'Standard Operating Procedure', Errol Morris- The Abu Ghraib conspiracy

Undesired Walrus · 22nd June 2008, 04:20 AM

I went to a Q&A with Erroll Morris, followed by his latest film "Standard Operating Procedure" last night. Morris directed the excellent 'Fog Of War' with Robert S. McNamara, which won the Oscar for best documentary.

We all remember the image of Sabrima Harman standing over the body of Al-Jamadi? Well in a series of letters written to her girlfriend before pictures became public, she claims she was taking pictures to show what was happening and that she was smiling in order to cover up her motives. According to Sgt. Ivan Frederick the CIA agents "[s]tressed him out so bad that the man died. [Prison personnel] put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. [...] The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV in his arm and took him away." An alleged lie was circulated that he had died from a heart attack. If true, one look at his body showed it was at least manslaughter. The interview goes on to argue that the body was ordered to be tortured in a Strappado fashion.

There are interviews with a man in the shower (Where Jamadi was killed), who saw the CIA agent beat and eventually kill him from the torture. Yet the CIA agent, Mark Swanner, has never been charged. Sabrina Harman -on the other hand- was charged with taking Jamadi's picture 18 hours after he was killed. She was found guilty. Interestingly enough, the only reason we knew he died was because of this photograph, as he was a ghost prisoner.

The premise of the film is that the little guys got the blame, whilst the real culprits could blame those in the photographs. Remember the 'Walking dog' picture of Lynndie England? The film shows that the image is actually cropped, leaving out those who are standing next to her.

It's a brilliant film (partly because of the interview with England), and I cannot recommend it enough.

Liszt · 22nd June 2008, 07:12 AM

this is absolutely disgusting.

What is worse (well, perhaps not worse, but as bad) is that there will be many people lining up to defend these actions.

Is the film theatrical release only right now?

And are the real villains going to be bought to justice?

Liszt · 22nd June 2008, 02:43 PM

I thought of something that is worse then the torture-death of innocent people...

...No one cares.

gumboot · 22nd June 2008, 03:39 PM

The real problem is that in any other military personnel are barred from overseas deployment until they have a minimum of Stage 2 Laws of War. In contrast American forces are not required to have any Laws of War training before being deployed. Worse yet, people such as MPs - those running these prisons - are often last on the last of people to be trained up.

And that's not even getting into the activities of the CIA who are not covered by the Laws of War.

Simply put, the USA totally screwed up this "War on Terror". From the start they should have publicly and clearly stated that they considered it an international armed conflict - not a crime fighting operation - and that all captured terrorist suspects would be detained as enemy combatants until such time as the war ended and repatriation could occur, while captured enemy combatants suspected of war crimes would be tried by military tribunal in accordance with standard practise.

If they had established this from the outset I suspect a lot of this stuff never would have happened.

Undesired Walrus · 22nd June 2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by gumboot

Worse yet, people such as MPs - those running these prisons - are often last on the last of people to be trained up.

Two of them are standing next to a pile of naked Iraqi bodies in one photo..They were not charged.

8den · 23rd June 2008, 03:47 PM

You just made me realise that I have a forgotten birthday present, a triple bill of Earl Morris documentaries on DVD.

Sweet.

I read an interview with England a few weeks ago, it's good to see an issue like this expanded beyond the original scope of a few minor privates and corporals. I find it hard to believe that such rampant abuse occurred under the noses of even the most junior officer.

Something of a bizarre aside that is probably only of interest to, er myself and gumboot, is that Morris uses a periscope device attached to his camera, it allows morris to interview subjects, and maintain eye contact, while the subject directs his answer to the camera. It allows an intimacy with the interviewer and the audience at the same time.

Undesired Walrus · 24th June 2008, 01:03 AM

It's called the Interrertron. It acts like a telepromter but with Morris' face instead of words.

