Global Warming Scam or Scare of the Week

[mhaze]

This is a thread for discussing Scams and Scares which are based on misstated science or logical fallacies of the sciences of climatology, and which then may be used for monetary gain, political purposes, or simply to scare people about Global Warming.

It is NOT a thread for discussing subjects on which the science is incomplete and thus on which reasonable discussion can be had with differing points of view.

Three examples, all of which appear to be currently marketed scams based on incorrect or misstated science -

(go on my chartered expedition to...) "Warming Island"

(give us your money and we'll supply...)"Carbon Offsets"

(give my greenie company your hard earned cash to)..."Plant trees to save the planet"

"Katrina is Bush's Fault" (because he didn't do enough to prevent AGW and AGW was a factor in Katrina)

Have fun!

[fuelair]

Your fourth, humorously, is both laughably stupid and absolutely correct. Laughably stupid, because nothing Bush could have done re:GlW could have had any effect on stopping/preventing Katrina as a storm (insufficient time even if all possible things had been done in the US). But, if you eliminate the formation and movement of Katrina and concentrate on what most people mean when they blame Bush for Katrina - that he did much too little to back up/aid evac and then recovery, they are perfectly correct. He is and always has been a vindictive piece of crap so his people helped republicker Mississippi et al. and left Democrats in Louisiana to swing in the wind.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by fuelair

Your fourth, humorously, is both laughably stupid and absolutely correct. Laughably stupid, because nothing Bush could have done re:GlW could have had any effect on stopping/preventing Katrina as a storm (insufficient time even if all possible things had been done in the US). But, if you eliminate the formation and movement of Katrina and concentrate on what most people mean when they blame Bush for Katrina....

Yep, it's the part where it is (not uncommonly, either) alleged that his actions in "not doing enough to prevent AGW" helped increase the intensity of Katrina-

I think we can conclude that was a scam.

How did the twisted logic go - it was either from Robert Kennedy or Daily Kos, or Kennedy on Kos - something like "Katrina was Bush's fault because he didn't sign the Kyoto Protocal!"

Stuck on Stupid?

[mhaze]

5. Bruce Sterling's piece in Wired where he actually alleges the fault for the Chinese miners drowning is the Western World's fault, due to their production of greenhouse gases.

(((There's not a coal mine in the world that could avert nine inches of sudden Greenhouse rain. Those miners were digging their own graves.)))

Yep, sure Brucie....wait....you ever heard of rainy seasons? Monsoons? Pumps that nobody bothered to turn on? No? Didn't think so.

A complete fabrication, a lie, a scare tactic.

Not a scam that involves the tranfer of money, though!

[mhaze]

Monbiot! Always good for a scam or a scare!

"in this case our moral responsibility is incontestable, if somewhat difficult to comprehend: every time you turn on your kettle in Birmingham, you’re helping to flood Bangladesh"

Uhhh....yes, it is a bit difficult to comprehend there...

Probably because it isn't Comprehendable. No, it must be our problem, we are all just stupid and you, Monbiot, are really smart? Wait...Monbiot isn't even a scientist but is just a lame journalist? He doesn't even know this stuff? Ok, just wild ravings.

A scare.

[Hindmost]

Just post links to all the other threads on global warming...

glenn

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by mhaze

Monbiot! Always good for a scam or a scare!

"in this case our moral responsibility is incontestable, if somewhat difficult to comprehend: every time you turn on your kettle in Birmingham, you’re helping to flood Bangladesh"

Uhhh....yes, it is a bit difficult to comprehend there...

The Open University's excellent course on climate change spells it out for you:

http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/reso....php?id=172101

Quote:

Switching on a kettle’ is linked to sea-level rise by the following chain of 'cause-and-effect’ relationships:

- burning fossil fuels (e.g. in a power station) causes the release of CO2 to the atmosphere;

- and has resulted in a build up of the gas since pre-industrial times;

- the effect is a temporary reduction in the longwave emission to space, disturbing the radiation balance at the top of the atmosphere and producing a positive radiative forcing of climate;

- which has a warming effect, causing an increase in GMST;

- higher temperatures, in turn, cause the thermal expansion of seawater and the melting of land ice;

- increasing the volume of water in the ocean, and leading to sea-level rise.

