Will Smith funds school teaching Scientology creator's study method

Rrose Selavy · 19th May 2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Actor Will Smith is funding his own private school that will teach youngsters using an educational system devised in part by the Scientology cult.
The curriculum at Smith's New Village Academy of Calabasas, on which he has spent nearly £500,000, uses different educational theories including "study technology" – a learning method developed by L Ron Hubbard, the founder of the Church of Scientology.

More here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...9/usa.filmnews

Achán hiNidráne · 19th May 2008, 04:30 PM

Great, there's another name to add my list of actors I'm boycotting.

Complexity · 19th May 2008, 04:31 PM

Yep. I've seen my last Will Smith movie.

Kochanski · 19th May 2008, 04:34 PM

Ugh, me too. This is all we need the start of Co$ training in a school of any sort in the US.

MattusMaximus · 19th May 2008, 09:36 PM

Damn it! And I was so looking forward to seeing "Hancock", too.

Well, that's it then. Will Smith is on my "ignore" list along with Tom Cruise... plonk!

Eskarina · 19th May 2008, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kochanski

Ugh, me too. This is all we need the start of Co$ training in a school of any sort in the US.

Too late!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Schools

CFLarsen · 20th May 2008, 12:00 AM

The gym classes include "Jumping on couch"...

Big Les · 20th May 2008, 04:04 AM

Not only are schools using "Study Tech" effectively front groups to either cater to Scientologist's and their children or to recruit children of the unwary, but the "tech" itself is unsound. It's not approved by any educational body that I'm aware of, and was developed by someone with no relevant background or qualifications. It also draws directly from Dianetics and Scientology e.g. the "misunderstood word" as some sort of mythical impediment to understanding. I for one learned a great deal precisely by skipping past words I didn't understand, looking them up later on - learning their meaning in context rather than from a dictionary or god forbid, a Hubbard-penned glossary. Study Tech dictates that you stop reading at an "MU" and define it before continuing.

Upchurch · 20th May 2008, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Rrose Selavy

More here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...9/usa.filmnews

Red Flag:

Quote:

Until now, the I Am Legend star and his wife Jada Pinkett have been home schooling [their two children].

Ocelot · 20th May 2008, 08:57 AM

Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion.

I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good.

bokonon · 20th May 2008, 09:16 AM

I'm not going to stop seeing entertaining movies just because some nutcase is involved in some way. I didn't stop watching "The Simpsons" when Nancy "voice of Bart" Cartwright's pamphlets for "Happy House" arrived in the mail.

It does make one wonder about all the rebranding that's going on with Scientology's "tech." Narconon, Delphi School, Happy House. I suppose it's really no more insidious than soup kitchens that give you a sermon with the meal, but it is interesting how much effort they put into hiding the "Scientology" name.

joobz · 20th May 2008, 09:24 AM

what I don't get is that WS seems to deny being a scientologist.

MichelQC · 20th May 2008, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion.

I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good.

Ocelot I'm with you on that one. Personnaly I have no problem with recognizing that both Tom cruise and Will Smith are good at their primary craft (acting), while acknowledging that they're seriously deluded elsewhere. Accordingly I can watch they're movies and enjoy them and that will not for a second reconcile me with the fraud of scientology.

Kilgore Trout · 20th May 2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

And when it comes to discipline: "If a child makes a wrong decision, instead of going to the principal's office, he or she speaks to the ethics teacher."

fuelair · 20th May 2008, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion.

I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good.

If a trusted friend does, and you do, the trust factor will go down a bit.

Bob Klase · 20th May 2008, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good.

Having tried to read some of it years ago I'd say that if anyone told you that, they're not a friend.

Moochie · 20th May 2008, 10:36 AM

It seems the Smiths were home-schooling their kids. That alone gives me cause for concern.

M.

MattusMaximus · 20th May 2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by bokonon

I'm not going to stop seeing entertaining movies just because some nutcase is involved in some way. I didn't stop watching "The Simpsons" when Nancy "voice of Bart" Cartwright's pamphlets for "Happy House" arrived in the mail.

