The ongoing troofer campaign against JREF!

[kookbreaker]

Sorry about the delay in responding to this:

Originally Posted by dommyboysinjapan

kookbreaker,

Why do you make this hasty conclusion? If Paul Isaac Jr.'s opinion didn't matter to me than why would I have bothered to link to an article about what he had said in the first place?

Because you basicly just grabbed a link and posted it without any real thought or research. A handful of minutes on this forum would have shown your claim about what he said was a lie.

Quote:

How would I know that 'Sentinel' is Paul Isaac? I linked an article where he said that 9/11 was an inside job. Can you show me any evidence at all that he feels he was misquoted or are you just all talk? If you can, I will look at it.

Its on this forum. If you cannot be bothered to do basic research I will not be doing it for you. Start by searching under his name, for starters.

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Again your 'guesses' toward the magnitude of my sincerity are unimpressive. I showed you an actual news article.

AFP is truly stretching the definition of 'actual news article'.

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So far, all you have shown me is your own opinions and your own speculation that I don't care about his opinions. Why don't you try showing me any kind of evidence at all that he was misquoted instead of speculating that I don't care. I am interested in seeing if there is any evidence at all to back your claim. If I wasn't interested in looking at the evidence I wouldn't have posted on this forum. Is there any?

Again, this has all been covered before. Just because you failed to search for it does not make it our problem. But like all CTers you are convinced that you are the only person who ever brough 'X' to our attention.

[Disbelief]

Originally Posted by dommyboysinjapan

Disbelief,


I simply haven't gotten to Barrett yet. That's all. The link was a big site and I couldn't find the exact comment that was apparently so contentious. Just give me a while to read it through or better yet, give me a direct quote from Barrett. You seem pretty quick on the draw saying that I "utilize double standards" even though I said that Avery and Bermas' age doesn't excuse their behaviour and that they should apologize. What more would you expect?

Sheesh, and they call ME a conspiracy theorist.

So, have you managed to get to Barrett yet? It's been almost a week, so maybe you have taken the little time you said you would.

[dommyboysinjapan]

kookbreaker,

Quote:

Because you basicly just grabbed a link and posted it without any real thought or research. A handful of minutes on this forum would have shown your claim about what he said was a lie.

I have been looking around this site and have found nothing to show that Mr. Isaac feels he was misquoted. If you can provide any evidence at all that he has stated that he was misquoted then I would ask you to present it. You said that the 'claim about what he said was a lie.' Whose lying? Got evidence?

Quote:

Its on this forum. If you cannot be bothered to do basic research I will not be doing it for you. Start by searching under his name, for starters.

Whining about someone else's ability to do research is not debunking. Got any evidence that Mr. Isaac feels that he was misquoted?

Quote:

AFP is truly stretching the definition of 'actual news article'.

It may not be the greatest news source in the world but its still a news article and it is one more news source than you have provided.

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Again, this has all been covered before. Just because you failed to search for it does not make it our problem. But like all CTers you are convinced that you are the only person who ever brough 'X' to our attention.

I am well aware of the fact that sometimes the same arguements may get repeated from time to time on some broad topics on this large forum. I am also sure that you feel that only ctists repeat arguements that have already previously been made. The fact remains that you have yet to provide any proof whatsoever that Paul Isaac feels that his words were taken out of context. FYI the search that I did about Sentinel shows him to be questioning the mainstream theories and the usual mainstream cheerleaders trying to debunk his claims. This is all I've seen. Your remarks about my research abilities amounts to nothing more than insults. I suspect this is the only method that you have to try to debunk Mr. Isaac's statement. This is not debunking.

[dommyboysinjapan]

TexasJack,

Quote:

Right off the bat you provide a video with quote mining in it, this time using Louie Cacchioli(who was none to happy about it) and others who were quoted out of context. http://www.911myths.com/html/quote_abuse.html

I have already been to this debunking site many times. It is probably one of the best ones on the net (other than JREF). I say this because it presents the arguements and then their veiwpoints based on facts as opposed to straw men, red herrings, guilt by association, and attempts to discredit the ct theorists as opposed to their theories as is common with many of the other debunking sites. Having said that the problem I have is this: The majority of the quotes that were said to be taken out of context clearly were not. These were the direct quotes that were said at the time and even if the firefighters have been given different explanations after the fact it really doesn't change their perceptions of what was happening at that time. I also have yet to see a firefighter on video saying that their comments were taken out of context. The debunking sites are little more than heresay.

