What convinced you to be skeptical?

[ExMinister]

This is my first attempt at starting a thread. Awhile back, someone brought up the point that even once someone like Sylvia Browne is shown to be a fraud, believers will continue to believe that there are other psychics and mediums who are real.

I'm curious what it is that finally convinced you to be skeptical about psychics and/or paranormal phenomena. Was there a turning point where you went from believing to dis-believing, and why? For those who never believed, was there a certain person or teacher in your life who influenced you?

For me, it has been a slow process - first my own experience with Sylvia Browne, then researching and realizing that con artists in this area are NOT rare - through this forum, reading James Randi's books and anything I could find to help me understand the world more scientifically. For example, the Bad Astronomer's blog showed me once and for all why astrology makes no sense. Carl Sagan and Sam Harris and Ayaan Hirsi Ali showed me the damage that belief sans evidence can potentially do in the world. Studying current research on the brain has shown me that there are perfectly rational explanations for astral travel, lucid dreams and the like. I had always assumed that skeptics were only skeptics because they simply hadn't experienced astral travel or psychic ability for themselves! Sadly, many people do think that way. Again, this forum showed me just how un-true that is. I have decided that I do not want to be able to be fooled by the likes of Sylvia Browne ever again, and I no longer am willing to believe anything without evidence, partly because there is just too much deception in the world, whether deliberate or unintentional.

I am curious not just for my own information, but also when someone who is woo-minded comes to you sincerely wanting to know why they shouldn't believe that Sylvia Browne is an exception, what do you tell them? What convinced you personally? Who do you quote? Do you steer them toward certain books or web sites? Do you have a personal anecdote to share of a time when you believed and how you learned otherwise? Do you have favorite de-bunking stories? I know anecdotes are not evidence, but I would still appreciate hearing them, if anyone is willing.

[aggle-rithm]

Reading "Flim-Flam" by James Randi.

I was actually pretty relieved to find that it was all a bunch of hooie. I didn't have to waste time worrying about all the inconsistencies in the natural world.

[Fnord]

That the Bible gives the value of Pi as 3 (30 / 10):

2Chronicles 4:2 reads thus, “Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.”

[Patsy]

Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan

[KateHL]

Even though I didn't believe in god, I thought psychic phenomena was 'worth looking into' for quite awhile. Eventually I realized all the 'evidence' was anecdotal and didn't hold up. I grew infatuated with reason and developed a love for the natural world (genetic and anthropological studies for the most part) while any interest I held in the paranormal withered and died.

For a time I would debunk e-mails of a paranormal nature sent by friends only to find they didn't particularly care and I'd find another such e-mail in my inbox in a few days. So what do I say to friends who believe this stuff? Nothing. I've learned that all the reason in the world can't stop someone from believing in something if they want to believe it. The times I've tried they've viewed me as negative or a killjoy so now I let them live with their delusions.

[Prometheus]

For me, it's been a very long and slow process, giving up one bit of woo at a time over many years. I can think of lots of contributing factors, but I can't point to any one catalyst that was more important than all the others.

[IMST]

It's just the way FSM made me.

Actual answer: I like reality the way it is. Once I had some competant science/critical thinking education in college I gravitated toward skepticism naturally.

[Dogdoctor]

I always questioned things although as a youth I questioned science as much as any other philosophy. Gradually I recognized the power of science over all other philosophies in finding the truth about the world. The turning point for me was learning to accept that I would be uncertain about things. The acceptance of uncertainty was like a big breakthrough for me and did happen suddenly although I had been trying to get there for a while.

[gambling_cruiser]

I spent years with some kind of new age woo-woo, but as much as i tried i couldn't swallow the whole package.
Then I saw James Randi on a BBC documentary who explained the mysteries of some of the woo-woo i liked to believe and suddenly new-age was over.

[gambling_cruiser]

All the things i had doubts about were exposed as clear nonsense and fraud.
And I was free!

[steve s]

I've been skeptical from a pretty early age. When I was about 11 or 12, we were visiting my aunt and she gave me a book to look at. I'm almost certain it was Van Daniken's Chariot of the Gods. In the book is an X-ray of a rock with something inside of it, supposedly proof of alien contact in ancient times. I remember thinking to myself that it looked like someone had managed to encrust a spark plug with minerals. I wasn't impressed by it.

