I think my history teacher's promoting woo

[Brandon Pilcher]

At my high school, I'm enrolled in an AP World History class. We've finished both our textbook and our exams, so my teacher decided to shift the class's focus to postmodernism and how our perception of reality is changing. One of the major themes we are now exploring is how "enchanted" the world really is. My teacher thinks that we don't perceive how "connected" we and life on earth are with the rest of the cosmos---I don't know what that means, but he's mentioning quantum stuff, "non-local phenomena", "consciousness fields", and showing us clips from the movie What the [Bleep] Do We Know? He also asserted two things that I am very skeptical about:

1) Studies have confirmed that people's intentions and consciousness can affect the outcomes of random number generators;

2) There is a guy named Sheldrake who thinks that dogs have a strong enough sense of intuition to predict what their owners will do. My teacher tells me Sheldrake's studies have been replicated.

I find both of these claims bothersome, particularly the first, because I cannot imagine how a human mind can manipulate the complex circuitry of a computer. I can't even move little hairs on people sitting next to me; does my teacher expect me to accept that I can affect the functioning of a computer, with all its chips and wires? Furthermore, I don't know if this subject matter is appropriate for a world history course. The general topic of postmodernism, maybe, since it is a cultural development and cultural developments are relevant to history, but not this parapsychology sort of stuff.

[Greanbeens]

I saw those experiments talked about on a Discovery Channel documentary about remote viewing and psi phenonema and the CIA training people...

I think the random number generator experiments yielded an influence of like 0.0001 or something - i don't know enough about the subject to comment on the science of it.

It sounds like your teacher may have seen the same program?

[Prometheus]

It sounds like your teacher wasn't paying attention in Science class.

[laarree]

Wow, I wish I had had my wits about me in high school like you apparently do. Randi has written about Rupert Sheldrake -- I think in "Flim Flam!" -- and googling "sheldrake" on this site brings up lots of references to him. "What the [Bleep] Do We Know?" was made by followers of J.Z. Knight and her "channeled" character "Ramtha", and was called "a rampant example of abuse by charlatans and cults" and given a Pigasus award here in 2004 http://www.randi.org/jr/040105capitalizing.html#11

Sounds like your teacher is a starry-eyed New Age believer.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Wiki article on the movie (including criticism).
PEAR with link to skepdic.

[Explorer]

A quantum particle behaves differently when it is being observed, apparently.

Don't ask me why, but physicists say that it does!

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Explorer

A quantum particle behaves differently when it is being observed, apparently.

Don't ask me why, but physicists say that it does!

I'm not a physicist, but I can tell you it's because in order to observe the particle we have to do something to it that changes its behavior. We're not able yet* to observe them without altering some property of them. As I understand it, this is the source of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

*I don't know if the situation can change or not.

[Gate2501]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

I'm not a physicist, but I can tell you it's because in order to observe the particle we have to do something to it that changes its behavior. We're not able yet* to observe them without altering some property of them. As I understand it, this is the source of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

*I don't know if the situation can change or not.

I was under the impression that reality itself did not have a position for them.

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Gate2501

I was under the impression that reality itself did not have a position for them.

I recall that the electron is more of a smear and it's location is best described by a probability curve, but I think we need to find us a physicist to explain it.

I'm just a mathematician-in-training. I only make the stuff work.

[Gate2501]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

I recall that the electron is more of a smear and it's location is best described by a probability curve, but I think we need to find us a physicist to explain it.

I'm just a mathematician-in-training. I only make the stuff work.

Well I am just a high school educated nerd with too much time on his hands, so yes, we probably need a professional opinion.

[Lothian]

The mind influencing machine experiments were done at PEAR.

In their own words "After nearly 30 years of work in this field, the lab closed its doors at Princeton in February of 2007. The feeling of the founders and lab staff was that while a vast amount of additional study was needed, it could not easily be accomplished in the confines of the university laboratory environment, and that it was time to move on"

Skepdic gives an overview and further links.

