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ntech · 15th February 2003, 10:50 AM

I saw Tony Blair live early this morning New York time and his speech was brilliant. You folks in England should be proud if him. He is intelligent, articulate and has a great sense of justice. I wish he could run for president of the US after his run in the UK. His vision of what must be done to insure the survival of the civilized world is extraordinary.

Cheers Mr. Blair

corplinx · 15th February 2003, 12:51 PM

What shocks and angers me is the euro-elites who call Blair a yes-man or a lapdog of Bush. Blair obviously has more class than his detractors combined.

Jedi Knight · 15th February 2003, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ntech
I saw Tony Blair live early this morning New York time and his speech was brilliant. You folks in England should be proud if him. He is intelligent, articulate and has a great sense of justice. I wish he could run for president of the US after his run in the UK. His vision of what must be done to insure the survival of the civilized world is extraordinary.

Cheers Mr. Blair

Yes, Blair is brilliant. He linked the humanitarian objective to the western objective and that was very important.

JK

Advocate · 15th February 2003, 02:06 PM

As I recall, Blair is a Labour Party PM. Correct me if I am wrong, but for the most part Labour is to the left of either of the major US parties. If the Democrats could find someone with as much guts and as much charisma as Blair, he'd be a sure thing for President. The man has class.

a_unique_person · 15th February 2003, 02:34 PM

JK thinks blair is good? JK, he is to the left of the US democrats.

I heard a part of his speech. It was well written, well presented and very pursuasive.

Only problem is, it ignored a lot of points of interest.

One of his his main points appeared to be, what about the poor bastards in Iraq, what are all these peace protestors doing for them?

There are billions for people around under various forms of oppressive regimes. Why are we suddenly interested in this particular one? What is the objective of intervention for these people? What is the next country of people who are equally deserving of intervention, and the next? Are we going to get a list together and work our way up it? At what poing do we stop?

ntech · 15th February 2003, 02:57 PM

Not until we are all safe and all counties are not repressed.

mbp · 15th February 2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by a_unique_person
There are billions for people around under various forms of oppressive regimes. Why are we suddenly interested in this particular one? What is the objective of intervention for these people? What is the next country of people who are equally deserving of intervention, and the next? Are we going to get a list together and work our way up it? At what poing do we stop?

I think he did address this. At least indirectly. He said:

Quote:

The moral case against war has a moral answer: it is the moral case for removing Saddam. It is not the reason we act. That must be according to the UN mandate on weapons of mass destruction.

But it is the reason, frankly, why if we do have to act, we should do so with a clear conscience.

So the other oppressive regimes have nothing to fear as long as they don't violate UN Security Council resolutions. Even if a moral case can be made against them.

aerocontrols · 15th February 2003, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mbp
So the other oppressive regimes have nothing to fear as long as they don't violate UN Security Council resolutions. Even if a moral case can be made against them.

Until I become President. Or Clinton becomes president again, for that matter. There were no UN Sec. Council resolutions against Serbia.

MattJ

mbp · 15th February 2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aerocontrols

Until I become President. Or Clinton becomes president again, for that matter. There were no UN Sec. Council resolutions against Serbia.

All true.

I should have said:
"They are safe from Tony Blair, according to the speech he made today" (or yesterday over here).

And I didn't mean it as criticism. I was just pointing out that what he said didn't logically require him to go to war with every oppressive regime on the planet.

Advocate · 15th February 2003, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ntech
Not until we are all safe and all counties are not repressed.

I agree with you in principle. But how safe is safe enough? And exactly what qualifies as repression? These are not easy questions. Iraq and North Korea are obviously threatening and repressive. But what about Iran? Saudi Arabia? Venezuela? Nigeria? All of these are hostile to some extent and could be classified as repressive as well, but none of them (IMHO) are as bad as Iraq or North Korea. Still, it depends on how you define "safe" and "repressed". We can never be perfectly safe and there will always be repression in the world. I suspect a lot of our political debate in the next few years is going to be about how safe is safe enough.

The Central Scrutinizer · 15th February 2003, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by a_unique_person
JK thinks blair is good? JK, he is to the left of the US democrats.

LOL. JK has no idea who Tony Blair even is.

Jedi Knight · 15th February 2003, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer

LOL. JK has no idea who Tony Blair even is.

I know who Blair is and even when a leftist like Blair does a good thing I will give him credit for it. I am not like leftists who think anyone close to center of the political spectrum is a right-wing extremist.

JK

Reginald · 15th February 2003, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

I know who Blair is and even when a leftist like Blair does a good thing I will give him credit for it. I am not like leftists who think anyone close to center of the political spectrum is a right-wing extremist.

JK

I agree you are not, you are a right-wing extremist who think anyone close to center of the political spectrum is a leftist.