I was in high school when Sagan's Cosmos came out. That pretty well cinched it for me.

Steve S.

[articulett]

I remember reading an article about Randi testing diviners... I hadn't thought that you could test these claims... his whole philosophy of "if this is true, then we can expect this"
was an eye opening experience for me.

[Lanzy]

When I found out the truth about Santa.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

You'll laugh but it was Penn and Teller's BS. I didn't know much about paranormal phenomena and the ways in which these beliefs manifested themselves today- one way or another- before I discovered the show.

I had very vaguely heard of the idea of psychics and mediums- and I don't think I ever even heard of pet psychics before- and heard about divination and various methods of fortune-telling (but never about the charlatany and almost nothing of the actual practise of it) but didn't have the faintest idea that the John Edwards and Sylvia Brownes of the world existed.

The only image I had of mediumship was as a bunch of people sitting around a table and holding hands and chanting circa 1900 and I really didn't feel one way or another about it.

The show instantly convinced me it was a fraud and that it was something to be fought and exposed. Before then, I simply didn't know it even existed and therefore, could have absolutely no opinion of it. I actually had never heard of skepticism, either, before I discovered the show.

Most of the paranormal, I simply didn't know about, didn't care about or somewhat believed in it but wasn't at all invested in it. I was doubtful of some of it but I was more disinterested than skeptical.

I semi-regularly read my horoscopes and believed in some of it and I was intrigued by the Bermuda triangle and the possibility of UFOs and I did once attempt to learn the tarot. I had heard some of the skeptical point of view on it but hadn't heard most of the scientific, psychological, historical arguments against it and explanations for it but the second I did, I was convinced.

[Leftus]

Greek Mythology. After reading different creation myths I couldn't help but notice they had as much proof as the Christian beliefs that I was being raised with.

[pchams]

I would say it was a few good high school science teachers, along with some sci-fi writers like Asimov and Clarke.
Toss in some natural history writers, and a few good beers.
Stir at will.

[Tressa]

Penn & Teller's BS.

Even though I had been Wiccan for twelve years I didn't get into the psychic aspect of it; I enjoyed the rituals and did do a bit of candles, crystals, herbs and tarot but not very deeply. I had vague knowledge of the psychic stuff but really wasn't all that interested (much like EeneyMinnieMoe). I was on my way out of Wicca when I discovered P&T's BS. That lead me to Randi, Shermer, Dawkins, Hitchens, Sagan, etc.

So my being part of this forum and going to TAM6 is all P&T's fault!

[coreyh]

I've always been a skeptic, but the moment that really flipped my switch from a passive skeptic to an active skeptic was a news report about the rapture. It had never hit me before that people REALLY believe they will be chosen and ascend. I had always looked at religious folks as just going through the motions...playing by the rules for the social aspect of their particular church.

Once that switch was flipped, I realized that people REALLY believe in astrology, dowsing, psychics, etc.

Then the frustration started...

[Rufo]

That's a bit like asking what convinced me to be good. Rather than being or not being skeptical, it's really more a matter of being more skeptical or less skeptical, in certain situations, about certain things.

I suppose the best answer is that I am interested in a multitude of disputed phenomena, need methods for weeding out information about them, and apply the same methods that are used for researching any other subject. I also like magic and mentalism, so there's always a tendency of thinking (regardless of subject) "That may seem impossible now, but so does the trick before you know the secret."

[Sherman Bay]

Ummm....logic? Common sense? The desire to not be fooled by crooks and others?

[EarlFaulk]

For me it was mostly having to grow up with a grandmother who denied evoloution with things like "God created everything, its silly to think that it all started from one big explosion." I remember even as a little 12 year old thinking that is the Big Bang Theory not the Theory of Evoloution when I was a teenager I tried to challenge her on it a few tinmes but I realized it was completely fruitless. Now I keep my positive feelings toward scienctific theories to myself. The only one that really knows my true feelings is my uncle, and he isnt too happy about it I dont think.
I think one of the real turning points for me was getting into the Astral Projection/OBE stuff that I happened to stumble upon in a library, they had some of Robert Munroe's and William Buhlman's books for check out. I also believed in Helena Blavatsky's supposed psychic powers until I read the other side which was the Encyclopedia of the Supernatural taht I think Mr. Randi has available for free on the JREF site. I tried for several years to have my own OBE and the closest I ever came was a short episode in which I had woken up but everything was fuzzy and I couldnt move (possibly sleep paralysis). Every once in a whil before falling asleep it would feel as if I had a second pair of legs that were kind of floating in an invisible breeze. Later after my experience with sleep paralysis I had a dream about flying across the road, although i was on a motorcycle of sorts. I concluded the whole OBE/AP phenomena is jsut another type of dreams.