[Foolmewunz]

Well, Brandon....

First, I commend you for being astute enough to catch the teacher at this. Second, though you might want to think twice about it if you want to be popular, since I'm sure the class just loves this little side trip into fantasyland...... But, assuming you don't want to call him/her down in class, then at minimum, the teacher should be reported. Post-Modernism has no real place in a high school World History class (I assume AP = Advanced Placement). It's philosophy, at best... (and smarmy woo, at worst).

[Soapy Sam]

It's good thatbyour teacher has you thinking. Teachers are not supposed to feed you stuff they agree with. They are supposed to make you revolt.

Rupert Sheldrake is a very interesting dude, who in my opinion is a fascinating example of how very slightly a scientist has to deviate from the rules to arrive at conclusions which are dead wrong. Study Sheldrake's experimental methodology and you will learn more in a day about how not to set up a double blind experiment than Albert Einstein could have taught you in a year.

Quantum entanglement is indeed very strange.
Quantum anything is very strange.

The universe is indeed connected at all sorts of levels. Physical law applies at all levels;-Cosmology, Astronomy, Geology, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Quantum Mechanics- it all hangs together. Nothing woo about it, just something wonderful. Reality.

Learn two things from your history teacher:-
1. History.
2. It's a very strange and wonderful universe out there, and one of the strangest things is that it is amenable to reason.

I envy you. The next thirty years are going to be interesting times- and I'm too old.

[Brandon Pilcher]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Well, Brandon....

First, I commend you for being astute enough to catch the teacher at this. Second, though you might want to think twice about it if you want to be popular, since I'm sure the class just loves this little side trip into fantasyland...... But, assuming you don't want to call him/her down in class, then at minimum, the teacher should be reported. Post-Modernism has no real place in a high school World History class (I assume AP = Advanced Placement). It's philosophy, at best... (and smarmy woo, at worst).

Who do I report to?

I wouldn't say that my class loves the postmodern/wooish stuff. If anything, a lot of them seem to feel incredulous. I know one fellow student who certainly is.

And yes, AP = Advanced Placement here.

[Soapy Sam]

Don't go that route.
You disagree with what he's telling you, then say so.
Say it politely, firmly and explain your rasoning.
If he's a decent teacher, he'll hear you out and argue back.
Could be this is a learning opportunity for everyone.

If you are going on to college, bear in mind that you will be expected to think for yourself, not to passively absorb what you are told there. You have a chance to practise. Get in there.
ETA- A useful tactic is toi ask him to explain IN DETAIL what he means. This is damn hard with woo reasoning and the person usually ends in a muddle, which is when you go in for the kill.

I wish my teachers had given me the chance. The buggers were always right.

[AgeGap]

In Search of Schrödinger's Cat by John Gribbin is a book I read almost twenty years ago. This book explains about how an observer can alter an experiments outcome.
I seem to remember it was about light being diffracted by two parallel slits and causing an interference pattern. As the light approaches a state where only one photon is emitted at a time the interference pattern will still be registered.
A single photon of light going through both slits at once. Wow.
When the experimenters tried to find the slit the photon went through the diffraction pattern no longer appeared. The photons went through only one slit. Double wow.
I think the book is still in print and is well worth searching out.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher

Who do I report to?

I wouldn't say that my class loves the postmodern/wooish stuff. If anything, a lot of them seem to feel incredulous. I know one fellow student who certainly is.

And yes, AP = Advanced Placement here.

Report to school board or school administration. People have a direct interest in what is being taught in the classroom. There are certainly enough Fundie busy-bodies sticking their noses into classrooms and always raising hell about something or another. It'd be even better if a parent (read: taxpayer) was to do so.

It's not unlike the teacher who tried to claim he was fired for wizardry but who was actually dismissed because he deviated from lesson plans and his JOB. Your history teacher is supposed to teach history. Somehow linking up a pseudo pscientist like Sheldrake and World History seems to be a stretch. I'd far rather a history teacher taught Critical Thinking Skills if they had a little time left over at the end of term.

