youtube generation... your patter sucks.

[treble_head]

I've decided to dive head-first back into doing magic again, whether it ticks off my bosses or not at work, when I use it to build rapport. The first thing I've discovered is that when I try to review others doing the same trick I spent good money for, is that no matter how well executed the trick is, (and that's not often), the delivery is ridiculous.

A super-simple trick like Rob Stiff's stop light cards, for example, is being butchered online via videos like this

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

This guy makes me hate the trick within the first 10 seconds. he then explains the outcome of the trick that the mark should be able to figure out himself. Kill me.

or this one, though he's a kid so it's okay, I think.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

They're giving away so much during the trick that it makes it unbearable. This is the only time I will dislike the youtube generation. Yeah, I can find any piece of film and information I need or want, but dag... It allows people to just post anything they do as okay or right.

I guess this has always been how people approach things like magic, but now it's a world where anybody with a cam can do a good trick badly and give the secrets away.

The thing is, I'm finding it amazing that people latch onto the trick and not the presentation, (which is the scary part, and the one you have to work at, so I guess I understand it).

I'm using the easiest trick I know to prove a point, and I guess the point I'm making is that you can do a super easy trick like the one mentioned above, and make it work to anyone. I've never been caught with that trick, and I don't think I ever will to those who haven't seen it before or know how it works. Say the wrong words, or don't have faith in your trick and try to make up for it, and you're screwed.

I'm assuming magic is a lot like stand-up comedy, where you have to pay your dues and work out what works for you, but youtube is taking all that away.

I'mma shut up now. Opinions?

[AgeGap]

I love it when they mess up half way through, apologise and then carry on (ir)regardless. It beats me why they just don't start again.
Then again I find it strange no matter how well a trick is executed you always get negative replies.

[Vater_Araignee]

It is so horrid I can even look any more.
Not even to complain to youtube about allowing copyright infringement about all the how to's.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee

It is so horrid I can even look any more.
Not even to complain to youtube about allowing copyright infringement about all the how to's.

Which aren't really copyright infringement unless they're using the same description pretty much word for word.

[Almo]

Second vid's much better, in my opinion.

[magicflute]

The proper patter can make a simple trick seem like a miracle. A lousy patter can make a miracle seem like a simple trick. It's my opinion that patter differenciates the amateur from the professional. Patter is probably the most difficult skill to acquire and yet it's always the most neglected!

[Vater_Araignee]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Which aren't really copyright infringement unless they're using the same description pretty much word for word.

Sorry but you can copyright a sequence of motions, and even you you are replicating them poorly by revealing the sequence you are infringing upon copyrights.
Or how about somebodies invention? You know the Raven, correct? Blain got sued up and down over revealing it. Not because people could copy it them selves (patent law does not apply to replicating for personal usage) but because the motions where copyrighted and he revealed them.

[treble_head]

Originally Posted by magicflute

The proper patter can make a simple trick seem like a miracle. A lousy patter can make a miracle seem like a simple trick. It's my opinion that patter differenciates the amateur from the professional. Patter is probably the most difficult skill to acquire and yet it's always the most neglected!

Well, in a way, patter, to me is a combination of just talking to people for long enough and, luckily for me, showmanship-wise and unlucky for me, career-wise, working in retail for about a billion years, plus experience with improv acting and some stand-up comedy.

I completely ignore the patter given with the tricks I buy and learn. Some parts of patter with high-level tricks are extremely important, to NOT get people to want to look at the cards, getting people to trust you, etc... BUT... I almost never read the patter given with the instructions of a trick. Someone else's words out of my mouth will smack of "fake". I've heard 12 year old kids talk of "meeting a street hustler, blah blah blah". No. You didn't. You're 12. You live in the suburbs.

This brings up a good idea for me. Does anyone here have any demonstration videos they're proud of? I'd love to see them.

I'm going to try to, over the next few days, make a video of my version of the traffic lights trick. I've complained about others, and I'm more than willing to be judged for my own version.

Post your own videos with patter here. No reveals, obviously. Any trick, any style. Packet, self working, "skill-based", whatev.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee

Sorry but you can copyright a sequence of motions,

You can. But unlike written works it's not automatic and there are certain requirements.

Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee

and even you you are replicating them poorly by revealing the sequence you are infringing upon copyrights.

If they are copyrighted.

Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee

Or how about somebodies invention? You know the Raven, correct? Blain got sued up and down over revealing it.

Anyone can sue anyone else for anything they want. I could sue you for writing that post if I wanted to. I'd lose, but I could sue you. When Blaine got sued up and down, do you know who won the suit?

