English Usage US vs. UK

Walter Ego · 13th April 2008, 05:05 PM

Please reference this thread.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270

Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Architect
We have these things called "cinemas" in the UK, not "movie theatres/ers". Theatres are where plays and musicals are shown. It not my language, murder it if you want.........

Me:

'It' is my language, too. In American usage, a 'theatrical' showing for a film means it's playing in a cinema or movie theater for a general paying audience. A film festival showing, however, would not usually be considered a theatrical showing so I was wrong on that score.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...82&postcount=7

fuelair · 13th April 2008, 05:57 PM

With no offense to our British friends, I would say USians should use USian terms and Britons/UK should be free to use British/UK terms (French, French terms, etc.) -- in any area under discussion. For one thing, that helps those who do not know each others to learn each others.

athon · 13th April 2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Please reference this thread.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270

Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what?

It depends on who you are talking to and whether you're introducing confusion or not. If you say 'I went to the theatre the other night' to a Brit, you'd probably need to clarify you mean the movies or risk giving the wrong impression. In international arenas here, if you understand that the terms can be confused it might pay in the future to be specific if you can.

Hell, the US is renown for demanding language aimed at them to be specific for their understanding. Here in Australia we import US novels without them being changed. Books produced here which then find a US market are edited and words are changed.

Athon

Magenta · 13th April 2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Please reference this thread.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270

Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what?

I'd suggest you cultivate a thick skin and ignore tedious nitpicking.

leonAzul · 13th April 2008, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

With no offense to our British friends, I would say USians should use USian terms and Britons/UK should be free to use British/UK terms (French, French terms, etc.) -- in any area under discussion. For one thing, that helps those who do not know each others to learn each others.

Yes.

I can't count the number of times in my travels that I have asked people to repeat what they have said in English in their native language in order to fully grasp what they intended.

Walter Ego · 13th April 2008, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by athon

It depends on who you are talking to and whether you're introducing confusion or not. If you say 'I went to the theatre the other night' to a Brit, you'd probably need to clarify you mean the movies or risk giving the wrong impression. In international arenas here, if you understand that the terms can be confused it might pay in the future to be specific if you can.

Well, I was talking about a film being 'screened theatrically' which is standard American usage for a cinema showing.

Quote:

Hell, the US is renown for demanding language aimed at them to be specific for their understanding. Here in Australia we import US novels without them being changed. Books produced here which then find a US market are edited and words are changed.

I haven't read any Aussie novels lately but I do enjoy P.D. James and the American editions are unchanged for US publication. I didn't have any language comprehension problems while reading them.

Jeff Corey · 13th April 2008, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by leonAzul

Yes.

I can't count the number of times in my travels that I have asked people to repeat what they have said in English in their native language in order to fully grasp what they intended.

I had that happen in Florida, too.

Jeff Corey · 13th April 2008, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by athon

It depends on who you are talking to and whether you're introducing confusion or not. If you say 'I went to the theatre the other night' to a Brit, you'd probably need to clarify you mean the movies or risk giving the wrong impression. In international arenas here, if you understand that the terms can be confused it might pay in the future to be specific if you can.

Hell, the US is renown for demanding language aimed at them to be specific for their understanding. Here in Australia we import US novels without them being changed. Books produced here which then find a US market are edited and words are changed.

Athon

Could you give us an example of that, please?

Giraffe107 · 13th April 2008, 07:34 PM

I can't think of books off-hand but one example is the movie 'The Castle'. 'Tertiary education' was changed to 'college education', some of the legal terms were changed (from memory barrister/solicitor to lawyer) and things like that.

athon · 13th April 2008, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Well, I was talking about a film being 'screened theatrically' which is standard American usage for a cinema showing.

I'm aware, as Australia has a rather strong mix of American and British usage of terms. We're a bastard race

. Obviously it goes both ways - in international forums, people have to be aware that some terms will vary. We all have to forgive one another's cultural backgrounds. But I feel that if you know it could potentially mislead some people to not quite understand, then it's only helpful to adapt your language a little.

Quote:

I haven't read any Aussie novels lately but I do enjoy P.D. James and the American editions are unchanged for US publication. I didn't have any language comprehension problems while reading them.

I read an American copy of one of Nick Earls' (Brisbane author) books, and it was pretty thoroughly butchered. I got to chat with him about it once, and he was upset that we often get books which containing references to things like 'Oreos' (which weren't available here until a few years ago) while his American editor said he couldn't use the term 'Tim Tam' as Americans wouldn't get the reference.