ETA: And good for your classmates, then. When I was in a uni class in Montreal one of the Anthropology teachers was a complete communal hippy and tried to spend spare time converting the class to pyramid power and various other Occult Light stuff. They ate it up! I guess your generations got more on the ball, and like I said, .... Then Good For YOu Guys!

[Brandon Pilcher]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Report to school board or school administration. People have a direct interest in what is being taught in the classroom. There are certainly enough Fundie busy-bodies sticking their noses into classrooms and always raising hell about something or another. It'd be even better if a parent (read: taxpayer) was to do so.

It's not unlike the teacher who tried to claim he was fired for wizardry but who was actually dismissed because he deviated from lesson plans and his JOB. Your history teacher is supposed to teach history. Somehow linking up a pseudo pscientist like Sheldrake and World History seems to be a stretch. I'd far rather a history teacher taught Critical Thinking Skills if they had a little time left over at the end of term.

ETA: And good for your classmates, then. When I was in a uni class in Montreal one of the Anthropology teachers was a complete communal hippy and tried to spend spare time converting the class to pyramid power and various other Occult Light stuff. They ate it up! I guess your generations got more on the ball, and like I said, .... Then Good For YOu Guys!

I sent an e-mail to the principal. I don't want to get my teacher fired like that other guy, though---I just want them to talk.

In fairness to my history teacher, he is very far from being the most...uh..."wooish" person here at my school. My 8th grade science teacher was tons worse; she would preach Christian stuff almost every class and she had an entire bookcase stuffed with the Left Behind series and creationist tomes. Needless to say, evolution was never explored in that class, which is a pity, since I have found it's one of the most fun subjects that can be taught in a science class. Thankfully, all my science teachers after her have been wonderful; my 10th grade bio teacher even gave a lecture on why he refused to teach ID despite being a personal Christian.

ETA: BTW, this happens to be in Hong Kong. Other than some members of the faculty here at school, I haven't noticed much of a fundy problem here. Either there is a problem that I simply haven't detected yet, or the local Confucian and Taoist religions don't inspire as much fervor and anti-science fanaticism as the Abrahamic faiths. We're also a private school, so presumably my parents don't have to support it with their tax dollars.

[Cuddles]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

I'm not a physicist, but I can tell you it's because in order to observe the particle we have to do something to it that changes its behavior. We're not able yet* to observe them without altering some property of them. As I understand it, this is the source of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

*I don't know if the situation can change or not.

As Gate2501 says, it's not just that observing alters properties, the particles simply don't have an absolute value for certain pairs of properties, position and momentum being the best known. No matter how clever you try to make your measurements, it will never be possible to know both position and momentum above a certain precision at the same time.

Of course, as with all science, the situation can always change if it turns out that current theory isn't correct, but as far as we understand at the moment, there are some things that really are governed by probability.

I certainly agree that this teacher should be reported. No matter what your opinion of this nonsense, the fact is that it is nothing to do with the class he's supposed to be teaching.

[Soapy Sam]

I disagree- reread the OP-
At my high school, I'm enrolled in an AP World History class. We've finished both our textbook and our exams, so my teacher decided to shift the class's focus to postmodernism and how our perception of reality is changing.
The guy is teaching modern history, right up to date. The world IS full of woo nonsense.

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher

2) There is a guy named Sheldrake who thinks that dogs have a strong enough sense of intuition to predict what their owners will do. My teacher tells me Sheldrake's studies have been replicated.