There's a big difference - I don't pay money to watch the Simpsons on TV. I'm not going to give any money to a movie starring Tom Cruise or Will Smith any longer. They've both jumped the couch, and I'm not interested in spreading the $cientology doctrine with my cash.

Quote:

It does make one wonder about all the rebranding that's going on with Scientology's "tech." Narconon, Delphi School, Happy House. I suppose it's really no more insidious than soup kitchens that give you a sermon with the meal, but it is interesting how much effort they put into hiding the "Scientology" name.

I disagree. I think it's much more insidious.

Originally Posted by MichelQC

Ocelot I'm with you on that one. Personnaly I have no problem with recognizing that both Tom cruise and Will Smith are good at their primary craft (acting), while acknowledging that they're seriously deluded elsewhere. Accordingly I can watch they're movies and enjoy them and that will not for a second reconcile me with the fraud of scientology.

I agree that they're good actors - no doubt about it. And if I were viewing one of their movies for free (say, via the Internet) then there's no big deal. My contention is that I don't want to give these whackjobs any more money for them to funnel into the mental septic tank that is $cientology doctrine.

homer · 20th May 2008, 01:30 PM

Who's Will Smith ?
I quite liked Jim Kruise in 'The Firm' even though they failed to kill him in the end . As for John Trevolting in 'Battleaxe Earth ' ...

bokonon · 20th May 2008, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

There's a big difference - I don't pay money to watch the Simpsons on TV. I'm not going to give any money to a movie starring Tom Cruise or Will Smith any longer.

Most of the movies I see these days are on TV or DVD long after their theatrical run, but I'm not going to have a moral crisis if I happen to see "Hancock" in the theater. Smith's cut (if any) of the studio's cut (50%) of my $10 ticket won't even buy him a stick of gum, much less enslave the minds of a whole new generation.

ETA: Somebody around here has a signature that says something like "Prayer: A way to pretend you're making a difference by doing nothing." That's kind of the way I feel about boycotting actors because of their religious or political views.

Rrose Selavy · 20th May 2008, 03:55 PM

The Hubbard association with Hollywood goes back a long way - seems that Gloria Swanson was sometime associated with him or his "ideas" according to some list of Scientolgists I saw posted on the net . Even if it was called Danetics in those days. Possibly something to do with vitamin pills but I don't know much more though just googled this:

Quote:

In 1950 Dianetics was being taken up with great enthusiasm in San Francisco and Los Angeles, and it had become a fad among the well-to-do movie stars of the time. Gloria Swanson was one of the stars who received lengthy processing and the great jazz pianist, Dave Brubeck, made the claim that it had helped him in his musical career. A relation of Cecil B. de Mille even used his influence to get the phrase `Dianetic processing' inserted into the scripts of a number of `B' movies in place of the word `psychoanalysis', and as a result uncomprehending movie audiences from Harwich to Hong Kong heard a well-known actress announce in one film that she was late for a `Dianetic session'.

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel...ans/teeth.html

Complexity · 20th May 2008, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion.

I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good.

You'll have to decide for yourself.

For me, it's an easy decision.

Tanstaafl · 21st May 2008, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by homer

Who's Will Smith ?
I quite liked Jim Kruise in 'The Firm' even though they failed to kill him in the end . As for John Trevolting in 'Battleaxe Earth ' ...

I think you mean John Revolting, in Battlefeces Earth.

AkuManiMani · 21st May 2008, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good.

Judging from the quality of the sci-fi material hes based his own cult on I would say that he just a strait-up awful novelist.

MattusMaximus · 21st May 2008, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by bokonon

Most of the movies I see these days are on TV or DVD long after their theatrical run, but I'm not going to have a moral crisis if I happen to see "Hancock" in the theater. Smith's cut (if any) of the studio's cut (50%) of my $10 ticket won't even buy him a stick of gum, much less enslave the minds of a whole new generation.

You are one person. There's strength in numbers. Just ask Anonymous.

Quote:

ETA: Somebody around here has a signature that says something like "Prayer: A way to pretend you're making a difference by doing nothing." That's kind of the way I feel about boycotting actors because of their religious or political views.

