The Reality of Dollars and Cents

OldSchool · 27th May 2008, 07:50 AM

This forum continues to discuss and discredit the most insignificant issues relating to 911 and the Iraq War. The methods for beginning the war in Iraq including how 911 was executed won't be known unless, by some act of God, all classified material relating to 911 were to be released. As the CIA's water-boarding tapes have been destroyed, so would 911 documents if they were going to be declassified.

The obvious measure of conspiracy is always found within the money trail. The only viable reason for a Government Conspiracy has and always will be profit. As Government Contracts grow beyond the 1 trillion mark its not hard to see how a few 1000 lives in New York City were worth the benefit to strategic individuals.

http://www.hermes-press.com/profiteering.htm

http://www.democracyrising.us/content/view/57/81/

http://www.counterpunch.org/pringle04122007.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle3309.htm

“The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated over and over.” — Adolph Hitler ...

funk de fino · 27th May 2008, 08:15 AM

KBR war profiteering was so bad that Halliburton dumped them due to poor performance and bad press.

How does that figure into your propaganda? Cheney the big bad boogie man could not even get contracts for his company that could outperform other divsions.

You should research stuff before posting the drivel you do.

T.A.M. · 27th May 2008, 08:19 AM

damn those stupid NWO guys. I told them to make some of the hijackers Iraqis, but would they listen....no.

TAM

OldSchool · 27th May 2008, 08:21 AM

You had nothing to say and obviously live inside the world of the Anti-Reality movement. I am releaved you represent the 1% of the world with their head in the sand.

mortimer · 27th May 2008, 08:22 AM

God does not have the authority to declassify government material.

T.A.M. · 27th May 2008, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by OldSchool

You had nothing to say and obviously live inside the world of the Anti-Reality movement. I am releaved you represent the 1% of the world with their head in the sand.

TAM

dudalb · 27th May 2008, 12:38 PM

I guess all the old time truthers are coming back for one last fling before "The Movement" is consigned to the dustbin of history...not that it ever had much of a life.

Bobert · 27th May 2008, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by OldSchool

As Government Contracts grow beyond the 1 trillion mark its not hard to see how a few 1000 lives in New York City were worth the benefit to strategic individuals

WOW you cant even get the number of killed right!
AND ONLY THE PSYCHOTIC TRUTH MOVEMENT believes that to get a government contract one would commit mass murder.
Is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that the truth movement has seen one too many "Enemy Of The State" type movies?

Bobert · 27th May 2008, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by OldSchool

This forum continues to discuss and discredit the ~~most insignificant issues relating to 911 and the Iraq War~~fantasies of the truth movement snake oil salesmen .

I fixed your quote for you.

beachnut · 27th May 2008, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by OldSchool

“The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated over and over.” — Adolph Hitler ...

Albert Einstein said, "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."

Is this the problem with the truth movement?... they quote the biggest losers of all time, where as rational people use the biggest brains of all time.

Albert sums up the problem with your ideas on 9/11. At least you have learned 2, to, too write better then i.

dudalb · 27th May 2008, 02:27 PM

Not to mention that remark might be be mythical. That it seems to be ascribed both to Hitler and to Joesph Gobbels certainly does not help it's reliability.

JimBenArm · 27th May 2008, 03:19 PM

The reality of dollars and cents? Takes one hundred cents to make a dollar.

Hope that helps, OldSchool!

Björn Toulouse · 27th May 2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by beachnut

....At least you have learned 2, to, too write better then i.

Hey, you're right. I forgot that he was the "to-too" guy from last year. Now he can never say he didn't learn anything from his visits to JREF.

1337m4n · 27th May 2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by OldSchool

You had nothing to say

That is because you had nothing to say. You just posted a bunch of links. I can post a bunch of links too. A third-grader can post a bunch of links.

Why don't you make this thread useful and tell us what specifically you would like to discuss?

jaydeehess · 27th May 2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

This forum continues to discuss and discredit the most insignificant issues relating to 911 and the Iraq War.

We are constantly told by one truther or another that one aspect or another of the events of 9/11/01 are THE most important. You are just one of many with your own pet topic, the CIT have their supposed evidence, Christopher 7 has WTC 7, the no-planers have their fantasies.

9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. Most people know this, even Scott MacCellan(sp?) GWB's former press secretary tells us so and that 9/11 was cynically USED as a propaganda tool by the administration.