Quote:

The problem with many truthers(I'm not saying you, I find you to be more pleasant then most btw) is that they want the investigation to be all so symmetrical, that every discrepancy equals conspiracy.

Thank you for your kind words.
I think your point about quantifying the 1200 testimonies is important. I don't know if you are familiar with Professor Graeme MacQeen's research or not but he had studied all the testimonies in order to put it in perspective to see if the cters had a leg to stand on. This was his results:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4dVo5QgYg

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And finally, why do you dismiss "sometimes 'things' like transformers or perhaps other electric equipment will blow up and cause huge explosive sounds' when they do occur in fires? They do happen, don't they?

I dismiss this because the explosions that had reportedly lifted people off the ground or thrown them several feet surely couldn't be just a transformer or office equipment exploding. It doesn't make sense to me.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by dommyboysinjapan

kookbreaker,
I have been looking around this site and have found nothing to show that Mr. Isaac feels he was misquoted. If you can provide any evidence at all that he has stated that he was misquoted then I would ask you to present it. You said that the 'claim about what he said was a lie.' Whose lying? Got evidence?

Oh! For FSM's sake. This took me 10 seconds to find and it was only that long because the forum is running slow:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...45#post1830945

Quote:

Hello Mark,

If its the wingtv article its ********. They slandered me last year when I read them the riot act about their behavior.

The article" Fireman admits again 9-11 was an inside job" is slander.

The article written by randy lavello is also slander as he has me saying that woolsey former CIA Director Woolsey was passing a gag order down the rank and file of the FDNY. That statement was never made in that context, It was said in humor ,and as a matter of fact that so-called reporter was fired by Alex Jones for making **** up on alot of people. The only reason I didn't go through the legal channels is because lawyers cost to damn much.

So the true statement was the that I heard Explosions not bombs as I couldn't tell what the sounds were as I was blocks away and can not confirm what the noise was. As I was aproaching City Hall the North Tower began the collapse I heard what sounded like thunder just prior to the collapse then the Popping as the tower fell. I had my radio scanner and there were reports of explsions within the conplex over the PD and PAPD frequencies. As I made my way closer I could pick up on the FD Handie Talkie frequencies and it sounded like hell. No one new what the was going to happen next but when the second tower began its fall there were what sounded like loud popping coming from the tower as well as a sucking sound like reveres air pressure.

Its seems the people at 911Truth have some problems with credibility as I had approached them on this issue for clarification. No need to say they never returned my messages.

They are tools of the trade.

Take care
Paul

Could you be any lazier? Why do we debunkers always have to end up doing your work for you? I guess loving them neo-nazi articles is more important that finding out the reality of the situation.

This letter also does not include Mark Roberts' and Abby Scott's conversations with Paul Issac at ground zero where he confirmed what was said in the email.

Mind you, Isaac does have some crazy ideas. But none than support your claims.

[dommyboysinjapan]

kookbreaker,

Quote:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...45#post1830945

This quote is from Mr. Roberts not from Sentinel (Mr. Isaac). It is heresay. Congratulations on being able to find this alleged letter from Mr. Isaac so quickly.

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Could you be any lazier?

Imagine the nerve of me. Asking you to support a claim that you had made on a skeptic's forum.

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Why do we debunkers always have to end up doing your work for you?

This is a public forum. You don't "have to" do anything. BTW why don't you go to the Truther sites and read Dr. Griffin's books if you still disagree? Why is it we Truthers always have to end up doing your work for you? It must be because you are "lazy."
LOL

Quote:

I guess loving them neo-nazi articles is more important that finding out the reality of the situation.

I would rather trust a news article than an e-mail that someone says is from Paul Isaac.
BTW, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney recently sent me an email saying that they were lying about the events of 9/11. Interested? If this is your standard for evidence then I'm actually kind of glad that you are not a member of the truth movement.
LOL

[applecorped]

Originally Posted by dommyboysinjapan

kookbreaker,


This quote is from Mr. Roberts not from Sentinel (Mr. Isaac). It is heresay. Congratulations on being able to find this alleged letter from Mr. Isaac so quickly.

Imagine the nerve of me. Asking you to support a claim that you had made on a skeptic's forum.