Boycotts can work, given a critical mass of people who take part in the boycott. It's simple math.

Watching a movie with WS or TC in it isn't something you have to do, it's something you choose to do. You need oxygen; you do not need to be entertained by a $cientology drone who is going to use your cash to further their insanity.

MattusMaximus · 21st May 2008, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tanstaafl

I think you mean John Revolting, in Battlefeces Earth.

That's an insult to feces, ya know

bokonon · 21st May 2008, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

You are one person. There's strength in numbers. Just ask Anonymous.

Peaceful protest and honest education is fine.

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Watching a movie with WS or TC in it isn't something you have to do, it's something you choose to do. You need oxygen; you do not need to be entertained by a $cientology drone who is going to use your cash to further their insanity.

No, but I decide what movies to see by the experience I expect it to deliver. You're free to choose your own criteria.

When I hear polls about how x% of Americans wouldn't vote for an atheist, I regard that as religious bigotry. As long as a person is qualified, I think their religion (or lack of it) should be nobody's business. I have a hard time seeing how boycotting movies because of an actor's religious beliefs is "good" bigotry, while refusing to buy scripts from writers who were suspected of being at any time members of the communist party is "bad" bigotry. Is there something I've overlooked that would distinguish this fledgling boycott from McCarthyism's blacklist?

Complexity · 22nd May 2008, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by bokonon

When I hear polls about how x% of Americans wouldn't vote for an atheist, I regard that as religious bigotry. As long as a person is qualified, I think their religion (or lack of it) should be nobody's business. I have a hard time seeing how boycotting movies because of an actor's religious beliefs is "good" bigotry, while refusing to buy scripts from writers who were suspected of being at any time members of the communist party is "bad" bigotry. Is there something I've overlooked that would distinguish this fledgling boycott from McCarthyism's blacklist?

I think you're using the wrong analogy.

I think not wanting to watch a movie that features a scientologist is closer to not wanting to watch a movie by an actor who is a wife beater, or who slashed and killed his ex-wife and her friend, or who doesn't support his children, or who is a cruel, backstabbing bastard.

Also, the McCarthy blacklist was a top-down effort by a corrupt and evil government, rather than a grass-roots effort by people who'd rather not financially support and encourage scientology, which is an evil cult.

Ocelot · 22nd May 2008, 02:43 AM

I don't know what proportion of scientologists funds come from which sources. I know some comes from Hubbards estate, some comes from the training they sell. There's probaly additional contribution made by higyh profile supporters. I know that Hollywoods A listers can easily afford such training and contributions and some the harm scientology does is in getting young people who can ill afford thus dubious investment, financially indebted to the organisation.

If every single film starring Tom Cruise's, Will Smith or John Trevolting's tanked from now on, if even films in which they had a cameo underperformed, if they never earned another penny from any reruns of Grease, Risky Business or Fresh Prince of Bell Air they'd still all be fabulously weathly people able to live comfortably on their investments for the rest of their lives. Comfortably enough to include continuing donations to the Church of Scientology or more CoS training perhaps even TC needs a refresher now and again. However even if all those Hollywood stars never paid another penny to the Church what difference do you think that would make? What proportion of their funding comes from the few high profile memebers?

bokonon · 22nd May 2008, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Complexity

I think you're using the wrong analogy.

I think not wanting to watch a movie that features a scientologist is closer to not wanting to watch a movie by an actor who is a wife beater, or who slashed and killed his ex-wife and her friend, or who doesn't support his children, or who is a cruel, backstabbing bastard.

In both cases you're talking about specific actions by specific people. It seems to me the boycott you're advocating doesn't deal with action at all, and tars everyone with the brush of belief.

Originally Posted by Complexity

Also, the McCarthy blacklist was a top-down effort by a corrupt and evil government, rather than a grass-roots effort by people who'd rather not financially support and encourage scientology, which is an evil cult.

So when it comes to bigotry, it's "Top down baaaaaad, bottom up goooood"?

May I presume the Ku Klux Klan meets your criteria for goodness?