I'm sure a lot of foreign books are destributed directly from the country of origin, however in my experience with American publishing, which also has the force of a lucrative US market behind them, tends to require culturalisation of a script before they'll market it to an American audience.

Athon

Jeff Corey · 13th April 2008, 07:35 PM

I thank my Public T V for all the English vocabulary I obtained. Like, "In hospital" "On holiday, "Roundabout", "Car park", "Ballox" and "Innit?". Then there was Viz.

athon · 13th April 2008, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Corey

Could you give us an example of that, please?

Giraffe gave a great example of a movie where it occured, and I suggested one book (Nick Earls 'Forty Eight Shades of Brown' was the novel, I think). I know of a couple of others by second-hand discussions, such as Bryce Courtney's books, but I haven't read any of his stuff so can't vouch for it personally.

Athon

Blue Mountain · 13th April 2008, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Corey

Could you give us an example of that, please?

I can't speak for Australian novels, but in the United States the first Harry Potter book is known as Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, while in the rest of the world the title is Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

leonAzul · 13th April 2008, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Corey

I had that happen in Florida, too.

That is just too real *lmao*

brodski · 13th April 2008, 10:00 PM

I didn't weigh in on that thread as I didn't want to de-rail it further, but even though in the UK we don't tend to call cinemas theaters, it is not unusual to talk about a film having a "theatrical release", with references to "theatrical trailers" and the like.

Your meaning was clear, and your usage was only incorrect is as much as the film in discussion has a one off screening in a film festival, and not a full theatrical release.

Morrigan · 13th April 2008, 11:07 PM

Architect was just being a pedantic jerk, no need to fuss about it.

And that's coming from someone who generally prefers UK English to American English. (I'm French Canadian so I can use whichever English I want.

)

I wonder though, if the screening had been in France, should you have been required to write the French term, according to him? Silliness.

monoman · 13th April 2008, 11:24 PM

We also call it "The Pictures" in the UK, as in "We're going to the Pictures".
However, unlike Americans, we never call a film a Picture.

Big Les · 14th April 2008, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by brodski

I didn't weigh in on that thread as I didn't want to de-rail it further, but even though in the UK we don't tend to call cinemas theaters, it is not unusual to talk about a film having a "theatrical release", with references to "theatrical trailers" and the like.

Your meaning was clear, and your usage was only incorrect is as much as the film in discussion has a one off screening in a film festival, and not a full theatrical release.

Exactly. Any film buff ought to be very familiar with the term.

I can only think someone must have weed in Archi's cornflakes that morning.

Tricky · 14th April 2008, 05:54 AM

I was driving from my flat to the petrol station to clean my windscreen when I heard a noise from the gearbox. I went to raise the bonnet, when I saw that my tyre was flat, so I had to pull the spare out of the boot.

Architect · 14th April 2008, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Architect was just being a pedantic jerk, no need to fuss about it.

And that's coming from someone who generally prefers UK English to American English. (I'm French Canadian so I can use whichever English I want.

)

I wonder though, if the screening had been in France, should you have been required to write the French term, according to him? Silliness.

Gee, taa. And to think I resist making comments about horse French......

Architect · 14th April 2008, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Please reference this thread.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270

Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what?

Ach, quit whining.

This site has a lot of nationalities and lot of different standards of English. That's taken as read. It's not like I complain when you all refer to elevators or sidewalks. I've never once made any comments about the spelling of skeptic, color, or defense. I convert measurements into imperial in lieu of metric where it helps technical discussions. The only time I've queried "college" is when I need to be sure that they're not talking about what the UK would call secondary school, as opposed to university. These are used correctly, in context, and it would be madness to object.

You were posting a story about the UK, likely to be of interest only to Brits, and used an American term which was incorrect. I also have pointed out on previous occasion that there is no such paper as The Times of London, corrected the idiots that think there's someone called the Queen of England, or - and quite a few North American posters here are guilty of this - don't understand the difference between England and Britain/the United Kingdom.

I'm damned sure there would be raised eyebrows if UK posters started referring to the American "Parliament" or started calling your senior lawyers "QCs" and so on.

Architect · 14th April 2008, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

I was driving from my flat to the petrol station to clean my windscreen when I heard a noise from the gearbox. I went to raise the bonnet, when I saw that my tyre was flat, so I had to get the spare out of the boot.

Close, but no prize!

What would you use instead of "gearbox"? Or do you mean the clutch?

Nero · 14th April 2008, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

I was driving from my flat to the petrol station to clean my windscreen when I heard a noise from the gearbox. I went to raise the bonnet, when I saw that my tyre was flat, so I had to pull the spare out of the boot.

