9/11 revisted: Truther doc.

Caper · 16th June 2008, 09:30 PM

Ok I promised someone I would watch and comment on the entire movie. I am going to attempt to debunk as much as needs debunking and I will use the search function for as much as I can... but lately, I have found it very hard to find the exact information I am looking for with the search function.

the movie is here

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...H41IzXDg&hl=en

Anyway. I'll get started with my first comment.

The very first line in the movie.

"..... Under normal fire conditions we don't have building collapse. In fact up until 9/11 I was unaware of any protected steel structure that collapsed, any where in the world" - Jonathan Barnett, Prof. Fire Protection Engineering

I know members know of steel collapses and I know they were not normal fire circustances, but he threw the word in "protected". I thought the steel protection was blown off?

Anyway, thanks for the replys... I'll keep asking any questions i have about the film as it goes on (and I can't find answers).... I will ask them on this thread.... let me know if there is anything else about the film I should know.

beachnut · 16th June 2008, 09:42 PM

One Meridian Plaza, it was in danger of collapse. The building was totaled, steel weakened by fire. Darn, 9/11 truth is a big lie, told by big liars.

Quote:

Firefighting Operations Suspended
All interior firefighting efforts were halted after almost 11 hours of uninterrupted fire in the building. Consultation with a structural engineer and structural damage observed by units operating in the building led to the belief that there was a possibility of a pancake structural collapse of the fire damaged floors. Bearing this risk in mind along with the loss of three personnel and the lack of progress against the fire despite having secured adequate water pressure and flow for interior fire streams, an order was given to evacuate the building at 0700 on February 24. At the time of the evacuation, the fire appeared to be under control on the 22nd though 24th floors. It continued to bum on floors 25 and 26 and was spreading upward. There was a heavy smoke condition throughout most of the upper floors. The evacuation was completed by 0730.

After evacuating the building, portable master streams directed at the fire building from several exposures, including the Girard Building #l and One Centre Plaza, across the street to the west were the only firefighting efforts left in place.
Page 17

From
United States Fire Administration
Technical Report Series
High-rise Office Building Fire
One Meridian Plaza
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Fire proofing is to keep the steel from failing fast! It is just a matter of time/fuel/firefighting for a building to fail. The fire protections buys time so the fire can be fought and people can escape.

fullflavormenthol · 16th June 2008, 10:10 PM

Well the first thing I can comment on is the fact that troofers have a hard time with similes. “Like a controlled…” doesn’t necessarily mean that they are saying it was a CD.
And news people are the worst about use of descriptions, and now we pay for it later.

02:15; you notice how one person’s word that it “isn’t just an accident” is enough to draw a conclusion from. Hell on 9-11 my opinion was that “something” was going on somewhere else and the attack was a distraction, I seriously would have assumed in my paranoid belief at the time that Israel was being invaded. It was wrong, and the sad fact is that had I been on the air at that time troofers would have taken my suspicions seriously. In dramatic times, people make statements that shouldn’t be taken seriously.

03:30; what the doc is doing here is taking people trying to make sense out of an unreal occurrence in front of them, and using that as some kind of evidence of a grand conspiracy.

05:56; a lot of the same ol’ from the past. In the panic people talk about explosions, and troofers use this as proof of a controlled demolition. Never once does it seem to occur to these people that explosion often occur in regular fires without explosives.

15:58; creepy music as if in a horror film. Troofers see life as a movie and such can’t resist using movie tactics to imply a secretive agenda through these techniques.

19:00; “Oh my god…oh my god!” These are among the snuff porn moments that exist in all troofer films. It isn’t a troofer film until you install the moment of absolute horror that contributes nothing to the argument other than an appeal to emotion.

19:30; more of the “It sounded like…” well many things sound like fire works. Once a storm came through and destroyed a bunch of trees and the cracking sounded like a bunch of black cat fireworks going off, but that doesn’t mean it happened.

24:00; they take a special moment to focus on the “like a movie..” comment of someone witnessing WTC7 collapse. I mean to some degree I can’t comment because so far this movie isn’t bringing anything that isn’t in another CT movie of its kind.

36:00; more “Engineers” that aren’t really the right kind. Much like I am a Scientist of Communications…so again this is faux science by the troofers.

36:00 on…; is just more pseudo science taken care of in other threads on this forum, and there is nothing I can contribute more than that.

50:44; bad video of a controlled demolition, they use one where people are blocking the view and you can’t see the actual features of a controlled demolition.

54:00; the History Channel documentary debunked his statement. Old news.

58:00; classic the officer and the “building will blow up.” This has been dealt with on the forum. And from here I am done. If anyone wants to handle 58:00 on feel free, but I am done; because it has been dealt with before.

LashL · 16th June 2008, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Caper

I am going to attempt to debunk as much as needs debunking and I will use the search function for as much as I can... but lately, I have found it very hard to find the exact information I am looking for with the search function.

The search function here is currently out of whack, and was never great in the first place. So, if you need to search for posts here, use google search but after the keywords, type "site:forums.randi.org" and you'll find them easily enough.