Eight years on from Monbiot's article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...india.flooding

Quote:

Time runs out for islanders on global warming's front line

Lohachara island, once visible from Ghoramara, a mile to the east, is already gone beneath the waves, succumbing to the ocean two years ago, leaving more than 7,000 people homeless. Ghoramara itself has lost a third of its land mass in the past five years. To the north, Sagar island already houses 20,000 refugees from the tides.

According to the geologist Sugata Hazra, who is the director of the School of Oceanography Studies at Kolkata's Jadavpur University, the people of the Sundarbans are the first global-warming refugees.

He said: 'These people are victims of global warming. The accelerated melt of the Himalayan glacier is producing larger volumes of water in the rivers, water that violently carves its way through the flat delta where they live. The Sundarbans and the four million people who inhabit the Indian side are dreadfully vulnerable. The area has lost 72 square miles of land in the past few decades. This entire region is holding back a disaster and could ultimately serve as a warning of what is to come.'

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Originally Posted by mhaze
Monbiot! Always good for a scam or a scare!
"in this case our moral responsibility is incontestable, if somewhat difficult to comprehend: every time you turn on your kettle in Birmingham, you’re helping to flood Bangladesh"

Uhhh....yes, it is a bit difficult to comprehend there...

The Open University's excellent course on climate change spells it out for you:

http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/reso....php?id=172101

Quote:
Switching on a kettle’ is linked to sea-level rise by the following chain of 'cause-and-effect’ relationships:

- burning fossil fuels (e.g. in a power station) causes the release of CO2 to the atmosphere;
- and has resulted in a build up of the gas since pre-industrial times;
- the effect is a temporary reduction in the longwave emission to space, disturbing the radiation balance at the top of the atmosphere and producing a positive radiative forcing of climate;
- which has a warming effect, causing an increase in GMST;
- higher temperatures, in turn, cause the thermal expansion of seawater and the melting of land ice;
- increasing the volume of water in the ocean, and leading to sea-level rise.

Yes, Pixel42, there are several unproven hypotheses in this grouping of possible cause and possible effects of (possible) causes. Even if everything lined up exactly as alleged in your Open Univ rundown, then we would be using grossly exaggerated hyperbole in a scare tactic.

So this is apparently an acknowledged scare tactic, taught as a textbook example.

By the way. Obviously a student who considered that the kettle being switched on might have no effect on Bangladesh because upstream power might be from wind, solar, or nuclear would get a failing grade.

A scare tactic. Not a scam until it is used to justify taxation, fines or penalties based on the purported "science".

Who funded that Open Univ. document? The British Government, right?

Hmm....may be a scam, after all.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Eight years on from Monbiot's article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...india.flooding

Quote:
Time runs out for islanders on global warming's front line

Lohachara island, once visible from Ghoramara, a mile to the east, is already gone beneath the waves, succumbing to the ocean two years ago, leaving more than 7,000 people homeless. Ghoramara itself has lost a third of its land mass in the past five years. To the north, Sagar island already houses 20,000 refugees from the tides.

According to the geologist Sugata Hazra, who is the director of the School of Oceanography Studies at Kolkata's Jadavpur University, the people of the Sundarbans are the first global-warming refugees.

He said: 'These people are victims of global warming. The accelerated melt of the Himalayan glacier is producing larger volumes of water in the rivers, water that violently carves its way through the flat delta where they live. The Sundarbans and the four million people who inhabit the Indian side are dreadfully vulnerable. The area has lost 72 square miles of land in the past few decades. This entire region is holding back a disaster and could ultimately serve as a warning of what is to come.'

Very interesting, thanks. It would appear this is a clear example of scare tactics in the media. I say this after examining a bit of the science, but others have done so. Not only Desmogblog but Tim Lamberg also say this isn't an example of global warming but sensational and irresponsible reporting.

