Assistance required for telepathy proof

[Pup]

Originally Posted by IXP

This one is even easier to defeat if you can manipulate the polygraph. The receiver now needs to encode the sequence number of the test on each sheet. And the sheet is conveniently marked with 10 intervals, which gives him lots of room to encode the info.

Golfy then looks at the chart, reads the encoded sequence number and, knowing it is the 3'd test, say's, yep look, this is the one for "blue". Of course others won't see it that way, but Golfy is the judge.

The problem is that as long has you have these two conditions:

1. A receiver who can manipulate the polygraph.
2. The charts are shown to Golfy who interprets them.

You have opened a commincation channel that should not be there. Controlling for it is probably not impossible, but it is not easy.

IXP

Yep, there's the flaw. Thank you! The receiver would just need to stress on the first word of the first chart, the second word of the second, etc. to "label" the order of the charts.

Can't figure right now how to avoid that, either.

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by golfy

The protocol would be such that if communication is shown to be present that it would be of the paranormal kind and would therefore prove that I am telepathic as I would be doing nothing else but thinking to the receiver from a remote location and the receiver would be shown to be reacting to my thoughts by some means such as measurement by GSR.

And if no communication is shown to be present in a test approved by you beforehand, would you accept the result as evidence that you might not have a paranormal ability?

[golfy]

If a polygraph was used with just the GSR channel and the countermeasures channel active then the countermeasures channel would indicate when the receiver was inputting false readings by using body stress, hence why I wanted to use a polygraph. A polygraph is not a lie detector but an instrument with many (poly) graphs on its output. The persons physiological responses are then shown on the graphs and the stress can be easily be shown to be increasing (or decreasing) at a certain point as per the GSR plots that have been posted. A correlation is then looked for between when I was asked to think by the JREF and the graph printouts from the polygraph from the receiver.

golfy

[chillzero]

Originally Posted by golfy

Czarcasm,

The kind of test the JREF will accept is one that shows communication of a paranormal kind as it eliminates all other forms of communication that we currently understand exists today such as mobile phones, verbal communication, sign language etc.

.... and also all need for interpretation, and any possibility of cheating (either side). That's what people have tried to help you with here.

Originally Posted by golfy

There of course has to be some kind of correlation between me transmitting and the GSR response on the receiver.

And that correlation needs to be clear, and apparent and unquestionable - i.e. not open to any form of interpretation.

Originally Posted by golfy

If you don’t understand what the MDC is all about, please refrain from posting.

I don't know why you have such an issue with Czarcasm, as several people are trying to communicate with you here, but if you would look through some of the other threads in this section you would see that s/he has a very clear understandign of the MDC.

In fact, this thread alone shows it, although you seem to be really reluctant to read anything that disagrees with your world view. If you really want an experiment that holds water and has no holes that skeptics or critics can pick holes in, then addressing the points and concerns raised by skeptics would be a good way to go about it. Consider the satisfaction in proving us wrong by addressing our own points.

[GzuzKryzt]

Originally Posted by golfy

Czarcasm,

The kind of test the JREF will accept is one that shows communication of a paranormal kind as it eliminates all other forms of communication that we currently understand exists today such as mobile phones, verbal communication, sign language etc. The protocol would be such that if communication is shown to be present that it would be of the paranormal kind and would therefore prove that I am telepathic as I would be doing nothing else but thinking to the receiver from a remote location and the receiver would be shown to be reacting to my thoughts by some means such as measurement by GSR. There of course has to be some kind of correlation between me transmitting and the GSR response on the receiver.

If you don’t understand what the MDC is all about, please refrain from posting.

golfy

How exactly - exactly - do you intend to achieve falsifiability in this scenario?

[Rasmus]

Originally Posted by golfy

Czarcasm,

The kind of test the JREF will accept is one that shows communication of a paranormal kind as it eliminates all other forms of communication that we currently understand exists today such as mobile phones, verbal communication, sign language etc.

Almost right. It will show either that or simply nothing at all. It might just show that there is no telepathic communication going on.

Quote:

The protocol would be such that if communication is shown to be present that it would be of the paranormal kind and would therefore prove that I am telepathic as I would be doing nothing else but thinking to the receiver from a remote location and the receiver would be shown to be reacting to my thoughts by some means such as measurement by GSR.

For some values of "by some means such as", yes.