I was driving from my apartment to the gas station to clean my windshield when I heard a noise from the ????????. I went to raise* the hood, when I saw that my tire was flat, so I had to pull the spare out of the trunk.

*Here in the UK we would usually open the bonnet not raise it.

monoman · 14th April 2008, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Architect

Close, but no prize!

What would you use instead of "gearbox"? Or do you mean the clutch?

I think it's transmission.

Thinking in CT · 14th April 2008, 07:30 AM

Regarding the "Theatre/Cinema" issue.

In the USA, from the early days of the movies to mid 20th century, films actually were commonly shown in theaters (note Webster's revised spelling) along with live musical stage shows. Every city had many such venues. The last of the breed is the venerable Radio City Music Hall in New York which still packs them in for its combined Film/Stage show productions. Hence the term "theater" accurately described where one might go to see a movie in the US.

also;

Regarding British "misusage" of an American word:

Aluminum - a metallic element first isolated, described and named by an American scientist, is pronounced AL-YOU-MIN-EE-UM by the Brits who just decided it needed an extra syllable!

and;
Most strangely:

The British expression to "take someone off" and the US "to put someone on" mean the same thing!!

Nero · 14th April 2008, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Thinking in CT

The British expression to "take someone off" and the US "to put someone on" mean the same thing!!

Can you contextualise, give me a couple of sentences?

Architect · 14th April 2008, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Thinking in CT

Regarding British "misusage" of an American word:

Aluminum - a metallic element first isolated, described and named by an American scientist, is pronounced AL-YOU-MIN-EE-UM by the Brits who just decided it needed an extra syllable!

However, IIRC, it was also called Aluminium in the US for a while and there was quite a debate about its spelling.

Quote:

The British expression to "take someone off" and the US "to put someone on" mean the same thing!!

Sorry, you've lost me there.

Architect · 14th April 2008, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by monoman

I think it's transmission.

Naw, isn't the transmission the bit that takes the power from the gearbox?

Morrigan · 14th April 2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Architect

Ach, quit whining.

This site has a lot of nationalities and lot of different standards of English. That's taken as read. It's not like I complain when you all refer to elevators or sidewalks. I've never once made any comments about the spelling of skeptic, color, or defense. I convert measurements into imperial in lieu of metric where it helps technical discussions. The only time I've queried "college" is when I need to be sure that they're not talking about what the UK would call secondary school, as opposed to university. These are used correctly, in context, and it would be madness to object.

His usage was also correct.

Quote:

You were posting a story about the UK, likely to be of interest only to Brits, and used an American term which was incorrect.

By your logic, if I post a news story that occurs in the UK, I should write "I'm really sceptical about this" or "that lift didn't work correctly" or else I'm being "incorrect"? His usage was correct in American English, and I really don't see what the location of the topic had to do with what usage should be more "correct". The comparison with an American Parliament is faulty, since such a thing doesn't even exist.

And then there's the fact that other Brits chimed in to say he was being perfectly clear, so you're pretty much alone in your pedantry here.

monoman · 14th April 2008, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Architect

Naw, isn't the transmission the bit that takes the power from the gearbox?

Yaa! I've just checked on Wikipedia and it looks like i'm correct.

Quote:

The simplest transmissions, often called gearboxes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_%28mechanics%29

tkingdoll · 14th April 2008, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Thinking in CT

Regarding British "misusage" of an American word:

Aluminum - a metallic element first isolated, described and named by an American scientist, is pronounced AL-YOU-MIN-EE-UM by the Brits who just decided it needed an extra syllable!

Really? Who was that then? My understand of the history differs to yours, it seems.

Besides, Aluminium is by far the most sensible spelling for the word given its location in the periodic table. And was actually the way Americans spelled it until Charles Martin Hall changed the spelling for an advert. If it's him you're referring to, he certainly was not the first to isolate, describe or name it, by some distance, and his patents all used the 'ium' spelling.

So, you have it backwards. An American 'decided' it needed one fewer syllable and the rest of the world took no notice.

Nero · 14th April 2008, 08:08 AM

From Wikipedia (so caution maybe needed):

Quote:

Nomenclature history

The earliest citation given in the Oxford English Dictionary for any word used as a name for this element is alumium, which Humphry Davy employed in 1808 for the metal he was trying to isolate electrolytically from the mineral alumina. The citation is from his journal Philosophical Transactions: "Had I been so fortunate as..to have procured the metallic substances I was in search of, I should have proposed for them the names of silicium, alumium, zirconium, and glucium."[22]

By 1812, Davy had settled on aluminum, which, as other sources note,[citation needed] matches its Latin root. He wrote in the journal Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state."[23] But the same year, an anonymous contributor to the Quarterly Review, a British political-literary journal, objected to aluminum and proposed the name aluminium, "for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound."[24]

The -ium suffix had the advantage of conforming to the precedent set in other newly discovered elements of the time: potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, and strontium (all of which Davy had isolated himself). Nevertheless, -um spellings for elements were not unknown at the time, as for example platinum, known to Europeans since the sixteenth century, molybdenum, discovered in 1778, and tantalum, discovered in 1802.