Unbelievable-something I agree with them on!

Tim Lambert (bold mine) -

Did Global Warming claim an inhabited island? Category: Global Warming
Posted on: December 31, 2006 10:09 AM, by Tim Lambert

"... sea level rise was just one of the factors. And sea level rise can also be caused by land sinking as well as the ocean rising. I found a scientific paper on the topic by Gopinath and Seralathan in Environmental Geology. (Yes, the same journal that published Khilyuk and Chilingar's tripe.) Gopinath and Seralathan studied Sagar island which is just 1 km from where Lohachara used to be, so their conclusions apply to Lohachara as well. They found that reduced flows in the river were causing sediments to be deposited further upstream instead of replacing erosion at Sagar island. Furthermore, the major cause of the relative sea level rise which made for more erosion, was land subsidence, not global warming.

So it is wrong to blame Global Warming for the disappearance of Lohachara island."

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by mhaze

there are several unproven hypotheses in this grouping of possible cause and possible effects of (possible) causes.

Every step is simple high school physics.

Quote:

Even if everything lined up exactly as alleged in your Open Univ rundown, then we would be using grossly exaggerated hyperbole in a scare tactic.

I call it using a specific example to illustrate a concept.

Quote:

Obviously a student who considered that the kettle being switched on might have no effect on Bangladesh because upstream power might be from wind, solar, or nuclear would get a failing grade.

The question is a self-assessment opportunity, so the student can check their understanding of the preceeding sections. So any student who failed to grasp what kind of power stations the question was implying would indeed deserve to fail the course. Though even the kind of power sources you list cause the emission of some CO2 in their construction and operation.

Quote:

Who funded that Open Univ. document? The British Government, right?
Hmm....may be a scam, after all.

Only someone in an advanced state of paranoid delusion would suggest that the OU is a mouthpiece for government propaganda. That's almost as ridiculous as suggesting the BBC is. Oh wait, you've suggested that too, haven't you?

Incidentally I thought this thread was for 'scare' stories of the week? There must be very few of them indeed if you are reduced to digging up an eight-year-old article.

And the idea that the loss of 72 square miles of land in the Ganges delta has nothing whatever to do with the fact that 67% of Himalyan glaciers are retreating rapidly is simply laughable.

http://assets.panda.org/downloads/hi...report2005.pdf

[TellyKNeasuss]

Yawn. More tiresome posts by someone whose total education in meteorology/climatology is limited to reading newspaper articles and GW denier blogs.

[David Rodale]

Let's make this very simple. Global warming causes......everything!
http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, Africa in conflict, aggressive weeds, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, beer shortage, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds return early, birds driven north, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blizzards, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain Siberian, British gardens change, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, cataracts, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, cloud stripping, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , cost of trillions, cougar attacks, cradle of civilisation threatened, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid's health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, death rate increase (US), Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, disappearance of coastal cities, diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, Earth wobbling, earthquakes, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, gorillas, walrus, whales, frogs, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, penguins, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches), experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers go under, fashion disaster, fever,figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, god melts, golf Masters wrecked, Gore omnipresence, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed,heart disease,heart attacks and strokes (Australia),heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health improvement, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, ice shelf collapse, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, killing us, kitten boom, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows,monuments imperiled, moose dying,more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountains break up, mountains melting, mountains taller, mortality lower, narwhals at risk, National security implications, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, plants march north, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears drowning, polar bears starve, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snowfall reduction, soaring food prices, societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed,, trees could return to Antarctic, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, turtles crash, turtles lay earlier, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, water bills double, water supply unreliability, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weeds, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales move north, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss

Yawn. More tiresome posts by someone whose total education in meteorology/climatology is limited to reading newspaper articles and GW denier blogs.

Note this thread is "scams and scares", so it is quite likely to draw heavily on print, TV and other pop media.

Originally Posted by Pixel42

And the idea that the loss of 72 square miles of land in the Ganges delta has nothing whatever to do with the fact that 67% of Himalyan glaciers are retreating rapidly is simply laughable.

http://assets.panda.org/downloads/hi...report2005.pdf

If major pro AGW sources, the peer reviewed literature, and the sceptics say this is a scare, I have a hard time not agreeing.

