Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death'

MaGZ · 13th July 2008, 04:50 AM

Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death'

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?

Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism?

Lensman · 13th July 2008, 08:04 AM

Why do you think it's impossible to inject a fluid into someone's heart?

Or to operate on someone with anesthesia? Many years ago, operations were routinely performed sans anesthetics - because they hadn't yet been invented.

Surgeons were famed for the speed with which they could amputate a limb to reduce the effects of post operative shock - they had no trouble removing a leg or arm in just a few seconds.

applecorped · 13th July 2008, 08:45 AM

http://remember.org/educate/medexp.html

Magz, what is your opinion?

moon1969 · 13th July 2008, 02:07 PM

So what do you think about Josef Mengele?

~enigma~ · 13th July 2008, 02:51 PM

Someone want to tell me what the CT is please.

Cl1mh4224rd · 13th July 2008, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Someone want to tell me what the CT is please.

I'm guessing the usual Holocaust denial. MaGZ seems to be implying that Aribert "Dr. Death" Heim didn't actually do the things he's been accused of doing, which means there's some sort of conspiracy to sully this good doctor's name.

* Cl1mh4224rd spits.

fullflavormenthol · 13th July 2008, 04:44 PM

Well the major flaw in the Holocaust Denier's argument is the fact that the Nazis kept records of what they did, and we know what happened because they recorded all the gory details.

~enigma~ · 13th July 2008, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

I'm guessing the usual Holocaust denial. MaGZ seems to be implying that Aribert "Dr. Death" Heim didn't actually do the things he's been accused of doing, which means there's some sort of conspiracy to sully this good doctor's name.

* Cl1mh4224rd;3857999 spits.

So he is a bad holocaust denier pussyfooting around his point. Bet the rest of his Aryan nation buddies call him a wimp...

fuelair · 13th July 2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death'

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?

Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism?

WWII Japanese did such - Russians actually tried the slime. Found out two weeks ago the us only did that to the Nazis - took in the Japanese doctors who did that and more.

US saved the Japanese according to appropriate reports because the US wanted the information on diseases uncontrolled and conditions that could affect soldiers in the field - uncontrolled though the US would never itself do that type of experiment. I'll leave unsaid (but I bet it's worse than whatever you think it is) what I think should have been done to both the Japanese and the nazis who did these things.

chillzero · 15th July 2008, 04:16 AM

Off topic posts removed, and thread moved to Social Issues, as there is no CT under discussion.

Edit - returned to CT after discussion. Holocaust denial is a CT.

Posted By:chillzero

MG1962 · 15th July 2008, 04:31 AM

The sad part was some of the lines of research they did was actually extremely useful, the horror was they took the experiments well beyond the ability of a human to survive....just too see what would happen

Sword_Of_Truth · 15th July 2008, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death'

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?

Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism?

My last post got sent to AAH so I'm going to reword it in a manner that hopefully the mods will accept.

You've made it quite clear that you dislike jews and feel that they should not receive the same rights as everyone else in our society.

Why do you feel then, that someone disliking them to the point of doing violence to them is so unbelievable?

MaGZ · 15th July 2008, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

Someone want to tell me what the CT is please.

I posted this in current events since it was a recent news story; the moderators move it here. Ask them.

~enigma~ · 15th July 2008, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I posted this in current events since it was a recent news story; the moderators move it here. Ask them.

No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing?

MaGZ · 15th July 2008, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by fullflavormenthol

Well the major flaw in the Holocaust Denier's argument is the fact that the Nazis kept records of what they did, and we know what happened because they recorded all the gory details.

If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims.

Safe-Keeper · 15th July 2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

The sad part was some of the lines of research they did was actually extremely useful

Actually, yes. For example, they did some horrific experiments in which they immersed people in ice-cold water until they were close to freezing to death - or actually died. The knowledge they gained from this was actually put to use on the East Front, and may have saved soldiers' lives. Admittedly "bad guys'" lives, but still.

This of course doesn't excuse it, though.

