What Is Electricity?

Canadian Malcontent · 10th May 2008, 10:21 PM

As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description.

With love and appreciation and gratitude,
Canadian Malcontent

rhtufts · 10th May 2008, 10:37 PM

Electricity is the movement of electrons within a circuit.

.02
Russell

Normal Dude · 10th May 2008, 10:41 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity

Canadian Malcontent · 10th May 2008, 10:48 PM

Nice try.

robinson · 10th May 2008, 10:53 PM

I consulted the academic community, and they told me to stop bothering them.

So I consulted the group mind, and it told me to do some research, and quit asking stupid questions.

Which wasn't surprising. It seems rather than use the ancient term ēlectricus, it is more accurate, at least from a technical writing point of view, to speak of specific instances, when communicating about the various phenomenom included under the umbrella term, 'Lectricity.

One could almost define "electricity" by describing the various physical realities associated with the term. Like Electric charge, Electric current, Electric field, Electric potential, as well as Electromagnetism, which connects the other mysterious and hard to define word, magnetism, with electricity.

Of course your use of the word "God" in the first moments of your "question", may cause a serious sidetrack, it is also possible a real scientific discussion may hijack the thread.

In one of those odd coincidences, I was having a discussion early today in which a similar slant was applied to the concept of brain/mind and awareness, in which science was attacked by a religious fruitcake, and I was faced with the onerous choice of getting into a debate with a madman, or just telling him, "You might be right", and escaping with my sanity intact, and no energy wasted in battles with the delusional.

Soapy Sam · 10th May 2008, 10:55 PM

Electrickery is caused by a huge number of demons, trapped by a spell inside a wire, who rage to and fro , attempting to escape. In their frenzied efforts, they make lights go on and stuff.

Wilfull ignorance is caused by being too lazy to read elementary textbooks, even when smart enough.

Canadian Malcontent · 10th May 2008, 10:56 PM

You're pretending, and it's not masculine. It's decidedly without masculinity. It's no fun when you don't tell the truth. Spill it. You have no clue what electricity is. Tell the world.

We know how it behaves and it's useful to us but what it is, we do not know.

Now, the simplicity of electricity being entirely foreign to us, shall we still presume to speak authoritatively on the origins of life.

Are we buffoons. Of course but shall we be with buffoons in ignorance and assault the truths of our grandmothers and you in your 'divine scientific wisdom' know the truth that your grandmother does not know.

Edited by chillzero:

Edited for civility

And may God's Love be with you.

Normal Dude · 10th May 2008, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Electrickery is caused by a huge number of demons, trapped by a spell inside a wire, who rage to and fro , attempting to escape. In their frenzied efforts, they make lights go on and stuff.

Wilfull ignorance is caused by being too lazy to read elementary textbooks, even though when smart enough.

Dangit, you beat me to it.

Normal Dude · 10th May 2008, 10:57 PM

Edit/delete: I should know better than to pick on people less fortunate than me.

Canadian Malcontent · 10th May 2008, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by robinson

I consulted the academic community, and they told me to stop bothering them.

So I consulted the group mind, and it told me to do some research, and quit asking stupid questions.

Which wasn't surprising. It seems rather than use the ancient term ēlectricus, it is more accurate, at least from a technical writing point of view, to speak of specific instances, when communicating about the various phenomenom included under the umbrella term, 'Lectricity.

One could almost define "electricity" by describing the various physical realities associated with the term. Like Electric charge, Electric current, Electric field, Electric potential, as well as Electromagnetism, which connects the other mysterious and hard to define word, magnetism, with electricity.

Of course your use of the word "God" in the first moments of your "question", may cause a serious sidetrack, it is also possible a real scientific discussion may hijack the thread.

In one of those odd coincidences, I was having a discussion early today in which a similar slant was applied to the concept of brain/mind and awareness, in which science was attacked by a religious fruitcake, and I was faced with the onerous choice of getting into a debate with a madman, or just telling him, "You might be right", and escaping with my sanity intact, and no energy wasted in battles with the delusional.