Aside from the fact that it's unlikely to make any difference whatsoever in the movies for which WS and TC are cast, or the salaries they're paid to star in them, I'm still having a hard time seeing the difference between this boycott and a blacklist. Certainly the movie moguls who were blacklisting writers in the 50s could have argued that they were only bowing to the will of the "bottom up" people, by providing them with movies that were free of the taint of the communist conspiracy.

As I say, you're free to watch or not watch any movie for any reason. I think education is a better way to combat the evil cult, and education is the tactic I endorse. I won't be joining your boycott.

19th May 2008, 03:57 PM	#1
Rrose Selavy Stranded in Sub-Atomica Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 2,925	Will Smith funds school teaching Scientology creator's study method Quote: Actor Will Smith is funding his own private school that will teach youngsters using an educational system devised in part by the Scientology cult. The curriculum at Smith's New Village Academy of Calabasas, on which he has spent nearly £500,000, uses different educational theories including "study technology" – a learning method developed by L Ron Hubbard, the founder of the Church of Scientology. More here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...9/usa.filmnews

19th May 2008, 04:30 PM	#2
Achán hiNidráne Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Muskego, WI. Posts: 3,979	Great, there's another name to add my list of actors I'm boycotting.
	__________________ "As the Corpse Lord knows, men today are ill-trained--ignoble: naught but wet anuses dribbling childish terrors and superstitions! Thus is knowledge--history, science, the world of the ancients--lost, never to be regained!" --M.A.R. Barker, "The Man of Gold" Last edited by Achán hiNidráne; 19th May 2008 at 04:30 PM.

19th May 2008, 04:31 PM	#3
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Yep. I've seen my last Will Smith movie.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

19th May 2008, 04:34 PM	#4
Kochanski Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Anonymous Unimportant Place (not a secret Scorpion training facility for Shosuro ninjas) Posts: 2,666	Ugh, me too. This is all we need the start of Co$ training in a school of any sort in the US.
	__________________ The faith of a skeptic is always in doubt Ninja weasel courtesy of http://www.cheeseweasel.net I-con 31 - March 30 - April, 1, 2012 - There is no place like home - Stony Brook http://www.iconsf.org/

19th May 2008, 09:36 PM	#5
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Damn it! And I was so looking forward to seeing "Hancock", too. Well, that's it then. Will Smith is on my "ignore" list along with Tom Cruise... plonk!
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

19th May 2008, 09:46 PM	#6
Eskarina Touched By His Noodly Appendages Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 637	Originally Posted by Kochanski Ugh, me too. This is all we need the start of Co$ training in a school of any sort in the US. Too late! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Schools
	__________________ Businesses come and go, and their emergences and dwindlings're as the waxing and waning of the moons. Religions stay around forever, tax-exempted to boot. What could be better than an organization where the consumer blames himself for product failure? - National Lampoon's Doon, Ellis Weiner

20th May 2008, 12:00 AM	#7
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	The gym classes include "Jumping on couch"...
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

20th May 2008, 04:04 AM	#8
Big Les Not so much a medium as a large Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,004	Not only are schools using "Study Tech" effectively front groups to either cater to Scientologist's and their children or to recruit children of the unwary, but the "tech" itself is unsound. It's not approved by any educational body that I'm aware of, and was developed by someone with no relevant background or qualifications. It also draws directly from Dianetics and Scientology e.g. the "misunderstood word" as some sort of mythical impediment to understanding. I for one learned a great deal precisely by skipping past words I didn't understand, looking them up later on - learning their meaning in context rather than from a dictionary or god forbid, a Hubbard-penned glossary. Study Tech dictates that you stop reading at an "MU" and define it before continuing.
	__________________ "Feeling you’ve done something is not quite the same as the empirical scientific proof." -Stephen Fry The BS Historian Last edited by Big Les; 20th May 2008 at 04:05 AM.

20th May 2008, 08:47 AM	#9
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,426	Originally Posted by Rrose Selavy More here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...9/usa.filmnews Red Flag: Quote: Until now, the I Am Legend star and his wife Jada Pinkett have been home schooling [their two children].