[fromdownunder]

I was always a little bit sceptical (especially about religion), but I did start reading Von Daniken and several books about the Bermuda Triangle, and while not a "true believer", I did consider them at least plausible.

Not long after this, I came across two books - rebuttals of both of these "theories" Crash Go The Chariots (very slanted towards theism, but enough facts and references that could be chased up in a library to show that Von Daniken was simply talking out of his ****) and Bermuda Triangle - Mystery Solved. I read both of these, and particularly with the latter, noted the detailed references, footnotes and the amount of research which had gone into the debunking. I had also noticed that many of the Bermuda Triangle books wandered far and wide with the various events they purported to be documenting.

That was the beginning....

Later on, the SRA stuff, and Repressed Memory Syndrome came into my view, and I was sceptical from the beginning, and did quite a bit of research on these subjects to satisfy myself that I was going to take notice that there was a man behind the curtain. I now extend that view to pretty much everything that I am interested in.

Norm

[Pope130]

Reading "Chariots of the Gods" and realizing what a load of fetid dingoes kidneys it was.

[Hamradioguy]

I've always been something of a skepic for as long as I can remember (Although I did think there might be something to the UFO business when I was a kid). But the major reinforcement for me was listening to the Long John Nebel show on WOR radio when I was young. Now this show (see Wikipedia for details) went from midnight to 5:30AM, so I didn't listen THAT much (weekends and generally falling alseep around 3AM or so) but it was fascinating and unique: The Shaver Mystery, the Mystic Barber, Howard Menger and other "contactees", ghosts, Edgar Cayce, witchcraft, Atlantis, you name it, it was discussed. But unlike Art Bell, Long John was a genuine skeptic- his oft repeated line was, "I don't buy that". And he generally had some sharp skeptics on his panel- It's where I first encountered The Amazing Randi. Listening to critical thinkers like Randi, Ivan Sanderson, and someone by the name of "Major Markof, the walking dictionary" went a long way toward solidifying my skeptical thinking.

[AliasN]

If I had to choose one influence on me it would undoubtedly be the Catholic religion. I was raised as a non-practicing Protestant United but went to Catholic schools out of necessity. The amount of just out-and-out crazy, nonsensical, non-sequitors that they cram down your throat before you even get out of kindergarten is ridiculous.

Sadly, I think anger fuelled most of my rebellion against its doctrines and underlying principals (don't worry, I'm much better now!). If I had to pick a turning point for giving dogmatic religion the heave-ho, it was when I was in grade five. My family cat had died and I was distraught. My loving, Christian teacher saw that I was in pain and asked me what was wrong. I told her the sad news and she said she was sorry. Then I tried to comfort myself with the old standby, "well, at least I'll see her in heaven", to which she replied quickly, "oh no, dear. Pets don't have souls, they don't get to go to heaven."

I had had many, many doubts and misgivings about these things that they were teaching me up to then (another hard concept was the whole babies in purgatory business), but I remember pretty clearly that was when I washed my hands of it. I immediately upped my output of impertinent, difficult-to-answer questions, which didn't abate until about the end of high school.

As for hearing about intelligent skepticism more formally I was also influenced by Penn & Teller. However, it was their book "How to Play With Your Food". I love comedy and I love smart people, and that book was entertaining AND enlightening. It not only taught me how to not trust my own eyes, but how to cut up a banana inside the skin, too. I went off on my own for a few years, and then lately came here.

Wow that was long. Sorry

[MetalSeagull]

Watching James Randi on The Tonight Show. Seeing him show how spoon bending and some of the mentalist tricks worked made me determined not to be so easily fooled in the future.

I'd say that, and pitting logic against my religious beliefs as a teenager.

[enjoytheview]

Catholicism did it for me too.