Exactly. You can describe the behaviour but you can't describe the substance.

quixotecoyote · 10th May 2008, 10:59 PM

Maybe electricity is God and that's why there's no evidence he exists. We've trapped him inside the grid and he can't get out.

Pardon me, I'm going to go make God fry me a poptart. PRAISE JEEBUS

Canadian Malcontent · 10th May 2008, 11:01 PM

Quixote, exactly. We don't know what's what and we don't know what will be. We live in a world of nature and are subject to it. Thank you very much for your response.

quixotecoyote · 10th May 2008, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

Quixote, exactly. We don't know what's what and we don't know what will be. We live in a world of nature and are subject to it. Thank you very much for your response.

Nope, sure enough it made a popart, just as predicted. So much for your unknowable world. Makes me wonder how your god likes being trapped in all those "D" battery appliances though.

BillC · 11th May 2008, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description.

With love and appreciation and gratitude,
Canadian Malcontent

You'll have a job trying to provide an accurate description of 'electricity', for the term is a vague one, and is generally not used in modern science. In a more colloquial setting, 'electricity' is the name given to a whole series of phenomena resulting from the presence and motion of electric charge.

You would have done better in your OP asking what electric charge was.

X · 11th May 2008, 12:07 AM

Electricity is the flow of electrons (if DC).
Or the vibration of them, if AC.

At least, that's my limited understanding.
I'm not an electrical engineeri. I realized that wasn't for me when I first saw a circuit analysis.
Besides, Sparky's are to blame for i.

chillzero · 11th May 2008, 01:12 AM

Keep it civil, and on topic please.

Posted By:chillzero

Lensman · 11th May 2008, 01:24 AM

Electricity is is the flow of electrons through a conductor, if you disagree or can't understand that, it's no fault of mine.

tomwaits · 11th May 2008, 01:27 AM

why was my previous post deleted? here it is again

Quote:

ok

what IS magnetism, anyway? i know it's an observable fact, but what is the reasoning behind the effect?

Dave_46 · 11th May 2008, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by BillC

You'll have a job trying to provide an accurate description of 'electricity', for the term is a vague one, and is generally not used in modern science. In a more colloquial setting, 'electricity' is the name given to a whole series of phenomena resulting from the presence and motion of electric charge.

You would have done better in your OP asking what electric charge was.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description.

With love and appreciation and gratitude,
Canadian Malcontent

Canadian Malcontent

It is better not to make assumptions about people you do not know. I have no "god", but my understanding is that other posters here are religious. So, your first sentence is incorrect.

IF (and its a big if) science can not yet explain electricity so what. It can explain the effects of the movement of electrons adequately to use them with confidence - you, for instance, are able to send your message to people all over the world.

Dave

Lensman · 11th May 2008, 01:58 AM

Well said Dave.

shadron · 11th May 2008, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

It's no fun when you don't tell the truth. Spill it. You have no clue what electricity is. Tell the world.

We know how it behaves and it's useful to us but what it is, we do not know.

Well, now, CM, it's too bad you picked on electricity as your straw clown for this exercise. Lensman (and others) have nailed it pretty exactly, in all it's simplicity. Now, if you'd chosen "gravity" instead, it is likely you would have met with more success in your self-effacing diatribe, your basic premise, as science is still seeking an understanding there. The electro-magnetic force, though, is the dominant force in our world, and we have a deeper understanding of it thereby. Movement of electrons says it all, and Maxwell brings us the good news.

Quote:

Now, the simplicity of electricity being entirely foreign to us, shall we still presume to speak authoritatively on the origins of life.

As SlingBlade may have said, your logic needs more cowbell. You as much as state (by the Sherlock Holmes principle) that your understanding of the universe comes from a work of fiction, perhaps even from a comic book if you follow Chick's illumination, which it sounds like you might.

Quote:

Edited by chillzero:

Edited for civility

And may God's Love be with you.

Nice attitude, christian. Et cum spiritu tuo.

cyborg · 11th May 2008, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

Exactly. You can describe the behaviour but you can't describe the substance.

