Question on the JFK man-in-the-sewer concept

Hans · 10th July 2008, 08:14 PM

Does anyone known where this idea - that the "2nd" shooter was hidding in a storm drain or sewer-came from?

The first I knew about it was seeing it on an X-file thing

Anyone know who came up with it and when?

OldTigerCub · 10th July 2008, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Does anyone known where this idea - that the "2nd" shooter was hidding in a storm drain or sewer-came from?

The first I knew about it was seeing it on an X-file thing

Anyone know who came up with it and when?

I think I read about that in a magazine about 30 years ago. An article in "Swank" or some other "mens' magazine" (I ONLY BOUGHT THEM FOR THE ARTICLES!!!!)
Ok, yeah...

Not exactly the pinacle of journalistic integrity, though.

GreNME · 11th July 2008, 12:07 PM

Was the alleged second shooter a child or a little person? They would have had to be to fit, even today as far as I know.

Hans · 11th July 2008, 06:39 PM

Anyone know of source that debunks this 'theory", ie information on the Dallas sewer system?

I would think someone standing in a sewer opening would be plainly visible to the people lining the street on the other side.

Monza · 11th July 2008, 07:39 PM

I saw a documentary where someone crawled into the sewer and it was determined that there was no line of site to JFK from this location. So the fatal shot could not have come from here.

I would recommend Vincent Bugliosi's extremely thorough opus Reclaiming History for more information. I don't recall if this particular theory was discussed in the book, but it is worth a look.

Blender Head · 11th July 2008, 09:56 PM

Can someone explain the 'Secret Service stand-down' theory?

Thanks.

GreNME · 11th July 2008, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Anyone know of source that debunks this 'theory", ie information on the Dallas sewer system?

I would think someone standing in a sewer opening would be plainly visible to the people lining the street on the other side.

Yeah, I work a couple miles from Dealy Plaza. There's no way a grown man with a gun would be able to fit down there with any comfort (unless they're a contortionist), and the way the openings are there wouldn't be any line of sight above three feet.

And that's today. Unless someone is going to argue the sewer system was significantly different (as in larger, more open, and easily accessible) in the 1960s than it is today, the question is fairly ridiculous.

Comsat Angel · 12th July 2008, 01:47 PM

What's going to be visible from sewer-level? The wheels of the cars passing by? I doubt a sniper, even if he got into such a sewer, would have been able to see potential victims.

Hans · 12th July 2008, 02:45 PM

Maybe it was a vicious dwarf? <grin>

MG1962 · 12th July 2008, 04:01 PM

I always thought it was pretty obvious that Kennedy shot himself

Foolmewunz · 12th July 2008, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Maybe it was a vicious dwarf? <grin>

Maybe it was a troll?..... Or....

(wait for it)

(wait for it)

(wait for it)

Dare one suggest.... A Gnome!

(I slay myself!)

GreNME · 13th July 2008, 12:44 AM

I think it was a leprechaun. JFK (who was Irish Catholic) was after the leprechaun pot-o-gold-standard and the wee folk weren't going to have it. It's all right there staring us in the face, but the sheeple just don't want to see it.

Hans · 13th July 2008, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Maybe it was a troll?..... Or....

(... A Gnome!

Damn Gnomes, they should go back to where they come from....where do they come from by the way?

SpitfireIX · 13th July 2008, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Blender Head

Can someone explain the 'Secret Service stand-down' theory?

Thanks.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

This is a fine example of an affirmed-consequent fallacy; it ignores all other possible explanations for the failure to place agents on the running boards.

Blender Head · 16th July 2008, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

This is a fine example of an affirmed-consequent fallacy; it ignores all other possible explanations for the failure to place agents on the running boards.

Yeah, I've seen that video. What are the explanations?

roundhead · 16th July 2008, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Blender Head

Yeah, I've seen that video. What are the explanations?

The one guy who throws his arms in th air is obviously upset that the guys were pulled off the car, its hard after watching that to arrive at another conclusion.

ConspiRaider · 19th July 2008, 01:12 PM

Remember that Twilight Zone episode where the little boy rules the entire town with his mind and everyone's skeered because he can read their minds? And he turned that Perry Como album guy into a Jack in the Box?