22nd June 2008, 04:20 AM	#1
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,886	'Standard Operating Procedure', Errol Morris- The Abu Ghraib conspiracy I went to a Q&A with Erroll Morris, followed by his latest film "Standard Operating Procedure" last night. Morris directed the excellent 'Fog Of War' with Robert S. McNamara, which won the Oscar for best documentary. We all remember the image of Sabrima Harman standing over the body of Al-Jamadi? Well in a series of letters written to her girlfriend before pictures became public, she claims she was taking pictures to show what was happening and that she was smiling in order to cover up her motives. According to Sgt. Ivan Frederick the CIA agents "[s]tressed him out so bad that the man died. [Prison personnel] put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. [...] The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV in his arm and took him away." An alleged lie was circulated that he had died from a heart attack. If true, one look at his body showed it was at least manslaughter. The interview goes on to argue that the body was ordered to be tortured in a Strappado fashion. There are interviews with a man in the shower (Where Jamadi was killed), who saw the CIA agent beat and eventually kill him from the torture. Yet the CIA agent, Mark Swanner, has never been charged. Sabrina Harman -on the other hand- was charged with taking Jamadi's picture 18 hours after he was killed. She was found guilty. Interestingly enough, the only reason we knew he died was because of this photograph, as he was a ghost prisoner. The premise of the film is that the little guys got the blame, whilst the real culprits could blame those in the photographs. Remember the 'Walking dog' picture of Lynndie England? The film shows that the image is actually cropped, leaving out those who are standing next to her. It's a brilliant film (partly because of the interview with England), and I cannot recommend it enough.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

22nd June 2008, 07:12 AM	#2
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036	this is absolutely disgusting. What is worse (well, perhaps not worse, but as bad) is that there will be many people lining up to defend these actions. Is the film theatrical release only right now? And are the real villains going to be bought to justice?
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036

22nd June 2008, 02:43 PM	#3
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036	I thought of something that is worse then the torture-death of innocent people... ...No one cares.
Liszt Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,036

22nd June 2008, 03:39 PM	#4
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,124	The real problem is that in any other military personnel are barred from overseas deployment until they have a minimum of Stage 2 Laws of War. In contrast American forces are not required to have any Laws of War training before being deployed. Worse yet, people such as MPs - those running these prisons - are often last on the last of people to be trained up. And that's not even getting into the activities of the CIA who are not covered by the Laws of War. Simply put, the USA totally screwed up this "War on Terror". From the start they should have publicly and clearly stated that they considered it an international armed conflict - not a crime fighting operation - and that all captured terrorist suspects would be detained as enemy combatants until such time as the war ended and repatriation could occur, while captured enemy combatants suspected of war crimes would be tried by military tribunal in accordance with standard practise. If they had established this from the outset I suspect a lot of this stuff never would have happened.
	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.

22nd June 2008, 05:07 PM	#5
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,886	Originally Posted by gumboot Worse yet, people such as MPs - those running these prisons - are often last on the last of people to be trained up. Two of them are standing next to a pile of naked Iraqi bodies in one photo..They were not charged.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

23rd June 2008, 03:47 PM	#6
8den Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,282	You just made me realise that I have a forgotten birthday present, a triple bill of Earl Morris documentaries on DVD. Sweet. I read an interview with England a few weeks ago, it's good to see an issue like this expanded beyond the original scope of a few minor privates and corporals. I find it hard to believe that such rampant abuse occurred under the noses of even the most junior officer. Something of a bizarre aside that is probably only of interest to, er myself and gumboot, is that Morris uses a periscope device attached to his camera, it allows morris to interview subjects, and maintain eye contact, while the subject directs his answer to the camera. It allows an intimacy with the interviewer and the audience at the same time.
8den Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,282	__________________ “If every trace of any single religion were wiped out again and nothing was passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it out again." - Penn Jillette in God, No! Last edited by 8den; 23rd June 2008 at 03:49 PM.

24th June 2008, 01:03 AM	#7
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,886	It's called the Interrertron. It acts like a telepromter but with Morris' face instead of words.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945 Last edited by Undesired Walrus; 24th June 2008 at 01:04 AM.