There's a difference?

chillzero · 11th May 2008, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by shadron

If the single purpose of your thread was to bring attention to your claim, I recommend to the mods that this thread be moved to MDC.

There was a poor attempt made to discuss the claim already in MDC, and MC is welcome to try again in a more civil tone.

This thread is not about a claim, so should be kept on the topic of electricity, or left to die.

Posted By:Chillzero

tsig · 11th May 2008, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description.

With love and appreciation and gratitude,
Canadian Malcontent

It's what I made a living from for 44 years.

When you move a wire in a magnetic field electricity results.

I do not think you are here get answers but to give answers.

Klimax · 11th May 2008, 04:55 AM

Electromagnetism at Wikipedia

If you get through those pages at wiki (most of them) and will want to discuss/know more,feel free...

BTW.They are using advanced math,but can be understand even without that,in case I migth try to locat High school(US)/Grammer school(GB) physic.

dacium2007 · 11th May 2008, 05:09 AM

Some people have some misconceptions about electricity.

Current does not flow in electric ciruits. Charge flows in electric circuits and that flow of charge is called a current. Electricity requires flow of charge, positive or negetive, subatomic or ionic. You can have electricity without having electrons (by having mobile charges in the form of protons or charged ions, anything with an electic charge).

It is a shame electrons are named electrons and not negetrons, as people seem to think that moving electrons is electricity. It is not the movement of electrons which delivers power in an electric circuit. In an DC circuit electrons move very slow, about 3 inches PER MINUTE! In AC circuits that don't move at all, they just get pushed very very slightly backwards and forwards, usually not even far enough to move from more than a few atoms back and forth. No electron in your electricity has come from the power company though the power lines.

It isn't the electrons pushing on each other to move the circuit either. Its the electric field of the electrons which is felt at a distance. So the first electron only moves a little and the next is and so on, and at nearly the speed of light the entire circuit has electrons now moving, but the electrons themselves only move extremely slowly and its the ability of the generator to put a huge electric field to push on the electron (through the electric field) the most that is electrical power.

JEROME DA GNOME · 11th May 2008, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Electrickery is caused by a huge number of demons, trapped by a spell inside a wire, who rage to and fro , attempting to escape. In their frenzied efforts, they make lights go on and stuff.

I never knew!

TheDaver · 11th May 2008, 05:49 AM

Canadian Malcontent… Socrates, you are not.

Paulhoff · 11th May 2008, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description.

With love and appreciation and gratitude,
Canadian Malcontent

CM comes in with a bad attitude, what does one expect, only pleasant answers.

With that attitude, why would one want to waste any long amount of time explaining what can be found on the internet.

Paul

Ryan O'Dine · 11th May 2008, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description.

With love and appreciation and gratitude,
Canadian Malcontent

The real genius of science is not in explaining exactly what a thing is, but in predicting what a thing will do next.

The theory of electromagnetism is a wonderful case in point. The closer we get to describing an electron, the more slippery the darn thing gets. On the other hand, the theory of quantum electrodynamics is probably the most complete and accurate theory in all of science. It has predicted things the equivalent of measuring the distance from L.A. to N.Y. to within a human hair’s breadth of accuracy (if I recall my Feynman).

Your question isn’t really about electricity, it’s about what science can do. Reformulate your question, do the research people here have suggested, and you’re sure to find yourself greatly enlightened.

Paulhoff · 11th May 2008, 08:11 AM

You watch a river, and see that the water flows pass you, do you know every fish, rock, plant, etc in that river, no, but you do see the flow even if you don’t know everything about that river or the water that makes it.

Paul

The Gnomon · 11th May 2008, 08:53 AM

The word "electricity" is a reification of a process. (Reification is the process by which an action is expressed by a noun, for example, the word "reification.")

robinson · 11th May 2008, 09:07 AM

That thing about charge and current has always been a bit hard to believe.

Like plasma balls. Until you see one, it is hard to believe some of the stuff that electromagnetism can do. And it does it so fast.

Based on current terminology, I tend to think in terms of "Electromagnetism" rather than electricity. Unless I am working on house current, in which case I go back to the old fashioned terminology.