Americans adopted -ium to fit the standard form of the periodic table of elements, for most of the nineteenth century, with aluminium appearing in Webster's Dictionary of 1828. In 1892, however, Charles Martin Hall used the -um spelling in an advertising handbill for his new electrolytic method of producing the metal, despite his constant use of the -ium spelling in all the patents[20] he filed between 1886 and 1903.[25] It has consequently been suggested that the spelling reflects an easier to pronounce word with one fewer syllable, or that the spelling on the flier was a mistake. Hall's domination of production of the metal ensured that the spelling aluminum became the standard in North America; the Webster Unabridged Dictionary of 1913, though, continued to use the -ium version.

In 1926, the American Chemical Society officially decided to use aluminum in its publications; American dictionaries typically label the spelling aluminium as a British variant.

Thinking in CT · 14th April 2008, 08:10 AM

OK here goes:

A grasshopper walks into a bar:

Bartender - "Hey, we have a drink named after you!"

Grasshopper - "You mean you have a drink named 'Al'?

Bartender - "Hey, don't put me on!"

A grasshopper walks into a pub -

Publican - "Ya know the Yanks 'ave a drink named after you."

Grasshopper - "You mean they 'ave a drink named 'Alfie'?

Publican - "Now c'mon, don't take me off!!"

Big Les · 14th April 2008, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by monoman

Yaa! I've just checked on Wikipedia and it looks like i'm correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_%28mechanics%29

I thought it was the gearbox and clutch taken together.

Nero · 14th April 2008, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Thinking in CT

OK here goes:

A grasshopper walks into a bar:

Bartender - "Hey, we have a drink named after you!"

Grasshopper - "You mean you have a drink named 'Al'?

Bartender - "Hey, don't put me on!"

A grasshopper walks into a pub -

Publican - "Ya know the Yanks 'ave a drink named after you."

Grasshopper - "You mean they 'ave a drink named 'Alfie'?

Publican - "Now c'mon, don't take me off!!"

Sorry, I think you may be on thin ice here, I certainly don't recognise that usage.

ravdin · 14th April 2008, 08:19 AM

I remember being very confused once in a pub in Scotland when someone asked me if I was "pissed". I didn't think I looked particularly annoyed at the moment....

Thinking in CT · 14th April 2008, 08:25 AM

I bow before your clearly, more detailed scholarship on this issue. My memory as to my source on Aluminum is a 45 years ago reading of a World Book Encyclopedia article on Hall (of Oberlin College, Ohio) touted in that worthy publication as the "discoverer" of Al.

grayman · 14th April 2008, 08:31 AM

England and America are two countries separated by a common language.
George Bernard Shaw
Irish dramatist & socialist (1856 - 1950)

Loss Leader · 14th April 2008, 08:55 AM

I think there's been a little bit of confusion in this thread. Let's just begin by defining some basic terms. I think we can all agree that, whatever language they may speak in England, it is most definitely not english.

I personally think it sounds a little like english (sometimes German can sound a little like english). Sometimes it's easy to become confused for a moment and think you're actually hearing english. But, you're not. "I've up and knackered my lorry, wot," is not english. It can't even be translated into english. It expresses concepts that english-speakers do not have the social foundation to grasp.

There is no sense arguing with the British on this issue because no matter how sensibly we lay out our arguments, let's face it, we're not going to understand their answer.

Wildy · 14th April 2008, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by ravdin

I remember being very confused once in a pub in Scotland when someone asked me if I was "pissed". I didn't think I looked particularly annoyed at the moment....

You know, pissed people piss me off.

Then again I had to think a bit when listening to the song Piano Man, because he uses 'stoned' in a rather uncommon context.

Why don't we all use Australian English and leave it at that. Then the pedantic Poms won't have to worry about the spelling, and the Yanks will be able to keep some of their crazy uses of words, and we can all go back to laughing at the (mostly) seppos on the CT forum.

