[Split]Another WTC7 thread: CD, richter scale, Sadam... Split from: Hoffman v Mackey

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 02:46 PM

I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down.

SpitfireIX · 20th May 2008, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down.

No, it wasn't "hit by an airplane." It was, however, struck by large pieces of falling debris from a collapsing 110-story skyscraper.

jaydeehess · 20th May 2008, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down.

Actually there are several videos of WTC 7 collapsing. It is your opinion that characterizes it as a demolition.

No plane going 500 mph hit that 47 storey building. Instead pieces of a 110 storey building going 100 mph hit that building. Perhaps you are familiar with the NIST report appendix 7 which is the preliminary report on that structure. If so then you are also familiar with the fact that it was a building constructed over an existing building and thus was essentially a 40 storey structure built on stilts over a 7 storey structure. You would also be aware of the multiple fires that were not fought by the NYFD at all that day. You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1.

Is that what you were getting at?

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen.

I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Actually there are several videos of WTC 7 collapsing. It is your opinion that characterizes it as a demolition.

Not my opinion, I was told it was a controlled demolition and it looked like one to me. What's the big deal, I think bin Laden did it. I know he tried to blow up the Towers back in 1993.

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Because if [WTC 7] were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down.

Right. So you acknowledge that being struck by an aircraft can cause a building to collapse. Well, that’s progress, at least.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:09 PM

[quote=jaydeehess;3719353]You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1.

[quote]

I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8.

So, yes, I can see that the powerful ground shaking made WTC 7 swing side to side.

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Not my opinion, I was told it was a controlled demolition and it looked like one to me.

Yeah. Who needs The Enlightenment anyway?

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Par

I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo.

err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Par

I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo.

err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did.

Spud1k · 20th May 2008, 03:21 PM

[quote=Galileo;3719376][quote=jaydeehess;3719353]You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1.

Quote:

I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8.

So, yes, I can see that the powerful ground shaking made WTC 7 swing side to side.

Actually, the Richter scale is logarithmic, so 2.2 is actually about a 4 millionth of the power of a 8.8 earthquake, so I doubt that had anything to do with it.

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8.

False. The Richter scale is an exponential scale. A magnitude 8.8 earthquake is not four times more powerful than a magnitude 2.2. Rather, is it over a billion times more powerful. So, you were only out by a factor of a quarter of a billion.

R.Mackey · 20th May 2008, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1.

I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8.

So, yes, I can see that the powerful ground shaking made WTC 7 swing side to side.

The Richter Scale is logarithmic -- to base ten in displacement, and roughly base 32 in power. The 1906 San Francisco Earthquake (7.8?) was about 200 million times as powerful.

I think that error speaks for itself.

ETA: Ooh! 3x crit! That'll leave a mark.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by R.Mackey

The Richter Scale is logarithmic -- to base ten in displacement, and roughly base 32 in power. The 1906 San Francisco Earthquake (7.8?) was about 200 million times as powerful.

I think that error speaks for itself.

ETA: Ooh! 3x crit! That'll leave a mark.

I thought you said WTC 7 was creaking and swaying. Because the airplanes that hit the Twin Towers barely made them sway at all.

In fact, I couldn't see any swaying at all after the plane hit WTC 1 on TV. But you said the witnesses could see WTC 7 swinging side to side.

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen.

Originally Posted by Par

I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo.

Originally Posted by Galileo

err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did.

Well you actually said that you had seen a video of the controlled demolition of World Trade Center 7. In any event, are you saying that there are some videos in which World Trade Center 7 was brought down by a controlled demolition and some in which it was not?

jaydeehess · 20th May 2008, 03:34 PM

[quote=Galileo;3719376][quote=jaydeehess;3719353]You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1.

Quote:

I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8.

So, yes, I can see that the powerful ground shaking made WTC 7 swing side to side.

Wow such a display of ignorance of the richter scale is quite telling. here's a hint; its NOT a linear scaling.

A level 8 is not twice as powerful as a level 4. In fact a level 5 is ten times the power of a level 4.

Of course calculus was invented several centuries after your first run on this plane of existance so its obvious that you would be a bit backward

ETA: darn my slow typing skills. Everyone beat me to it

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Par

Well you actually said that you had seen a video of the controlled demolition of World Trade Center 7. In any event, are you saying that there are some videos in which World Trade Center 7 was brought down by a controlled demolition and some in which it was not?