Now you tell us that money was the motive. What other motive could there be for mass murder? Strident and fanatical religious and political idealism can also be a motive. It drove Hitler, it drove Stalin, it drove the Crusaders, all of whom carried out great atrocities. It has also driven quite a few people to plant bombs in aircraft or trains or buses or to hijack aircraft or ships and hold the crew and passengers hostage. In many cases some hostages have been cold bloodedly killed one at a time to force aquiesence to their demands.

You however focus soley on gov't conspiracy, so much so that you simply brush aside any other senario. Why are you so blinded by your own ideology?

Corsair 115 · 28th May 2008, 12:02 AM

Well, shoot, I thought this thread was going to be about the Amero.

Dr Adequate · 28th May 2008, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by OldSchool

This forum continues to discuss and discredit the most insignificant issues relating to 911 ...

... such as "who did it?"

zorro99 · 28th May 2008, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by OldSchool

As Government Contracts grow beyond the 1 trillion mark...

The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion).

Disbelief · 28th May 2008, 06:10 AM

OldSchool, how did certain companies get picked to profit? What about companies that have taken a beating? Look at GM, now in a dogfight to stay the largest automaker in the world and credited with keeping the US economy from sliding into recession after 9/11 by offering 0% financing. How did they get the short end of the stick? They made the vast majority of their profits by selling gas guzzlers, as did Ford and Chrysler. What purpose is served by hamstringing such large companies?

jaydeehess · 28th May 2008, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by zorro99

The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion).

Not that I don't believe you but could you cite a source. Perhaps OldSchool could do the same.

It would serve to establish one's credibility as far as their research ability goes.

funk de fino · 29th May 2008, 01:29 AM

Is this the truther who claimed the NWO/CIA/SS/FBI stole his research paper?

Gazpacho · 29th May 2008, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by zorro99

The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion).

This was a talking point politicians dishonestly came up with by adding up the entire projected revenue reduction from a tax break over CBO's ten-year planning period. And by golly it sure sounds impressive, doesn't it?

zorro99 · 29th May 2008, 07:23 AM

I stand corrected. For FY 2008 the discretionary spending budget came to $1.1 trillion.

Quote:

The FY 2008 Federal Budget proposes a decline in discretionary spending over the 5 year outlook, from $1.114 trillion in FY 2008 to $1.1039 trillion in FY 2012.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/fy2008...Discretion.htm

Still that can't all be in the form of government contracts with private enterprises.

SpitfireIX · 29th May 2008, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by zorro99

The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion).

Clarification:

It's more like $900 billion, and that's only discretionary spending and doesn't include war funding and some other off-budget items.

Total discretionary spending for 2008 is projected to be about $1.1 trillion. (See here.)

Your point is still well taken, however. According to FedSpending.org, for FY 2006, the last year for which complete data are available, spending for federal contracts amounted to $415 billion. Possibly OldSchool is including multi-year contracts, but that is not a useful number, IMO (as a former accountant with government and non-profit experience).

dudalb · 29th May 2008, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by funk de fino

Is this the truther who claimed the NWO/CIA/SS/FBI stole his research paper?

Yuppers.Same guy.

27th May 2008, 07:50 AM	#1
OldSchool Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 304	The Reality of Dollars and Cents This forum continues to discuss and discredit the most insignificant issues relating to 911 and the Iraq War. The methods for beginning the war in Iraq including how 911 was executed won't be known unless, by some act of God, all classified material relating to 911 were to be released. As the CIA's water-boarding tapes have been destroyed, so would 911 documents if they were going to be declassified. The obvious measure of conspiracy is always found within the money trail. The only viable reason for a Government Conspiracy has and always will be profit. As Government Contracts grow beyond the 1 trillion mark its not hard to see how a few 1000 lives in New York City were worth the benefit to strategic individuals. http://www.hermes-press.com/profiteering.htm http://www.democracyrising.us/content/view/57/81/ http://www.counterpunch.org/pringle04122007.html http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle3309.htm “The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated over and over.” — Adolph Hitler ...
	Last edited by OldSchool; 27th May 2008 at 07:51 AM.