20th May 2008, 08:57 AM	#10
Ocelot Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 3,016	Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion. I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good.

20th May 2008, 09:16 AM	#11
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	The church that dare not speak its name I'm not going to stop seeing entertaining movies just because some nutcase is involved in some way. I didn't stop watching "The Simpsons" when Nancy "voice of Bart" Cartwright's pamphlets for "Happy House" arrived in the mail. It does make one wonder about all the rebranding that's going on with Scientology's "tech." Narconon, Delphi School, Happy House. I suppose it's really no more insidious than soup kitchens that give you a sermon with the meal, but it is interesting how much effort they put into hiding the "Scientology" name.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Last edited by bokonon; 20th May 2008 at 09:42 AM. Reason: Narcanon -> Narconon

20th May 2008, 09:24 AM	#12
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,497	what I don't get is that WS seems to deny being a scientologist.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

20th May 2008, 09:49 AM	#13
MichelQC Scholar Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 95	Originally Posted by Ocelot Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion. I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good. Ocelot I'm with you on that one. Personnaly I have no problem with recognizing that both Tom cruise and Will Smith are good at their primary craft (acting), while acknowledging that they're seriously deluded elsewhere. Accordingly I can watch they're movies and enjoy them and that will not for a second reconcile me with the fraud of scientology.

20th May 2008, 09:59 AM	#14
Kilgore Trout Wuse Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tralfamadore Posts: 1,443	Quote: And when it comes to discipline: "If a child makes a wrong decision, instead of going to the principal's office, he or she speaks to the ethics teacher."
	__________________ “I don't even know how to count.” -- Sylvia BrowneThis is invisible.“We're playing for blood, the stake is EARTH.” -- L. Ron HubbardThis is invisible.“I don't feel strong.” -- Uri Geller

20th May 2008, 10:00 AM	#15
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,957	Originally Posted by Ocelot Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion. I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good. If a trusted friend does, and you do, the trust factor will go down a bit.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,957

20th May 2008, 10:24 AM	#16
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by Ocelot I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good. Having tried to read some of it years ago I'd say that if anyone told you that, they're not a friend.
	Last edited by Bob Klase; 20th May 2008 at 10:24 AM.

20th May 2008, 10:36 AM	#17
Moochie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,495	It seems the Smiths were home-schooling their kids. That alone gives me cause for concern. M.
Moochie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,495	__________________

20th May 2008, 12:50 PM	#18
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by bokonon I'm not going to stop seeing entertaining movies just because some nutcase is involved in some way. I didn't stop watching "The Simpsons" when Nancy "voice of Bart" Cartwright's pamphlets for "Happy House" arrived in the mail. There's a big difference - I don't pay money to watch the Simpsons on TV. I'm not going to give any money to a movie starring Tom Cruise or Will Smith any longer. They've both jumped the couch, and I'm not interested in spreading the $cientology doctrine with my cash. Quote: It does make one wonder about all the rebranding that's going on with Scientology's "tech." Narconon, Delphi School, Happy House. I suppose it's really no more insidious than soup kitchens that give you a sermon with the meal, but it is interesting how much effort they put into hiding the "Scientology" name. I disagree. I think it's much more insidious. Originally Posted by MichelQC Ocelot I'm with you on that one. Personnaly I have no problem with recognizing that both Tom cruise and Will Smith are good at their primary craft (acting), while acknowledging that they're seriously deluded elsewhere. Accordingly I can watch they're movies and enjoy them and that will not for a second reconcile me with the fraud of scientology. I agree that they're good actors - no doubt about it. And if I were viewing one of their movies for free (say, via the Internet) then there's no big deal. My contention is that I don't want to give these whackjobs any more money for them to funnel into the mental septic tank that is $cientology doctrine.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin' Last edited by MattusMaximus; 20th May 2008 at 12:53 PM.

20th May 2008, 01:30 PM	#19
homer Thinker Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Devon England Posts: 221	Who's Will Smith ? I quite liked Jim Kruise in 'The Firm' even though they failed to kill him in the end . As for John Trevolting in 'Battleaxe Earth ' ...

