Anna Anderson's intestine switch

[Franziska]

I was wondering if any of you knew about the conspiracy theories about Anna Anderson's intestines being switched, and that the DNA results proving she wasn't Anastasia are false. Of course I don't believe this, and have even made my own website showing why she wasn't Anastasia, but the conspiracy theories by her supporters get worse all the time. Some are funny, some are so aggravating you want to bang your head against a brick wall. Does anyone else know about this and is it okay to tell about it as a subject here?

[ElMondoHummus]

Cool, something that isn't 9/11 related.

I don't know that much about the Anastasia/Romanov execution "survivor" stories, but I thought the skeletal remains of the Romanovs were found and Anastasia's identified. Am I wrong about that? I'll Google-vestigate after I get back from my mandatory workout (blech! ) and other errands, but I hope this small contribution contributes to a nice discussion.

Also: Welcome to the forum!

[Franziska]

Thanks! No, they were identified, they are dead and found. The conspiracy theories are that the Queen paid the scientists off not to admit Anderson was really Anastasia so her family wouldn't have to be embarrassed that they had rejected their Russian cousins' request for asylum in England in 1917, or something like that. They also accuse the Virginia hospital where Anderson had her operation of being in on the switch, and somehow the scientists too. Really there is no reason anyone would do this, and really, if she HAD been Anastasia who escaped that would have been more exciting! They still believe 'people for whom money is no object' have faked it all and that poor Anna was denied her birthright. This is very false.

I have a website that outlines the backstory and then I debunk their theories

http://freewebs.com/anna-anderson

It's got a lot of background information and refutes what the conspiracy theorists propose, and don't worry it's all free and I am not trying to sell anyone anything, it's just an interest of mine. Next I'll post some links to some of their wild theories. If anyone has any questions or comments please post!

[Brainache]

Do these nuts think that even if this woman was Anastasia that she could have just walked into a palace somewhere in Russia and started ordering people around? That she could somehow reclaim all the Tsar's power and possesions just by being related?

Reality doesn't mean much to these people does it?

[SDC]

Welcome, Franziska. I guess no one should be surprised that enthusiasts have cooked up another way to believe in the survival of a Romanov or two. Conspiracy theories take on lives of their own. Weren't there also pretenders to be Aleksei/ Alexis?

I blame "The Man in the Iron Mask." He started it.

[CptColumbo]

Originally Posted by Brainache

Do these nuts think that even if this woman was Anastasia that she could have just walked into a palace somewhere in Russia and started ordering people around? That she could somehow reclaim all the Tsar's power and possesions just by being related?

Reality doesn't mean much to these people does it?

IIRC there were assets outside of Russia that an heir could claim.

[Alareth]

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

Cool, something that isn't 9/11 related.

Everything is 9/11 related. If you wait long enough, there will be a loon along to explain the details of this particular connection.

[CptColumbo]

I have to admit that all I know about the case is what was in that "In Search of..." episode in the 70s, and the news when the bodies were found and the DNA tests came back.

[Alt+F4]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Anna Anderson's intestines being switched

Ouch, that must of hurt!

Before the DNA evidence was revealed my biggest beef with the entire Anna Anderson saga was this woman didn't even speak Russian!

Who do the conspiracy nuts suspect of the switcheroo, the hospital or the DNA lab? Did they happen to have Schanzkowska DNA just lying around?

Nice website!

[defaultdotxbe]

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

Cool, something that isn't 9/11 related.

I don't know that much about the Anastasia/Romanov execution "survivor" stories, but I thought the skeletal remains of the Romanovs were found and Anastasia's identified. Am I wrong about that? I'll Google-vestigate after I get back from my mandatory workout (blech! ) and other errands, but I hope this small contribution contributes to a nice discussion.

Also: Welcome to the forum!

IIRC they found the bones, and were able to identify the sex, and a very rough guess at the age, and i think they were able to identify that they were romanov (i recall seeing something about them using prince philips dna because hes a distant relative of the romanov) but i think there were 1 or 2 that could have been anatasia, but also could have been one of her sisters, so it was inconclusive in her case

[TjW]

Isn't this the way it's always been? No guts, no glory.