27th May 2008, 08:15 AM	#2
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 10,790	KBR war profiteering was so bad that Halliburton dumped them due to poor performance and bad press. How does that figure into your propaganda? Cheney the big bad boogie man could not even get contracts for his company that could outperform other divsions. You should research stuff before posting the drivel you do.
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

27th May 2008, 08:22 AM	#5
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 3,476	God does not have the authority to declassify government material.
	__________________ "why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid

27th May 2008, 01:16 PM	#8
Bobert Government Loyalist Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kennesaw GA Posts: 4,146	Originally Posted by OldSchool As Government Contracts grow beyond the 1 trillion mark its not hard to see how a few 1000 lives in New York City were worth the benefit to strategic individuals WOW you cant even get the number of killed right! AND ONLY THE PSYCHOTIC TRUTH MOVEMENT believes that to get a government contract one would commit mass murder. Is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that the truth movement has seen one too many "Enemy Of The State" type movies?
	__________________ CIT CULT founder Ranke responding to where Flight 77 is"I'm not aware of any "theories" nor am I interested in theorizing about what method was used to murder them ." CIT CULT MEMEMBER ROUNDHEAD Suck on one weenie, you are a weenie sucker for life CIT CULT founder Aldo Marquis :You're going to regret. Don't forget we have your info too pal. Think about your kid and family Last edited by Bobert; 27th May 2008 at 01:20 PM.

27th May 2008, 01:29 PM	#9
Bobert Government Loyalist Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kennesaw GA Posts: 4,146	Originally Posted by OldSchool This forum continues to discuss and discredit the ~~most insignificant issues relating to 911 and the Iraq War~~fantasies of the truth movement snake oil salesmen . I fixed your quote for you.
	__________________ CIT CULT founder Ranke responding to where Flight 77 is"I'm not aware of any "theories" nor am I interested in theorizing about what method was used to murder them ." CIT CULT MEMEMBER ROUNDHEAD Suck on one weenie, you are a weenie sucker for life CIT CULT founder Aldo Marquis :You're going to regret. Don't forget we have your info too pal. Think about your kid and family

27th May 2008, 08:19 AM	#3
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	damn those stupid NWO guys. I told them to make some of the hijackers Iraqis, but would they listen....no. TAM

27th May 2008, 08:21 AM	#4
OldSchool Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 304	You had nothing to say and obviously live inside the world of the Anti-Reality movement. I am releaved you represent the 1% of the world with their head in the sand.

27th May 2008, 08:46 AM	#6
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	Originally Posted by OldSchool You had nothing to say and obviously live inside the world of the Anti-Reality movement. I am releaved you represent the 1% of the world with their head in the sand. TAM

27th May 2008, 12:38 PM	#7
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,821	I guess all the old time truthers are coming back for one last fling before "The Movement" is consigned to the dustbin of history...not that it ever had much of a life.

27th May 2008, 02:24 PM	#10
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,904	Originally Posted by OldSchool “The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated over and over.” — Adolph Hitler ... Albert Einstein said, "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." Is this the problem with the truth movement?... they quote the biggest losers of all time, where as rational people use the biggest brains of all time. Albert sums up the problem with your ideas on 9/11. At least you have learned 2, to, too write better then i.
	Last edited by beachnut; 27th May 2008 at 02:26 PM.

27th May 2008, 02:27 PM	#11
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,821	Not to mention that remark might be be mythical. That it seems to be ascribed both to Hitler and to Joesph Gobbels certainly does not help it's reliability.

27th May 2008, 03:19 PM	#12
JimBenArm Based on a true story! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 12,977	The reality of dollars and cents? Takes one hundred cents to make a dollar. Hope that helps, OldSchool!
	__________________ *"JimBenArm is right"* Hokulele Mom

27th May 2008, 06:41 PM	#13
Björn Toulouse Cavitus Rectum Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: miles from Nowhere Posts: 1,406	Originally Posted by beachnut ....At least you have learned 2, to, too write better then i. Hey, you're right. I forgot that he was the "to-too" guy from last year. Now he can never say he didn't learn anything from his visits to JREF.
	__________________ The most complete and happy victory is this: to compel one's enemy to give up his purpose, while suffering no harm oneself. Belisarius

27th May 2008, 08:01 PM	#14
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,499	Originally Posted by OldSchool You had nothing to say That is because you had nothing to say. You just posted a bunch of links. I can post a bunch of links too. A third-grader can post a bunch of links. Why don't you make this thread useful and tell us what specifically you would like to discuss?
	__________________ http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo

27th May 2008, 08:08 PM	#15
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	that old saw........ Quote: This forum continues to discuss and discredit the most insignificant issues relating to 911 and the Iraq War. We are constantly told by one truther or another that one aspect or another of the events of 9/11/01 are THE most important. You are just one of many with your own pet topic, the CIT have their supposed evidence, Christopher 7 has WTC 7, the no-planers have their fantasies. 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. Most people know this, even Scott MacCellan(sp?) GWB's former press secretary tells us so and that 9/11 was cynically USED as a propaganda tool by the administration. Now you tell us that money was the motive. What other motive could there be for mass murder? Strident and fanatical religious and political idealism can also be a motive. It drove Hitler, it drove Stalin, it drove the Crusaders, all of whom carried out great atrocities. It has also driven quite a few people to plant bombs in aircraft or trains or buses or to hijack aircraft or ships and hold the crew and passengers hostage. In many cases some hostages have been cold bloodedly killed one at a time to force aquiesence to their demands. You however focus soley on gov't conspiracy, so much so that you simply brush aside any other senario. Why are you so blinded by your own ideology?
	Last edited by jaydeehess; 27th May 2008 at 08:09 PM.

28th May 2008, 12:02 AM	#16
Corsair 115 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 8,572	Well, shoot, I thought this thread was going to be about the Amero.
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

28th May 2008, 01:14 AM	#17
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	Originally Posted by OldSchool This forum continues to discuss and discredit the most insignificant issues relating to 911 ... ... such as "who did it?"

28th May 2008, 01:31 AM	#18
zorro99 Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Africa Posts: 282	Originally Posted by OldSchool As Government Contracts grow beyond the 1 trillion mark... The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion).
	__________________ There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact.

28th May 2008, 06:10 AM	#19
Disbelief Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,272	OldSchool, how did certain companies get picked to profit? What about companies that have taken a beating? Look at GM, now in a dogfight to stay the largest automaker in the world and credited with keeping the US economy from sliding into recession after 9/11 by offering 0% financing. How did they get the short end of the stick? They made the vast majority of their profits by selling gas guzzlers, as did Ford and Chrysler. What purpose is served by hamstringing such large companies?
Disbelief Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,272	__________________ Zensmack (LastChild, Laughing Assassin, RazetheFlag, Wastrel, TruthbyDecree) - Working his way up the sock puppet chain, trying to overtake P'Doh. Or, are they the same? Quote me where I said conspiracists use evidence. - mchapman

28th May 2008, 03:32 PM	#20
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by zorro99 The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion). Not that I don't believe you but could you cite a source. Perhaps OldSchool could do the same. It would serve to establish one's credibility as far as their research ability goes.

29th May 2008, 01:29 AM	#21
funk de fino Dreaming of unicorns Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alba Posts: 10,790	Is this the truther who claimed the NWO/CIA/SS/FBI stole his research paper?
	__________________ Stundie - Avoided like the plaque, its a scottish turn of phrase. Christopher 7 - There is no need to contact them for conformation. That is just a denial tactic

29th May 2008, 01:47 AM	#22
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by zorro99 The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion). This was a talking point politicians dishonestly came up with by adding up the entire projected revenue reduction from a tax break over CBO's ten-year planning period. And by golly it sure sounds impressive, doesn't it?
	Last edited by Gazpacho; 29th May 2008 at 01:49 AM.

29th May 2008, 07:23 AM	#23
zorro99 Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Africa Posts: 282	I stand corrected. For FY 2008 the discretionary spending budget came to $1.1 trillion. Quote: The FY 2008 Federal Budget proposes a decline in discretionary spending over the 5 year outlook, from $1.114 trillion in FY 2008 to $1.1039 trillion in FY 2012. http://useconomy.about.com/od/fy2008...Discretion.htm Still that can't all be in the form of government contracts with private enterprises.
	__________________ There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact.

29th May 2008, 08:16 AM	#24
SpitfireIX Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA Posts: 2,830	Originally Posted by zorro99 The fiscal year 2008 budget for the entire federal government - not just the Defense Dept but the entire federal government - is less than that (about $800 billion). Clarification: It's more like $900 billion, and that's only discretionary spending and doesn't include war funding and some other off-budget items. Total discretionary spending for 2008 is projected to be about $1.1 trillion. (See here.) Your point is still well taken, however. According to FedSpending.org, for FY 2006, the last year for which complete data are available, spending for federal contracts amounted to $415 billion. Possibly OldSchool is including multi-year contracts, but that is not a useful number, IMO (as a former accountant with government and non-profit experience).
	__________________ Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

29th May 2008, 11:36 AM	#25
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,821	Originally Posted by funk de fino Is this the truther who claimed the NWO/CIA/SS/FBI stole his research paper? Yuppers.Same guy.