McCain's Pastor Exposed!

Puppycow · 23rd March 2008, 09:19 PM

He's not very controversial

An almost complete non-liability, I'm afraid.

But there's this!:

Quote:

McCain, a former prisoner-of-war in Vietnam, was raised in the Episcopal Church but has been attending Yeary's church for about 15 years. Yeary declined to comment on McCain's reluctance to finally undergo a baptism ceremony, a key ritual of the faith.

Could McCain be a closet atheist?

Even though I don't support McCain's neoconservative agenda, I have to give him props about certain issues like military spending. The military should spend money to get the best value according to its strategic needs, not to provide pork-barrel spending to some politically influential district. I really respect McCain's stance on such matters. I also think he has mostly taken the high road with respect to Obama's pastor.

T.A.M. · 23rd March 2008, 09:23 PM

nah, just hates to get his head wet...

TAM

Brainster · 23rd March 2008, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Even though I don't support McCain's neoconservative agenda...

What is it about McCain's agenda that you find neoconservative?

Puppycow · 23rd March 2008, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

nah, just hates to get his head wet...

TAM

Wait a minute, I think you're on to something important here.

John McCain is afraid of touching Holy Water.

Therefore. . . .

HE'S TEH ANTICHRIST!!!11!!1!!!1

or at least possessed by a demon

Originally Posted by Brainster

What is it about McCain's agenda that you find neoconservative?

Doesn't The Weekly Standard love him? If you think he's not a neocon or close enough make little practical difference, I'd like to hear why.

corplinx · 24th March 2008, 12:06 AM

Edited by chillzero:

Edited for Rule 9

timhau · 24th March 2008, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I also think he has mostly taken the high road with respect to Obama's pastor.

Then again, he's not the one running against Obama right now.

NeoRicen · 24th March 2008, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

What is it about McCain's agenda that you find neoconservative?

Um, all of it?

BPSCG · 24th March 2008, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I also think he has mostly taken the high road with respect to Obama's pastor.

He's simply observing the wise old political advice: Don't interfere when your opponent is in the process of self-destructing.

IchabodPlain · 24th March 2008, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

:
Doesn't The Weekly Standard love him? If you think he's not a neocon or close enough make little practical difference, I'd like to hear why.

Is that guilt by association I see there?

Well then, Obama MUST BE a communist because, after all, he was endorsed by a friend of his who used to be a member of the Weather Underground

See how easy that is?

Sefarst · 24th March 2008, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Could McCain be a closet atheist?

I've suspected this for some time. There is actually a large number of Republicans that are atheists but keep their mouths shut.

BPSCG · 24th March 2008, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sefarst

I've suspected this for some time. There is actually a large number of Republicans that are atheists but keep their mouths shut.

Like me!

Dr Adequate · 24th March 2008, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Could McCain be a closet atheist?

Is reality slowly being replaced by re-runs of The West Wing?

Sefarst · 24th March 2008, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Like me!

And me, though I actually don't keep my mouth shut. I openly criticized Mike Huckabee at a College Republicans meeting (of which I'm a member) and got into a nasty debate with the majority of the rest of the organization.

I think other atheist Republicans include Novak, Rove, Greenspan, and I possibly also the late Milton Friedman. The modern image of evangelical Republicans is really just a marriage of opportunity because the evangelicals are REALLY easy to win over. All you have to do is be on their side on a couple key social issues and you can count on them flocking to the polls.

Brainster · 24th March 2008, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Doesn't The Weekly Standard love him? If you think he's not a neocon or close enough make little practical difference, I'd like to hear why.

So if a radical leftist like former Weatherman member Bernadine Dohrn supports Obama, that makes him a radical leftist?

Neoconservatives are a very small subset of conservatives. Their influence and power have been overblown, to the point where many liberals think that Dick Cheney is a neoconservative. Here's a hint: Neo means new. Dick Cheney (and John McCain) have been conservative virtually all their lives; they are not new to the movement. There is no such thing as a "neocon agenda".

Just thinking · 24th March 2008, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Like me!

Ditto.

(Happy Birthday!!)

Brainster · 24th March 2008, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sefarst

And me, though I actually don't keep my mouth shut. I openly criticized Mike Huckabee at a College Republicans meeting (of which I'm a member) and got into a nasty debate with the majority of the rest of the organization.

I think other atheist Republicans include Novak, Rove, Greenspan, and I possibly also the late Milton Friedman. The modern image of evangelical Republicans is really just a marriage of opportunity because the evangelicals are REALLY easy to win over. All you have to do is be on their side on a couple key social issues and you can count on them flocking to the polls.

Robert Novak had a well-reported conversion to Catholicism about a decade ago.

Sefarst · 24th March 2008, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Robert Novak had a well-reported conversion to Catholicism about a decade ago.

I suspect some atheist leanings given some of his comments. Wikipedia mentions it as well:

Quote:

Born Jewish, Novak converted to Catholicism in 1996, after meeting Peter Vaghi, whom he had known before Fr. Vaghi switched from politics to the priesthood. While it is not known to what extent Novak continues to practice Catholic faith, his allegiance to Catholic dogma has been called into question as a result of editorial comments made in support of candidates in the 2008 Presidential primaries.