I've only seen one video of the controlled demolition. It seems like a big job for terrorist groups, I'll bet Saddam Hussein was behind it. That's why we killed him, for killing our people.

jaydeehess · 20th May 2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did.

You saw a video that you were told illustrates that it was a demolition. I, and many others here are telling you that it wasn't. Now explain why you believe the person who said it was rather than those of us who say it wasn't.

THAT is basically the question you are begging!

R.Mackey · 20th May 2008, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I thought you said WTC 7 was creaking and swaying. Because the airplanes that hit the Twin Towers barely made them sway at all.

In fact, I couldn't see any swaying at all after the plane hit WTC 1 on TV. But you said the witnesses could see WTC 7 swinging side to side.

Looks like you too need to read NCSTAR1-5A Appendix K. The sway of the Towers after impact was both significant and measureable.

Spud1k · 20th May 2008, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by R.Mackey

The Richter Scale is logarithmic -- to base ten in displacement, and roughly base 32 in power. The 1906 San Francisco Earthquake (7.8?) was about 200 million times as powerful.

I think that error speaks for itself.

ETA: Ooh! 3x crit! That'll leave a mark.

Oops. I said base 10 in power, but you're right, it's actually displacement.

Point still stands though; it's not a factor of 4 by any means...

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I've only seen one video of the controlled demolition.

Whether or not the collapse of World Trade Center 7 was the result of a controlled demolition is a crux question at issue. Thus, in claiming that you have seen “one video of the controlled demolition” you are committing the fallacy of begging the question. Please refrain from doing so. (Further, please also refrain from devolving into babyishness.)

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

You saw a video that you were told illustrates that it was a demolition. I, and many others here are telling you that it wasn't. Now explain why you believe the person who said it was rather than those of us who say it wasn't.

THAT is basically the question you are begging!

you don't know what video I'm talking about, so how would you know that anything has been brought into question? From the people who have seen it, there hasn't been any question. We were speculating whether Osama or Saddam did it, or perhaps it was engineered for safety reasons. Everyone agrees the video I saw was a controlled demolition, the TV announcer even said it was. You must be talking about a different WTC building. Maybe WTC 8 or WTC 9, they weren't hit by planes either.

Spud1k · 20th May 2008, 03:47 PM

It's easy to say WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition, just as it is easy to say that I've seen someone who looked like Elvis. Doesn't mean the king is still alive.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Par

Whether or not the collapse of World Trade Center 7 was the result of a controlled demolition is a crux question at issue. Thus, in claiming that you have seen “one video of the controlled demolition” you are committing the fallacy of begging the question. Please refrain from doing so. (Further, please also refrain from devolving into babyishness.)

Ahem! I've been on a lot of conspiracy websites where they defend the terrorists, but I've never heard anything like this before. Are you saying Saddam Hussein DID NOT blow up the WTC to kill people? I really can't imagine anyone defending Saddam, he is evil. If Saddam did not do it, who did? Bin Laden? I did not think the evil nature of these terrorists could be brought into question.

Spud1k · 20th May 2008, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

you don't know what video I'm talking about, so how would you know that anything has been brought into question? From the people who have seen it, there hasn't been any question. We were speculating whether Osama or Saddam did it, or perhaps it was engineered for safety reasons. Everyone agrees the video I saw was a controlled demolition, the TV announcer even said it was. You must be talking about a different WTC building. Maybe WTC 8 or WTC 9, they weren't hit by planes either.

This'd be much simipler if we knew what you were talking about. Do you have a Youtube link or something?

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Spud1k

It's easy to say WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition, just as it is easy to say that I've seen someone who looked like Elvis. Doesn't mean the king is still alive.

I find it highly unlikely that the TV announcer would say it was a controlled demolition, it would look like a controlled demolition, everyone would agree it was a controlled demolition, and the announcer would say the terrorists did it because they hated our economic centers of capitalism, if it weren't a controlled demolition. I suppose if a hijacked plane hit it, but why would the TV man not say this?

You'd have to prove this wrong for me to believe you.