Two questions.

• How much of a sealevel rise was there in that delta ?
• How many sq. miles of New Islands formed?

simply laughable

Examining scientific findings and evidence to reach conclusions is the method.

Originally Posted by Pixel42

Quote:
Who funded that Open Univ. document? The British Government, right?
Hmm....may be a scam, after all.

Only someone in an advanced state of paranoid delusion would suggest that the OU is a mouthpiece for government propaganda. That's almost as ridiculous as suggesting the BBC is. Oh wait, you've suggested that too, haven't you?

I had good comments re BBC in general, and pegged Richard Black as a propagandist. Open U. looks pretty scammy from your excerpts.

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by David Rodale

Let's make this very simple. Global warming causes......everything!
http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, Africa in conflict, aggressive weeds, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, beer shortage, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds return early, birds driven north, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blizzards, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain Siberian, British gardens change, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, cataracts, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, cloud stripping, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , cost of trillions, cougar attacks, cradle of civilisation threatened, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid's health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, death rate increase (US), Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, disappearance of coastal cities, diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, Earth wobbling, earthquakes, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, gorillas, walrus, whales, frogs, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, penguins, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches), experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers go under, fashion disaster, fever,figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, god melts, golf Masters wrecked, Gore omnipresence, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed,heart disease,heart attacks and strokes (Australia),heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health improvement, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, ice shelf collapse, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, killing us, kitten boom, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows,monuments imperiled, moose dying,more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountains break up, mountains melting, mountains taller, mortality lower, narwhals at risk, National security implications, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, plants march north, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears drowning, polar bears starve, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snowfall reduction, soaring food prices, societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed,, trees could return to Antarctic, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, turtles crash, turtles lay earlier, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, water bills double, water supply unreliability, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weeds, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales move north, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

Is it too much to take in all at once? Maybe you should just read them one at a time. Even if only half of them are correct, things are changing, often for the worse.

Rooftop Bars? Yes, all these open air dining areas have been opening up in Melbourne, which I thought was insane when I first saw it because Melbourne is usually cold, wet and Miserable. As the author notes, we are now getting milder weather, so it's a viable option.

What exactly is your point? That AGW couldn't possibly cause so many issues? It's global change, that is, it affects the whole globe, at the same time, and it's affecting our climate. Everything depends on climate. How could it be any other way?

[Pixel42]

Originally Posted by mhaze

Two questions

How much of a sealevel rise was there in that delta ?

An average of about 2.5 mm per year since the 1950s

http://www.survas.mdx.ac.uk/pdfs/3dikshas.pdf

Quote:

How many sq. miles of New Islands formed?

I couldn't find that information in a couple of minutes googling, but no-one doubts that there's been a net loss. India is building a fence (from the original article):

Quote:

Today the frontier between the countries is defined by two rows of 10ft barbed-wire barriers. In New Delhi the belief is that the fence is being built to 'keep in' an anticipated flood of refugees from Bangladesh, a crowded country more prone to devastating floods than anywhere else on the planet.

'You've got an increasing population with a violently shrinking land mass,' said Ajai Sahni, head of the New Delhi-based Institute for Conflict Management, who worries that the Indian government is not building the fence fast enough.

Quote:

Open U. looks pretty scammy from your excerpts.

And yet you have never been able to refute a single word of it. The only valid criticism of the OU course that you've ever made is that some of the data quoted is not the latest available.

[Cuddles]

I think I'm with Mhaze on the general idea of the thread, although not necessarily on the specifics. The fact is, there are a lot of cases of people blaming things on global warming where there just isn't evidence, and often where such claims are blatantly silly. There can also be little argument that this is often done for personal, political or economic gain.