20th May 2008, 01:40 PM	#20
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus There's a big difference - I don't pay money to watch the Simpsons on TV. I'm not going to give any money to a movie starring Tom Cruise or Will Smith any longer. Most of the movies I see these days are on TV or DVD long after their theatrical run, but I'm not going to have a moral crisis if I happen to see "Hancock" in the theater. Smith's cut (if any) of the studio's cut (50%) of my $10 ticket won't even buy him a stick of gum, much less enslave the minds of a whole new generation. ETA: Somebody around here has a signature that says something like "Prayer: A way to pretend you're making a difference by doing nothing." That's kind of the way I feel about boycotting actors because of their religious or political views.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Last edited by bokonon; 20th May 2008 at 01:42 PM.

20th May 2008, 03:55 PM	#21
Rrose Selavy Stranded in Sub-Atomica Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: UK Posts: 2,925	The Hubbard association with Hollywood goes back a long way - seems that Gloria Swanson was sometime associated with him or his "ideas" according to some list of Scientolgists I saw posted on the net . Even if it was called Danetics in those days. Possibly something to do with vitamin pills but I don't know much more though just googled this: Quote: In 1950 Dianetics was being taken up with great enthusiasm in San Francisco and Los Angeles, and it had become a fad among the well-to-do movie stars of the time. Gloria Swanson was one of the stars who received lengthy processing and the great jazz pianist, Dave Brubeck, made the claim that it had helped him in his musical career. A relation of Cecil B. de Mille even used his influence to get the phrase `Dianetic processing' inserted into the scripts of a number of `B' movies in place of the word `psychoanalysis', and as a result uncomprehending movie audiences from Harwich to Hong Kong heard a well-known actress announce in one film that she was late for a `Dianetic session'. http://www.whyaretheydead.net/krasel...ans/teeth.html
	Last edited by Rrose Selavy; 20th May 2008 at 03:58 PM.

20th May 2008, 04:21 PM	#22
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Ocelot Is boycotting Will Smith or Tom Cruise movies worth it? I can't help feeling I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. I enjoy many of their movies (more WC than TC) I do't coputn watching their work as any form of endorsement of their religion. I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good. You'll have to decide for yourself. For me, it's an easy decision.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

21st May 2008, 10:30 AM	#23
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by homer Who's Will Smith ? I quite liked Jim Kruise in 'The Firm' even though they failed to kill him in the end . As for John Trevolting in 'Battleaxe Earth ' ... I think you mean John Revolting, in Battlefeces Earth.
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21st May 2008, 06:08 PM	#24
AkuManiMani Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: On the crumbly edge of Is and Maybe Posts: 3,089	Originally Posted by Ocelot I mean I'd even read L Ron Hubbards Science fiction if a trusted friend told me it was any good. Judging from the quality of the sci-fi material hes based his own cult on I would say that he just a strait-up awful novelist.
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21st May 2008, 10:20 PM	#25
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by bokonon Most of the movies I see these days are on TV or DVD long after their theatrical run, but I'm not going to have a moral crisis if I happen to see "Hancock" in the theater. Smith's cut (if any) of the studio's cut (50%) of my $10 ticket won't even buy him a stick of gum, much less enslave the minds of a whole new generation. You are one person. There's strength in numbers. Just ask Anonymous. Quote: ETA: Somebody around here has a signature that says something like "Prayer: A way to pretend you're making a difference by doing nothing." That's kind of the way I feel about boycotting actors because of their religious or political views. Boycotts can work, given a critical mass of people who take part in the boycott. It's simple math. Watching a movie with WS or TC in it isn't something you have to do, it's something you choose to do. You need oxygen; you do not need to be entertained by a $cientology drone who is going to use your cash to further their insanity.
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21st May 2008, 10:21 PM	#26
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by Tanstaafl I think you mean John Revolting, in Battlefeces Earth. That's an insult to feces, ya know
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21st May 2008, 11:10 PM	#27
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus You are one person. There's strength in numbers. Just ask Anonymous. Peaceful protest and honest education is fine. Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Watching a movie with WS or TC in it isn't something you have to do, it's something you choose to do. You need oxygen; you do not need to be entertained by a $cientology drone who is going to use your cash to further their insanity. No, but I decide what movies to see by the experience I expect it to deliver. You're free to choose your own criteria. When I hear polls about how x% of Americans wouldn't vote for an atheist, I regard that as religious bigotry. As long as a person is qualified, I think their religion (or lack of it) should be nobody's business. I have a hard time seeing how boycotting movies because of an actor's religious beliefs is "good" bigotry, while refusing to buy scripts from writers who were suspected of being at any time members of the communist party is "bad" bigotry. Is there something I've overlooked that would distinguish this fledgling boycott from McCarthyism's blacklist?
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444