13th April 2008, 05:05 PM	#1
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	English Usage US vs. UK Please reference this thread. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270 Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what? Quote: Originally Posted by Architect We have these things called "cinemas" in the UK, not "movie theatres/ers". Theatres are where plays and musicals are shown. It not my language, murder it if you want......... Me: 'It' is my language, too. In American usage, a 'theatrical' showing for a film means it's playing in a cinema or movie theater for a general paying audience. A film festival showing, however, would not usually be considered a theatrical showing so I was wrong on that score. http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...82&postcount=7

13th April 2008, 05:57 PM	#2
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	With no offense to our British friends, I would say USians should use USian terms and Britons/UK should be free to use British/UK terms (French, French terms, etc.) -- in any area under discussion. For one thing, that helps those who do not know each others to learn each others.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881

13th April 2008, 06:05 PM	#3
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Please reference this thread. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270 Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what? It depends on who you are talking to and whether you're introducing confusion or not. If you say 'I went to the theatre the other night' to a Brit, you'd probably need to clarify you mean the movies or risk giving the wrong impression. In international arenas here, if you understand that the terms can be confused it might pay in the future to be specific if you can. Hell, the US is renown for demanding language aimed at them to be specific for their understanding. Here in Australia we import US novels without them being changed. Books produced here which then find a US market are edited and words are changed. Athon
	Last edited by athon; 13th April 2008 at 06:07 PM.

13th April 2008, 07:16 PM	#6
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by athon It depends on who you are talking to and whether you're introducing confusion or not. If you say 'I went to the theatre the other night' to a Brit, you'd probably need to clarify you mean the movies or risk giving the wrong impression. In international arenas here, if you understand that the terms can be confused it might pay in the future to be specific if you can. Well, I was talking about a film being 'screened theatrically' which is standard American usage for a cinema showing. Quote: Hell, the US is renown for demanding language aimed at them to be specific for their understanding. Here in Australia we import US novels without them being changed. Books produced here which then find a US market are edited and words are changed. I haven't read any Aussie novels lately but I do enjoy P.D. James and the American editions are unchanged for US publication. I didn't have any language comprehension problems while reading them.
	Last edited by Walter Ego; 13th April 2008 at 07:19 PM.

13th April 2008, 07:34 PM	#9
Giraffe107 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,336	I can't think of books off-hand but one example is the movie 'The Castle'. 'Tertiary education' was changed to 'college education', some of the legal terms were changed (from memory barrister/solicitor to lawyer) and things like that.
	__________________ Love is a snowmobile racing across the icy tundra that suddenly flips over, trapping you beneath. At night the ice weasels come. - Matt Groening

13th April 2008, 06:33 PM	#4
Magenta Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,311	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Please reference this thread. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270 Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what? I'd suggest you cultivate a thick skin and ignore tedious nitpicking.

13th April 2008, 07:13 PM	#5
leonAzul Illuminator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 3,734	Originally Posted by fuelair With no offense to our British friends, I would say USians should use USian terms and Britons/UK should be free to use British/UK terms (French, French terms, etc.) -- in any area under discussion. For one thing, that helps those who do not know each others to learn each others. Yes. I can't count the number of times in my travels that I have asked people to repeat what they have said in English in their native language in order to fully grasp what they intended.

13th April 2008, 07:27 PM	#7
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	Originally Posted by leonAzul Yes. I can't count the number of times in my travels that I have asked people to repeat what they have said in English in their native language in order to fully grasp what they intended. I had that happen in Florida, too.

13th April 2008, 07:29 PM	#8
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	Originally Posted by athon It depends on who you are talking to and whether you're introducing confusion or not. If you say 'I went to the theatre the other night' to a Brit, you'd probably need to clarify you mean the movies or risk giving the wrong impression. In international arenas here, if you understand that the terms can be confused it might pay in the future to be specific if you can. Hell, the US is renown for demanding language aimed at them to be specific for their understanding. Here in Australia we import US novels without them being changed. Books produced here which then find a US market are edited and words are changed. Athon Could you give us an example of that, please?

13th April 2008, 07:34 PM	#10
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Well, I was talking about a film being 'screened theatrically' which is standard American usage for a cinema showing. I'm aware, as Australia has a rather strong mix of American and British usage of terms. We're a bastard race . Obviously it goes both ways - in international forums, people have to be aware that some terms will vary. We all have to forgive one another's cultural backgrounds. But I feel that if you know it could potentially mislead some people to not quite understand, then it's only helpful to adapt your language a little. Quote: I haven't read any Aussie novels lately but I do enjoy P.D. James and the American editions are unchanged for US publication. I didn't have any language comprehension problems while reading them. I read an American copy of one of Nick Earls' (Brisbane author) books, and it was pretty thoroughly butchered. I got to chat with him about it once, and he was upset that we often get books which containing references to things like 'Oreos' (which weren't available here until a few years ago) while his American editor said he couldn't use the term 'Tim Tam' as Americans wouldn't get the reference. I'm sure a lot of foreign books are destributed directly from the country of origin, however in my experience with American publishing, which also has the force of a lucrative US market behind them, tends to require culturalisation of a script before they'll market it to an American audience. Athon

13th April 2008, 07:35 PM	#11
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	I thank my Public T V for all the English vocabulary I obtained. Like, "In hospital" "On holiday, "Roundabout", "Car park", "Ballox" and "Innit?". Then there was Viz.
	Last edited by Jeff Corey; 13th April 2008 at 07:36 PM.