Things like fuel magnets to reduce car emissions are an obvious example. These have been around since well before global warming was thought about, but the modern versions certainly use the public awareness of CO₂ to try to cash in. And there can be little doubt that politicians love to use the whole "This disaster was caused by X, and my policies would have prevented it. Vote for me." argument, and that global warming is often used as the X.

I think it is important to point out the false cries of global warming, otherwise people become jaded and when there is a real problem, they no longer take any notice. Unfortunately I think we may have already reached this point, and it often seems that many deniers are in that camp not because of the science, but simply because they've got fed up of people constantly blaming global warming for pretty much everything.

[mhaze]

Latest Global Warming Scare Tactic:

"America Will Become Colonized by Giant Snakes"
By Debbie Schlussel
They tried horror movies designed to scare you. Then they tried horror movies designed to scare your kids into scaring you. Now the shrieking global warming crowd has a far more effective new scare tactic. They're taking advantage of the most common phobia: fear of snakes.


Pythons could squeeze lower third of USA
By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY
As climate change warms the nation, giant Burmese pythons could colonize one-third of the USA, from San Francisco across the Southwest, Texas and the South and up north along the Virginia coast, according to U.S. Geological Survey maps released Wednesday.
The pythons can be 20 feet long and 250 pounds. They are highly adaptable to new environments.
Two federal agencies — the USGS and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service — are investigating the range of nine invasive snakes in Florida..... examined Burmese pythons first and, based on where they live in Asia, estimated where they might live here. One map shows where the pythons could live today, an area that expands when scientists use global warming models for 2100.
"We were surprised.....They are moving northward, there's no question."

[Spud1k]

Over-sensationalised reports of the effects or predicted effects of global warming are the bane of my existence as an atmospheric scientist. The media does what it always does and latches onto the biggest and best headline grabbers out there and when they are later revealed to be exaggerated or baseless, it makes the science as a whole look bad in the eyes of the general public. The truth is that the more measured outlooks have already become boring in the press' eye.

That's not to say everything you read in the papers is bunk - there are plenty of reports out there that could be described as a fair representation of the state of the science. It's just that even in the supposedly reputable news sources, it can be difficult for an untrained person to tell the difference.

Can't say I agree with buying trees to offset your carbon footprint either. This is akin to buying indulgences in medieval churches. A privileged few planting a couple of trees is hardly going to make a difference and it's not as if every fossil fuel using person in the world can afford to pay people to plant trees on their behalf.

[Spud1k]

Originally Posted by mhaze

Latest Global Warming Scare Tactic:

"America Will Become Colonized by Giant Snakes"
By Debbie Schlussel They tried horror movies designed to scare you. Then they tried horror movies designed to scare your kids into scaring you. Now the shrieking global warming crowd has a far more effective new scare tactic. They're taking advantage of the most common phobia: fear of snakes.

Case and point. My understanding was that the Burmese Python thing was more to do with people's pets escaping rather than global warming, but someone (no idea who) puts an AGW sticker on it and next thing you know, people have turned it around and are using it to undermine climate science in general.

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by mhaze

Latest Global Warming Scare Tactic:

"America Will Become Colonized by Giant Snakes"
By Debbie Schlussel
They tried horror movies designed to scare you. Then they tried horror movies designed to scare your kids into scaring you. Now the shrieking global warming crowd has a far more effective new scare tactic. They're taking advantage of the most common phobia: fear of snakes.

Odin help me, now you're citing Debbie f'in Schlussel, a whack job and a half if there ever was one. For what purpose? Surely not to shed light.

Quote:

Pythons could squeeze lower third of USA
By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY
As climate change warms the nation, giant Burmese pythons could colonize one-third of the USA, from San Francisco across the Southwest, Texas and the South and up north along the Virginia coast, according to U.S. Geological Survey maps released Wednesday.
The pythons can be 20 feet long and 250 pounds. They are highly adaptable to new environments.
Two federal agencies — the USGS and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service — are investigating the range of nine invasive snakes in Florida..... examined Burmese pythons first and, based on where they live in Asia, estimated where they might live here. One map shows where the pythons could live today, an area that expands when scientists use global warming models for 2100.
"We were surprised.....They are moving northward, there's no question."