Quote:

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?

So in other words, you're no different from the other conspiracy theorists who all dismiss real-life events because they're too big for their minds to handle.

I don't believe that a small team of 29 operatives could penetrate into the US, evade detection by the FBI, and dodge the US military's net of AAA, Surface-to-Air missiles and jet fighters to slaughter 3000 innocents by taking down a major Manhattan landmark and damage the Pentagon by the use of hijacked airliners.

I don't believe humans, using a crude, primitive vehicle, could leave the Earth's atmosphere, cross the vast distance to the Moon, land safely and disembark their craft, and then return to orbit and cross the distance again, for then to land safely on Earth.

I can't comprehend that Elvis Presley, who was so much more than an ordinary human being, could actually have died on the toilet from an overdose like some backwater slum kid. It is far more likely that he went into hiding for some obscure reason.

And so on and so forth. The event is too big for you to handle, so you readily accept the alternative explanation, especially if it gives you a pat on the back by casting you in a good light as the man who found the truth - and portrays your enemies in an unfavorable light.

Quote:

If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims.

He calls your claim that the Holocaust didn't happen a conspiracy theory, so he must doubt the Holocaust happened?

MagZ, I don't know how things work in Holocaustdenierburg, but around here we don't call statements conspiracy theories if we believe them to be true

MaGZ · 15th July 2008, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing?

I did not post it under Conspiracy Theories. I posted it under Current Events and got a warning from the moderators and a notice it was being move to Conspiracy Theories. A day or so later the moderator said it was being moved back to Current Events and then back here?

?????

Why not move it to History?

chillzero · 15th July 2008, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing?

Take any further discussion to Forum Mgt please.
A different mod had previously moved it to CT from social issues. I felt it was a social issue, however it's more usual for holocaust denial threads to be placed in CT so I undid my action that had reversed another mod's once I was aware.

Darat · 15th July 2008, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims.

As Admin:

I can assure you that not one of the JREF Moderating Team shares your revolting and sickening bigotry that leads you to hold such uncivilised views about other human beings.

As a general note this thread is in this section as the opening post was obviously nothing more than an attempt by MaGZ to spread his or her unsupportable fantasy of "Holocaust denial" and that denial is of course nothing more than a conspiracy theory, one usually arising from a rabid hatred of people who happen to be of the Jewish religion.

(Please note any further comments regarding the moderating of this Forum should be made in the the correct section i.e. Forum Management.)

Drudgewire · 15th July 2008, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by chillzero

Off topic posts removed

Posted By:chillzero

Sorry 'bout that.

After volatile and I had been going at it tooth and nail in the gun thread, it was nice to have a little friendly fun with each other... and if there was any thread it seemed harmless enough, it would be an otherwise disgusting Holocaust denial one.

I mean obviously it was going to wind up in AAH, but it was fun while it lasted and hope it didn't put too much of a strain on the fine mod team here.

~enigma~ · 15th July 2008, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I did not post it under Conspiracy Theories. I posted it under Current Events and got a warning from the moderators and a notice it was being move to Conspiracy Theories. A day or so later the moderator said it was being moved back to Current Events and then back here?

?????

Why not move it to History?

Holocaust denial to history????

How about they make a subforum called idiocy and put it there...

~enigma~ · 15th July 2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by chillzero

Take any further discussion to Forum Mgt please.
A different mod had previously moved it to CT from social issues. I felt it was a social issue, however it's more usual for holocaust denial threads to be placed in CT so I undid my action that had reversed another mod's once I was aware.

Was totally unaware. All I know is this thread just popped up 7/13 with no replies. In hindsight, it was better off that way.

MG1962 · 15th July 2008, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Actually, yes. For example, they did some horrific experiments in which they immersed people in ice-cold water until they were close to freezing to death - or actually died. The knowledge they gained from this was actually put to use on the East Front, and may have saved soldiers' lives. Admittedly "bad guys'" lives, but still.

This of course doesn't excuse it, though.