[Vater_Araignee]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Anyone can sue anyone else for anything they want. I could sue you for writing that post if I wanted to. I'd lose, but I could sue you. When Blaine got sued up and down, do you know who won the suit?

In this day and age the copyrights for motion are easy to obtain (use video and file copyright), they fall under artistic expressions.

Leach won and the hear say is he could have gotten more but only wanted "lost revenue".

I wish I still had my original instructions for the raven. I would like to check the copy right date and I swear that it was stated "Broadcast Rights Reserved". Of course if Blaine didn't acquire the right with that statement on there then he would have been nailed for that.

I think maybe the discussion of revealing should be spun off . I'm to lazy to do it now so if somebody wants to beat me to it, be my guest.

[JWideman]

The upshot is that now they've put their faces on the internet so they'll never learn more sophisticated illusions.

[Unalienable]

Amateur magicians are usually obsessed with the sleights that they've practiced so long and hard on, while they haven't spent 15 minutes working on their patter. Part of the reason for this lack of patter-practice is that the only way to really hone your patter is in front of a live audience. You can't practice it in a mirror. It's a feedback relationship and only a live performance can build your skills in this department.

It took me a long time to realize how the slightest difference in what you say can make or break a trick. Now I've gotten some tricks down to the point where my patter is choreographed word for word.

Of course in live performances, at least with close-up magic, unexpected things can happen and you're forced to improvise. It's easy for a spectator, not necessarily a heckler but just a spectator having fun, can break your rhythm and force you to think on your feet. That's really hard.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee

In this day and age the copyrights for motion are easy to obtain (use video and file copyright), they fall under artistic expressions.

I didn't say it wasn't easy. I said there were certain requirements and they're not automatic like they are on written works.

Originally Posted by Vater_Araignee

Leach won and the hear say is he could have gotten more but only wanted "lost revenue".

Did he win? I never heard that. Got a reference for it? Might be interesting to see how he calculated lost revenue.

[treble_head]

Originally Posted by Unalienable

Amateur magicians are usually obsessed with the sleights that they've practiced so long and hard on, while they haven't spent 15 minutes working on their patter. Part of the reason for this lack of patter-practice is that the only way to really hone your patter is in front of a live audience. You can't practice it in a mirror. It's a feedback relationship and only a live performance can build your skills in this department.

It took me a long time to realize how the slightest difference in what you say can make or break a trick. Now I've gotten some tricks down to the point where my patter is choreographed word for word.

Of course in live performances, at least with close-up magic, unexpected things can happen and you're forced to improvise. It's easy for a spectator, not necessarily a heckler but just a spectator having fun, can break your rhythm and force you to think on your feet. That's really hard.

well, my live feedback is my coworkers. I'm constantly editing what I do because of them. It usually only takes 2 to 5 tries to go back and think, "How can I make this more bullet resistant?", as no trick is bullet-proof.

I get a few "Lemme see that again", and one or two "When you said 'blah blah blah', what did you mean?", moments to get it right.

I tend to go for entertainment over even the trick. Good natured ribbing goes a long way, as does involving those watching, who aren't the mark (I mean the active spectator). Self deprecation also goes a long way. I like to start the Stop-light card trick with my debit card being the other side of the blank card. It gets a laugh, and they want to know my debit card number too. (It's not my real debit card, just one I got before I got direct deposit, but damn, they stare at it when I put it down!...). Misdirection and humor at the same time! w00t!

Anyhoo, I'm discussing philosophy in this case more than I'd like. So, does anyone have a video that they're proud of the patter within? Love to see it.

[Unalienable]

Originally Posted by treble_head

I get a few "Lemme see that again", and one or two "When you said 'blah blah blah', what did you mean?", moments to get it right.

Yeah that's for sure. Always remember, if somebody is unimpressed with a trick, it's your fault. It's not that they are "too stupid to appreciate it" or something, its you who failed and not them.

I do a trick where I have to get a spectator to hold a card face down, and NOT turn it over. That's not easy, especially with a confrontational type spectator. But the patter can help tremendously.

For starters I say "Hold the card tightly so that there is no way I could grab it from you." That automatically makes them tense up and concentrate on the seemingly fair request.

Then later I say, "WITHOUT LOOKING, do you think you're holding the red ace, or the black ace?" Now it's like a bet. They don't flip it over because that's the condition I've suggested.

And if all else fails and they insist on turning over the card at the wrong time, I still have an out: my patter is "Woah! How did you do that? I thought I was the magician!" They pretty much spoil the effect, but that's OK, I have other effects to swiftly move into.