Randi reveals magic secret?

Silicon · 10th October 2003, 11:20 AM

In this week's Swift, Randi explains the magic trick secrets of Mystery Spots.

WHY?

Why is THAT fair game? Because it's an illusion that doesn't have to be performed by a magician?

It CERTAINLY was created by people who knew a thing or three about illusion, slight of hand, and fooling an audience.

Mystery spots are environmental magic tricks. A sort of "Magic trick as sculpture".

These folks aren't flim-flam artists. They're not taking people for their money as peddlers of a faith.

They're entertainers. Yes, they print silly science-babble in their brochure. That's no different than the way a magician surrounds himself with the trappings of the Mysterioso. Remember how Copperfield went into a trance and "slowed down his heart" to "walk through" the Great Wall of China? Is it open season on Copperfield?

Tell me, should we next debunk Invisible Irma the Ghost of the Magic Castle because it falsely claims an occult cause for what is merely a magic trick?

I remember as a child watching Randi debunk Uri Gellar's bending spoon trick. I didn't believe Randi. Why? Because he never told me HOW they were bending the spoons. He just said it was a trick that "all magicians knew."

Randi, why do you guard Gellar's secret, but you expose the secret of the magicians who create and sustain mystery spots, a truly historical American roadside entertainment and popular illusion?

MoeFaux · 10th October 2003, 11:45 AM

How is this a trick? It's just elementary science, you learned about this stuff in grade school. And it doesn't take anything away from the charm of those roadside spots. They're still wonderful places and lots of fun.

Silicon · 10th October 2003, 12:36 PM

There are a lot of magic tricks that are elementary science.

Should I point out the secret to Copperfield's "Magic Sand" trick? The "trick" whose secret was plain to any child who owned the product "magic sand", sand that has been treated to be hydrophobic.

http://students.uwsp.edu/aburm855/magic_sand.htm

Have I just violated the magician's oath here, by posting that elementary science fact?

(PS, he doesn't perform this trick anymore, as it IS obvious to any child. Nor does he perform any tricks using the comic-strip copying abilities of Silly-Putty.)

If Randi wanted to do a spot on forced perspective and optical illusions, that would be a lesson in elementary science.

Instead he chose to reveal the secrets of an "outsider magic" illusion. He showed the photo of the place, and he called them by name. He then proceeded to reveal the secret.

Note, that unlike Copperfield's illusion above, these Mystery Spots are currently in operation, and their illusions are currently being performed for audiences daily.

Silicon · 10th October 2003, 12:38 PM

Oh, and Copperfield laced his performance of Magic Sand with the pseudeo-science and pseudo-mysticism of stories of the mysticism of ancient Egypt.

RANDI! You must debunk this Copperfield charlatan!

Bob Klase · 11th October 2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Copperfield laced his performance of Magic Sand with the pseudeo-science and pseudo-mysticism of stories of the mysticism of ancient Egypt.

Actually that was Doug Henning. Copperfield never did that trick (at least not on TV).

Silicon · 11th October 2003, 11:36 PM

Wow,

In my memory I can see Copperfield clear as day! Goes to show you how you re-remember things. I'll take your word it was Henning.

I never cared for Henning, even as a child.

Brian · 12th October 2003, 08:13 PM

Silicon, I hadn't thought of it myself, but you're absolutely right.
Harmless fun. If this information was provided by a person who didn't zealously protect some magic principals and casually expose others I wouldn't think anything of it.
I don't have a problem with demonstrating "psychic surgery" for instance, because these people use magic tricks to steal from sick people, but goofy roadside attractions are another matter all together. Otherwise, we should expose the nuts and bolts of all deceptions, no matter what the intention behind it.

Randi goofed.

Silicon · 12th October 2003, 10:18 PM

Exactly,

I'm all for a non-magician having a web-page for kids about optical illusions, or whatever.

Or even Randi telling people it's a simple optical illusion called the ponzo effect, and leaving it at that.

But to deconstruct the actual trick, for what is in essence a magic performance, I don't think was necessary.

Magicians have a code of honor about these things, and Randi ordinarily is no exception.

So there are two posibilities at work here, as far as I can see.

1. Randi doesn't consider them magicians because they are espousing woo-woo pseudoscience.

2. Randi doesn't consider them magicians because they aren't accorded the same respect as those in traditional magician social circles.

I say it's 2, because the woo-woo is in my view just patter for the act. These folks are selling tickets for five bucks a head. These folks aren't swamis, they're entertainers.