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Ahem! I've been on a lot of conspiracy websites where they defend the terrorists, but I've never heard anything like this before. Are you saying Saddam Hussein DID NOT blow up the WTC to kill people? I really can't imagine anyone defending Saddam, he is evil. If Saddam did not do it, who did? Bin Laden? I did not think the evil nature of these terrorists could be brought into question.

I see. You made a mistake (several, in fact) and rather than face up to it you’d rather start acting like a total moron. Well, all right.

Par · 20th May 2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I find it highly unlikely that the TV announcer would say it was a controlled demolition, it would look like a controlled demolition, everyone would agree it was a controlled demolition, and the announcer would say the terrorists did it because they hated our economic centers of capitalism, if it weren't a controlled demolition.

Well, possibly. But that didn’t happen. So it’s by the by, really.

SpitfireIX · 20th May 2008, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Ahem! I've been on a lot of conspiracy websites where they defend the terrorists, but I've never heard anything like this before. Are you saying Saddam Hussein DID NOT blow up the WTC to kill people? I really can't imagine anyone defending Saddam, he is evil. If Saddam did not do it, who did? Bin Laden? I did not think the evil nature of these terrorists could be brought into question.

Non sequitur, appeal to emotion, straw man. Congratulations on the hat trick.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Par

I see. You made a mistake (several, in fact) and rather than face up to it you’d rather start acting like a total moron. Well, all right.

did you know your logo is upside down?

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

Non sequitur, appeal to emotion, straw man. Congratulations on the hat trick.

No, I'm just saying if we could prove Saddam Hussein blew up the WTC, we could prove the conspiracy theorists wrong. Did the FBI ever find any evidence? I would seem so, since he was captured and executed for serious crimes.

The reason I think Saddam did it, is because we have not charged bin Laden with doing it.

Alt+F4 · 20th May 2008, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down.

You must mean a video of WTC7 being wired for demolition and someone pushing down the detonation plunger, right? Please provide a link to this video, thanks.

On September 11, 2001 St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church (next to the WTC) collapsed, yet no plane hit it. Are you suspicious?

Par · 20th May 2008, 04:22 PM

That reminds me of when MAGZ claimed that he saw footage of an Israeli octo-copter firing two Stars of David into World Trade Center 7.

applecorped · 20th May 2008, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

No, I'm just saying if we could prove Saddam Hussein blew up the WTC, we could prove the conspiracy theorists wrong. Did the FBI ever find any evidence? I would seem so, since he was captured and executed for serious crimes.

The reason I think Saddam did it, is because we have not charged bin Laden with doing it.

You might want to stop while you are way behind. It's only going to get rougher. Just a suggestion.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

You must mean a video of WTC7 being wired for demolition and someone pushing down the detonation plunger, right? Please provide a link to this video, thanks.

I don't have a video, I saw it on TV. The terrorists probably did not have a detonation plunger or wires. They must have snuck into the building in the morning and loaded it with bombs. I know that some of the bombs went off at 9 AM and almost killed Barry jennings and Mike Hess. Someone turned off the alarm system at 6:47 AM so the terrorists could hide the bombs without being caught. They probably paid off the security man with oil money to do it, and then killed him with the bombs. Saddam was an oil man.

Quote:

On September 11, 2001 St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church (next to the WTC) collapsed, yet no plane hit it. Are you suspicious?

Not really, the WTC probably fell on it. Poor church.

applecorped · 20th May 2008, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't have a video, I saw it on TV. The terrorists probably did not have a detonation plunger or wires. They must have snuck into the building in the morning and loaded it with bombs. I know that some of the bombs went off at 9 AM and almost killed Barry jennings and Mike Hess. Someone turned off the alarm system at 6:47 AM so the terrorists could hide the bombs without being caught. They probably paid off the security man with oil money to do it, and then killed him with the bombs. Saddam was an oil man.

Not really, the WTC probably fell on it. Poor church.

You are going to get your a** handed to you if you continue to post nonsense. I'm just trying to help. You picked the wrong site to promote this nonsense.

Par · 20th May 2008, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

You must mean a video of WTC7 being wired for demolition and someone pushing down the detonation plunger, right? Please provide a link to this video, thanks.

Originally Posted by Par

That reminds me of when MAGZ claimed that he saw footage of an Israeli octo-copter firing two Stars of David into World Trade Center 7.