Quote:

There of course has to be some kind of correlation between me transmitting and the GSR response on the receiver.

Again, it is doubtful that "some kind of correlation" will be an acceptable condition for the challenge. It is likewise doubtful that you will be allowed to judge the GSR response unless previously discussed forms of manipulation/communication are ruled out.

Quote:

If you don’t understand what the MDC is all about, please refrain from posting.

Charming. This might well serve to at least demonstrate why some people would cheat on you even if they stood to lose a large chunk of money...

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by chillzero

I don't know why you have such an issue with Czarcasm, as several people are trying to communicate with you here, but if you would look through some of the other threads in this section you would see that s/he has a very clear understandign of the MDC.

We prefer the term transgender.

[Quinn]

Golfy, let me take a shot at another way of phrasing a question that others here have asked you. Imagine a scenario in which you design a test whose protocol you are completely satisfied with; one that you are certain will unerringly demonstrate your (or anyone else's) telepathic ability when it is present. The details aren't important; just for the moment, assume you're able to design a perfect test.

With me so far? Good. Now imagine that you take this test, which you have designed, and the results do not show telepathic ability on your part. In this hypothetical situation, would you then reconsider the possibility that you are not actually telepathic, or would you merely assume that something had gone wrong with the test?

If you are a rational person, as you claim to be, then the correct answer is, "Yes, I would then have to consider the possibility that I am not actually telepathic, and that my previous conclusion that I was telepathic was erroneous." Because you see, if that is not a possibility that you are willing to entertain, at least at the hypothetical level, then you have already negated the point of testing, and placed yourself outside the realm of science and into the realm of magical thinking.

NOTE: Responding with something like, "It doesn't matter, because I KNOW I'm telepathic, so any properly done test will show positive results anyway," will get you booed very loudly. If you don't understand why that is, then you've got a long way to go.

[golfy]

Hi Cillzero,

Since I arrived on the forum which a perfectly acceptable protocol that has been misinterpreted and then the misinterpretation has been criticised I see little point in endlessly correcting what I see as inane statements like “Can you think of a test that would convince you that you do not have the ability you are claiming, golfy? You see, that is the only kind of test that will be acceptable for the MDC.” What kind of rubbish is that? It is either suggesting that the JREF won’t accept any test that would prove I am telepathic or some other ridiculous argument.

Czarcasm seems obsessed with trying to get me to acknowledge that I may not be telepathic when I already know that I am – he is just trying to weaken me mentally and doesn’t add anything constructive to the forum from my point of view so I ignore his obsession. I am not hear to discuss the losing of the MDC, but to try and win it. What are you guys, losers trying to recruit another candidate?

I have a protocol which is foolproof which I am sure the JREF would accept, I am telepathic and as long as the JREF will accept a polygraph in the experiment then I have gained nothing from this forum.

I would be better off perfecting my stimulus to the point where it is repeatable and then go from there.

I can’t prove you wrong on a forum, all you will accept is total proof after an experiment has been done which proves my claim so no more discussion is required. If I take that experiment to the JREF and they accept the protocol and after tests with them have completed and the conclusion is that I am indeed telepathic the likes of Czarcasm will probably say I have conned the JREF. With people like that who don’t understand the basic test and what they mean I am better of thinking on my own and proving you wrong later on. I am not interested in his opinion.

You have to make logical sense for me to listen to you and sorry guys, you don’t.

FLS however, did.

I will not get to the JREF by listening to people who say I can’t make it, I’ll get there by ignoring them.

golfy

[alfaniner]

golfy, have you read the entire terms of the Challenge, and the associated FAQ?

Please reply using the Quote feature, quoting this post, so that I and everyone reading this thread will know that you have read the post and responded accordingly.

I will pose this question on every page if necessary.

[Pup]

Originally Posted by golfy

I see little point in endlessly correcting what I see as inane statements like “Can you think of a test that would convince you that you do not have the ability you are claiming, golfy? You see, that is the only kind of test that will be acceptable for the MDC.” What kind of rubbish is that? It is either suggesting that the JREF won’t accept any test that would prove I am telepathic or some other ridiculous argument.

I'd suggest you try very hard to understand that statement, because it's not inane, and it's crucial to any kind of dialog about the MDC. Or any use of the scientific method to investigate things in general, for that matter.