And that was my point - the tests they ran on surviving in high altitude was ground breaking and used by the US and others after the war to find ways to equip pilots.

The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil

~enigma~ · 15th July 2008, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by MG1962

The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil

So forced experimental surgery is a good thing?

Kthulhut Fhtagn · 15th July 2008, 02:26 PM

Why should I be skeptical of it? It's not like anyone has ever given me reason to be skeptical of Dr. Death's wrong-doings.

GreNME · 15th July 2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death'

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?

Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism?

If you are truly so skeptical, then what crimes was Heim running from in the first place? Nonexistent ones?

volatile · 16th July 2008, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

Sorry 'bout that.

After volatile and I had been going at it tooth and nail in the gun thread, it was nice to have a little friendly fun with each other... and if there was any thread it seemed harmless enough, it would be an otherwise disgusting Holocaust denial one.

I mean obviously it was going to wind up in AAH, but it was fun while it lasted and hope it didn't put too much of a strain on the fine mod team here.

Seconded. My apologies.

You're a fun guy, Drudge. I'm sure I'd like a beer with you. You're just a little over-fond of dangerous weapons for my liking, that's all...

Drudgewire · 16th July 2008, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by volatile

Seconded. My apologies.

You're a fun guy, Drudge. I'm sure I'd like a beer with you. You're just a little over-fond of dangerous weapons for my liking, that's all...

1st one is on me.

jaydeehess · 16th July 2008, 09:29 AM

The Nazi's were good at recording what they did so we know a great deal about what they did. Stalin's Russia was much the same. There are detailed records of who was shipped to the Gulag's. One docuement lists the exact number of ethnic Koreans he sent to the north to work IIRC on the trans-Russian railroad as slave labour. (exact number escapes me, it was over 170,000)

Fact is that Stalin was the twentieth century's first brutal dictator and the excesses of Nazi Germany or the Imperial Japanese were learned from the example that Stalin set. The later two were just more dedicated to exterminating their perceived enemies. Stalin wanted the labour of slaves and who better than any non-Russian that he could round up to do it?

Sword_Of_Truth · 16th July 2008, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Fact is that Stalin was the twentieth century's first brutal dictator and the excesses of Nazi Germany or the Imperial Japanese were learned from the example that Stalin set. The later two were just more dedicated to exterminating their perceived enemies. Stalin wanted the labour of slaves and who better than any non-Russian that he could round up to do it?

The claim that Hitler learned his brutality from Stalin is one I've never heard before. I'm no fan of either Soviet Socialism or Nationalist Socialism so it makes little difference to me, but if you have a source for this I'd like to see it.

MG1962 · 16th July 2008, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

So forced experimental surgery is a good thing?

My original post said 'Some' lines of research, not all. There is a very big difference.

Loss Leader · 16th July 2008, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by ~enigma~

So forced experimental surgery is a good thing?

False dichotomy.

Everything that has happened, led us to where we are today.

~enigma~ · 16th July 2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by MG1962

My original post said 'Some' lines of research, not all. There is a very big difference.

You said

Originally Posted by MG1962

The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil

Which means had they ended the experiments before human tolerance waned, they were good. Sorry, it's only in Star Trek where the ends justify the means.

~enigma~ · 16th July 2008, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

False dichotomy.

Everything that has happened, led us to where we are today.

Don't know if you read what I was responding too...

jaydeehess · 16th July 2008, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth

The claim that Hitler learned his brutality from Stalin is one I've never heard before. I'm no fan of either Soviet Socialism or Nationalist Socialism so it makes little difference to me, but if you have a source for this I'd like to see it.

Perhaps not 'learned' as in Stalin sat down and conversed with Hitler on the fine points of ethnic cleansing but more along the lines of Hitler knowing that it was being done in Russia.

My source was a series on PBS titled , IIRC, "World of War" Very interesting watch and fairly detailed. I had not known for instance , that in the 1930's Jews were more integrated into German society than they were in any other European country. Something like half of all marriages where at least one partner was Jewish were mixed religion marriages. He makes the point that Judaism in Germany was in danger of fading away on its own when Hitler came to power.

