 (but didn't click the "finish button). Only one question on each page about your paranormal experience.

4th April 2008, 12:51 PM	#6
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,445	Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee I too had the same result. My conclusion: This is not a true survey, it has an alterer motive. Why? Simple, if it did not then the questioning would end at the same point regardless of experience. Suspected motive: Dr. Wiseman (yeah right) only wishes to interview the Magicians that should be taken out back and horse whipped for their claims. I don't know if the survey has an ulterior motive, but I don't think the facts support your conclusion that it does. The survey asks if you've had a certain type of experience. If you answer no it doesn't waste your time asking you about the experience you already said you don't have. I've taken many other surveys that have you skip question that don't apply. An insurance survey might ask if you've ever filed a claim with your insurance company. If you answer yes it then asks questions about the claim you filed. If you answer no then it wisely doesn't spend time asking you about about something that never happened. And if it did, how would you answer?: Q- Have you ever seen a ghost? A- No. Q- What color was the ghost you saw? A- Huh? I never saw a ghost. Q- What time of day did you see the ghost? A- Huh? I never saw a ghost. Q- Was the ghost you saw male, female, or couldn't tell? A- Huh? I never saw a ghost. etc, etc, etc.

4th April 2008, 02:14 PM	#8
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,468	I think vater was making a leetle joke. Anyhoo, just to be on the safe side: as far as I know the survey has no ulterior motive. Garrette, the question you raise is true of all self-report surveys, ever. My answer is "you allow for a margin and keep an open mind about the reports of a solo study". One study alone means little, but it does give you some data which may or may not merit further exploration. If Wiseman or other psychologists find the data interesting, they will replicate the study and remove potential for error, bias or lies as far as possible, and see what's what.
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie

4th April 2008, 02:43 PM	#9
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	Originally Posted by tkingdoll IGarrette, the question you raise is true of all self-report surveys, ever. My answer is "you allow for a margin and keep an open mind about the reports of a solo study". One study alone means little, but it does give you some data which may or may not merit further exploration. If Wiseman or other psychologists find the data interesting, they will replicate the study and remove potential for error, bias or lies as far as possible, and see what's what. I assumed it would be something of sort, but lacking the relevant education I couldn't express it well. Anyway, tell him not to doubt my story about fooling Houdini, the Professor, and Banachek simultaneously by producing Uri Geller from a thumb tip.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	__________________ My kids still love me.

6th April 2008, 03:43 AM	#10
Senex Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An autobody repair shop in Connecticut Posts: 1,835	I took the survey but I believe directing people from this site will bias the results since most here are non-believers. I think the ulterior motive was drawing traffic to his website. Call me a skeptic.
	__________________ I cannot call to mind a single instance where I have ever been irreverent, except toward the things which were sacred to other people. Mark Twain

6th April 2008, 06:22 AM	#11
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,468	Originally Posted by Senex I took the survey but I believe directing people from this site will bias the results since most here are non-believers. I think the ulterior motive was drawing traffic to his website. Call me a skeptic. OK, you're a skeptic. And wrong. I can assure you of two things: 1) his websites get plenty of traffic already, without the need to invent experiments to drive people there. Your accusation is unfounded and without merit. And a little bit stupid. Given that his experiments generally receive major international news coverage, a tiny little one to a tiny target audience would be a daft waste of resources as a marketing exercise. 2) given how little traffic this section of the forum receives, I think it's perfectly safe to link from here. Also, the majority, if not all, of the people reading this section, are magicians, amateur or pro. That means they are the exact people wanted for the survey, regardless of belief. That's the entire point. What would you rather do? Not mention it to skeptic magicians? This survey has also been linked from myriad non-skeptic resources and of the hundreds of magicians who have responded, how many do you think came from here rather than a magic forum or newsletter?
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie Last edited by tkingdoll; 6th April 2008 at 06:25 AM.

7th April 2008, 09:26 AM	#12
Senex Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An autobody repair shop in Connecticut Posts: 1,835	I should have put a smiley face on my post.
	__________________ I cannot call to mind a single instance where I have ever been irreverent, except toward the things which were sacred to other people. Mark Twain

7th April 2008, 09:49 AM	#13
Vater_Araignee New Blood Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 9	Originally Posted by tkingdoll I think vater was making a leetle joke. Anyhoo, just to be on the safe side: as far as I know the survey has no ulterior motive. Garrette, the question you raise is true of all self-report surveys, ever. My answer is "you allow for a margin and keep an open mind about the reports of a solo study". One study alone means little, but it does give you some data which may or may not merit further exploration. If Wiseman or other psychologists find the data interesting, they will replicate the study and remove potential for error, bias or lies as far as possible, and see what's what. Yes sir I was joking in hopes that they lay person would also see it. I think it is funny to develop conspiracy theories based on nearly zero evidence. I also follow the traditions of Erik Weisz and love busting on lier's. At a tarot reading. ME: Holy **** Thats amazing. Reader: My abilities are a blessing. ME: I'll say they are, I'll never be blessed with the ability to Tenki such a big card and fool every one but a magician.
Vater_Araignee New Blood Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 9