Talking to the Troops -- Share Your Second-hand Stories and observations

[Cain]

I teach polisci at a small college, and some of my students are veterans back from Iraq. Probably the most awful thing one of them has said to me is an incident (presented as not unusual) where they hear "insurgents are on bikes" so they just started killing anyone on a bicycle. Later the message gets clarified: "they're on motor-bikes." *Shrug* (literally shrug). I couldn't believe the casual indifference so I would ask others if it was plausible, and they'd just nod, one of them -- a scary, so-white-he's pink right-wing, gun-loving, shaved head, militia type -- saying "it gets boring out there." One super nice guy who had more than once expressed regret he couldn't bring his AR-15 down from Alaska, was talking to me about the war and I mentioned breaking into houses in the middle of the night screaming, "Down, mother-****er." His eyes lit up and he said, "Oh, that's actually fun" -- as in a fresh break from the normal tedium. Another (who works for the county sheriff) openly brags about having three guns in his car. "Um, that's probably not something you want advertise."

Not surprisingly they also seem about as interested in "liberating" Iraq as California prison guards are emotionally invested in "rehabilitating" their "clients." I was talking to one yesterday who was recounting his experiences as a sniper in the Marines. I said, "You seem remarkably well-adjusted. Many veterans are less forthcoming about their experiences." Then he clarified (exact words), "Oh, about a year after I came back I couldn't talk to anyone about it I was so ****ed up."

Now I recall being at a party a few years ago, and an ex-Marine -- dishonorably discharged for doing cocaine -- was holding court, slightly drunk, beer in hand. A real charismatic, Tyler Durden-type; you'd guess lead singer for a moderately successful rock band long before Marine. "At LEAST twenty percent of the guys in the core don't give a **** about America, the flag, or any of that crap. They just want to kill people." It was something I had taken with a grain of salt because the guy had been dishonorably discharged, and he WAS a coke-head. But the more of these guys and see and talk to... It's not all one big, macho ******** pose; they are seriously ****ed in the head.

Asked about the justness of the war I would describe the response of those I have talked to as indifferent. I would classify all but one as conservative, and the self-described liberal was outspoken against the war and Bush, but the rest of 'em just don't think about it.

[Normal Dude]

You forgot the part where we stomp puppies for fun.

[Puppycow]

I seriously hope those guys are not representative, but hoping is not knowing. And a volunteer army also means that some of the volunteers (hopefully a very small minority) might be the sort who really are into the idea of shooting an enemy and are less bothered by the moral questions about the war.

Thanks for passing that along. I trust you are giving us the straight scoop and that your political opinions don't make you embelish. I would put less stock in what a dishonorably discharged cokehead said, but if several others agree.

I don't have any stories myself.

[Lurker]

I have two close friends in the Air Force.

The first is a Major and is a doctor. Pretty liberal and not for the war at all. He has not beein to Iraq but did a tour in Qatar supporting it.

The second friend is a liberal but supported the war. He is a Captain (Comm Officer) and has been to Iraq. Being in the Air Force he did not see any action but did travel around once for fun. Over the years, he has modified his opinion and while he used to be pretty gung-ho about the war ("getting rid of Saddam is a good thing") he seems less enthusiastic about it now.

Both strongly support Obama.

They are not representative of most officers though. They say they are pretty much surrounded by conservatives and they have to watch their tongues sometimes in order to fit in.

[gumboot]

Were the people you talked to officers or enlisted men?

[Safe-Keeper]

Guess I could share this PBS Frontline documentary here, as I haven't had any real conversations with soldiers from Iraq.

[Cain]

Normal Dude:

Quote:

You forgot the part where we stomp puppies for fun.

Normally, I would just pleasantly chat with these guys about the service, but the bike-killing thing was too lurid, too shocking. It's the sort of thing I could dismiss if others said "no way," but they didn't, at least not the guys I asked. Also, there have been video clips of soldiers doing awful things to animals. I'm just sharing what I have heard. They could be lying through their teeth.

Here's another thing I remember. It had to have been over a year ago because a survey was released on troop morality. One question asked something that basically went "would you report a murder committed by a fellow soldier?" The results were depressing, and I remember Marines were the most hard-core about not "ratting" someone out. So I had a Marine in my class, and I asked if he would report a crime like murder to a superior officer. He said no. Why not? "That's on them. It's something they have to live with."

Puppycow:

Quote:

Thanks for passing that along. I trust you are giving us the straight scoop and that your political opinions don't make you embelish. I would put less stock in what a dishonorably discharged cokehead said, but if several others agree.

It's possible they could just tell me whatever I want to hear. I knew a guy who was in the Navy for four (or five?) years and then went into the Army for a year. He hated the Army. He had been in Iraq and his biggest gripe was coming back and hearing people (against the war) keeping asking if he was all right ("you poor thing"). That seemed to bother him infinitely more than fighting a bogus war for bogus reasons.

Lurker:

Quote:

I have two close friends in the Air Force.

During a break for a longer class I overheard a Marine happily recounting the nicknames for the different branches. "Yeah, Marines are Jarheads; Army = Grunts." What do you call people in the Navy? "Squids." Cain: "Heh, I have a couple of friends in the Air Force. What do you call them?" Marine: "Air Force? Civilians." Another one is Flyboy, though he prefers the more diminutive Civilian. I also learned about some of the fighting that goes on between Marines and sailors. Marine: "They just give us a ride to where we need to go." When I talked to a Navy guy, mentioning the fighting, I would recall what the Marine said, and then the Navy guy finished the sentence before I could get it out "...ride to where..."

[shadron]

If you're interested in first hand info you might read some of the stories in The Sandbox, "our command-wide milblog, featuring comments, anecdotes, and observations from service members currently deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan" hosted on Gary Trudeau's Doonesbury website (http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/ ).

There's one really pungent article on there today about PC and "Rules of Engagement", if you're in doubt about Trudeau's liberality affecting the submittals.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Guess I could share this PBS Frontline documentary here, as I haven't had any real conversations with soldiers from Iraq.

I'd also add Bad Voodoo's War, Band of Bloggers and Gunner Palace for collections of taped opinion.

We just hired a new guy who did a tour over there and that seemed to be part of why he got out. A number of other people I work with have kids who have been, or soon will be deployed.