As to the brutal oppression part, Stalin had years head start on both the Germans and the Japanese.

I will have to try and catch it again. I believe that it is in several parts. My wife absolutly hates such docuementaries though so I get to watch them a bit at a time

jaydeehess · 16th July 2008, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by MG1962

And that was my point - the tests they ran on surviving in high altitude was ground breaking and used by the US and others after the war to find ways to equip pilots.

The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil

Well, that and the fact that the experimentees were not volunteers but captives being tortured to death to see at what point that death happens.

13th July 2008, 04:50 AM	#1
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death' Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death' http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts? Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism?
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

13th July 2008, 08:04 AM	#2
Lensman Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Caerphilly Posts: 1,411	Why do you think it's impossible to inject a fluid into someone's heart? Or to operate on someone with anesthesia? Many years ago, operations were routinely performed sans anesthetics - because they hadn't yet been invented. Surgeons were famed for the speed with which they could amputate a limb to reduce the effects of post operative shock - they had no trouble removing a leg or arm in just a few seconds.
	__________________ When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty. I have learned that if you upset your wife, she nags you. If you upset her even more you get the silent treatment. Don't you think it's worth the extra effort?

13th July 2008, 04:44 PM	#7
fullflavormenthol Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,417	Well the major flaw in the Holocaust Denier's argument is the fact that the Nazis kept records of what they did, and we know what happened because they recorded all the gory details.
	__________________ "Burning people! He says what we're all thinking!" -GLaDOS

13th July 2008, 06:41 PM	#9
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by MaGZ Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death' http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts? Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism? WWII Japanese did such - Russians actually tried the slime. Found out two weeks ago the us only did that to the Nazis - took in the Japanese doctors who did that and more. US saved the Japanese according to appropriate reports because the US wanted the information on diseases uncontrolled and conditions that could affect soldiers in the field - uncontrolled though the US would never itself do that type of experiment. I'll leave unsaid (but I bet it's worse than whatever you think it is) what I think should have been done to both the Japanese and the nazis who did these things.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961

15th July 2008, 12:47 PM	#13
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Someone want to tell me what the CT is please. I posted this in current events since it was a recent news story; the moderators move it here. Ask them.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

13th July 2008, 08:45 AM	#3
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,680	http://remember.org/educate/medexp.html Magz, what is your opinion?

13th July 2008, 02:07 PM	#4
moon1969 Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,288	So what do you think about Josef Mengele?

13th July 2008, 02:51 PM	#5
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Someone want to tell me what the CT is please.

13th July 2008, 04:06 PM	#6
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Someone want to tell me what the CT is please. I'm guessing the usual Holocaust denial. MaGZ seems to be implying that Aribert "Dr. Death" Heim didn't actually do the things he's been accused of doing, which means there's some sort of conspiracy to sully this good doctor's name. * Cl1mh4224rd spits.

13th July 2008, 04:46 PM	#8
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd I'm guessing the usual Holocaust denial. MaGZ seems to be implying that Aribert "Dr. Death" Heim didn't actually do the things he's been accused of doing, which means there's some sort of conspiracy to sully this good doctor's name. * Cl1mh4224rd;3857999 spits. So he is a bad holocaust denier pussyfooting around his point. Bet the rest of his Aryan nation buddies call him a wimp...

15th July 2008, 04:31 AM	#11
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	The sad part was some of the lines of research they did was actually extremely useful, the horror was they took the experiments well beyond the ability of a human to survive....just too see what would happen

15th July 2008, 12:42 PM	#12
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Originally Posted by MaGZ Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death' http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts? Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism? My last post got sent to AAH so I'm going to reword it in a manner that hopefully the mods will accept. You've made it quite clear that you dislike jews and feel that they should not receive the same rights as everyone else in our society. Why do you feel then, that someone disliking them to the point of doing violence to them is so unbelievable?