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't have a video, I saw it on TV. The terrorists probably did not have a detonation plunger or wires. They must have snuck into the building in the morning and loaded it with bombs. I know that some of the bombs went off at 9 AM and almost killed Barry jennings and Mike Hess. Someone turned off the alarm system at 6:47 AM so the terrorists could hide the bombs without being caught. They probably paid off the security man with oil money to do it, and then killed him with the bombs. Saddam was an oil man.

Yeah. That basically is the same as MAGZ' theory. Except that in his, the explosions almost killed Rudolph Hess.

Galileo · 20th May 2008, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Par

Yeah. That basically is the same as MAGZ' theory. Except that in his, the explosions almost killed Rudolph Hess.

FYI

Rudy Hess was a Nazi. He was a bad man, but I don't think he did the WTC as he died in the 1980s. He could have set the bombs at that time, during the Reagan administration, but I doubt it.

I have heard of links between Bush family and the Nazis, but these are not confirmed.

Perhaps you confused Rudy Hess with Rudy Giuliani.

What we do know is that someone set the bombs, and I suspect the terrorists. Was the 9/11 Commission able to pin this on them?

beachnut · 20th May 2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down.

Sorry, you are wrong and have no evidence. But you will post lot of false information and then disappear again. You have no evidence.

No bombs, your fantasy was dead over 6 years ago.

slyjoe · 20th May 2008, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

You are going to get your a** handed to you if you continue to post nonsense. I'm just trying to help. You picked the wrong site to promote this nonsense.

I see you joined in Mar 2008. Gallileo has been here before. Gallileo will continue to get his a** handed to him; I think he enjoys it. For stunning nonsense, search for some of his earlier posts, if you can bear the odd mix of mental illness and humor.

20th May 2008, 02:46 PM	#1
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	[Split]Another WTC7 thread: CD, richter scale, Sadam... Split from: Hoffman v Mackey I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down.
	Last edited by Galileo; 20th May 2008 at 02:47 PM.

20th May 2008, 02:58 PM	#2
SpitfireIX Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA Posts: 2,830	Originally Posted by Galileo I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down. No, it wasn't "hit by an airplane." It was, however, struck by large pieces of falling debris from a collapsing 110-story skyscraper.
	__________________ Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

20th May 2008, 03:04 PM	#4
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo.
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 03:06 PM	#6
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo Because if [WTC 7] were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down. Right. So you acknowledge that being struck by an aircraft can cause a building to collapse. Well, that’s progress, at least.
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 03:09 PM	#8
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo Not my opinion, I was told it was a controlled demolition and it looked like one to me. Yeah. Who needs The Enlightenment anyway?
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 03:00 PM	#3
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,793	Originally Posted by Galileo I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down. Actually there are several videos of WTC 7 collapsing. It is your opinion that characterizes it as a demolition. No plane going 500 mph hit that 47 storey building. Instead pieces of a 110 storey building going 100 mph hit that building. Perhaps you are familiar with the NIST report appendix 7 which is the preliminary report on that structure. If so then you are also familiar with the fact that it was a building constructed over an existing building and thus was essentially a 40 storey structure built on stilts over a 7 storey structure. You would also be aware of the multiple fires that were not fought by the NYFD at all that day. You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1. Is that what you were getting at?

20th May 2008, 03:04 PM	#5
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by jaydeehess Actually there are several videos of WTC 7 collapsing. It is your opinion that characterizes it as a demolition. Not my opinion, I was told it was a controlled demolition and it looked like one to me. What's the big deal, I think bin Laden did it. I know he tried to blow up the Towers back in 1993.

20th May 2008, 03:15 PM	#9
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Par I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo. err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did.

20th May 2008, 03:19 PM	#10
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Par I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo. err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did.

20th May 2008, 03:21 PM	#11
Spud1k +5 Goatee of Pedantry Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 844	[quote=Galileo;3719376][quote=jaydeehess;3719353]You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1. Quote: I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8. So, yes, I can see that the powerful ground shaking made WTC 7 swing side to side. Actually, the Richter scale is logarithmic, so 2.2 is actually about a 4 millionth of the power of a 8.8 earthquake, so I doubt that had anything to do with it.