Here's the source info from USGS (which you could have googled in 2 seconds flat.) What precisely has USGS or USA Today written that is not factual?

[mhaze]

Quote:

Odin help me, now you're citing Debbie f'in Schlussel, a whack job and a half if there ever was one.

Does Odin help when you call on him in moments of dire distress, as when someone has the Audacity of Hope to quote a Right Winger?

Relax. It's just the "GW Scam or Scare of the Week" Thread.

No one said you are ....not Entitled to Believe in the Scam or Scare!

Be my guest!

Wait... Better not relax. Them'er big snakes.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by Spud1k

Over-sensationalised reports of the effects or predicted effects of global warming are the bane of my existence as an atmospheric scientist. .......

It's a real problem...10-20 years of this and the public will be so sick of it the'll never listen about anything.

Quote:

Can't say I agree with buying trees to offset your carbon footprint either. This is akin to buying indulgences in medieval churches. A privileged few planting a couple of trees is hardly going to make a difference and it's not as if every fossil fuel using person in the world can afford to pay people to plant trees on their behalf.

For the most part buying trees to offset your carbon footprint is just a scam. I don't think that it started out that way, though.

[David Rodale]

Surge in fatal shark attacks blamed on global warming

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by mhaze

Does Odin help when you call on him in moments of dire distress, as when someone has the Audacity of Hope to quote a Right Winger?

Relax. It's just the "GW Scam or Scare of the Week" Thread.

No one said you are ....not Entitled to Believe in the Scam or Scare!

Be my guest!

Wait... Better not relax. Them'er big snakes.

How about addressing my question...?

Originally Posted by varwoche

What precisely has USGS or USA Today written that is not factual?

[a_unique_person]

Originally Posted by David Rodale

Surge in fatal shark attacks blamed on global warming

You have completely misrepresented what that article says.

[Pixel42]

The irony is that I was had assumed that there were lots of exaggerated stories about global warming in the gutter press, given how happy they usually are to increase their circulation by telling scary lies about anything from the level of immigration to the "dangers" of getting your children vaccinated. But our resident deniers seem to be having great difficulty finding any examples. Why would that be? One possible explanation springs to mind.

[Megalodon]

Originally Posted by David Rodale

Surge in fatal shark attacks blamed on global warming

Good! That's a very good example... let's look at what that 484 word article has to say about global warming:

"Another contributory factor to the location of shark attacks could be global warming and rising sea temperatures. 'You'll find that some species will begin to appear in places they didn't in the past with some regularity,' he said."

That's it... However, in the editor's mind, the best headline had to include global warming. Quite pathetic, really.

[Spud1k]

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Good! That's a very good example... let's look at what that 484 word article has to say about global warming:

"Another contributory factor to the location of shark attacks could be global warming and rising sea temperatures. 'You'll find that some species will begin to appear in places they didn't in the past with some regularity,' he said."

That's it... However, in the editor's mind, the best headline had to include global warming. Quite pathetic, really.

That's exactly my point. Global warming has become one of the stock scare phrases used by journos worldwide. A bit like blaming <insert social problem here> on immigration or gypsies. The annoying thing about this is that it is routinely used with the dreaded phrase "scientists think", so all of a sudden, it is scientists' fault in general rather than the crappy reporting.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by Spud1k

That's exactly my point. Global warming has become one of the stock scare phrases used by journos worldwide. A bit like blaming <insert social problem here> on immigration or gypsies. The annoying thing about this is that it is routinely used with the dreaded phrase "scientists think", so all of a sudden, it is scientists' fault in general rather than the crappy reporting.

Over 4.5 Billion people could die from Global Warming-related causes by 2012."

The author claims 4,500,000,000 dead in four years!

Commentary by Accuweather on this alarmist--

Think about that. The world's current population is a few ticks over 6.5 Billion, so this author is claiming that in a mere 5 years, almost three quarters of the world's population will have succumbed.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Originally Posted by David Rodale
Surge in fatal shark attacks blamed on global warming

You have completely misrepresented what that article says.