I could be wrong, but some of his commentaries during the campaigns lead me to believe he's at least not the most religious person around.

Kopji · 24th March 2008, 08:26 PM

This is just another example of McCain being clever.
He's an Episcopalian who attends a Baptist Church.

Quote:

The Episcopal Church was active in the Social Gospel movement of the late nineteenth century and since the 1960s and 1970s has played a leading role in the progressive and liberal movements on church and state issues. For example, in its resolutions on state issues the Episcopal Church has opposed the death penalty, and supported affirmative action and the civil rights movement. In some dioceses, openly homosexual men and women can be ordained; in others, same-sex unions are celebrated. However, on other issues such as abortion, the church has taken both sides of the debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcop...tes_of_America

Puppycow · 24th March 2008, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

So if a radical leftist like former Weatherman member Bernadine Dohrn supports Obama, that makes him a radical leftist?

Neoconservatives are a very small subset of conservatives. Their influence and power have been overblown, to the point where many liberals think that Dick Cheney is a neoconservative. Here's a hint: Neo means new. Dick Cheney (and John McCain) have been conservative virtually all their lives; they are not new to the movement. There is no such thing as a "neocon agenda".

Whether you call it neoconservative or something else, the practical effect is the same. He plans to continue the essential elements of Bush's foreign policy. I want a return to realism.

corplinx · 24th March 2008, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Whether you call it neoconservative or something else, the practical effect is the same. He plans to continue the essential elements of Bush's foreign policy. I want a return to realism.

Bush was first against interventionism, then pro-interventionism, a large voice against North Korea, and now silent on North Korea. Aside from that, his foreign policy is free trade except when he was against it on steel.

How do you sum up Bush's foreign policy since he has had every position? Which elements are you attributing to McCain?

The only foreign policy I see McCain continuing is the occupation of Iraq on a return-on-success strategy. Despite the catchy pro-victory naming, it is indeed a drawdown strategy. Both of the democrat candidates on running on troop drawdowns.

Where is the baton pass of Bush foreign policy you see? Free trade and troop drawdowns are universal.

23rd March 2008, 09:19 PM	#1
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,775	McCain's Pastor Exposed! He's not very controversial An almost complete non-liability, I'm afraid. But there's this!: Quote: McCain, a former prisoner-of-war in Vietnam, was raised in the Episcopal Church but has been attending Yeary's church for about 15 years. Yeary declined to comment on McCain's reluctance to finally undergo a baptism ceremony, a key ritual of the faith. Could McCain be a closet atheist? Even though I don't support McCain's neoconservative agenda, I have to give him props about certain issues like military spending. The military should spend money to get the best value according to its strategic needs, not to provide pork-barrel spending to some politically influential district. I really respect McCain's stance on such matters. I also think he has mostly taken the high road with respect to Obama's pastor.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

23rd March 2008, 11:01 PM	#3
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,430	Originally Posted by Puppycow Even though I don't support McCain's neoconservative agenda... What is it about McCain's agenda that you find neoconservative?
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

23rd March 2008, 11:59 PM	#4
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,775	Originally Posted by T.A.M. nah, just hates to get his head wet... TAM Wait a minute, I think you're on to something important here. John McCain is afraid of touching Holy Water. Therefore. . . . HE'S TEH ANTICHRIST!!!11!!1!!!1 or at least possessed by a demon Originally Posted by Brainster What is it about McCain's agenda that you find neoconservative? Doesn't The Weekly Standard love him? If you think he's not a neocon or close enough make little practical difference, I'd like to hear why.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

24th March 2008, 12:47 AM	#6
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,678	Originally Posted by Puppycow I also think he has mostly taken the high road with respect to Obama's pastor. Then again, he's not the one running against Obama right now.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

24th March 2008, 04:37 AM	#7
NeoRicen Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 444	Originally Posted by Brainster What is it about McCain's agenda that you find neoconservative? Um, all of it?
NeoRicen Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 444

23rd March 2008, 09:23 PM	#2
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	nah, just hates to get his head wet... TAM

24th March 2008, 05:16 AM	#8
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by Puppycow I also think he has mostly taken the high road with respect to Obama's pastor. He's simply observing the wise old political advice: Don't interfere when your opponent is in the process of self-destructing.
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

24th March 2008, 09:14 AM	#9
IchabodPlain Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,250	Originally Posted by Puppycow : Doesn't The Weekly Standard love him? If you think he's not a neocon or close enough make little practical difference, I'd like to hear why. Is that guilt by association I see there? Well then, Obama MUST BE a communist because, after all, he was endorsed by a friend of his who used to be a member of the Weather Underground See how easy that is?

24th March 2008, 09:19 AM	#10
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,238	Originally Posted by Puppycow Could McCain be a closet atheist? I've suspected this for some time. There is actually a large number of Republicans that are atheists but keep their mouths shut.
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,238

24th March 2008, 09:39 AM	#11
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by Sefarst I've suspected this for some time. There is actually a large number of Republicans that are atheists but keep their mouths shut. Like me!
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

24th March 2008, 10:51 AM	#12
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Originally Posted by Puppycow Could McCain be a closet atheist? Is reality slowly being replaced by re-runs of The West Wing?