Because nobody wants to hear me yelling, "Is the electromagnetism on this circuit off or not?".

[slight derail]

As was expected, some of this thread went off to AAH. Including my plea to hijack the topic with a real conversation about electricity.

Originally Posted by Darat

Canadian Malcontent has been suspended for 3 days for multiple breaches of his Membership Agreement.

[/derail]

Jimbo07 · 11th May 2008, 10:30 AM

It's an unfortunate holdover, since humans knew about electricity before electrons...

robinson · 11th May 2008, 10:43 AM

In an ironic twist, electrons are named that, because of amber.

OK maybe that isn't ironic, but it is something. I'm pretty sure the Greeks knew about atoms. They invented the word.

Jimbo07 · 11th May 2008, 12:24 PM

And of course, Wikipedia is our friend...

"Electricity" in 1646

Electricity

and "Electron" in 1874

Electron

Both words derived from the Greek for Amber...

fuelair · 11th May 2008, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

And may God's Love be with you.

And I wish you nothing back in response to your wish of nothing to us.

Oh, actually, electricity is the energy carried/transferred by those moving electrons (they do not move along the carrier, they transfer energy by way of the wire/conducter).

kedo1981 · 11th May 2008, 02:52 PM

It appears that our friend from the north is holding to some 18th century notions about electricity. It’s not a fluid, it’s a behavior exhibited by conductive substances.

Ginarley · 11th May 2008, 03:39 PM

What is Electricity? Here is one answer:

Quote:

Electricity is a mysterious incomprehensible entity which is invisible AND visible BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. Also, it's both matter and energy. It's a type of low-frequency radio wave which is made of protons. It is a mysterious force which looks like blue-white fire, and yet cannot be seen. It moves forward at the speed of light... yet it vibrates in the AC cord without flowing forwards at all. It's totally weightless, yet it has a small weight. When electricity flows through a light bulb's filament, it gets changed entirely into light. Yet no electricity is ever used up by the light bulb, and every bit of it flows out of the filament and back down the other wire. College textbooks are full of electricity, yet they have no electric charge! Electricity is a class of phenomena which can be stored in batteries! If you want to measure a quantity of electricity, what units should you use? Why Volts of electricity, of course. And also Coulombs of electricity, Amperes, Watts, and Joules, all at the same time. Yet "electricity" is a class of phenomena; it's a type of event. Since we can't have an AMOUNT of an event, we can't really measure the quantity of electricity at all... right?
Heh heh.

Taken from an interesting article here. For those that don't like reading articles, it explains that electricity has multiple meanings depending on context but these meanings are incorrectly used interchangeably. The above quote is the amusing result of conflating them all.

dacium2007 · 19th May 2008, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Jimbo07

It's an unfortunate holdover, since humans knew about electricity before electrons...

And this is doubly unfortuent, because now people think that you must have electrons for electricity, or that electrons are electricity.

10th May 2008, 10:21 PM	#1
Canadian Malcontent Arborist Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 420	What Is Electricity? As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description. With love and appreciation and gratitude, Canadian Malcontent
	__________________ "Gravity is our friend." Erik Bostrom

10th May 2008, 10:41 PM	#3
Normal Dude Space Shuttle Door Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: W/ The Evil Council Posts: 3,959	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity
	__________________ "At some point, you just get past the horror of someone having these beliefs, and begin to enjoy the sheer comedy of it all." Complexity And I dont care if your name is Norm or Jack, Or Dick. I dont see why you have to post your name everytime you make a comment./ its IRRELIVANT -Rwalsh

10th May 2008, 10:48 PM	#4
Canadian Malcontent Arborist Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 420	Nice try.
	__________________ "Gravity is our friend." Erik Bostrom