People aren't saying the results of the test must prove you're not telepathic. People are saying that the test must have a possible outcome which would prove you're not telepathic.

It's not crucial to designing a test of the MDC. Testees can go away convinced they still have powers that just didn't work that day, if they want. But it is crucial if you genuinely want to learn about your abilities through scientific testing.

In other words, you need to design a test that you could pass if you had telepathy, but if you failed, the only logical reason for the failure would be that you didn't have telepathy. No excuses like "I'm really telepathic but the receiver lied" or "the machine wasn't operated correctly" or "it only works under different conditions," or whatever. If you succeed it proves you have telepathy. If you fail, it proves you don't.

Otherwise--and this is how people fool themselves into thinking they have superpowers--you could go on endlessly retesting yourself, using a different excuse each time about why you failed, while believing that any random successes were genuine evidence of telepathy.

That's not the scientific method. That's just using mind games to reinforce a delusion.

A true investigation by the scientific method would count the failures as proof against telepathy, just as strongly as it would count the successes as evidence for telepathy.

[golfy]

Hi Quinn,

I totally see your point and what you are asking.

Unfortunately I have been aware of being telepathic for around 13 to 14 years and went through this by myself a long time ago. It was suggested it could be things like mobile phone gangs, thumbnail sketches, bugging devices, gypsy mind readers etc and at the time which could have explained the odd happenings in my life. I would have been very open to your argument and suggestions that it may not be me being telepathic, in fact telepathy had never come into the equation at that point. Non of the suggested options explained the circumstances fully and were therefore discounted one by one untill non were left but I still had no idea of what was causing the strange occurrences in my life.

At some point I thought that maybe people can hear my brain and then went in that direction and everything in my past life before 13 years ago suddenly made sense and everything since then has also made sense when telepathy is taken into account. I don’t consider for one moment that you will accept that explanation but when you live it day to day the conclusion becomes inevitable.

On the forum you are talking to like this happened a few days ago and you are trying to test my rational, this has been going on for a couple of decades and I have bee aware that it is telepathy for around 13 to 14 years and have endless unquestionable evidence time and time again that people can hear my thoughts. There is no point in telling me that I am not telepathic as I already conclusively know I am, I just haven’t passed the JREF test.

I could prove categorically that I am telepathic when I get the correct tests together and perhaps not do the JREF test but a University could state that they have scientifically tested me to beyond doubt and that I am indeed telepathic – what would you say then? The JREF test does not define me for what I am, I am still telepathic now and before I enter the MDC, I am not defined as not being telepathic as I have not won the MDC, it is just JREF confirmation that I am telepathic is I do win the MDC.

golfy

[chillzero]

Pup put the answer really well, but I would like to address your last sentence. We aren't saying you can't make it. If you would read the posts we are trying to help you identify the flaws in your protocols and experiments so that you can make the MDC claim protocol better.

And, you should really address the question posed by alphaniner - it's an important one.

[Czarcasm]

You want a test that will prove that you are telepathic, and any test that does not prove that you are telepathic is, by your definition, defective.
Is this correct?

[Rasmus]

Originally Posted by golfy

Unfortunately I have been aware of being telepathic for around 13 to 14 years and went through this by myself a long time ago.

You went through *what*?

Quote:

It was suggested it could be things like mobile phone gangs, thumbnail sketches, bugging devices, gypsy mind readers etc and at the time which could have explained the odd happenings in my life. I would have been very open to your argument and suggestions that it may not be me being telepathic, in fact telepathy had never come into the equation at that point. Non of the suggested options explained the circumstances fully and were therefore discounted one by one untill non were left but I still had no idea of what was causing the strange occurrences in my life.

None of us where there at the time. Please, just for a minute ignore what you think you know. Be good sceptic/scientist and just for a moment consider the possibility that you could be mistaken.

If that is too hard for you to do, as I think it is, then at least accept that those who will be testing you might think you are mistaken (or simply insane, or deluded or trying to steal a million dollars from them.)

Quote:

At some point I thought that maybe people can hear my brain and then went in that direction and everything in my past life before 13 years ago suddenly made sense and everything since then has also made sense when telepathy is taken into account.

Approach this from someone's point of view to whom the mere notion of telepathy doesn't make sense. Look at it from my point of view: I do think that you cannot possibly be telepathic.