24th March 2008, 11:17 AM	#13
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,238	Originally Posted by BPSCG Like me! And me, though I actually don't keep my mouth shut. I openly criticized Mike Huckabee at a College Republicans meeting (of which I'm a member) and got into a nasty debate with the majority of the rest of the organization. I think other atheist Republicans include Novak, Rove, Greenspan, and I possibly also the late Milton Friedman. The modern image of evangelical Republicans is really just a marriage of opportunity because the evangelicals are REALLY easy to win over. All you have to do is be on their side on a couple key social issues and you can count on them flocking to the polls.
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,238

24th March 2008, 11:37 AM	#14
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,430	Originally Posted by Puppycow Doesn't The Weekly Standard love him? If you think he's not a neocon or close enough make little practical difference, I'd like to hear why. So if a radical leftist like former Weatherman member Bernadine Dohrn supports Obama, that makes him a radical leftist? Neoconservatives are a very small subset of conservatives. Their influence and power have been overblown, to the point where many liberals think that Dick Cheney is a neoconservative. Here's a hint: Neo means new. Dick Cheney (and John McCain) have been conservative virtually all their lives; they are not new to the movement. There is no such thing as a "neocon agenda".
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

24th March 2008, 12:21 PM	#15
Just thinking Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,169	Originally Posted by BPSCG Like me! Ditto. (Happy Birthday!!)
	__________________ Our greatest challenge is not just to ask the important questions, but to recognize the meaningless ones.

24th March 2008, 01:44 PM	#16
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,430	Originally Posted by Sefarst And me, though I actually don't keep my mouth shut. I openly criticized Mike Huckabee at a College Republicans meeting (of which I'm a member) and got into a nasty debate with the majority of the rest of the organization. I think other atheist Republicans include Novak, Rove, Greenspan, and I possibly also the late Milton Friedman. The modern image of evangelical Republicans is really just a marriage of opportunity because the evangelicals are REALLY easy to win over. All you have to do is be on their side on a couple key social issues and you can count on them flocking to the polls. Robert Novak had a well-reported conversion to Catholicism about a decade ago.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

24th March 2008, 01:51 PM	#17
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,238	Originally Posted by Brainster Robert Novak had a well-reported conversion to Catholicism about a decade ago. I suspect some atheist leanings given some of his comments. Wikipedia mentions it as well: Quote: Born Jewish, Novak converted to Catholicism in 1996, after meeting Peter Vaghi, whom he had known before Fr. Vaghi switched from politics to the priesthood. While it is not known to what extent Novak continues to practice Catholic faith, his allegiance to Catholic dogma has been called into question as a result of editorial comments made in support of candidates in the 2008 Presidential primaries. I could be wrong, but some of his commentaries during the campaigns lead me to believe he's at least not the most religious person around.
Sefarst Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,238

24th March 2008, 08:26 PM	#18
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	This is just another example of McCain being clever. He's an Episcopalian who attends a Baptist Church. Quote: The Episcopal Church was active in the Social Gospel movement of the late nineteenth century and since the 1960s and 1970s has played a leading role in the progressive and liberal movements on church and state issues. For example, in its resolutions on state issues the Episcopal Church has opposed the death penalty, and supported affirmative action and the civil rights movement. In some dioceses, openly homosexual men and women can be ordained; in others, same-sex unions are celebrated. However, on other issues such as abortion, the church has taken both sides of the debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcop...tes_of_America

24th March 2008, 09:18 PM	#19
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,775	Originally Posted by Brainster So if a radical leftist like former Weatherman member Bernadine Dohrn supports Obama, that makes him a radical leftist? Neoconservatives are a very small subset of conservatives. Their influence and power have been overblown, to the point where many liberals think that Dick Cheney is a neoconservative. Here's a hint: Neo means new. Dick Cheney (and John McCain) have been conservative virtually all their lives; they are not new to the movement. There is no such thing as a "neocon agenda". Whether you call it neoconservative or something else, the practical effect is the same. He plans to continue the essential elements of Bush's foreign policy. I want a return to realism.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

24th March 2008, 10:02 PM	#20
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by Puppycow Whether you call it neoconservative or something else, the practical effect is the same. He plans to continue the essential elements of Bush's foreign policy. I want a return to realism. Bush was first against interventionism, then pro-interventionism, a large voice against North Korea, and now silent on North Korea. Aside from that, his foreign policy is free trade except when he was against it on steel. How do you sum up Bush's foreign policy since he has had every position? Which elements are you attributing to McCain? The only foreign policy I see McCain continuing is the occupation of Iraq on a return-on-success strategy. Despite the catchy pro-victory naming, it is indeed a drawdown strategy. Both of the democrat candidates on running on troop drawdowns. Where is the baton pass of Bush foreign policy you see? Free trade and troop drawdowns are universal.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671