Catholic school started the process off nicely, but I still believed up until my grandfather died. His funeral was all about Jesus and the ******* priest wanted to charge (he used the word 'donation', but the 'donation' was a fixed amount, and not optional) to have my grandfather's name mentioned during mass. Seeing religion for the crap that it is made me question all the other stuff I'd heard. It wasn't too long before I learned to think for myself.

[JonathanClement]

For me, it was when I was tormented about zeitgeist and soon after that, every little conspiracy theory. I wanted so bad to be "The hero", and zeitgeist threw that opportunity at me and I realized that I couldn't handle it and it drove me nuts. It was then that I learned not to believe everything I heard. Even if it was comforting.

Of course, the way I left Christianity played a big part, too, but it was mainly zeitgeist.

[Ron_Tomkins]

Originally Posted by ExMinister

What convinced you to be skeptical?

James Randi.

[Piggy]

Nothing else worked.

[Damien Evans]

Originally Posted by In My Spare Time

It's just the way FSM made me.

Actual answer: I like reality the way it is. Once I had some competant science/critical thinking education in college I gravitated toward skepticism naturally.

Same here.

[ExMinister]

Interesting and appreciated.

I hadn't known about Penn & Teller BS and I looked into ordering the DVDs yesterday.

James Randi's books are great, and this forum, which I found thanks to RSL, who is also the one who recommended I read The Demon-Haunted World. The writers I've discovered this past year include James Randi, Carl Sagan, Michael Shermer, Sam Harris, Brian Green, Natalie Angier, Mary Roach, Bertrand Russell, Thomas Paine, Isaac Asimov. Thinking skeptically has become a lot more fun and satisfying than thinking the old way. It is teaching me to be intellectually honest, and to me it's a lot more exciting to find answers when you are forced to stick with the actual evidence. It's also freeing to realize that one is free to disregard the blatantly irrational beliefs in the world without guilt.

[Empress]

I think I just have a natural tendency towards skepticism. But the thing that really did it for me was that I was raised Mormon. They don't accept evolution, and believe in the Genesis creation story. Since Genesis makes no sense, I obviously had many questions that couldn't properly answered. I was told to just take it on faith--something that didn't sit well with a person naturally tending towards skepticism.

Then we started studying evolution in science class. Since I was brought up in an either/or situation, either Genesis is correct or it isn't, and theistic evolution was not proposed as an alternative (nor did it occur to me independently) I naturally went for the explanation that made sense and had mountains of evidence to support it.

Accepting that the religion I was taught was correct in all things was obviously incorrect as to our origins, made me take the next logical step, and question the very existence of god. I became happily atheistic, and happily skeptic, at that moment. I think I was 13.

[IXP]

Originally Posted by fromdownunder

I was always a little bit sceptical (especially about religion), but I did start reading Von Daniken and several books about the Bermuda Triangle, and while not a "true believer", I did consider them at least plausible.

Not long after this, I came across two books - rebuttals of both of these "theories" Crash Go The Chariots (very slanted towards theism, but enough facts and references that could be chased up in a library to show that Von Daniken was simply talking out of his ****) and Bermuda Triangle - Mystery Solved. I read both of these, and particularly with the latter, noted the detailed references, footnotes and the amount of research which had gone into the debunking. I had also noticed that many of the Bermuda Triangle books wandered far and wide with the various events they purported to be documenting.
Norm

I can't believe it. I was going to answer with exactly these 4 books as having cemented my skepticism.

I read them all in sequence in an attempt to evaluate the arguments with an open mind. I was struck by the differences in what was considered logic and evidence between the woo writers and the debunkers. Needless to say, the debunkers won hands down.

IXP

[chillzero]

Even though I was a practising massage therapist, reflexologist and tarot reader, I was always a skeptic, in that I questioned everything before me. I loved to talk, and I loved to pursue a train of thought to the end.

I was constantly disturbed by the reluctance of my peers to talk in depth about things they believed and practised, and alarmed by how aggressive many of them would become if I pressed on a topic. I found the answers I was getting to be unsatisfactory, and finding this community helped me get other answers that filled in the gaps, bringing me back to reality. I'd never heard of JREF, or James Randi until I was directed to come here and prove my abilities.

Since then, I've been disturbed to realise just how little there is out there to help people learn investigative skills, and how to think critically.

[Locknar]

I dunno...I've always been interested in the paranormal ideal, but never bought into it.