Your teacher is 100% right, he does believe that, and his studies have been replicated. His findings, however, have not. And there are some interesting discrepancies in his published data between sources. His paper says one thing and his book says another.

http://www.richardwiseman.com/Jaytee.html
http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=849

[aggle-rithm]

Originally Posted by AgeGap

I seem to remember it was about light being diffracted by two parallel slits and causing an interference pattern. As the light approaches a state where only one photon is emitted at a time the interference pattern will still be registered.
A single photon of light going through both slits at once. Wow.
When the experimenters tried to find the slit the photon went through the diffraction pattern no longer appeared. The photons went through only one slit. Double wow.

The important thing to remember is that these weird effects only occur at the subatomic level. In the macroscopic world we all know and love, the effects cancel each other out; and the net result is that everything we observe follows the normal laws of cause and effect. That's what the woos fail to understand about quantum mechanics.

[aggle-rithm]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

though you might want to think twice about it if you want to be popular

I still remember a nerdy student in my high school chemistry class who was shouted down by the rest of the class when he disagreed with the teacher who said that a negative exponent meant the number was less than zero. People hate a know-it-all.

(The teacher realized her mistake after a few minutes, but the impression had been made.)

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

Don't go that route.
You disagree with what he's telling you, then say so.
Say it politely, firmly and explain your rasoning.
If he's a decent teacher, he'll hear you out and argue back.
Could be this is a learning opportunity for everyone.

If you are going on to college, bear in mind that you will be expected to think for yourself, not to passively absorb what you are told there. You have a chance to practise. Get in there.
ETA- A useful tactic is toi ask him to explain IN DETAIL what he means. This is damn hard with woo reasoning and the person usually ends in a muddle, which is when you go in for the kill.

I wish my teachers had given me the chance. The buggers were always right.

And, if you pass the AP test, there's not much playing with grades that the teacher can do. If you do not pass it though.....

[sophia8]

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

The important thing to remember is that these weird effects only occur at the subatomic level. In the macroscopic world we all know and love, the effects cancel each other out; and the net result is that everything we observe follows the normal laws of cause and effect. That's what the woos fail to understand about quantum mechanics.

Yup - I've had "But quantum mechanics proves it!" quoted at me to about everything from ghosts to reincarnation. But ask them to explain how QM proves it and watch their eyes glaze over......

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher

I sent an e-mail to the principal. I don't want to get my teacher fired like that other guy, though---I just want them to talk.

In fairness to my history teacher, he is very far from being the most...uh..."wooish" person here at my school. My 8th grade science teacher was tons worse; she would preach Christian stuff almost every class and she had an entire bookcase stuffed with the Left Behind series and creationist tomes. Needless to say, evolution was never explored in that class, which is a pity, since I have found it's one of the most fun subjects that can be taught in a science class. Thankfully, all my science teachers after her have been wonderful; my 10th grade bio teacher even gave a lecture on why he refused to teach ID despite being a personal Christian.

ETA: BTW, this happens to be in Hong Kong. Other than some members of the faculty here at school, I haven't noticed much of a fundy problem here. Either there is a problem that I simply haven't detected yet, or the local Confucian and Taoist religions don't inspire as much fervor and anti-science fanaticism as the Abrahamic faiths. We're also a private school, so presumably my parents don't have to support it with their tax dollars.

Bolded part....

We're taking over the world! Chris Gallaga(sic), RabbiSatan(another young one - he's about 20, I believe), yourself, me.... 4 down and 7,999,996 to go! We'll run this place, soon!

Back on topic. Nope, although you get the born-again Filippinas praising the lord down in Central on Sundays (while their naughty sisters are drinking it up in the discos at two in the afternoon), there aren't a whole lot of fundies here. I do have my pet Jehovah's Witness at work, though (I'm the envy of all the guys in the States, 'cuz even if they had one, they couldn't trot her out and play with her without getting fired for PC issues).

I wouldn't say I've encountered a lot of woo-ish teachers here. (Other than the native Chinese superstitions that you get in a lot of the public schools.)