13th April 2008, 07:36 PM	#12
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	Originally Posted by Jeff Corey Could you give us an example of that, please? Giraffe gave a great example of a movie where it occured, and I suggested one book (Nick Earls 'Forty Eight Shades of Brown' was the novel, I think). I know of a couple of others by second-hand discussions, such as Bryce Courtney's books, but I haven't read any of his stuff so can't vouch for it personally. Athon

13th April 2008, 07:38 PM	#13
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 3,630	Originally Posted by Jeff Corey Could you give us an example of that, please? I can't speak for Australian novels, but in the United States the first Harry Potter book is known as Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, while in the rest of the world the title is Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.

13th April 2008, 07:51 PM	#14
leonAzul Illuminator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 3,734	Originally Posted by Jeff Corey I had that happen in Florida, too. That is just too real lmao

13th April 2008, 10:00 PM	#15
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,066	I didn't weigh in on that thread as I didn't want to de-rail it further, but even though in the UK we don't tend to call cinemas theaters, it is not unusual to talk about a film having a "theatrical release", with references to "theatrical trailers" and the like. Your meaning was clear, and your usage was only incorrect is as much as the film in discussion has a one off screening in a film festival, and not a full theatrical release.
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,066

13th April 2008, 11:07 PM	#16
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,866	Architect was just being a pedantic jerk, no need to fuss about it. And that's coming from someone who generally prefers UK English to American English. (I'm French Canadian so I can use whichever English I want. ) I wonder though, if the screening had been in France, should you have been required to write the French term, according to him? Silliness.
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,866

13th April 2008, 11:24 PM	#17
monoman Master baiter - I fish! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 967	We also call it "The Pictures" in the UK, as in "We're going to the Pictures". However, unlike Americans, we never call a film a Picture.

14th April 2008, 03:27 AM	#18
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	Originally Posted by brodski I didn't weigh in on that thread as I didn't want to de-rail it further, but even though in the UK we don't tend to call cinemas theaters, it is not unusual to talk about a film having a "theatrical release", with references to "theatrical trailers" and the like. Your meaning was clear, and your usage was only incorrect is as much as the film in discussion has a one off screening in a film festival, and not a full theatrical release. Exactly. Any film buff ought to be very familiar with the term. I can only think someone must have weed in Archi's cornflakes that morning.
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian

14th April 2008, 05:54 AM	#19
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,338	I was driving from my flat to the petrol station to clean my windscreen when I heard a noise from the gearbox. I went to raise the bonnet, when I saw that my tyre was flat, so I had to pull the spare out of the boot.
	Last edited by Tricky; 14th April 2008 at 05:54 AM.

14th April 2008, 05:58 AM	#20
Architect Chief Punkah Wallah Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 8,477	Originally Posted by Morrigan Architect was just being a pedantic jerk, no need to fuss about it. And that's coming from someone who generally prefers UK English to American English. (I'm French Canadian so I can use whichever English I want. ) I wonder though, if the screening had been in France, should you have been required to write the French term, according to him? Silliness. Gee, taa. And to think I resist making comments about horse French......
	__________________ When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies. James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party

14th April 2008, 06:02 AM	#21
Architect Chief Punkah Wallah Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 8,477	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Please reference this thread. http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=111270 Apparently I'm supposed to use British usage when I reference the screening of film in the UK. Is this a load of bollocks or what? Ach, quit whining. This site has a lot of nationalities and lot of different standards of English. That's taken as read. It's not like I complain when you all refer to elevators or sidewalks. I've never once made any comments about the spelling of skeptic, color, or defense. I convert measurements into imperial in lieu of metric where it helps technical discussions. The only time I've queried "college" is when I need to be sure that they're not talking about what the UK would call secondary school, as opposed to university. These are used correctly, in context, and it would be madness to object. You were posting a story about the UK, likely to be of interest only to Brits, and used an American term which was incorrect. I also have pointed out on previous occasion that there is no such paper as The Times of London, corrected the idiots that think there's someone called the Queen of England, or - and quite a few North American posters here are guilty of this - don't understand the difference between England and Britain/the United Kingdom. I'm damned sure there would be raised eyebrows if UK posters started referring to the American "Parliament" or started calling your senior lawyers "QCs" and so on.
	__________________ When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies. James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party Last edited by Architect; 14th April 2008 at 06:21 AM.