[Brainache]

Originally Posted by TjW

Isn't this the way it's always been? No guts, no glory.

You win! A vat of caviar and a solid gold statue of Rasputin for TjW!!!

[ktesibios]

"Anna Anderson's Intestine Switch" sounds like a quack weight-loss product seen in infomercials.

Or a good name for a rock band.

[twinstead]

Originally Posted by ktesibios

"Anna Anderson's Intestine Switch" sounds like a quack weight-loss product seen in infomercials.

Or a good name for a rock band.

No. "Anna Anderson's Intestine Switch" was the sequel to "Alice in Wonderland" that Lewis Carroll submitted but had rejected by the publisher.

[GregoryUrich]

The switch was faulty causing the o-ring to fail resulting in expulsion of debris at velocities approaching the speed of sound. Bazant has theorized that the upper part was rigid and Jones suspects thermite but only Dick Feynman knows the real answer.

[Lucy82]

Anastasia was never missing in the first place. When the bodies were originally found two were missing, thought to be Alexei and Maria. However these have also recently been found:

Missing Romanovs

It'd be naive to think this will stop the conspiraloons though.

[Coffee]

Originally Posted by GregoryUrich

The switch was faulty causing the o-ring to fail resulting in expulsion of debris at velocities approaching the speed of sound. Bazant has theorized that the upper part was rigid and Jones suspects thermite but only Dick Feynman knows the real answer.

Which switch? The one in the large intestine or the one in the small intestine? Could you clarify? Thanks.

[ElMondoHummus]

Originally Posted by GregoryUrich

The switch was faulty causing the o-ring to fail resulting in expulsion of debris at velocities approaching the speed of sound. Bazant has theorized that the upper part was rigid and Jones suspects thermite but only Dick Feynman knows the real answer.

Originally Posted by Coffee

Which switch? The one in the large intestine or the one in the small intestine? Could you clarify? Thanks.

Christ... if someone's intestines expelled debris at nearly the speed of sound, it's no wonder no one's ever found her.



Sound... found... Hey! I rhymeddedededed!...

[twinstead]

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

Christ... if someone's intestines expelled debris at nearly the speed of sound, it's no wonder no one's ever found her.

Dude. You've never seen me after a Jalepeno eating contest followed by a long night of beer drinking.

[Grizzly Bear]

Originally Posted by twinstead

Dude. You've never seen me after a Jalepeno eating contest followed by a long night of beer drinking.

LMFAO!!!!!!!
No, but I've seen myself and it wasn't pleasant...

[GregoryUrich]

Originally Posted by Coffee

Which switch? The one in the large intestine or the one in the small intestine? Could you clarify? Thanks.

The intestine switch. See NIST NCSTAR, Report 9, Section 7, Chapter 5-18, pg. 1076, Diagram 5-3. God, don't you know anything?

[GregoryUrich]

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

Christ... if someone's intestines expelled debris at nearly the speed of sound, it's no wonder no one's ever found her.



Sound... found... Hey! I rhymeddedededed!...

Actually, the reason they never found her is because she was seized by NSA and turned her over to a secret project studying new means of propulsion.

[ElMondoHummus]

Originally Posted by twinstead

Dude. You've never seen me after a Jalepeno eating contest followed by a long night of beer drinking.

Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear

LMFAO!!!!!!!
No, but I've seen myself and it wasn't pleasant...

[Comsat Angel]

Er, Franziska, just a pointer about spelling on your website. It's "The Amazing Randi", not " - Randy". Citing "Amazing Randy" may bring hits from people looking for, shall we say "exotic pictures" and the like.

And it's refreshing to see a conspiracy that's not 9/11 related (at least not yet!)

[Whiplash]

I keep reading this thread title as "Anna Anderson's Intestine Sandwhich".

Not sure why.