DR made no representation that could be misrepresented -

He only posted a link!

With who, then, do you lodge your complaint?

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by mhaze

Relax. It's just the "GW Scam or Scare of the Week" Thread.

OK, I'll take my notebook over to the hammock ... that's better! Now, for the 3rd time...

Originally Posted by varwoche

What precisely has USGS or USA Today written that is not factual?

Since you've ducked this question twice, I've made an interim assumption that you find no factual errors.

Meaning, the only aspect of the story that is a scam/scare of the week is loony Debbie Schlussel's strawman.

When you pile straw like this, the informative content of your thread reaches homeopathic levels.

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by varwoche

OK, I'll take my notebook over to the hammock ... that's better! Now, for the 3rd time... Since you've ducked this question twice, I've made an interim assumption that you find no factual errors.

Meaning, the only aspect of the story that is a scam/scare of the week is loony Debbie Schlussel's strawman.

When you pile straw like this, the informative content of your thread reaches homeopathic levels.

From the OP, which either you didn't read or understand -

This is a thread for discussing Scams and Scares which are based on misstated science or logical fallacies of the sciences of climatology, and which then may be used for monetary gain, political purposes, or simply to scare people about Global Warming.

It is NOT a thread for discussing subjects on which the science is incomplete and thus on which reasonable discussion can be had with differing points of view.

Now that you are safe in your hammock -
Ready for them twenty foot snakes?

(I know you believe they are coming!)

Hmm....Are you actually suggesting that a lot of the scare and scam stories come from left wing media and left wing organizations, and a lot of the ridicule or exposure of the scams and scares are going to come from right wing? I hadn't even thought of that, and hate to think of what it means....

Wait a minute...you don't have to worry. See post #29, we'll all be dead before it gets to lowdown scuffles with big snakes.

[mhaze]

AP article in the Washington Post, seriously warming Arctic:

The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone.

Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

OOPS. I may have goofed.

We're trying to do current scares and scams.

Is this one recent enough?

1922.

Thanks to moonbattery.com for this! Click through the link to the original 1922 article.

[rockoon]

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

You have completely misrepresented what that article says.

He quoted the title, fool.

[Spud1k]

Originally Posted by mhaze

Is this one recent enough?

[b]1922.

Umm.... the earth was actually going through a sustained period of warming at the time. What's your problem?

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by mhaze

From the OP, which either you didn't read or understand -

This is a thread for discussing Scams and Scares which are based on misstated science or logical fallacies of the sciences of climatology, and which then may be used for monetary gain, political purposes, or simply to scare people about Global Warming.

It is NOT a thread for discussing subjects on which the science is incomplete and thus on which reasonable discussion can be had with differing points of view.

Pardon me for being dense but I'm afraid I still don't understand. What aspect of the story makes it a scare/scam of the week? Is it because some people find snakes scary that it's a scare/scam of the week?

[Lucifuge Rofocale]

Today I heard the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Chile on local TV. He was blaming specifically AGW for the eruption of the Chaiten Volcano in his country.

[Spud1k]

Originally Posted by Lucifuge Rofocale

Today I heard the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Chile on local TV. He was blaming specifically AGW for the eruption of the Chaiten Volcano in his country.

I'd LOVE to hear the logic behind that one. It just sounds like a really lame way of trying to claim compensation from the USA.

[Lucifuge Rofocale]

No logic, just attributions. I'm quoting from memory :

"The recent climate change is causing damages to thid world countries like the recent disaster in Myanmar and the eruption of the Chaiten volcano in our country. We should focus on sustainable development and CO2 reduction to avoid tragedies like those, or our world has no future".

[mhaze]

Originally Posted by varwoche

[/indent]Pardon me for being dense but I'm afraid I still don't understand. What aspect of the story makes it a scare/scam of the week? Is it because some people find snakes scary that it's a scare/scam of the week?

No pardons granted here!

What's your AGW scare of the week? You've been mired deep in the trenches of gloomy forecasters and dubious denizens of warmology, you must have heard some really good ones.