14th April 2008, 06:22 AM	#22
Architect Chief Punkah Wallah Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 8,477	Originally Posted by Tricky I was driving from my flat to the petrol station to clean my windscreen when I heard a noise from the gearbox. I went to raise the bonnet, when I saw that my tyre was flat, so I had to get the spare out of the boot. Close, but no prize! What would you use instead of "gearbox"? Or do you mean the clutch?
	__________________ When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies. James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party Last edited by Architect; 14th April 2008 at 06:22 AM.

14th April 2008, 06:46 AM	#23
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145	Originally Posted by Tricky I was driving from my flat to the petrol station to clean my windscreen when I heard a noise from the gearbox. I went to raise the bonnet, when I saw that my tyre was flat, so I had to pull the spare out of the boot. I was driving from my apartment to the gas station to clean my windshield when I heard a noise from the ????????. I went to raise* the hood, when I saw that my tire was flat, so I had to pull the spare out of the trunk. *Here in the UK we would usually open the bonnet not raise it.
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145

14th April 2008, 07:12 AM	#24
monoman Master baiter - I fish! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 967	Originally Posted by Architect Close, but no prize! What would you use instead of "gearbox"? Or do you mean the clutch? I think it's transmission.

14th April 2008, 07:30 AM	#25
Thinking in CT Scholar Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Connecticut Posts: 60	US v. UK "English" Regarding the "Theatre/Cinema" issue. In the USA, from the early days of the movies to mid 20th century, films actually were commonly shown in theaters (note Webster's revised spelling) along with live musical stage shows. Every city had many such venues. The last of the breed is the venerable Radio City Music Hall in New York which still packs them in for its combined Film/Stage show productions. Hence the term "theater" accurately described where one might go to see a movie in the US. also; Regarding British "misusage" of an American word: Aluminum - a metallic element first isolated, described and named by an American scientist, is pronounced AL-YOU-MIN-EE-UM by the Brits who just decided it needed an extra syllable! and; Most strangely: The British expression to "take someone off" and the US "to put someone on" mean the same thing!!

14th April 2008, 07:36 AM	#26
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145	Originally Posted by Thinking in CT The British expression to "take someone off" and the US "to put someone on" mean the same thing!! Can you contextualise, give me a couple of sentences?
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145

14th April 2008, 07:37 AM	#27
Architect Chief Punkah Wallah Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 8,477	Originally Posted by Thinking in CT Regarding British "misusage" of an American word: Aluminum - a metallic element first isolated, described and named by an American scientist, is pronounced AL-YOU-MIN-EE-UM by the Brits who just decided it needed an extra syllable! However, IIRC, it was also called Aluminium in the US for a while and there was quite a debate about its spelling. Quote: The British expression to "take someone off" and the US "to put someone on" mean the same thing!! Sorry, you've lost me there.
	__________________ When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies. James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party

14th April 2008, 07:38 AM	#28
Architect Chief Punkah Wallah Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 8,477	Originally Posted by monoman I think it's transmission. Naw, isn't the transmission the bit that takes the power from the gearbox?
	__________________ When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies. James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party

14th April 2008, 07:57 AM	#29
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,866	Originally Posted by Architect Ach, quit whining. This site has a lot of nationalities and lot of different standards of English. That's taken as read. It's not like I complain when you all refer to elevators or sidewalks. I've never once made any comments about the spelling of skeptic, color, or defense. I convert measurements into imperial in lieu of metric where it helps technical discussions. The only time I've queried "college" is when I need to be sure that they're not talking about what the UK would call secondary school, as opposed to university. These are used correctly, in context, and it would be madness to object. His usage was also correct. Quote: You were posting a story about the UK, likely to be of interest only to Brits, and used an American term which was incorrect. By your logic, if I post a news story that occurs in the UK, I should write "I'm really sceptical about this" or "that lift didn't work correctly" or else I'm being "incorrect"? His usage was correct in American English, and I really don't see what the location of the topic had to do with what usage should be more "correct". The comparison with an American Parliament is faulty, since such a thing doesn't even exist. And then there's the fact that other Brits chimed in to say he was being perfectly clear, so you're pretty much alone in your pedantry here.
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,866	Last edited by Morrigan; 14th April 2008 at 07:58 AM.