10th May 2008, 10:53 PM	#5
robinson Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,136	I consulted the academic community, and they told me to stop bothering them. So I consulted the group mind, and it told me to do some research, and quit asking stupid questions. Which wasn't surprising. It seems rather than use the ancient term ēlectricus, it is more accurate, at least from a technical writing point of view, to speak of specific instances, when communicating about the various phenomenom included under the umbrella term, 'Lectricity. One could almost define "electricity" by describing the various physical realities associated with the term. Like Electric charge, Electric current, Electric field, Electric potential, as well as Electromagnetism, which connects the other mysterious and hard to define word, magnetism, with electricity. Of course your use of the word "God" in the first moments of your "question", may cause a serious sidetrack, it is also possible a real scientific discussion may hijack the thread. In one of those odd coincidences, I was having a discussion early today in which a similar slant was applied to the concept of brain/mind and awareness, in which science was attacked by a religious fruitcake, and I was faced with the onerous choice of getting into a debate with a madman, or just telling him, "You might be right", and escaping with my sanity intact, and no energy wasted in battles with the delusional.
robinson Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,136	Last edited by robinson; 10th May 2008 at 10:54 PM.

10th May 2008, 10:55 PM	#6
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Electrickery is caused by a huge number of demons, trapped by a spell inside a wire, who rage to and fro , attempting to escape. In their frenzied efforts, they make lights go on and stuff. Wilfull ignorance is caused by being too lazy to read elementary textbooks, even when smart enough.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Last edited by Soapy Sam; 10th May 2008 at 10:56 PM.

10th May 2008, 10:37 PM	#2
rhtufts Scholar Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Burleson, TX Posts: 103	Electricity is the movement of electrons within a circuit. .02 Russell

10th May 2008, 10:56 PM	#8
Normal Dude Space Shuttle Door Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: W/ The Evil Council Posts: 3,959	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam Electrickery is caused by a huge number of demons, trapped by a spell inside a wire, who rage to and fro , attempting to escape. In their frenzied efforts, they make lights go on and stuff. Wilfull ignorance is caused by being too lazy to read elementary textbooks, even though when smart enough. Dangit, you beat me to it.
	__________________ "At some point, you just get past the horror of someone having these beliefs, and begin to enjoy the sheer comedy of it all." Complexity And I dont care if your name is Norm or Jack, Or Dick. I dont see why you have to post your name everytime you make a comment./ its IRRELIVANT -Rwalsh

10th May 2008, 10:57 PM	#9
Normal Dude Space Shuttle Door Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: W/ The Evil Council Posts: 3,959	Edit/delete: I should know better than to pick on people less fortunate than me.
	__________________ "At some point, you just get past the horror of someone having these beliefs, and begin to enjoy the sheer comedy of it all." Complexity And I dont care if your name is Norm or Jack, Or Dick. I dont see why you have to post your name everytime you make a comment./ its IRRELIVANT -Rwalsh Last edited by Normal Dude; 10th May 2008 at 11:06 PM.

10th May 2008, 10:58 PM	#10
Canadian Malcontent Arborist Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 420	Originally Posted by robinson I consulted the academic community, and they told me to stop bothering them. So I consulted the group mind, and it told me to do some research, and quit asking stupid questions. Which wasn't surprising. It seems rather than use the ancient term ēlectricus, it is more accurate, at least from a technical writing point of view, to speak of specific instances, when communicating about the various phenomenom included under the umbrella term, 'Lectricity. One could almost define "electricity" by describing the various physical realities associated with the term. Like Electric charge, Electric current, Electric field, Electric potential, as well as Electromagnetism, which connects the other mysterious and hard to define word, magnetism, with electricity. Of course your use of the word "God" in the first moments of your "question", may cause a serious sidetrack, it is also possible a real scientific discussion may hijack the thread. In one of those odd coincidences, I was having a discussion early today in which a similar slant was applied to the concept of brain/mind and awareness, in which science was attacked by a religious fruitcake, and I was faced with the onerous choice of getting into a debate with a madman, or just telling him, "You might be right", and escaping with my sanity intact, and no energy wasted in battles with the delusional. Exactly. You can describe the behaviour but you can't describe the substance.
	__________________ "Gravity is our friend." Erik Bostrom

10th May 2008, 10:59 PM	#11
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Maybe electricity is God and that's why there's no evidence he exists. We've trapped him inside the grid and he can't get out. Pardon me, I'm going to go make God fry me a poptart. PRAISE JEEBUS
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