This is a public forum. You don't "have to" do anything. BTW why don't you go to the Truther sites and read Dr. Griffin's books if you still disagree? Why is it we Truthers always have to end up doing your work for you? It must be because you are "lazy."
LOL

I would rather trust a news article than an e-mail that someone says is from Paul Isaac.
BTW, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney recently sent me an email saying that they were lying about the events of 9/11. Interested? If this is your standard for evidence then I'm actually kind of glad that you are not a member of the truth movement.
LOL

I'm sure kookbreaker is relieved to know that he is not wanted in the TM. BTW, if Lennon were alive he'd probably call you a wanker.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by dommyboysinjapan

kookbreaker,


This quote is from Mr. Roberts not from Sentinel (Mr. Isaac). It is heresay.

It is not heresay. It is a direct quote. You might want to look up what heresay means.

But hey! A less articulate version of the same thing from the horses mouth.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...&postcount=630

Quote:

Now in case people don't know Wingtv wrote up a fake article pertaining to me making inapropriate remarks about how "9-11 was an inside job and how the police and firemen knew it too"

Oh dearie me. That one took a whole minute to find. But then I forgot to hit the 'by post' button and had to wait 60seconds to search again.

Quote:

Imagine the nerve of me. Asking you to support a claim that you had made on a skeptic's forum.

More like the nerve you have quoting things that were debunked ages ago and whining about it when nobody painting a golden map for you.

Quote:

This is a public forum. You don't "have to" do anything. BTW why don't you go to the Truther sites and read Dr. Griffin's books if you still disagree? Why is it we Truthers always have to end up doing your work for you? It must be because you are "lazy."
LOL

*Yawn* IKYABWAI

Quote:

I would rather trust a news article than an e-mail that someone says is from Paul Isaac.

So 'news articles' from neo-nazis are more trustable than people who actually have conversed and met the people you claim to be quoting.

Gotcha.

Quote:

BTW, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney recently sent me an email saying that they were lying about the events of 9/11. Interested?

There is video evidence of Mark Roberts and Abby Scott(among others actually meeting and talking with Isaac. While Paul ain't the most stable of folks, he is adamant about being misquoted by these bozos. He even says as much in the post listed above.

I'd like to see your evidence of having as much contact with Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney as Mark has had with Isaac.

Quote:

If this is your standard for evidence then I'm actually kind of glad that you are not a member of the truth movement.
LOL

You're not very good at this, are you?

[dommyboysinjapan]

kookbreaker,

Fine. I understand your point about mr. Isaac feeling that he had been misquoted. The post you linked me to is from two years ago so I honestly doubt that it only took 60 seconds to find unless you have lived on these message boards for the past two years. (When I ran a search, it wasn't the first quote to pop up.) Anyway, the new quote that you provided does prove your point that on that particular statement he felt that he had been misquoted. Fair enough. I shall revise my previous statement:

Quote:

Some of the testimonies I have seen online and in videos were from firefighters like in this clip:
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/91...ers/2528849401
This is just a small example of many testimonies that indicated that there were actual bombs. At the end of the clip the reporter is saying that the firefighter (in his professional opinion) felt that there were bombs planted in the building. Firefighters would most likely have a better idea of what a collapse by fire would sound like as compared to bombs. Their opinions are not uninformed. I realize that not all the firefighters are in agreement about the collapses being (or not being) the results of fire and structural damage. I think in this situation a more detailed investigation of the cd theory is called for.

Does the opinion of New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac Jr. matter to you at all?
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...en&sitesearch=
Does the opinion of first responder Craig Bartmer matter to you at all?
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...er&sitesearch=
Does the opinion of firefighter John Schroeder mean anything to you?
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...ge&sitesearch=
Do you see what I mean?

I have now replaced the contentious news article with an actual video of him speaking. It is very clear that he supports a new investigation. Neither he nor Craig Bartmer or John Schroeder feel that the truth has been told to the American public regarding the events of 9/11. You might not feel that their opinions about 9/11 are the consensus amongst the majority of the responders to 9/11 but the fact is that whether that is true or not, they are credible witnesses and their opinions matter, as do the opinions of all the responders including the ones that support the mainstream views.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by dommyboysinjapan

kookbreaker,

I have now replaced the contentious news article with an actual video of him speaking. It is very clear that he supports a new investigation.

Your link went to a guy (by the name of Isaac?) playing a Les Paul.

Then you've got a Paul Isaac video where he's babbling about George Bush being the 3rd Anti Christ and being part of Nostradamas' predictions and how people should know about the Anti-Christ stuff. The third video has him speaking without as much babble.

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ou might not feel that their opinions about 9/11 are the consensus amongst the majority of the responders to 9/11 but the fact is that whether that is true or not, they are credible witnesses and their opinions matter,

Right. Nostradamas and 3rd Anti-Christs is credible and matters. Gotcha.