22nd May 2008, 01:28 AM	#28
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by bokonon When I hear polls about how x% of Americans wouldn't vote for an atheist, I regard that as religious bigotry. As long as a person is qualified, I think their religion (or lack of it) should be nobody's business. I have a hard time seeing how boycotting movies because of an actor's religious beliefs is "good" bigotry, while refusing to buy scripts from writers who were suspected of being at any time members of the communist party is "bad" bigotry. Is there something I've overlooked that would distinguish this fledgling boycott from McCarthyism's blacklist? I think you're using the wrong analogy. I think not wanting to watch a movie that features a scientologist is closer to not wanting to watch a movie by an actor who is a wife beater, or who slashed and killed his ex-wife and her friend, or who doesn't support his children, or who is a cruel, backstabbing bastard. Also, the McCarthy blacklist was a top-down effort by a corrupt and evil government, rather than a grass-roots effort by people who'd rather not financially support and encourage scientology, which is an evil cult.
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22nd May 2008, 02:43 AM	#29
Ocelot Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 3,016	I don't know what proportion of scientologists funds come from which sources. I know some comes from Hubbards estate, some comes from the training they sell. There's probaly additional contribution made by higyh profile supporters. I know that Hollywoods A listers can easily afford such training and contributions and some the harm scientology does is in getting young people who can ill afford thus dubious investment, financially indebted to the organisation. If every single film starring Tom Cruise's, Will Smith or John Trevolting's tanked from now on, if even films in which they had a cameo underperformed, if they never earned another penny from any reruns of Grease, Risky Business or Fresh Prince of Bell Air they'd still all be fabulously weathly people able to live comfortably on their investments for the rest of their lives. Comfortably enough to include continuing donations to the Church of Scientology or more CoS training perhaps even TC needs a refresher now and again. However even if all those Hollywood stars never paid another penny to the Church what difference do you think that would make? What proportion of their funding comes from the few high profile memebers?

22nd May 2008, 05:50 AM	#30
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Originally Posted by Complexity I think you're using the wrong analogy. I think not wanting to watch a movie that features a scientologist is closer to not wanting to watch a movie by an actor who is a wife beater, or who slashed and killed his ex-wife and her friend, or who doesn't support his children, or who is a cruel, backstabbing bastard. In both cases you're talking about specific actions by specific people. It seems to me the boycott you're advocating doesn't deal with action at all, and tars everyone with the brush of belief. Originally Posted by Complexity Also, the McCarthy blacklist was a top-down effort by a corrupt and evil government, rather than a grass-roots effort by people who'd rather not financially support and encourage scientology, which is an evil cult. So when it comes to bigotry, it's "Top down baaaaaad, bottom up goooood"? May I presume the Ku Klux Klan meets your criteria for goodness? Aside from the fact that it's unlikely to make any difference whatsoever in the movies for which WS and TC are cast, or the salaries they're paid to star in them, I'm still having a hard time seeing the difference between this boycott and a blacklist. Certainly the movie moguls who were blacklisting writers in the 50s could have argued that they were only bowing to the will of the "bottom up" people, by providing them with movies that were free of the taint of the communist conspiracy. As I say, you're free to watch or not watch any movie for any reason. I think education is a better way to combat the evil cult, and education is the tactic I endorse. I won't be joining your boycott.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444