[Drs_Res]

Originally Posted by Whiplash

I keep reading this thread title as "Anna Anderson's Intestine Sandwhich".

Not sure why.

Are you hungry?

<start homer mode>
Mmmmmmm. Intestine sandwhich. {droool}
</Homer mode>

[Grizzly Bear]

Originally Posted by Drs_Res

Are you hungry?

<start homer mode>
Mmmmmmm. Intestine sandwhich. {droool}
</Homer mode>

[peguyjaures]

Intestine sandwich?
Well, actually it's a gourmet delicacy in Greece and Turkey.
Google "kokoreç"

Does this make the Anastasia affair a Turkish-Ottoman conspiracy? Hmmmm...

Well. Anastasia. Anatolia. Coincidence? You decide!

[kookbreaker]

I always wondered why the USSR was so shy about admitting they exectued the Romanov family? Cromwell wasn't shy about executing the King, and neither were the French Revolutionaries about Louis. Yet here the 'great revolution' against royalty and all that stuff is supershy about admitting they killed them when royalist forces were getting too close for comfort.

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by Alt+F4

Ouch, that must of hurt!

Before the DNA evidence was revealed my biggest beef with the entire Anna Anderson saga was this woman didn't even speak Russian!

Where on earth did you get that information? Already at Dalldorf, she went on record as speaking fluent Russian.

[timhau]

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

Cool, something that isn't 9/11 related.

They stored her real intestines in a secret vault in western side of the Pentagon.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by timhau

They stored her real intestines in a secret vault in western side of the Pentagon.

You mean the side that got nuked or deathrayed or hit by a popgun or whatever on 9/11?

[timhau]

Originally Posted by Chaos

You mean the side that got nuked or deathrayed or hit by a popgun or whatever on 9/11?

Yeah. By the Jews.

[ChatNoir]

What on earth do the putative intestine samples have to do with Anna Anderson's ability to speak Russian?

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by ChatNoir

What on earth do the putative intestine samples have to do with Anna Anderson's ability to speak Russian?

After the switch, she no longer had the guts to speak Russian.

[ChatNoir]

I'm afraid she was long dead before that.
Try again.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by ChatNoir

I'm afraid she was long dead before that.
Try again.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/humor

[timhau]

You know what they say... no guts, no glory.

[Franziska]

Actually there is no proof AA spoke Russian other than the word of mouth of a few supporters, and allegedly some insane asylum workers. Very possibly, they were mistaking Kashubian Polish for Russian, or lying to help her cause, and it never happened. Saying she spoke Russian early on actually hurts her case, because she didn't speak it later. This blows holes in the 'she was too traumatized by Ekaterinburg' theory of why she wouldn't use Russian. What, did she use it, and become delayed in her trauma later? AA was never proven to be able to speak, read or write it in front of the court or anyone else. One of the reasons she was rejected by some who saw her in the 20's was because of her lack of Russian. For example, Nicholas II's sister, one of Alexandra's friends, and Prince Yussoupov all found it strange that AA spoke exclusively in German, while the real Anastasia was fluent in Russian, nearly fluent in English,(she spoke it on a daily basis with her mother) and well versed in French, but had barely any German. Why would a Russian girl use German with other native Russian speakers? The real reason, of course, is that AA was not Anastasia, but actually Franziska Schanzkowska, who spoke German (and Kashoub Polish). Trauma?Then the word of mouth reports of her speaking it are contradictory to what occured later. The bottom line is, AA could not prove she spoke Russian and never wrote it. There is also evidence she knew no English before being coached before coming to America. French, a language Anastasia studied for years, was nonexistent in AA, other than, you guessed it, a few reports from supporters.

I could go on for hours on this subject, but right now, the main issue is the intestines don't even matter anymore since the two missing bodies have been found and identified. According to the scientists who did the work in the US Military Lab, (tests on the charred remains were done in several labs in the US, Austria and Russia, all drew the same conclusions) there are separate DNA profiles for each member of the family, including all four Grand Duchesses, and Alexei. NO ONE escaped, intestines or no intestines, AA was not Anastasia!