I mean, what kid that saw "Escape from Witch Moutain" in the 70s not want to be Tia or Tony...who didn't want to be Will Robinson ("Lost In Space"), or on the USS Enterprise encountering new life....Ultraman fighting monsters, etc.

But I always saw it all as fun fantasy. Even shows like "In Search Of" (I loved that show)...I took what they showed as elaborate tricks vs etched in stone fact.

Overall, for me it was the opposite; that is to say I remember when I realized people actually believed in the paranoraml idea.

My mom brought home some of those "UFO" magazines (since I was a Trek fan)...and I was just stunned. Up until that point, I took it all (UFOs, SB types, "In Search Of", etc.) as just entertainment, with no clue people actually believed.

[Clairvoyant_Kyle]

Wow, it was multiple stages for me, but I’ll try to keep them short.

One: When I was a child I loved the shows “In Search Of,” “Unsolved Mysteries,” etc. So I told everyone I wanted to be a paranormal researcher. So my first step was belief and extreme interest in the unexplained and paranormal.

Two: When I was in 8th grade I started hanging with new friends. They decided to mess with my overactive mind and told me their house was haunted. After 2 days of 8 people working to move things around behind my back, make noises, pretending to see things and acting really scared they all laughed at me and told me they had been lying. Two weeks later we pulled the same trick on another person. So my second step was seeing how easy it is fool some one if all you do is try.

Three: A friend of mine was an atheist. Although I never wanted to hear about it, over time of him telling me not to just take his word for it, but instead to just be open to other ideas. So I listened and started to draw my own conclusions on what everyone was saying about life and other unexplained things. My third step was to be open to different possibilities.

Four: I found a randomly placed sentence in a book that I had to correct for English class in my first term of college. It said some like, “James Randi will give $10,000 to anyone who can prove a paranormal claim” I went home looked up Randi and finally realized I wasn’t alone. I read about critical thinking as a skeptic and have been breaking the world down ever since that day. My fourth step was acceptance from a large group of people who all know the world is full of a bunch of BS and need to be thoroughly examined.

So thanks a lot everyone.

-Kyle

[alfaniner]

Oh, I recall some incidents from childhood, asking many questions, but this started on the continuous road where there has been no turning back.

David Blaine.

I saw one of his first TV specials, the one with the "levitation". As I had missed the first 10 minutes of it, I only caught the remaining hour that only showed the astonished reactions of the watchers. I wondered why I never actually saw him do the trick. Then in a final shot it was an over-the-viewer-shoulder POV, and I saw what appeared to be impossible. Now, had I seen the first 10 minutes, where the trick was actually shown, I would have immediately seen the difference and taken the final shot to be a mechanical effect (which it was, and unfairly so). Later on, I did catch the first 10 minutes in a rerun, and doubt I would have been as puzzled if presented with that first.

So I spent some Google time trying to find out how the heck he did it, and one of the links brought me here to the JREF Forum. The answer wasn't given away, but it did prompt me to look up "Balducci effect". I then continued browsing the threads and learning about more interesting things.

Then came 9/11/01, which threw a lot of things into chaos, and consequently, into sharp focus. I've gotten 2,941 times smarter since then...

[AmyWilson]

People still believe Sylvia Browne because what she believes is in her books. Someone can point out all they like how Sylvia Browne might've been wrong on TV with predictions, etc, but just because she got something wrong doesn't mean she's a fraud. There may be math experts out there, but even they're wrong sometimes on their answers; or just don't know.

[JoeEllison]

I've always been an atheist, and I've always been generally skeptical. The thing that really cinched it for me as far as general woo is my love of science fiction novels and comic books. Comparing the fictional worlds I read about to the real world I lived in taught me a couple of lessons. The first lesson is that no matter how much I want certain things to be true, reality doesn't care either way. The second is that a world filled with woo is fundamentally different than one without in ways that make it pretty obvious that woo is nonsense.

Here's an example of that second point: 9-11 conspiracy stupidity. Some people claim that the Twin Towers were taken down with planted explosives, and the planes were just a cover. In a world with a giant conspiracy involving hidden explosives, hijacked planes, and absolute control of the media... wouldn't it have been easier to just plant explosives and blame terrorists? Or, at least, time the explosions to at least somewhat coincide with the plane crashes?