Nikk · 16th February 2003, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ntech
I saw Tony Blair live early this morning New York time and his speech was brilliant. You folks in England should be proud if him. He is intelligent, articulate and has a great sense of justice. I wish he could run for president of the US after his run in the UK. His vision of what must be done to insure the survival of the civilized world is extraordinary.

Cheers Mr. Blair

In fact I think that he might not relish another big job, he's starting to look rather exhausted.

On the other hand how about Cherie? Its time you had a female president, she's energetic, very smart, not unattractive and has Irish connections. She would be a natural!

OK she would probably reorganise your ABM system on Feng Shui principles but I am sure that it would work just as well!

Jon_in_london · 16th February 2003, 11:44 PM

If you want Blair you are most welcome to him! Hes a bit like chocolate- nice at first. Addictive even? but after a while it becomes nauseating and you just wish it would stop stop! STOP! OH MY GOOD GOD MAKE HIM STOOOPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!

LillyThePink · 17th February 2003, 03:42 AM

We should leave george to stew in his lack of global popularity and sort out that Mugabe git. At least then we'd be focussing on a problem that is actually part of the fricking commonwealth.

Undesired Walrus · 4th July 2009, 02:00 AM

Gosh, how things change.

How do Americans feel about Brown these days?

Oliver · 4th July 2009, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Gosh, how things change.

How do American's feel about Brown these days?

Brown-nose?

DC · 4th July 2009, 02:14 AM

Was graebst du hier so alte Kühe aus?

Oliver · 4th July 2009, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by Dictator Cheney

Was graebst du hier so alte Kühe aus?

Da müsstest du schon UW fragen, ich hab keine Ahnung wieso er das Bedürfnis hatte, ausgerechnet diesen alten Thread auszugraben.

Undesired Walrus · 4th July 2009, 02:47 AM

It's just childish Oliver.

Oliver · 4th July 2009, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

It's just childish Oliver.

Supposing that you know what we wrote in German, why was it a childish decision from your side to bump the thread? - I mean, what was your intention and the current event that led to your decision to bump it?

Undesired Walrus · 4th July 2009, 03:40 AM

Interest in how Americans view British PM's, realised how popular Blair was in the US, wondered how things have changed since 2003.

Interest. Why not have some context to my query?

Quote:

Da müsstest du schon UW fragen, ich hab keine Ahnung wieso er das Bedürfnis hatte, ausgerechnet diesen alten Thread auszugraben

Now you know. I dug it up for context. It's childish to try and block the rest of us out by talking in German. More so when you don't realise a few of us can understand it.

Oliver · 4th July 2009, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Interest in how Americans view British PM's, realised how popular Blair was in the US, wondered how things have changed since 2003.

Interest. Why not have some context to my query?

Now you know. I dug it up for context. It's childish to try and block the rest of us out by talking in German. More so when you don't realise a few of us can understand it.

Quite frankly, reading US/UK/ME/German-News and assuming that the name Blair isn't as familiar to Americans than it is to Germans, why should I try to guess what Americans think since he and UK-Politics isn't a big issue anyway? I have no idea what the current mood is about Brown. Maybe the Americans responding so far in this thread may be able to explain the differences in their opinion back then and now - if they did change their minds about him for some reason.

Well, I was replying to Dictator Cheney's German question since he assumed I did bump the old thread, which I didn't do. So I asked him to ask you personally about why you bumped it. I don't see why this short conversation is relevant to the topic at hand - nor why I should've translated the rather unimportant sentences in the first place.

The Central Scrutinizer · 4th July 2009, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Gosh, how things change.

How do Americans feel about Brown these days?

Who?

DC · 5th July 2009, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

Da müsstest du schon UW fragen, ich hab keine Ahnung wieso er das Bedürfnis hatte, ausgerechnet diesen alten Thread auszugraben.

ah sorry, missed his post. thought you bumbed it.

eta: mmmhh Brownies

15th February 2003, 10:50 AM	#1
ntech JREF Kid Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Salisbury Mills, New York Posts: 812	Blair was brilliant today I saw Tony Blair live early this morning New York time and his speech was brilliant. You folks in England should be proud if him. He is intelligent, articulate and has a great sense of justice. I wish he could run for president of the US after his run in the UK. His vision of what must be done to insure the survival of the civilized world is extraordinary. Cheers Mr. Blair
	__________________ We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces. - Carl Sagan

15th February 2003, 12:51 PM	#2
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	What shocks and angers me is the euro-elites who call Blair a yes-man or a lapdog of Bush. Blair obviously has more class than his detractors combined.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