10th May 2008, 11:01 PM	#12
Canadian Malcontent Arborist Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 420	Quixote, exactly. We don't know what's what and we don't know what will be. We live in a world of nature and are subject to it. Thank you very much for your response.
	__________________ "Gravity is our friend." Erik Bostrom

10th May 2008, 11:10 PM	#13
quixotecoyote Howling to glory I go Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9,621	Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent Quixote, exactly. We don't know what's what and we don't know what will be. We live in a world of nature and are subject to it. Thank you very much for your response. Nope, sure enough it made a popart, just as predicted. So much for your unknowable world. Makes me wonder how your god likes being trapped in all those "D" battery appliances though.
	__________________ If people needed video games to live, a national single payer plan to fund those purchases would be a great idea.

11th May 2008, 12:02 AM	#14
BillC Bazooka Joe Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,035	Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description. With love and appreciation and gratitude, Canadian Malcontent You'll have a job trying to provide an accurate description of 'electricity', for the term is a vague one, and is generally not used in modern science. In a more colloquial setting, 'electricity' is the name given to a whole series of phenomena resulting from the presence and motion of electric charge. You would have done better in your OP asking what electric charge was.
BillC Bazooka Joe Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,035	__________________ "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams "If homeopathy works, then obviously the less you use it, the stronger it gets. So the best way to apply homeopathy is to not use it at all." - Phil Plait Do you want to know about Sylvia Browne?

11th May 2008, 12:07 AM	#15
X Slide Rulez 4 Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Launching the army, waiting for Hok to commit her forces (then the moles strike...) Posts: 4,082	Electricity is the flow of electrons (if DC). Or the vibration of them, if AC. At least, that's my limited understanding. I'm not an electrical engineeri. I realized that wasn't for me when I first saw a circuit analysis. Besides, Sparky's are to blame for i.
	__________________ It is sad that this is necessary: Argumentum Ad Hominem: "You are wrong because you are ugly." Not Ad-Hom: "You are wrong and you are ugly." [X's posts are] ...as good as having 24 hours of Justin Bieber piped into your ears! - kmortis Last edited by X; 11th May 2008 at 12:09 AM.

11th May 2008, 01:24 AM	#17
Lensman Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Caerphilly Posts: 1,411	Electricity is is the flow of electrons through a conductor, if you disagree or can't understand that, it's no fault of mine.
	__________________ When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty. I have learned that if you upset your wife, she nags you. If you upset her even more you get the silent treatment. Don't you think it's worth the extra effort?

11th May 2008, 01:27 AM	#18
tomwaits Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 2,288	why was my previous post deleted? here it is again Quote: ok what IS magnetism, anyway? i know it's an observable fact, but what is the reasoning behind the effect?

11th May 2008, 01:35 AM	#19
Dave_46 Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK (south Bucks) Posts: 939	Originally Posted by BillC You'll have a job trying to provide an accurate description of 'electricity', for the term is a vague one, and is generally not used in modern science. In a more colloquial setting, 'electricity' is the name given to a whole series of phenomena resulting from the presence and motion of electric charge. You would have done better in your OP asking what electric charge was. Agreed Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description. With love and appreciation and gratitude, Canadian Malcontent Canadian Malcontent It is better not to make assumptions about people you do not know. I have no "god", but my understanding is that other posters here are religious. So, your first sentence is incorrect. IF (and its a big if) science can not yet explain electricity so what. It can explain the effects of the movement of electrons adequately to use them with confidence - you, for instance, are able to send your message to people all over the world. Dave

11th May 2008, 01:58 AM	#20
Lensman Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Caerphilly Posts: 1,411	Well said Dave.
	__________________ When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty. I have learned that if you upset your wife, she nags you. If you upset her even more you get the silent treatment. Don't you think it's worth the extra effort?

11th May 2008, 02:49 AM	#22
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent Exactly. You can describe the behaviour but you can't describe the substance. There's a difference?
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	__________________ The phrase deus ex machina (literally "god out of a machine") describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot...