10th October 2003, 11:20 AM	#1
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	Randi reveals magic secret? In this week's Swift, Randi explains the magic trick secrets of Mystery Spots. WHY? Why is THAT fair game? Because it's an illusion that doesn't have to be performed by a magician? It CERTAINLY was created by people who knew a thing or three about illusion, slight of hand, and fooling an audience. Mystery spots are environmental magic tricks. A sort of "Magic trick as sculpture". These folks aren't flim-flam artists. They're not taking people for their money as peddlers of a faith. They're entertainers. Yes, they print silly science-babble in their brochure. That's no different than the way a magician surrounds himself with the trappings of the Mysterioso. Remember how Copperfield went into a trance and "slowed down his heart" to "walk through" the Great Wall of China? Is it open season on Copperfield? Tell me, should we next debunk Invisible Irma the Ghost of the Magic Castle because it falsely claims an occult cause for what is merely a magic trick? I remember as a child watching Randi debunk Uri Gellar's bending spoon trick. I didn't believe Randi. Why? Because he never told me HOW they were bending the spoons. He just said it was a trick that "all magicians knew." Randi, why do you guard Gellar's secret, but you expose the secret of the magicians who create and sustain mystery spots, a truly historical American roadside entertainment and popular illusion?
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

10th October 2003, 11:45 AM	#2
MoeFaux Suspicious Mind Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,475	How is this a trick? It's just elementary science, you learned about this stuff in grade school. And it doesn't take anything away from the charm of those roadside spots. They're still wonderful places and lots of fun.
MoeFaux Suspicious Mind Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,475	__________________ My PM's are FULL. If you need to message me...my box at mu.nu is okay, and email works. "I grew up and began to realize that there's a difference between what we wish and what is so. I started to need evidence beyond old legends, crackpot claims, and the assertions of "authorities." I also don't believe that my exercycle can talk. Why? Because it doesn't. - Teller

10th October 2003, 12:36 PM	#3
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	There are a lot of magic tricks that are elementary science. Should I point out the secret to Copperfield's "Magic Sand" trick? The "trick" whose secret was plain to any child who owned the product "magic sand", sand that has been treated to be hydrophobic. http://students.uwsp.edu/aburm855/magic_sand.htm Have I just violated the magician's oath here, by posting that elementary science fact? (PS, he doesn't perform this trick anymore, as it IS obvious to any child. Nor does he perform any tricks using the comic-strip copying abilities of Silly-Putty.) If Randi wanted to do a spot on forced perspective and optical illusions, that would be a lesson in elementary science. Instead he chose to reveal the secrets of an "outsider magic" illusion. He showed the photo of the place, and he called them by name. He then proceeded to reveal the secret. Note, that unlike Copperfield's illusion above, these Mystery Spots are currently in operation, and their illusions are currently being performed for audiences daily.
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

10th October 2003, 12:38 PM	#4
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	Oh, and Copperfield laced his performance of Magic Sand with the pseudeo-science and pseudo-mysticism of stories of the mysticism of ancient Egypt. RANDI! You must debunk this Copperfield charlatan!
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

11th October 2003, 11:36 PM	#6
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	Wow, In my memory I can see Copperfield clear as day! Goes to show you how you re-remember things. I'll take your word it was Henning. I never cared for Henning, even as a child.
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

11th October 2003, 09:44 PM	#5
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,389	Quote: Copperfield laced his performance of Magic Sand with the pseudeo-science and pseudo-mysticism of stories of the mysticism of ancient Egypt. Actually that was Doug Henning. Copperfield never did that trick (at least not on TV).

12th October 2003, 08:13 PM	#7
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	Silicon, I hadn't thought of it myself, but you're absolutely right. Harmless fun. If this information was provided by a person who didn't zealously protect some magic principals and casually expose others I wouldn't think anything of it. I don't have a problem with demonstrating "psychic surgery" for instance, because these people use magic tricks to steal from sick people, but goofy roadside attractions are another matter all together. Otherwise, we should expose the nuts and bolts of all deceptions, no matter what the intention behind it. Randi goofed.
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	__________________ O' beautiful, for spacious skies But now those skies are threatening They're beating plowshares into swords For this tired old man that we elected king Armchair warriors often fail And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales The lawyers clean up all details Since daddy had to lie -Don Henley

12th October 2003, 10:18 PM	#8
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	Exactly, I'm all for a non-magician having a web-page for kids about optical illusions, or whatever. Or even Randi telling people it's a simple optical illusion called the ponzo effect, and leaving it at that. But to deconstruct the actual trick, for what is in essence a magic performance, I don't think was necessary. Magicians have a code of honor about these things, and Randi ordinarily is no exception. So there are two posibilities at work here, as far as I can see. 1. Randi doesn't consider them magicians because they are espousing woo-woo pseudoscience. 2. Randi doesn't consider them magicians because they aren't accorded the same respect as those in traditional magician social circles. I say it's 2, because the woo-woo is in my view just patter for the act. These folks are selling tickets for five bucks a head. These folks aren't swamis, they're entertainers.
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644