Maybe the kid didn't wish him into the corn field. Maybe he inadvertently wished him into a Dallas sewer. The guy pops out of the sewer at the right moment, uses his nose to pull the trigger on a Mauser wired to his bouncy head, and then he's gone! Like the cops are gonna suspect a jack in the box they later find in the sewer? I wouldn't, if I was in uniform. Or maybe they never found the toy because the Evil Kid fixed the software bug and was finally able to get him to the corn field.

ANYTHING is possible.

GreNME · 19th July 2008, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by roundhead

The one guy who throws his arms in th air is obviously upset that the guys were pulled off the car, its hard after watching that to arrive at another conclusion.

Have you ever been to Dealy Plaza?

Calben · 20th July 2008, 12:30 AM

We will all know in 2027, or some strangely long amount of time from now when they are planning to release more information on the assasination.
Why are they not out now?....I dont know.

Travis · 20th July 2008, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by roundhead

The one guy who throws his arms in th air is obviously upset that the guys were pulled off the car, its hard after watching that to arrive at another conclusion.

First off, my impression was that the man was telling people to stay back, not throwing his arms up in some upset tantrum.

Secondly, what difference would it have made if they were back on the bumper? I don't think they would have been of any interference to the shots from the book depository.

boloboffin · 20th July 2008, 08:35 AM

Thirdly, that guy is at Love Field.

technoextreme · 20th July 2008, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Monza

I saw a documentary where someone crawled into the sewer and it was determined that there was no line of site to JFK from this location. So the fatal shot could not have come from here.

I would recommend Vincent Bugliosi's extremely thorough opus Reclaiming History for more information. I don't recall if this particular theory was discussed in the book, but it is worth a look.

Unsolved History is the documentary you are thinking of. They even recreated the magic bullet shot and a doctor they showed the bullet two was amazed at the extent of the injuries.

thebestodb · 20th July 2008, 11:50 AM

it was also mentioned in an interview with tony gambino.

chran · 21st July 2008, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Calben

We will all know in 2027, or some strangely long amount of time from now when they are planning to release more information on the assasination.
Why are they not out now?....I dont know.

Excuse me?

All the documents relating to the assasination, save some tax-records, are already out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassi...s_Review_Board

GreNME · 21st July 2008, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by boloboffin

Thirdly, that guy is at Love Field.

And just to note: Love Field is not within shooting distance of Dealy Plaza.

Calben · 22nd July 2008, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by chran

Excuse me?

All the documents relating to the assasination, save some tax-records, are already out.

If you go to wikipedia and search the year 2017 it will exclaim, under "unspecified dates" something about sealed JFK files being released.
It may be meaningless as you say, I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist but it struck me as interesting.
If you've seen this before I would love to know what those files are..

(I would post the link myself but you have to accumulate 15 board posts before you can paste URL's..sorry.)

fuelair · 22nd July 2008, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Damn Gnomes, they should go back to where they come from....where do they come from by the way?

Evidence is they are pulled by themselves from their own rectums. It's a topological thing.

GreNME · 22nd July 2008, 03:47 PM

I think you guys are making a serious mistake not acknowledging the leprechaun angle. I tell you, the little people are planning our subjugation and ultimate demise!

fuelair · 22nd July 2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by GreNME

I think you guys are making a serious mistake not acknowledging the leprechaun angle. I tell you, the little people are planning our subjugation and ultimate demise!

I believe you may be maligning the fine officers and troops of LEP Recon. Mud Person, you might just want to rethink that!!

Alferd_Packer · 25th July 2008, 03:54 PM

What about the thermite?

moon1969 · 25th July 2008, 04:32 PM

JFK only got what he deserved for supporting the Diem Coup and starting the Vietnam war. JFK was not god and he was not a hero. Diem and the people in South Vietnam are the real heroes.

10th July 2008, 08:14 PM	#1
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,788	Question on the JFK man-in-the-sewer concept Does anyone known where this idea - that the "2nd" shooter was hidding in a storm drain or sewer-came from? The first I knew about it was seeing it on an X-file thing Anyone know who came up with it and when?