11th May 2008, 03:58 AM	#24
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,772	Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description. With love and appreciation and gratitude, Canadian Malcontent It's what I made a living from for 44 years. When you move a wire in a magnetic field electricity results. I do not think you are here get answers but to give answers.

11th May 2008, 04:55 AM	#25
Klimax NWO cyborg (3930K inside) Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9 Posts: 7,888	Electromagnetism at Wikipedia If you get through those pages at wiki (most of them) and will want to discuss/know more,feel free... BTW.They are using advanced math,but can be understand even without that,in case I migth try to locat High school(US)/Grammer school(GB) physic.

11th May 2008, 05:09 AM	#26
dacium2007 Scholar Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 96	Some people have some misconceptions about electricity. Current does not flow in electric ciruits. Charge flows in electric circuits and that flow of charge is called a current. Electricity requires flow of charge, positive or negetive, subatomic or ionic. You can have electricity without having electrons (by having mobile charges in the form of protons or charged ions, anything with an electic charge). It is a shame electrons are named electrons and not negetrons, as people seem to think that moving electrons is electricity. It is not the movement of electrons which delivers power in an electric circuit. In an DC circuit electrons move very slow, about 3 inches PER MINUTE! In AC circuits that don't move at all, they just get pushed very very slightly backwards and forwards, usually not even far enough to move from more than a few atoms back and forth. No electron in your electricity has come from the power company though the power lines. It isn't the electrons pushing on each other to move the circuit either. Its the electric field of the electrons which is felt at a distance. So the first electron only moves a little and the next is and so on, and at nearly the speed of light the entire circuit has electrons now moving, but the electrons themselves only move extremely slowly and its the ability of the generator to put a huge electric field to push on the electron (through the electric field) the most that is electrical power.
dacium2007 Scholar Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 96	Last edited by dacium2007; 11th May 2008 at 05:13 AM.

11th May 2008, 05:44 AM	#27
JEROME DA GNOME Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Land of Pleasant Living Posts: 8,932	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam Electrickery is caused by a huge number of demons, trapped by a spell inside a wire, who rage to and fro , attempting to escape. In their frenzied efforts, they make lights go on and stuff. I never knew!

11th May 2008, 05:49 AM	#28
TheDaver hairy farting brute Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montréal Posts: 972	Canadian Malcontent… Socrates, you are not.

11th May 2008, 06:45 AM	#29
Paulhoff You can't expect perfection. Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 12,570	Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description. With love and appreciation and gratitude, Canadian Malcontent CM comes in with a bad attitude, what does one expect, only pleasant answers. With that attitude, why would one want to waste any long amount of time explaining what can be found on the internet. Paul
	__________________ For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST" Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

11th May 2008, 07:41 AM	#30
Ryan O'Dine OD’ing on Damitol Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Walk in an ever expanding Archimedean spiral and you’ll find me eventually Posts: 1,184	Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent As always, your god, Science, speaks a b c d e f g...but speaks no intonation and no words, and all the things that matter remain undesrcibed. For example, what is electricity. We use it, we know how it behaves, but we don't know what it is. Does the cult of Science wish to describe electricity? I'm sure the academic community will be most interested in an accurate description. With love and appreciation and gratitude, Canadian Malcontent The real genius of science is not in explaining exactly what a thing is, but in predicting what a thing will do next. The theory of electromagnetism is a wonderful case in point. The closer we get to describing an electron, the more slippery the darn thing gets. On the other hand, the theory of quantum electrodynamics is probably the most complete and accurate theory in all of science. It has predicted things the equivalent of measuring the distance from L.A. to N.Y. to within a human hair’s breadth of accuracy (if I recall my Feynman). Your question isn’t really about electricity, it’s about what science can do. Reformulate your question, do the research people here have suggested, and you’re sure to find yourself greatly enlightened.
	__________________ I collect people like you in little formaldehyde bottles in my basement. (Not a threat. A hobby.)