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by AgeGap

In Search of Schrödinger's Cat by John Gribbin is a book I read almost twenty years ago. This book explains about how an observer can alter an experiments outcome.
I seem to remember it was about light being diffracted by two parallel slits and causing an interference pattern. As the light approaches a state where only one photon is emitted at a time the interference pattern will still be registered.
A single photon of light going through both slits at once. Wow.
When the experimenters tried to find the slit the photon went through the diffraction pattern no longer appeared. The photons went through only one slit. Double wow.
I think the book is still in print and is well worth searching out.

I myself have a copy somewhere. My friend gave it to me for Christmas in 1997 after a horrible, horrible chemistry class (for me, at least, but that's another tale). Apparently there was something going on in the class with the Schroedinger Wave Equation. I don't remember.

Now, I can do basic general chem, however.

Originally Posted by Cuddles

As Gate2501 says, it's not just that observing alters properties, the particles simply don't have an absolute value for certain pairs of properties, position and momentum being the best known. No matter how clever you try to make your measurements, it will never be possible to know both position and momentum above a certain precision at the same time.

Of course, as with all science, the situation can always change if it turns out that current theory isn't correct, but as far as we understand at the moment, there are some things that really are governed by probability.

I certainly agree that this teacher should be reported. No matter what your opinion of this nonsense, the fact is that it is nothing to do with the class he's supposed to be teaching.

W00t! Thank you! I thought it was something like that.

I don't think the teacher should be reported, but the teacher should at least be challenged in class and if things look potentially retaliatory, go to the principal.

[godless dave]

Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher

He also asserted two things that I am very skeptical about:

1) Studies have confirmed that people's intentions and consciousness can affect the outcomes of random number generators;

You were right to be skeptical. That's a flat-out lie.

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by godless dave

You were right to be skeptical. That's a flat-out lie.

You know, that makes me wonder...

One-time-pads, used correctly, are unbreakable. This requires a sufficiently random key, if I remember the beginning of this quarter correctly. If we can influence random number generators, shouldn't we be able to use this to break the one-time-pad by concentrating on the chosen key generator?

Likewise, when I ask Maple for a random 100 digit number to then get the next prime when I do RSA for homework, shouldn't, "Eve," be able to break it by concentrating on Maple and affecting what it gives me?

And when I pick primes to do the discrete logs too.

...

Yeah, shouldn't that totally cock-up cryptography, asks the student taking her first cryptography class.

[Soapy Sam]

Are there dead bodies and spider webs in it?

[Complexity]

Report the bastard.

[AmyWilson]

Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher

My teacher thinks that we don't perceive how "connected" we and life on earth are with the rest of the cosmos

Why not? You accept evolution. God forbid your teacher might believe in things beyond both time and the material world.

[Cuddles]

Originally Posted by LostAngeles

You know, that makes me wonder...

One-time-pads, used correctly, are unbreakable. This requires a sufficiently random key, if I remember the beginning of this quarter correctly. If we can influence random number generators, shouldn't we be able to use this to break the one-time-pad by concentrating on the chosen key generator?

Likewise, when I ask Maple for a random 100 digit number to then get the next prime when I do RSA for homework, shouldn't, "Eve," be able to break it by concentrating on Maple and affecting what it gives me?

And when I pick primes to do the discrete logs too.

...

Yeah, shouldn't that totally cock-up cryptography, asks the student taking her first cryptography class.

The problem with the claims of affecting random number generators is that the effect they claim is so small. If you can get 1% of the numbers to be non-random, the other 99% is still random, so a message would still be unbreakable. The other problem is that they claim that the effect is on the generator while it's doing the generating. Unless you know exactly where and when the pad is generated, you won't be able to anything about it at all.

This really highlights the big problem with these claims and studies - they're simply looking for psychics of the gaps. It's exactly the same as the god of the gaps, where things gods used to be invoked to explain have now been explained without gods, so the concept of god shrinks to a substanceless, powerless "We can't explain this little bit here yet, so it must be god.". No-one has ever claimed to have such an ability, no-one has ever seen evidence of such an ability and no-one has ever even had the chance to observe the effects. The only reason they are even looking here is because there is nowhere else left. They believe psychic powers exist, but every single power that has been claimed has failed miserably when tested. All that is left is looking for an effect so small that no-one would ever notice it, or care if they did. It's all rather sad really.