14th April 2008, 08:05 AM	#30
monoman Master baiter - I fish! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 967	Originally Posted by Architect Naw, isn't the transmission the bit that takes the power from the gearbox? Yaa! I've just checked on Wikipedia and it looks like i'm correct. Quote: The simplest transmissions, often called gearboxes... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_%28mechanics%29

14th April 2008, 08:05 AM	#31
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,471	Originally Posted by Thinking in CT Regarding British "misusage" of an American word: Aluminum - a metallic element first isolated, described and named by an American scientist, is pronounced AL-YOU-MIN-EE-UM by the Brits who just decided it needed an extra syllable! Really? Who was that then? My understand of the history differs to yours, it seems. Besides, Aluminium is by far the most sensible spelling for the word given its location in the periodic table. And was actually the way Americans spelled it until Charles Martin Hall changed the spelling for an advert. If it's him you're referring to, he certainly was not the first to isolate, describe or name it, by some distance, and his patents all used the 'ium' spelling. So, you have it backwards. An American 'decided' it needed one fewer syllable and the rest of the world took no notice.
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie Last edited by tkingdoll; 14th April 2008 at 08:08 AM.

14th April 2008, 08:08 AM	#32
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145	From Wikipedia (so caution maybe needed): Quote: Nomenclature history The earliest citation given in the Oxford English Dictionary for any word used as a name for this element is alumium, which Humphry Davy employed in 1808 for the metal he was trying to isolate electrolytically from the mineral alumina. The citation is from his journal Philosophical Transactions: "Had I been so fortunate as..to have procured the metallic substances I was in search of, I should have proposed for them the names of silicium, alumium, zirconium, and glucium."[22] By 1812, Davy had settled on aluminum, which, as other sources note,[citation needed] matches its Latin root. He wrote in the journal Chemical Philosophy: "As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state."[23] But the same year, an anonymous contributor to the Quarterly Review, a British political-literary journal, objected to aluminum and proposed the name aluminium, "for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound."[24] The -ium suffix had the advantage of conforming to the precedent set in other newly discovered elements of the time: potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, and strontium (all of which Davy had isolated himself). Nevertheless, -um spellings for elements were not unknown at the time, as for example platinum, known to Europeans since the sixteenth century, molybdenum, discovered in 1778, and tantalum, discovered in 1802. Americans adopted -ium to fit the standard form of the periodic table of elements, for most of the nineteenth century, with aluminium appearing in Webster's Dictionary of 1828. In 1892, however, Charles Martin Hall used the -um spelling in an advertising handbill for his new electrolytic method of producing the metal, despite his constant use of the -ium spelling in all the patents[20] he filed between 1886 and 1903.[25] It has consequently been suggested that the spelling reflects an easier to pronounce word with one fewer syllable, or that the spelling on the flier was a mistake. Hall's domination of production of the metal ensured that the spelling aluminum became the standard in North America; the Webster Unabridged Dictionary of 1913, though, continued to use the -ium version. In 1926, the American Chemical Society officially decided to use aluminum in its publications; American dictionaries typically label the spelling aluminium as a British variant.
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145

14th April 2008, 08:10 AM	#33
Thinking in CT Scholar Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Connecticut Posts: 60	OK here goes: A grasshopper walks into a bar: Bartender - "Hey, we have a drink named after you!" Grasshopper - "You mean you have a drink named 'Al'? Bartender - "Hey, don't put me on!" A grasshopper walks into a pub - Publican - "Ya know the Yanks 'ave a drink named after you." Grasshopper - "You mean they 'ave a drink named 'Alfie'? Publican - "Now c'mon, don't take me off!!"

14th April 2008, 08:14 AM	#34
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	Originally Posted by monoman Yaa! I've just checked on Wikipedia and it looks like i'm correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_%28mechanics%29 I thought it was the gearbox and clutch taken together.
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian

14th April 2008, 08:17 AM	#35
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145	Originally Posted by Thinking in CT OK here goes: A grasshopper walks into a bar: Bartender - "Hey, we have a drink named after you!" Grasshopper - "You mean you have a drink named 'Al'? Bartender - "Hey, don't put me on!" A grasshopper walks into a pub - Publican - "Ya know the Yanks 'ave a drink named after you." Grasshopper - "You mean they 'ave a drink named 'Alfie'? Publican - "Now c'mon, don't take me off!!" Sorry, I think you may be on thin ice here, I certainly don't recognise that usage.
Nero Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 145	Last edited by Nero; 14th April 2008 at 08:17 AM.