16th June 2008, 09:30 PM	#1
Caper Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,946	9/11 revisted: Truther doc. Ok I promised someone I would watch and comment on the entire movie. I am going to attempt to debunk as much as needs debunking and I will use the search function for as much as I can... but lately, I have found it very hard to find the exact information I am looking for with the search function. the movie is here http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...H41IzXDg&hl=en Anyway. I'll get started with my first comment. The very first line in the movie. "..... Under normal fire conditions we don't have building collapse. In fact up until 9/11 I was unaware of any protected steel structure that collapsed, any where in the world" - Jonathan Barnett, Prof. Fire Protection Engineering I know members know of steel collapses and I know they were not normal fire circustances, but he threw the word in "protected". I thought the steel protection was blown off? Anyway, thanks for the replys... I'll keep asking any questions i have about the film as it goes on (and I can't find answers).... I will ask them on this thread.... let me know if there is anything else about the film I should know.
Caper Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,946

16th June 2008, 09:42 PM	#2
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,902	One Meridian Plaza, it was in danger of collapse. The building was totaled, steel weakened by fire. Darn, 9/11 truth is a big lie, told by big liars. Quote: Firefighting Operations Suspended All interior firefighting efforts were halted after almost 11 hours of uninterrupted fire in the building. Consultation with a structural engineer and structural damage observed by units operating in the building led to the belief that there was a possibility of a pancake structural collapse of the fire damaged floors. Bearing this risk in mind along with the loss of three personnel and the lack of progress against the fire despite having secured adequate water pressure and flow for interior fire streams, an order was given to evacuate the building at 0700 on February 24. At the time of the evacuation, the fire appeared to be under control on the 22nd though 24th floors. It continued to bum on floors 25 and 26 and was spreading upward. There was a heavy smoke condition throughout most of the upper floors. The evacuation was completed by 0730. After evacuating the building, portable master streams directed at the fire building from several exposures, including the Girard Building #l and One Centre Plaza, across the street to the west were the only firefighting efforts left in place. Page 17 From United States Fire Administration Technical Report Series High-rise Office Building Fire One Meridian Plaza Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Fire proofing is to keep the steel from failing fast! It is just a matter of time/fuel/firefighting for a building to fail. The fire protections buys time so the fire can be fought and people can escape.
	Last edited by beachnut; 16th June 2008 at 09:46 PM.

16th June 2008, 10:10 PM	#3
fullflavormenthol Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,417	Well the first thing I can comment on is the fact that troofers have a hard time with similes. “Like a controlled…” doesn’t necessarily mean that they are saying it was a CD. And news people are the worst about use of descriptions, and now we pay for it later. 02:15; you notice how one person’s word that it “isn’t just an accident” is enough to draw a conclusion from. Hell on 9-11 my opinion was that “something” was going on somewhere else and the attack was a distraction, I seriously would have assumed in my paranoid belief at the time that Israel was being invaded. It was wrong, and the sad fact is that had I been on the air at that time troofers would have taken my suspicions seriously. In dramatic times, people make statements that shouldn’t be taken seriously. 03:30; what the doc is doing here is taking people trying to make sense out of an unreal occurrence in front of them, and using that as some kind of evidence of a grand conspiracy. 05:56; a lot of the same ol’ from the past. In the panic people talk about explosions, and troofers use this as proof of a controlled demolition. Never once does it seem to occur to these people that explosion often occur in regular fires without explosives. 15:58; creepy music as if in a horror film. Troofers see life as a movie and such can’t resist using movie tactics to imply a secretive agenda through these techniques. 19:00; “Oh my god…oh my god!” These are among the snuff porn moments that exist in all troofer films. It isn’t a troofer film until you install the moment of absolute horror that contributes nothing to the argument other than an appeal to emotion. 19:30; more of the “It sounded like…” well many things sound like fire works. Once a storm came through and destroyed a bunch of trees and the cracking sounded like a bunch of black cat fireworks going off, but that doesn’t mean it happened. 24:00; they take a special moment to focus on the “like a movie..” comment of someone witnessing WTC7 collapse. I mean to some degree I can’t comment because so far this movie isn’t bringing anything that isn’t in another CT movie of its kind. 36:00; more “Engineers” that aren’t really the right kind. Much like I am a Scientist of Communications…so again this is faux science by the troofers. 36:00 on…; is just more pseudo science taken care of in other threads on this forum, and there is nothing I can contribute more than that. 50:44; bad video of a controlled demolition, they use one where people are blocking the view and you can’t see the actual features of a controlled demolition. 54:00; the History Channel documentary debunked his statement. Old news. 58:00; classic the officer and the “building will blow up.” This has been dealt with on the forum. And from here I am done. If anyone wants to handle 58:00 on feel free, but I am done; because it has been dealt with before.
	__________________ "Burning people! He says what we're all thinking!" -GLaDOS

16th June 2008, 10:45 PM	#4
LashL Goddess of Legaltainment™ Administrator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 26,204	Originally Posted by Caper I am going to attempt to debunk as much as needs debunking and I will use the search function for as much as I can... but lately, I have found it very hard to find the exact information I am looking for with the search function. The search function here is currently out of whack, and was never great in the first place. So, if you need to search for posts here, use google search but after the keywords, type "site:forums.randi.org" and you'll find them easily enough.