[aggle-rithm]

Originally Posted by AmyWilson

Why not? You accept evolution. God forbid your teacher might believe in things beyond both time and the material world.

He can believe he's a spotted snarklepuss for all I care. He just has an obligation to teach his students ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE rather than his own fantasies, even if others share them.

[aggle-rithm]

Originally Posted by Brandon Pilcher

2) There is a guy named Sheldrake who thinks that dogs have a strong enough sense of intuition to predict what their owners will do. My teacher tells me Sheldrake's studies have been replicated.

It's really funny that people are so self-centered that they can't imagine other species having a different perception of their environment than we do. If WE can't hear it, see it, or smell it, then the only possible way it could be detected by ANY species of animal is by MAGIC POWERS.

It never occurs to them that other species may be able to hear, see, or smell things that we can't.

Throw in a little confirmation bias and a dash of poor experimental design, and you have MIND READING DOGS!

(Temple Grandin has written some good stuff on some of these experiments and has more rational explanations for the results.)

[fls]

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

(Temple Grandin has written some good stuff on some of these experiments and has more rational explanations for the results.)

Where would I find this?

Linda

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by fls

Where would I find this?

Linda

Try this for a start.

[Jon.]

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

I still remember a nerdy student in my high school chemistry class who was shouted down by the rest of the class when he disagreed with the teacher who said that a negative exponent meant the number was less than zero. People hate a know-it-all.

(The teacher realized her mistake after a few minutes, but the impression had been made.)

I was the nerdy student in my Grade 11 chemistry class who contradicted the teacher when she said that the litre was a defined, rather than a derived, SI unit. She was not too bright, and my dad has a PhD. in chemistry.

[LostAngeles]

Originally Posted by Cuddles

The problem with the claims of affecting random number generators is that the effect they claim is so small. If you can get 1% of the numbers to be non-random, the other 99% is still random, so a message would still be unbreakable. The other problem is that they claim that the effect is on the generator while it's doing the generating. Unless you know exactly where and when the pad is generated, you won't be able to anything about it at all.

This really highlights the big problem with these claims and studies - they're simply looking for psychics of the gaps. It's exactly the same as the god of the gaps, where things gods used to be invoked to explain have now been explained without gods, so the concept of god shrinks to a substanceless, powerless "We can't explain this little bit here yet, so it must be god.". No-one has ever claimed to have such an ability, no-one has ever seen evidence of such an ability and no-one has ever even had the chance to observe the effects. The only reason they are even looking here is because there is nowhere else left. They believe psychic powers exist, but every single power that has been claimed has failed miserably when tested. All that is left is looking for an effect so small that no-one would ever notice it, or care if they did. It's all rather sad really.

So in short, once again, the psychics have this awesome power, yet it's absolutely useless.

Too bad because it'd be nice to test them by giving them just the encryption exponent and then asking them to break RSA. That'd be more than a million-dollars worthy.

[Autolite]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Well, Brandon....

First, I commend you for being astute enough to catch the teacher at this. Second, though you might want to think twice about it if you want to be popular, since I'm sure the class just loves this little side trip into fantasyland...... But, assuming you don't want to call him/her down in class, then at minimum, the teacher should be reported. Post-Modernism has no real place in a high school World History class (I assume AP = Advanced Placement). It's philosophy, at best... (and smarmy woo, at worst).

I see it differently Brandon. I understand your concern but personally I wouldn't report the teacher. You're talking about just one batty teacher in one class that (I presume) you will likely have endure for only one school year. I'd keep a low profile, get good grades and fuggetaboutit. I know it doesn't seem like it now, but when you get older you'll realize that your high school years were just an infinitesimal blip in your life...