20th May 2008, 03:21 PM	#12
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8. False. The Richter scale is an exponential scale. A magnitude 8.8 earthquake is not four times more powerful than a magnitude 2.2. Rather, is it over a billion times more powerful. So, you were only out by a factor of a quarter of a billion.
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 03:21 PM	#13
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 7,857	Originally Posted by Galileo Originally Posted by jaydeehess You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1. I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8. So, yes, I can see that the powerful ground shaking made WTC 7 swing side to side. The Richter Scale is logarithmic -- to base ten in displacement, and roughly base 32 in power. The 1906 San Francisco Earthquake (7.8?) was about 200 million times as powerful. I think that error speaks for itself. ETA: Ooh! 3x crit! That'll leave a mark.
	__________________ "Nothing real can defeat us. Nothing unreal exists." -B. Banzai VT VENIANT OMNES Last edited by R.Mackey; 20th May 2008 at 03:26 PM.

20th May 2008, 03:30 PM	#14
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by R.Mackey The Richter Scale is logarithmic -- to base ten in displacement, and roughly base 32 in power. The 1906 San Francisco Earthquake (7.8?) was about 200 million times as powerful. I think that error speaks for itself. ETA: Ooh! 3x crit! That'll leave a mark. I thought you said WTC 7 was creaking and swaying. Because the airplanes that hit the Twin Towers barely made them sway at all. In fact, I couldn't see any swaying at all after the plane hit WTC 1 on TV. But you said the witnesses could see WTC 7 swinging side to side.

20th May 2008, 03:32 PM	#15
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Originally Posted by Par I think you might be begging the question there. Petitio principii, yo. Originally Posted by Galileo err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did. Well you actually said that you had seen a video of the controlled demolition of World Trade Center 7. In any event, are you saying that there are some videos in which World Trade Center 7 was brought down by a controlled demolition and some in which it was not?
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 03:34 PM	#16
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,793	[quote=Galileo;3719376][quote=jaydeehess;3719353]You would be aware that the FD knew the building was unstable, was creaking and swaying moments after the collapse of WTC 1. Quote: I read that the when the Twin Towers fell, they generated eartquakes on the scale of 2.2 on the Richter scale. That's only 1/4 of what the San Fran earthquake was, I think it was 8.8. So, yes, I can see that the powerful ground shaking made WTC 7 swing side to side. Wow such a display of ignorance of the richter scale is quite telling. here's a hint; its NOT a linear scaling. A level 8 is not twice as powerful as a level 4. In fact a level 5 is ten times the power of a level 4. Of course calculus was invented several centuries after your first run on this plane of existance so its obvious that you would be a bit backward ETA: darn my slow typing skills. Everyone beat me to it
	Last edited by jaydeehess; 20th May 2008 at 03:35 PM.

20th May 2008, 03:36 PM	#17
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Par Well you actually said that you had seen a video of the controlled demolition of World Trade Center 7. In any event, are you saying that there are some videos in which World Trade Center 7 was brought down by a controlled demolition and some in which it was not? I've only seen one video of the controlled demolition. It seems like a big job for terrorist groups, I'll bet Saddam Hussein was behind it. That's why we killed him, for killing our people.

20th May 2008, 03:38 PM	#18
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,793	Originally Posted by Galileo err, I wasn't begging any question, I was just saying I saw a video of a controlled demolition. Maybe you saw a different video than I did. You saw a video that you were told illustrates that it was a demolition. I, and many others here are telling you that it wasn't. Now explain why you believe the person who said it was rather than those of us who say it wasn't. THAT is basically the question you are begging!

20th May 2008, 03:42 PM	#19
R.Mackey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The armpit of L.A. Posts: 7,857	Originally Posted by Galileo I thought you said WTC 7 was creaking and swaying. Because the airplanes that hit the Twin Towers barely made them sway at all. In fact, I couldn't see any swaying at all after the plane hit WTC 1 on TV. But you said the witnesses could see WTC 7 swinging side to side. Looks like you too need to read NCSTAR1-5A Appendix K. The sway of the Towers after impact was both significant and measureable.
	__________________ "Nothing real can defeat us. Nothing unreal exists." -B. Banzai VT VENIANT OMNES