11th May 2008, 08:11 AM	#31
Paulhoff You can't expect perfection. Join Date: May 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 12,570	You watch a river, and see that the water flows pass you, do you know every fish, rock, plant, etc in that river, no, but you do see the flow even if you don’t know everything about that river or the water that makes it. Paul
	__________________ For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST" Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

11th May 2008, 08:53 AM	#32
The Gnomon Scholar Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In Dark Energy! Posts: 107	The word "electricity" is a reification of a process. (Reification is the process by which an action is expressed by a noun, for example, the word "reification.")
	__________________ -Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once-

11th May 2008, 09:07 AM	#33
robinson Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,136	That thing about charge and current has always been a bit hard to believe. Like plasma balls. Until you see one, it is hard to believe some of the stuff that electromagnetism can do. And it does it so fast. Based on current terminology, I tend to think in terms of "Electromagnetism" rather than electricity. Unless I am working on house current, in which case I go back to the old fashioned terminology. Because nobody wants to hear me yelling, "Is the electromagnetism on this circuit off or not?". [slight derail] As was expected, some of this thread went off to AAH. Including my plea to hijack the topic with a real conversation about electricity. Originally Posted by Darat Canadian Malcontent has been suspended for 3 days for multiple breaches of his Membership Agreement. [/derail]
robinson Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,136	Last edited by robinson; 11th May 2008 at 09:24 AM. Reason: addendum

11th May 2008, 10:30 AM	#34
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	It's an unfortunate holdover, since humans knew about electricity before electrons...
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	__________________ This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group. Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key

11th May 2008, 10:43 AM	#35
robinson Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,136	In an ironic twist, electrons are named that, because of amber. OK maybe that isn't ironic, but it is something. I'm pretty sure the Greeks knew about atoms. They invented the word.
robinson Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,136	Last edited by robinson; 11th May 2008 at 10:46 AM. Reason: addendum

11th May 2008, 12:24 PM	#36
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	And of course, Wikipedia is our friend... "Electricity" in 1646 Electricity and "Electron" in 1874 Electron Both words derived from the Greek for Amber...
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	__________________ This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group. Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key

11th May 2008, 01:28 PM	#37
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,947	Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent And may God's Love be with you. And I wish you nothing back in response to your wish of nothing to us. Oh, actually, electricity is the energy carried/transferred by those moving electrons (they do not move along the carrier, they transfer energy by way of the wire/conducter).
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,947

11th May 2008, 02:52 PM	#38
kedo1981 Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: ohio Posts: 2,080	It appears that our friend from the north is holding to some 18th century notions about electricity. It’s not a fluid, it’s a behavior exhibited by conductive substances.
	__________________ "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good" (I Thessalonians 5:21) I readily admit I don’t know enough to say for sure that there is no God. But I do know enough so say that anyone who claims to know the mind and will of a being such as God is a liar. I have no problem with Jesus, but his fan club sucks!

11th May 2008, 03:39 PM	#39
Ginarley Post-normalist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Palmy, NZ Posts: 1,334	What is Electricity? Here is one answer: Quote: Electricity is a mysterious incomprehensible entity which is invisible AND visible BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. Also, it's both matter and energy. It's a type of low-frequency radio wave which is made of protons. It is a mysterious force which looks like blue-white fire, and yet cannot be seen. It moves forward at the speed of light... yet it vibrates in the AC cord without flowing forwards at all. It's totally weightless, yet it has a small weight. When electricity flows through a light bulb's filament, it gets changed entirely into light. Yet no electricity is ever used up by the light bulb, and every bit of it flows out of the filament and back down the other wire. College textbooks are full of electricity, yet they have no electric charge! Electricity is a class of phenomena which can be stored in batteries! If you want to measure a quantity of electricity, what units should you use? Why Volts of electricity, of course. And also Coulombs of electricity, Amperes, Watts, and Joules, all at the same time. Yet "electricity" is a class of phenomena; it's a type of event. Since we can't have an AMOUNT of an event, we can't really measure the quantity of electricity at all... right? Heh heh. Taken from an interesting article here. For those that don't like reading articles, it explains that electricity has multiple meanings depending on context but these meanings are incorrectly used interchangeably. The above quote is the amusing result of conflating them all.
	__________________ "What we need is less gasping and more thinking" - Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow pp147 http://authorofconfusion.wordpress.com/