What you now need to do is design a protocl that would convince *me*. You need to convince *me* (or the JREF; it doesn't really matter!) You need to convince those who think you are mistaken, or worse: attempting to cheat them out of a million bucks!

Even if we all knew you were telepathic: You need a test that proves it to everybody's satisfaction for a particular instance. It doesn't matter that you are convinced, or that the result fails to contradict you. The result has to convince me and it has to clearly and obviously contradict me.

It doesn't have to show that you might not be wrong. It has to prove that I am wrong and that therefore, you are actually right.

Quote:

I don’t consider for one moment that you will accept that explanation but when you live it day to day the conclusion becomes inevitable.

Exactly.

But the protocols you have suggested so far won't do that. What you consider a positive result could easily be explained away. It could be explained away even if you were right. And your protocol must not let anyone explain away your success when it's real.

Quote:

On the forum you are talking to like this happened a few days ago and you are trying to test my rational, this has been going on for a couple of decades and I have bee aware that it is telepathy for around 13 to 14 years and have endless unquestionable evidence time and time again that people can hear my thoughts.

The doesn't have to convince you, it has to convince me. In that regard, your evidence is worthless, even if accurate.

Quote:

There is no point in telling me that I am not telepathic as I already conclusively know I am, I just haven’t passed the JREF test.

... and you also haven't convinced anyone else that you are telepathic. Think about it: You need to convince the JREF, and that will be much, much harder than convincing any of us.

(In fact, we are not even asking to be convinced yet. We're just asking you to tell us how you would convince us. You don't even habe top be telepathic to pass this hurdle. I could design a working test within 10 minutes. That would - I hope - let everybody accept that if I was telepathic the test would show that.)

Quote:

I could prove categorically that I am telepathic when I get the correct tests together and perhaps not do the JREF test but a University could state that they have scientifically tested me to beyond doubt and that I am indeed telepathic – what would you say then?

Quite possibly I would suggest that some professors aren't deserving their jobs and pay checks ... but as long as you haven't convinced anyone at a university (someone willing to admit you convinced them at least) those are just empty words.

Yes, you might pass some other test the results of which could possibly convince me. Have you?

No, didn't think so ...

Quote:

The JREF test does not define me for what I am, I am still telepathic now and before I enter the MDC, I am not defined as not being telepathic as I have not won the MDC, it is just JREF confirmation that I am telepathic is I do win the MDC.

What if you don't win?

Whatever the reasons, what if you don't win?

[golfy]

Originally Posted by alfaniner

golfy, have you read the entire terms of the Challenge, and the associated FAQ?

Yes I have.

To Czarcasm,

If the test did not prove that I am telepathic then I would question the test. I would of course have this cracked and before approaching the JREF. No point putting forward a test which is not producing the desired results.

golfy

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by golfy

If the test did not prove that I am telepathic then I would question the test. I would of course have this cracked and before approaching the JREF. No point putting forward a test which is not producing the desired results.

Is anyone still interested in helping him design a test after reading this?

[Loss Leader]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Is anyone still interested in helping him design a test after reading this?

I lost interest around about the time he ignored entirely my post where I pointed out the difference between testing for sound waves and testing for thought waves.

[Czarcasm]

Frankly, I can't wait to hear the response when he tells The Powers That Be that he requires a test that proves that he is telepathic, and that if it doesn't, it shows that either the test is defective, or that they are lying.

[Rasmus]

Originally Posted by Czarcasm

Is anyone still interested in helping him design a test after reading this?

Well, I would just hate to see all this energy wasted in the build-up to an epic fail the likes of which the world has never seen before just so the test can be cancelled...

other than that: No.

Moreover, I have little hope that there ever could be a mutually agreed upon protocol, the the question seems purely academic.

[alfaniner]

Originally Posted by alfaniner
golfy, have you read the entire terms of the Challenge, and the associated FAQ?

Originally Posted by golfy

Yes I have.

golfy

Thank you for that reply. Perhaps I should have added the query "and did you understand it?" but it satisfies me for now.

Originally Posted by Pup

I'd suggest you try very hard to understand that statement, because it's not inane, and it's crucial to any kind of dialog about the MDC. Or any use of the scientific method to investigate things in general, for that matter.

People aren't saying the results of the test must prove you're not telepathic. People are saying that the test must have a possible outcome which would prove you're not telepathic.