20th May 2008, 03:43 PM	#21
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo I've only seen one video of the controlled demolition. Whether or not the collapse of World Trade Center 7 was the result of a controlled demolition is a crux question at issue. Thus, in claiming that you have seen “one video of the controlled demolition” you are committing the fallacy of begging the question. Please refrain from doing so. (Further, please also refrain from devolving into babyishness.)
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 03:43 PM	#22
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by jaydeehess You saw a video that you were told illustrates that it was a demolition. I, and many others here are telling you that it wasn't. Now explain why you believe the person who said it was rather than those of us who say it wasn't. THAT is basically the question you are begging! you don't know what video I'm talking about, so how would you know that anything has been brought into question? From the people who have seen it, there hasn't been any question. We were speculating whether Osama or Saddam did it, or perhaps it was engineered for safety reasons. Everyone agrees the video I saw was a controlled demolition, the TV announcer even said it was. You must be talking about a different WTC building. Maybe WTC 8 or WTC 9, they weren't hit by planes either.

20th May 2008, 03:47 PM	#23
Spud1k +5 Goatee of Pedantry Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 844	It's easy to say WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition, just as it is easy to say that I've seen someone who looked like Elvis. Doesn't mean the king is still alive.

20th May 2008, 03:48 PM	#24
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Par Whether or not the collapse of World Trade Center 7 was the result of a controlled demolition is a crux question at issue. Thus, in claiming that you have seen “one video of the controlled demolition” you are committing the fallacy of begging the question. Please refrain from doing so. (Further, please also refrain from devolving into babyishness.) Ahem! I've been on a lot of conspiracy websites where they defend the terrorists, but I've never heard anything like this before. Are you saying Saddam Hussein DID NOT blow up the WTC to kill people? I really can't imagine anyone defending Saddam, he is evil. If Saddam did not do it, who did? Bin Laden? I did not think the evil nature of these terrorists could be brought into question.

20th May 2008, 03:49 PM	#25
Spud1k +5 Goatee of Pedantry Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 844	Originally Posted by Galileo you don't know what video I'm talking about, so how would you know that anything has been brought into question? From the people who have seen it, there hasn't been any question. We were speculating whether Osama or Saddam did it, or perhaps it was engineered for safety reasons. Everyone agrees the video I saw was a controlled demolition, the TV announcer even said it was. You must be talking about a different WTC building. Maybe WTC 8 or WTC 9, they weren't hit by planes either. This'd be much simipler if we knew what you were talking about. Do you have a Youtube link or something?

20th May 2008, 03:54 PM	#26
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Spud1k It's easy to say WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition, just as it is easy to say that I've seen someone who looked like Elvis. Doesn't mean the king is still alive. I find it highly unlikely that the TV announcer would say it was a controlled demolition, it would look like a controlled demolition, everyone would agree it was a controlled demolition, and the announcer would say the terrorists did it because they hated our economic centers of capitalism, if it weren't a controlled demolition. I suppose if a hijacked plane hit it, but why would the TV man not say this? You'd have to prove this wrong for me to believe you.

20th May 2008, 03:54 PM	#27
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo Ahem! I've been on a lot of conspiracy websites where they defend the terrorists, but I've never heard anything like this before. Are you saying Saddam Hussein DID NOT blow up the WTC to kill people? I really can't imagine anyone defending Saddam, he is evil. If Saddam did not do it, who did? Bin Laden? I did not think the evil nature of these terrorists could be brought into question. I see. You made a mistake (several, in fact) and rather than face up to it you’d rather start acting like a total moron. Well, all right.
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 03:56 PM	#28
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Galileo I find it highly unlikely that the TV announcer would say it was a controlled demolition, it would look like a controlled demolition, everyone would agree it was a controlled demolition, and the announcer would say the terrorists did it because they hated our economic centers of capitalism, if it weren't a controlled demolition. Well, possibly. But that didn’t happen. So it’s by the by, really.
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 04:01 PM	#29
SpitfireIX Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA Posts: 2,830	Originally Posted by Galileo Ahem! I've been on a lot of conspiracy websites where they defend the terrorists, but I've never heard anything like this before. Are you saying Saddam Hussein DID NOT blow up the WTC to kill people? I really can't imagine anyone defending Saddam, he is evil. If Saddam did not do it, who did? Bin Laden? I did not think the evil nature of these terrorists could be brought into question. Non sequitur, appeal to emotion, straw man. Congratulations on the hat trick.
	__________________ Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

20th May 2008, 04:04 PM	#30
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Par I see. You made a mistake (several, in fact) and rather than face up to it you’d rather start acting like a total moron. Well, all right. did you know your logo is upside down?