The proof is here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/news....aspx?id=50507

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Actually there is no proof AA spoke Russian other than the word of mouth of a few supporters, and allegedly some insane asylum workers.

Word of mouth? I don't think so. Nurse Erna Bucholz, a language teacher who had lived in Russia, testified before the Hamburg court that "Fräulein Unbekannt" spoke fluent Russian, not like a stranger who had learned it later. There are also notes about her speaking Russian in the protocols at Dalldorf.
During her stay in Berlin, it was very clear to everybody who came into contact with her that she understood Russian perfectly, but refused to speak it. Olga Alexandrovna wrote in a letter that "curiously enough, she seems to understand Russian, but answers only in German."
In the late 30's, when having a good period mentally, she used Russian freely with Professor Rudnev and Albert Coyle. Professor Rudnev would lend her Russian books to read, but the Nazi investigation into her claim made her shut herself in again, refusing to speak Russian any more.
Even her detractor, Nina Chavchavadze, said: It is not true that she cannot speak Russian.

Quote:

Very possibly, they were mistaking Kashubian Polish for Russian, or lying to help her cause, and it never happened.

Yes, my dear Annie, grasp at any straw you can find.

Quote:

Saying she spoke Russian early on actually hurts her case, because she didn't speak it later. This blows holes in the 'she was too traumatized by Ekaterinburg' theory of why she wouldn't use Russian. What, did she use it, and become delayed in her trauma later? AA was never proven to be able to speak, read or write it in front of the court or anyone else.

Read above. And her written Russian was used in the Hamburg trial to prove that it was of rather poor quality. Unfortunately, Anastasia's schoolbooks showed that the Grand Duchess's written Russian was not much better. Her German actually had fewer mistakes than her Russian.

Quote:

One of the reasons she was rejected by some who saw her in the 20's was because of her lack of Russian. For example, Nicholas II's sister, one of Alexandra's friends, and Prince Yussoupov all found it strange that AA spoke exclusively in German, while the real Anastasia was fluent in Russian, nearly fluent in English,(she spoke it on a daily basis with her mother) and well versed in French, but had barely any German. Why would a Russian girl use German with other native Russian speakers?

Olga Alexandrovna said after meeting her: "My heart believes that she is Anastasia." She afterwards wrote to her: "I remember when we were together (in Russia)"
Prince Yussupov was later willing to acknowledge AA as the Grand Duchess, provided he was paid for it.

Quote:

The real reason, of course, is that AA was not Anastasia, but actually Franziska Schanzkowska, who spoke German (and Kashoub Polish).

Yes, Franziska spoke GOOD German and a little Kashoubian. AA spoke BAD German and didn't understand a word of Polish.

Quote:

Trauma?Then the word of mouth reports of her speaking it are contradictory to what occured later. The bottom line is, AA could not prove she spoke Russian and never wrote it.

She certainly proved it enough times, and the written material in the Hamburg files clearly shows that she wrote it as well.

Quote:

There is also evidence she knew no English before being coached before coming to America. French, a language Anastasia studied for years, was nonexistent in AA, other than, you guessed it, a few reports from supporters.

According to Inspector Grünberg's nephew, Conrad Wahl, she "spoke more English than German" already in the early 20's. An affidavit from Professor Rudnev states that "she raved in English during anesthesia." As Agnes Gallagher said: "It is clear to me that she knows English very well, the problem is to get her to speak."

Quote:

I could go on for hours on this subject, but right now, the main issue is the intestines don't even matter anymore since the two missing bodies have been found and identified. According to the scientists who did the work in the US Military Lab, (tests on the charred remains were done in several labs in the US, Austria and Russia, all drew the same conclusions) there are separate DNA profiles for each member of the family, including all four Grand Duchesses, and Alexei. NO ONE escaped, intestines or no intestines, AA was not Anastasia!

Oh yes, I know you could go on for hours, desperately trying to change history. But whatever the outcome of the putative sample is, it does not change what took place.