The very nature of the test is that the claimant state what will constitute a positive and negative result.

Originally Posted by Pup

...
In other words, you need to design a test that you could pass if you had telepathy, but if you failed, the only logical reason for the failure would be that you didn't have telepathy. No excuses like "I'm really telepathic but the receiver lied" or "the machine wasn't operated correctly" or "it only works under different conditions," or whatever. If you succeed it proves you have telepathy. If you fail, it proves you don't.
...

Not quite correct. It does not offer a blanket disproof of the ability, just proof that it was not possible at that time, under those conditions. The only stipulation is that the claimant show they can do what they claim, not that a negative result is proof of the opposite.

Pedantic, I know. And it leaves room for the claimant to delude themselves into thinking their power is still possible (even with the open pre-pre test, which should show that the "powers are working that day".) You can prove it possible, you can't prove it is not.

[golfy]

If I were in a room on my own and the JREF had ten identical opaque plastic pill tubs with the numbers 1 to 10 inside each one – i.e. one number in one tub that were put in there before I had arrived so I could have no way of knowing what was inside them.

These are placed in a box, the box shaken, and if I were to then select one tub at their request, would that be a random selection of a number from 1 to 10?

Czarcasm?

golfy

[godless dave]

Originally Posted by golfy

As a footnote, when the experiment was being set up and the receiver was connected to the GSR in a sound proof booth 40 yards away and the researcher and I could watch his GSR on a monitor in the room that I was in, the researcher said “Look, Dave if flat lining” (Dave was the receiver) – I then said “Wake up Dave, you’re flat lining!”

I don't believe you.

If the researcher saw a subject's EEG flatlining, he would be ethically bound to call 999 immediately. A flat EEG means brain death.

[golfy]

If the JREF had ten identical opaque plastic pill tubs with a number between 1 to 10 inside each one – i.e. one number in one tub, number one in the first tub, number two in the second tub etc, that were put in there before I had arrived so I could have no way of knowing what was inside them.

These are placed in a box, the box shaken, and if I were to then select one tub at their request, look inside and read the number, would that be a random selection of a number from 1 to 10?

Czarcasm?

golfy

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by golfy

If I were in a room on my own and the JREF had ten identical opaque plastic pill tubs with the numbers 1 to 10 inside each one – i.e. one number in one tub that were put in there before I had arrived so I could have no way of knowing what was inside them.

These are placed in a box, the box shaken, and if I were to then select one tub at their request, would that be a random selection of a number from 1 to 10?

Czarcasm?

golfy

A piece of paper with a number on it? Ping pong balls that are numbered? What do you mean "in a room on my own"?
Never mind. My real question is: What the hell does this have to do with a telepathy test??

[godless dave]

Originally Posted by golfy

What I just wrote was to demonstrate that you cannot simply conclude that there is no form of communication (when you know full well she can hear you verbally) if the GSR does not respond when you say something to her.

It was done to get you guys to think which it seems you can’t do at all.

I have been in situations with people on GSRs many time and just because you say something that they hear does not mean that the GSR will register it. Transfer that to telepathic communication – if they hear it, it does not mean there will be a deflection on the GSR just like there is no deflection on the GSR when they hear you verbally.

To get deflection on the GSR with verbal communication, the right stimulus has to be used to get them stressed such as “I know you wife is having an affair” may cause a response. If it does not respond you would conclude that he did not hear you, I would conclude a number of things. He may not even have a wife, he already knows about the affair and is happy that she is about to leave him for someone else etc.

If you get the stimulus right then there will be a GSR response but finding the right stimulus is very difficult.

So why use a GSR at all? Why not have the recipient just report what word she heard?

[Czarcasm]

Originally Posted by godless dave

So why use a GSR at all? Why not have the recipient just report what word she heard?

Because everyone who hears his thoughts lies about it!

[golfy]

Czarcasm

I have edited it to make it clearer, please simply answer the question and then we can proceed to the next step of designing a protocol that this forum will accept as a genuine test.

If it is too intellectually challenging for you Czarcasm then all I can conclude is you are not up to ever adding anything constructive this forum, you are just a simple critic of no worth on an intellectual basis. After all we are trying to design a protocol for use in a test designed to determine if telepathy exists, all you do is make excuses and childish critical comments.