20th May 2008, 04:07 PM	#31
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by SpitfireIX Non sequitur, appeal to emotion, straw man. Congratulations on the hat trick. No, I'm just saying if we could prove Saddam Hussein blew up the WTC, we could prove the conspiracy theorists wrong. Did the FBI ever find any evidence? I would seem so, since he was captured and executed for serious crimes. The reason I think Saddam did it, is because we have not charged bin Laden with doing it.

20th May 2008, 04:10 PM	#32
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 9,768	Originally Posted by Galileo I don't know about WTC 1 & 2, but there's a video of the controlled demolition of WTC 7 that I've seen. Have you guys on this thread heard of WTC 7? I've been told that it was not hit by an airplane, can anyone confirm this? Because if it were hit by an airplane, that might explain why it fell down. You must mean a video of WTC7 being wired for demolition and someone pushing down the detonation plunger, right? Please provide a link to this video, thanks. On September 11, 2001 St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church (next to the WTC) collapsed, yet no plane hit it. Are you suspicious?
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky

20th May 2008, 04:22 PM	#33
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	That reminds me of when MAGZ claimed that he saw footage of an Israeli octo-copter firing two Stars of David into World Trade Center 7.
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th May 2008, 04:24 PM	#34
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,624	Originally Posted by Galileo No, I'm just saying if we could prove Saddam Hussein blew up the WTC, we could prove the conspiracy theorists wrong. Did the FBI ever find any evidence? I would seem so, since he was captured and executed for serious crimes. The reason I think Saddam did it, is because we have not charged bin Laden with doing it. You might want to stop while you are way behind. It's only going to get rougher. Just a suggestion.

20th May 2008, 04:27 PM	#35
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,368	Originally Posted by Alt+F4 You must mean a video of WTC7 being wired for demolition and someone pushing down the detonation plunger, right? Please provide a link to this video, thanks. I don't have a video, I saw it on TV. The terrorists probably did not have a detonation plunger or wires. They must have snuck into the building in the morning and loaded it with bombs. I know that some of the bombs went off at 9 AM and almost killed Barry jennings and Mike Hess. Someone turned off the alarm system at 6:47 AM so the terrorists could hide the bombs without being caught. They probably paid off the security man with oil money to do it, and then killed him with the bombs. Saddam was an oil man. Quote: On September 11, 2001 St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church (next to the WTC) collapsed, yet no plane hit it. Are you suspicious? Not really, the WTC probably fell on it. Poor church.

20th May 2008, 04:28 PM	#36
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,624	Originally Posted by Galileo I don't have a video, I saw it on TV. The terrorists probably did not have a detonation plunger or wires. They must have snuck into the building in the morning and loaded it with bombs. I know that some of the bombs went off at 9 AM and almost killed Barry jennings and Mike Hess. Someone turned off the alarm system at 6:47 AM so the terrorists could hide the bombs without being caught. They probably paid off the security man with oil money to do it, and then killed him with the bombs. Saddam was an oil man. Not really, the WTC probably fell on it. Poor church. You are going to get your a** handed to you if you continue to post nonsense. I'm just trying to help. You picked the wrong site to promote this nonsense.

20th May 2008, 04:32 PM	#37
Par Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,769	Originally Posted by Alt+F4 You must mean a video of WTC7 being wired for demolition and someone pushing down the detonation plunger, right? Please provide a link to this video, thanks. Originally Posted by Par That reminds me of when MAGZ claimed that he saw footage of an Israeli octo-copter firing two Stars of David into World Trade Center 7. Originally Posted by Galileo I don't have a video, I saw it on TV. The terrorists probably did not have a detonation plunger or wires. They must have snuck into the building in the morning and loaded it with bombs. I know that some of the bombs went off at 9 AM and almost killed Barry jennings and Mike Hess. Someone turned off the alarm system at 6:47 AM so the terrorists could hide the bombs without being caught. They probably paid off the security man with oil money to do it, and then killed him with the bombs. Saddam was an oil man. Yeah. That basically is the same as MAGZ' theory. Except that in his, the explosions almost killed Rudolph Hess.
	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts) Last edited by Par; 20th May 2008 at 04:33 PM.