10th July 2008, 11:42 PM	#2
OldTigerCub Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Steeler Nation, Pa. Posts: 1,633	Originally Posted by Hans Does anyone known where this idea - that the "2nd" shooter was hidding in a storm drain or sewer-came from? The first I knew about it was seeing it on an X-file thing Anyone know who came up with it and when? I think I read about that in a magazine about 30 years ago. An article in "Swank" or some other "mens' magazine" (I ONLY BOUGHT THEM FOR THE ARTICLES!!!!) Ok, yeah... Not exactly the pinacle of journalistic integrity, though.
	__________________ "Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe

11th July 2008, 12:07 PM	#3
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Was the alleged second shooter a child or a little person? They would have had to be to fit, even today as far as I know.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

11th July 2008, 07:39 PM	#5
Monza Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 950	I saw a documentary where someone crawled into the sewer and it was determined that there was no line of site to JFK from this location. So the fatal shot could not have come from here. I would recommend Vincent Bugliosi's extremely thorough opus Reclaiming History for more information. I don't recall if this particular theory was discussed in the book, but it is worth a look.
Monza Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 950

11th July 2008, 09:56 PM	#6
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 682	Can someone explain the 'Secret Service stand-down' theory? Thanks.
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 682	__________________ "As you know, Bush never attempted to link Saddam to the 9/11 attacks." -Ron Wieck "The only way for there to be no conspiracy is for nothing to exist." -Travis [DRG] is a follower of Jesus Christ and the Truth, so I will follow St. Griffin as well in this regard. -Galileo

11th July 2008, 06:39 PM	#4
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,788	Anyone know of source that debunks this 'theory", ie information on the Dallas sewer system? I would think someone standing in a sewer opening would be plainly visible to the people lining the street on the other side.

11th July 2008, 11:29 PM	#7
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by Hans Anyone know of source that debunks this 'theory", ie information on the Dallas sewer system? I would think someone standing in a sewer opening would be plainly visible to the people lining the street on the other side. Yeah, I work a couple miles from Dealy Plaza. There's no way a grown man with a gun would be able to fit down there with any comfort (unless they're a contortionist), and the way the openings are there wouldn't be any line of sight above three feet. And that's today. Unless someone is going to argue the sewer system was significantly different (as in larger, more open, and easily accessible) in the 1960s than it is today, the question is fairly ridiculous.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

12th July 2008, 01:47 PM	#8
Comsat Angel Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 893	What's going to be visible from sewer-level? The wheels of the cars passing by? I doubt a sniper, even if he got into such a sewer, would have been able to see potential victims.
Comsat Angel Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 893

12th July 2008, 02:45 PM	#9
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,788	Maybe it was a vicious dwarf? <grin>
	Last edited by Hans; 12th July 2008 at 02:45 PM. Reason: none of your business

12th July 2008, 04:01 PM	#10
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	I always thought it was pretty obvious that Kennedy shot himself

12th July 2008, 11:07 PM	#11
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,523	Originally Posted by Hans Maybe it was a vicious dwarf? <grin> Maybe it was a troll?..... Or.... (wait for it) (wait for it) (wait for it) Dare one suggest.... A Gnome! (I slay myself!)
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

13th July 2008, 12:44 AM	#12
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	I think it was a leprechaun. JFK (who was Irish Catholic) was after the leprechaun pot-o-gold-standard and the wee folk weren't going to have it. It's all right there staring us in the face, but the sheeple just don't want to see it.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

13th July 2008, 11:09 AM	#13
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,788	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Maybe it was a troll?..... Or.... (... A Gnome! Damn Gnomes, they should go back to where they come from....where do they come from by the way?

16th July 2008, 08:19 AM	#16
roundhead Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 824	Originally Posted by Blender Head Yeah, I've seen that video. What are the explanations? The one guy who throws his arms in th air is obviously upset that the guys were pulled off the car, its hard after watching that to arrive at another conclusion.
roundhead Banned Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 824

19th July 2008, 01:12 PM	#17
ConspiRaider Writer of Nothingnesses Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 11,169	Remember that Twilight Zone episode where the little boy rules the entire town with his mind and everyone's skeered because he can read their minds? And he turned that Perry Como album guy into a Jack in the Box? Maybe the kid didn't wish him into the corn field. Maybe he inadvertently wished him into a Dallas sewer. The guy pops out of the sewer at the right moment, uses his nose to pull the trigger on a Mauser wired to his bouncy head, and then he's gone! Like the cops are gonna suspect a jack in the box they later find in the sewer? I wouldn't, if I was in uniform. Or maybe they never found the toy because the Evil Kid fixed the software bug and was finally able to get him to the corn field. ANYTHING is possible.