Step up to the plate or walk away like you did before when the going got tough.

golfy

[Czarcasm]

I have to admit-your conclusions about my mental capacities are as valid as your conclusions about your telepathic ability.

[golfy]

Czarcasm, avoiding the issue again, thought you would.

Your words were "Is anyone still interested in helping him design a test after reading this?" I have now concluded that the intellectual colossus that is Czarcasm has nothing constructive of any kind to add to this forum and from now on will be ignored as you are a simple observing critic of no worth intellectually in the goal of achieving confirmation that telepathy can be scientifically proven to exist if the correct protocol and test are designed. I believe that this is simply far beyond your cerebral abilities.

golfy

[Coveredinbeeees]

Originally Posted by golfy

If I were in a room on my own and the JREF had ten identical opaque plastic pill tubs with the numbers 1 to 10 inside each one – i.e. one number in one tub that were put in there before I had arrived so I could have no way of knowing what was inside them.

These are placed in a box, the box shaken, and if I were to then select one tub at their request, would that be a random selection of a number from 1 to 10?

Hello Golfy,

To keep things moving, I'd say that what you describe above would constitute a random selection of a number from one to ten. I'd have to wonder why you'd want to go to all of that trouble rather than simply rolling a ten sided die though.

Also, if I were you, I'd try to avoid making any further personal attacks. They are not likely to help you get your protocol in order and they will, if anything, dissuade many from helping you.

[GzuzKryzt]

Originally Posted by golfy

Czarcasm

I have edited it to make it clearer, please simply answer the question and then we can proceed to the next step of designing a protocol that this forum will accept as a genuine test.
...

The JREF has to accept your test proposal, not the forum members. Do you understand that, golfy?

How will you get a media presence and academic support?

And: How exactly - exactly - do you intend to achieve falsifiability in this scenario?

Originally Posted by golfy

Czarcasm,

The kind of test the JREF will accept is one that shows communication of a paranormal kind as it eliminates all other forms of communication that we currently understand exists today such as mobile phones, verbal communication, sign language etc. The protocol would be such that if communication is shown to be present that it would be of the paranormal kind and would therefore prove that I am telepathic as I would be doing nothing else but thinking to the receiver from a remote location and the receiver would be shown to be reacting to my thoughts by some means such as measurement by GSR. There of course has to be some kind of correlation between me transmitting and the GSR response on the receiver.

If you don’t understand what the MDC is all about, please refrain from posting.

golfy

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Don At Work

1) There will be no test. Period.

2) Golfy will never,ever, EVER be convinced that he does not have telepathy. Ever, in any way, shape, or form.

3) The word "Quantum" will be used

Dang. #3 already happened. However, I got 2 out of 3. Where is my prize?

Bingo!

That wins you two chocolate fish.

PM me the address.

Originally Posted by golfy

I am quite happy to stop posting and continue with my experiment untill they are honed to the point where proof of thelepathy can be scientifically shown.

Another failed prediction.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Does this thread remind anyone of the Dowsing by Edge thread? Golfy does have a better command of the English language, but I get that same nagging feeling that the information presented is not being assimilated. A serious applicant would have already gathered from the Rules that results requiring interpetation are not permitted, and would not have bothered to suggest such protocools in the first place, much less ignoring numerous posts containing this information.

Well put, and yes I can see this thread still going 120 pages from now, without ever having moved!

Originally Posted by golfy

If you don’t understand what the MDC is all about, please refrain from posting.

That ain't ironic, that's tungstenic!

Originally Posted by golfy

I have a protocol which is foolproof which I am sure the JREF would accept, I am telepathic and as long as the JREF will accept a polygraph in the experiment then I have gained nothing from this forum.

Well, your predictive skills have failed again. Your protocol is foolproof, it's foolish.

Let me put this quite simply - nobody, but nobody is going to accept a test involving a polygraph.

The end.

Find another means of proving your skillz, or go away. Feel free to start another thread about why polygraphs are an absurd suggestion for the MDC. Why the hell do you think they are not allowed in the justice system?

Originally Posted by golfy

I would be better off perfecting my stimulus to the point where it is repeatable and then go from there.

Yay! A sensible suggestion at last!

Here - I'll add to the joy for you. I'd love to see telepathy be proved, in fact I even run a challenge to help would-be telepaths and psychics.