15th February 2003, 01:58 PM	#3
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Re: Blair was brilliant today Quote: Originally posted by ntech I saw Tony Blair live early this morning New York time and his speech was brilliant. You folks in England should be proud if him. He is intelligent, articulate and has a great sense of justice. I wish he could run for president of the US after his run in the UK. His vision of what must be done to insure the survival of the civilized world is extraordinary. Cheers Mr. Blair Yes, Blair is brilliant. He linked the humanitarian objective to the western objective and that was very important. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

15th February 2003, 02:06 PM	#4
Advocate Thinker Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 240	As I recall, Blair is a Labour Party PM. Correct me if I am wrong, but for the most part Labour is to the left of either of the major US parties. If the Democrats could find someone with as much guts and as much charisma as Blair, he'd be a sure thing for President. The man has class.
Advocate Thinker Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 240	__________________ John Milton: "I only set the stage. You pull your own strings." - The Devils Advocate

15th February 2003, 02:34 PM	#5
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,463	JK thinks blair is good? JK, he is to the left of the US democrats. I heard a part of his speech. It was well written, well presented and very pursuasive. Only problem is, it ignored a lot of points of interest. One of his his main points appeared to be, what about the poor bastards in Iraq, what are all these peace protestors doing for them? There are billions for people around under various forms of oppressive regimes. Why are we suddenly interested in this particular one? What is the objective of intervention for these people? What is the next country of people who are equally deserving of intervention, and the next? Are we going to get a list together and work our way up it? At what poing do we stop?
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

15th February 2003, 02:57 PM	#6
ntech JREF Kid Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Salisbury Mills, New York Posts: 812	Not until we are all safe and all counties are not repressed.
	__________________ We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces. - Carl Sagan

15th February 2003, 03:24 PM	#7
mbp Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 474	Quote: Originally posted by a_unique_person There are billions for people around under various forms of oppressive regimes. Why are we suddenly interested in this particular one? What is the objective of intervention for these people? What is the next country of people who are equally deserving of intervention, and the next? Are we going to get a list together and work our way up it? At what poing do we stop? I think he did address this. At least indirectly. He said: Quote: The moral case against war has a moral answer: it is the moral case for removing Saddam. It is not the reason we act. That must be according to the UN mandate on weapons of mass destruction. But it is the reason, frankly, why if we do have to act, we should do so with a clear conscience. So the other oppressive regimes have nothing to fear as long as they don't violate UN Security Council resolutions. Even if a moral case can be made against them.

15th February 2003, 03:32 PM	#8
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	Quote: Originally posted by mbp So the other oppressive regimes have nothing to fear as long as they don't violate UN Security Council resolutions. Even if a moral case can be made against them. Until I become President. Or Clinton becomes president again, for that matter. There were no UN Sec. Council resolutions against Serbia. MattJ
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

15th February 2003, 03:39 PM	#9
mbp Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 474	Quote: Originally posted by aerocontrols Until I become President. Or Clinton becomes president again, for that matter. There were no UN Sec. Council resolutions against Serbia. All true. I should have said: "They are safe from Tony Blair, according to the speech he made today" (or yesterday over here). And I didn't mean it as criticism. I was just pointing out that what he said didn't logically require him to go to war with every oppressive regime on the planet.

15th February 2003, 03:52 PM	#10
Advocate Thinker Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 240	Quote: Originally posted by ntech Not until we are all safe and all counties are not repressed. I agree with you in principle. But how safe is safe enough? And exactly what qualifies as repression? These are not easy questions. Iraq and North Korea are obviously threatening and repressive. But what about Iran? Saudi Arabia? Venezuela? Nigeria? All of these are hostile to some extent and could be classified as repressive as well, but none of them (IMHO) are as bad as Iraq or North Korea. Still, it depends on how you define "safe" and "repressed". We can never be perfectly safe and there will always be repression in the world. I suspect a lot of our political debate in the next few years is going to be about how safe is safe enough.
Advocate Thinker Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 240	__________________ John Milton: "I only set the stage. You pull your own strings." - The Devils Advocate

15th February 2003, 07:22 PM	#11
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,572	Quote: Originally posted by a_unique_person JK thinks blair is good? JK, he is to the left of the US democrats. LOL. JK has no idea who Tony Blair even is.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

15th February 2003, 07:39 PM	#12
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer LOL. JK has no idea who Tony Blair even is. I know who Blair is and even when a leftist like Blair does a good thing I will give him credit for it. I am not like leftists who think anyone close to center of the political spectrum is a right-wing extremist. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

15th February 2003, 11:53 PM	#13
Reginald Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,641	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight I know who Blair is and even when a leftist like Blair does a good thing I will give him credit for it. I am not like leftists who think anyone close to center of the political spectrum is a right-wing extremist. JK I agree you are not, you are a right-wing extremist who think anyone close to center of the political spectrum is a leftist.
	__________________ No one's in the dark, no one's in the corner and no one's in the wardrobe just waiting to pounce.