19th July 2008, 05:14 PM	#18
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by roundhead The one guy who throws his arms in th air is obviously upset that the guys were pulled off the car, its hard after watching that to arrive at another conclusion. Have you ever been to Dealy Plaza?
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

20th July 2008, 12:30 AM	#19
Calben New Blood Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 14	We will all know in 2027, or some strangely long amount of time from now when they are planning to release more information on the assasination. Why are they not out now?....I dont know.
Calben New Blood Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 14

20th July 2008, 04:08 AM	#20
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,954	Originally Posted by roundhead The one guy who throws his arms in th air is obviously upset that the guys were pulled off the car, its hard after watching that to arrive at another conclusion. First off, my impression was that the man was telling people to stay back, not throwing his arms up in some upset tantrum. Secondly, what difference would it have made if they were back on the bumper? I don't think they would have been of any interference to the shots from the book depository.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

20th July 2008, 08:35 AM	#21
boloboffin Guest Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 5,001	Thirdly, that guy is at Love Field.

20th July 2008, 11:40 AM	#22
technoextreme Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,786	Originally Posted by Monza I saw a documentary where someone crawled into the sewer and it was determined that there was no line of site to JFK from this location. So the fatal shot could not have come from here. I would recommend Vincent Bugliosi's extremely thorough opus Reclaiming History for more information. I don't recall if this particular theory was discussed in the book, but it is worth a look. Unsolved History is the documentary you are thinking of. They even recreated the magic bullet shot and a doctor they showed the bullet two was amazed at the extent of the injuries.

20th July 2008, 11:50 AM	#23
thebestodb Scholar Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 62	it was also mentioned in an interview with tony gambino.
thebestodb Scholar Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 62

21st July 2008, 03:00 AM	#24
chran Muse Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Denmark, yo Posts: 630	Originally Posted by Calben We will all know in 2027, or some strangely long amount of time from now when they are planning to release more information on the assasination. Why are they not out now?....I dont know. Excuse me? All the documents relating to the assasination, save some tax-records, are already out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassi...s_Review_Board

21st July 2008, 01:24 PM	#25
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by boloboffin Thirdly, that guy is at Love Field. And just to note: Love Field is not within shooting distance of Dealy Plaza.
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

22nd July 2008, 03:58 AM	#26
Calben New Blood Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 14	Originally Posted by chran Excuse me? All the documents relating to the assasination, save some tax-records, are already out. If you go to wikipedia and search the year 2017 it will exclaim, under "unspecified dates" something about sealed JFK files being released. It may be meaningless as you say, I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist but it struck me as interesting. If you've seen this before I would love to know what those files are.. (I would post the link myself but you have to accumulate 15 board posts before you can paste URL's..sorry.)
Calben New Blood Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 14

22nd July 2008, 01:47 PM	#27
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by Hans Damn Gnomes, they should go back to where they come from....where do they come from by the way? Evidence is they are pulled by themselves from their own rectums. It's a topological thing.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Last edited by fuelair; 22nd July 2008 at 01:48 PM. Reason: +last sentence.

22nd July 2008, 03:47 PM	#28
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	I think you guys are making a serious mistake not acknowledging the leprechaun angle. I tell you, the little people are planning our subjugation and ultimate demise!
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

22nd July 2008, 06:58 PM	#29
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by GreNME I think you guys are making a serious mistake not acknowledging the leprechaun angle. I tell you, the little people are planning our subjugation and ultimate demise! I believe you may be maligning the fine officers and troops of LEP Recon. Mud Person, you might just want to rethink that!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961

25th July 2008, 03:54 PM	#30
Alferd_Packer Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,221	What about the thermite?
	__________________ No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post

25th July 2008, 04:32 PM	#31
moon1969 Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,288	JFK only got what he deserved for supporting the Diem Coup and starting the Vietnam war. JFK was not god and he was not a hero. Diem and the people in South Vietnam are the real heroes.