You seem to be quite motivated by money, and expect to gain assistance from someone else by paying them an absurd amount of money, try this for size:

The NZ challenge, unlike Randi's mio in the bank, is actually laid off with bookies, because bookies in some parts of the world will happily give very long odds on people like you being telepathic. I keep it at $2M, but I can change it as I see fit.

You devise a simple protocol to show off your telepathic skill - which does not include any kind of device - and I'll pay your assistant $1,000,000 and pay you another FIVE million. Even better, I'll make it in US dollars. Hell, if you talk to me nicely, I might even consider pounds Sterling.

Instead of writing 5000 word posts which say nothing at all, stop the talking and start designing an acceptable protocol. I intend to make a couple of million at least out of this myself, so sooner rather than later, please.

[golfy]

Originally Posted by GzuzKryzt

The JREF has to accept your test proposal, not the forum members. Do you understand that, golfy?

How will you get a media presence and academic support?

And: How exactly - exactly - do you intend to achieve falsifiability in this scenario?

Hi Gzuzkryzt,

Yes I do. I already have a protocol which I believe is as tamper and deceit proof for both parties as is required by the JREF, after all it with the JREF that inspects the protocol for suitability and makes alterations to it if they fee it is required and agreeable on both sides.

To gain media presence may be a problem, I have been in contact with another university who seemed willing to be involved in the experiments if I could first demonstrate it to them to a high degree accuracy. That would be the academic covered and presumably it would not be hard to get media attention with the backup of a University Professor stating that I have demonstrated telepathic ability.

As for falsifiability, if the JREF accept the protocol and I win the MDC if I can prove my claim, I don’t see how outsiders opinion affects the winning of the prize as if is a JREF issue.

What do you think Gzuzkryzt?

golfy

[GzuzKryzt]

Originally Posted by golfy

Hi Gzuzkryzt,

Yes I do. I already have a protocol which I believe is as tamper and deceit proof for both parties as is required by the JREF, after all it with the JREF that inspects the protocol for suitability and makes alterations to it if they fee it is required and agreeable on both sides.

To gain media presence may be a problem, I have been in contact with another university who seemed willing to be involved in the experiments if I could first demonstrate it to them to a high degree accuracy. That would be the academic covered and presumably it would not be hard to get media attention with the backup of a University Professor stating that I have demonstrated telepathic ability.

As for falsifiability, if the JREF accept the protocol and I win the MDC if I can prove my claim, I don’t see how outsiders opinion affects the winning of the prize as if is a JREF issue.

What do you think Gzuzkryzt?

golfy

I think you do not - yet - understand what falsifiability means? Have you read the link I provided?

"Seemed", "could", "would" & "would" again. You have a long way to go to even qualify for the MDC. Have you inquired at the JREF if they find your protocol proposal acceptable?

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by golfy

I have a protocol which is foolproof which I am sure the JREF would accept, I am telepathic and as long as the JREF will accept a polygraph in the experiment then I have gained nothing from this forum.

Wrong on all counts. The posters here know from experience that your protocol is not foolproof and is not acceptable, they are trying to help you design one which would work.

[Loss Leader]

Originally Posted by golfy

If it is too intellectually challenging for you Czarcasm then all I can conclude is you are not up to ever adding anything constructive this forum, you are just a simple critic of no worth on an intellectual basis.

When the JREF is nothing but dust centuries from now, people will still speak of golfy's strange obsession with Czarcasm.

[Czarcasm]

It would help your cause, golfy, if you could give us your definition of "falsifiability", so that we're all on the same track.

[Paul2]

Golfy, I'm sure it would help everyone a lot if you could tell us what you think falsifiability is in general, and specifically how it would apply to a test protocal for your telepathy.

This is a crucial point, I sincerely hope you respond with a direct answer.

[Startz]

Golfy, let me take your side just a little bit and see if you find that helps.

All you need do is propose a test that someone who is not a telepath cannot succeed at. The results must be apparent without judging.

If you succeed, it does proves you are telepath.

If you fail, it does not prove you are not a telepath, but it also does not prove you are one. (And you don't get the million.)

JREF will probably approve you using a polygraph or other apparatus of your choice, so long as it doesn't provide a way for a non-telepath to succeed at the test.

You don't have to explain to anyone how telepathy will help you at the test, but you might propose a protocol and ask others to explain how a non-telepath might succeed since this is the one thing the test can't allow.

-Dick Startz