16th February 2003, 08:18 AM	#14
Nikk Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,249	Re: Blair was brilliant today Quote: Originally posted by ntech I saw Tony Blair live early this morning New York time and his speech was brilliant. You folks in England should be proud if him. He is intelligent, articulate and has a great sense of justice. I wish he could run for president of the US after his run in the UK. His vision of what must be done to insure the survival of the civilized world is extraordinary. Cheers Mr. Blair In fact I think that he might not relish another big job, he's starting to look rather exhausted. On the other hand how about Cherie? Its time you had a female president, she's energetic, very smart, not unattractive and has Irish connections. She would be a natural! OK she would probably reorganise your ABM system on Feng Shui principles but I am sure that it would work just as well!
Nikk Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,249

16th February 2003, 11:44 PM	#15
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	If you want Blair you are most welcome to him! Hes a bit like chocolate- nice at first. Addictive even? but after a while it becomes nauseating and you just wish it would stop stop! STOP! OH MY GOOD GOD MAKE HIM STOOOPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

17th February 2003, 03:42 AM	#16
LillyThePink Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 563	We should leave george to stew in his lack of global popularity and sort out that Mugabe git. At least then we'd be focussing on a problem that is actually part of the fricking commonwealth.
LillyThePink Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 563	__________________ Old men are dangerous: it doesn't matter to them what is going to happen to the world - George Bernard Shaw I'm pink, therefore I'm spam - just for Sou

4th July 2009, 02:00 AM	#17
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,904	Gosh, how things change. How do Americans feel about Brown these days?
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945 Last edited by Undesired Walrus; 4th July 2009 at 02:22 AM.

4th July 2009, 02:10 AM	#18
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,370	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus Gosh, how things change. How do American's feel about Brown these days? Brown-nose?
	__________________

4th July 2009, 02:14 AM	#19
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Was graebst du hier so alte Kühe aus?
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

4th July 2009, 02:38 AM	#20
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,370	Originally Posted by Dictator Cheney Was graebst du hier so alte Kühe aus? Da müsstest du schon UW fragen, ich hab keine Ahnung wieso er das Bedürfnis hatte, ausgerechnet diesen alten Thread auszugraben.
	__________________

4th July 2009, 02:47 AM	#21
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,904	It's just childish Oliver.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

4th July 2009, 02:51 AM	#22
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,370	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus It's just childish Oliver. Supposing that you know what we wrote in German, why was it a childish decision from your side to bump the thread? - I mean, what was your intention and the current event that led to your decision to bump it?
	__________________

4th July 2009, 03:40 AM	#23
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,904	Interest in how Americans view British PM's, realised how popular Blair was in the US, wondered how things have changed since 2003. Interest. Why not have some context to my query? Quote: Da müsstest du schon UW fragen, ich hab keine Ahnung wieso er das Bedürfnis hatte, ausgerechnet diesen alten Thread auszugraben Now you know. I dug it up for context. It's childish to try and block the rest of us out by talking in German. More so when you don't realise a few of us can understand it.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945 Last edited by Undesired Walrus; 4th July 2009 at 03:43 AM.

4th July 2009, 03:48 AM	#24
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,370	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus Interest in how Americans view British PM's, realised how popular Blair was in the US, wondered how things have changed since 2003. Interest. Why not have some context to my query? Now you know. I dug it up for context. It's childish to try and block the rest of us out by talking in German. More so when you don't realise a few of us can understand it. Quite frankly, reading US/UK/ME/German-News and assuming that the name Blair isn't as familiar to Americans than it is to Germans, why should I try to guess what Americans think since he and UK-Politics isn't a big issue anyway? I have no idea what the current mood is about Brown. Maybe the Americans responding so far in this thread may be able to explain the differences in their opinion back then and now - if they did change their minds about him for some reason. Well, I was replying to Dictator Cheney's German question since he assumed I did bump the old thread, which I didn't do. So I asked him to ask you personally about why you bumped it. I don't see why this short conversation is relevant to the topic at hand - nor why I should've translated the rather unimportant sentences in the first place.
	__________________ Last edited by Oliver; 4th July 2009 at 03:59 AM. Reason: tranlsation, spelling

4th July 2009, 07:54 AM	#25
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,572	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus Gosh, how things change. How do Americans feel about Brown these days? Who?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

5th July 2009, 03:58 AM	#26
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,708	Originally Posted by Oliver Da müsstest du schon UW fragen, ich hab keine Ahnung wieso er das Bedürfnis hatte, ausgerechnet diesen alten Thread auszugraben. ah sorry, missed his post. thought you bumbed it. eta: mmmhh Brownies
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it