15th July 2008, 12:51 PM	#14
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by MaGZ I posted this in current events since it was a recent news story; the moderators move it here. Ask them. No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing?

15th July 2008, 12:53 PM	#15
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by fullflavormenthol Well the major flaw in the Holocaust Denier's argument is the fact that the Nazis kept records of what they did, and we know what happened because they recorded all the gory details. If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

15th July 2008, 12:54 PM	#16
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,119	Quote: The sad part was some of the lines of research they did was actually extremely useful Actually, yes. For example, they did some horrific experiments in which they immersed people in ice-cold water until they were close to freezing to death - or actually died. The knowledge they gained from this was actually put to use on the East Front, and may have saved soldiers' lives. Admittedly "bad guys'" lives, but still. This of course doesn't excuse it, though. Quote: I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts? So in other words, you're no different from the other conspiracy theorists who all dismiss real-life events because they're too big for their minds to handle. I don't believe that a small team of 29 operatives could penetrate into the US, evade detection by the FBI, and dodge the US military's net of AAA, Surface-to-Air missiles and jet fighters to slaughter 3000 innocents by taking down a major Manhattan landmark and damage the Pentagon by the use of hijacked airliners. I don't believe humans, using a crude, primitive vehicle, could leave the Earth's atmosphere, cross the vast distance to the Moon, land safely and disembark their craft, and then return to orbit and cross the distance again, for then to land safely on Earth. I can't comprehend that Elvis Presley, who was so much more than an ordinary human being, could actually have died on the toilet from an overdose like some backwater slum kid. It is far more likely that he went into hiding for some obscure reason. And so on and so forth. The event is too big for you to handle, so you readily accept the alternative explanation, especially if it gives you a pat on the back by casting you in a good light as the man who found the truth - and portrays your enemies in an unfavorable light. Quote: If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims. He calls your claim that the Holocaust didn't happen a conspiracy theory, so he must doubt the Holocaust happened? MagZ, I don't know how things work in Holocaustdenierburg, but around here we don't call statements conspiracy theories if we believe them to be true
	Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 15th July 2008 at 01:06 PM.

15th July 2008, 01:10 PM	#17
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing? I did not post it under Conspiracy Theories. I posted it under Current Events and got a warning from the moderators and a notice it was being move to Conspiracy Theories. A day or so later the moderator said it was being moved back to Current Events and then back here? ????? Why not move it to History?
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

15th July 2008, 01:10 PM	#18
chillzero Domestic Godless Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Top of the world, ma! Posts: 15,235	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing? Take any further discussion to Forum Mgt please. A different mod had previously moved it to CT from social issues. I felt it was a social issue, however it's more usual for holocaust denial threads to be placed in CT so I undid my action that had reversed another mod's once I was aware.

15th July 2008, 01:18 PM	#19
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Originally Posted by MaGZ If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims. As Admin: I can assure you that not one of the JREF Moderating Team shares your revolting and sickening bigotry that leads you to hold such uncivilised views about other human beings. As a general note this thread is in this section as the opening post was obviously nothing more than an attempt by MaGZ to spread his or her unsupportable fantasy of "Holocaust denial" and that denial is of course nothing more than a conspiracy theory, one usually arising from a rabid hatred of people who happen to be of the Jewish religion. (Please note any further comments regarding the moderating of this Forum should be made in the the correct section i.e. Forum Management.)
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

15th July 2008, 02:01 PM	#21
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by MaGZ I did not post it under Conspiracy Theories. I posted it under Current Events and got a warning from the moderators and a notice it was being move to Conspiracy Theories. A day or so later the moderator said it was being moved back to Current Events and then back here? ????? Why not move it to History? Holocaust denial to history???? How about they make a subforum called idiocy and put it there...

15th July 2008, 02:04 PM	#22
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by chillzero Take any further discussion to Forum Mgt please. A different mod had previously moved it to CT from social issues. I felt it was a social issue, however it's more usual for holocaust denial threads to be placed in CT so I undid my action that had reversed another mod's once I was aware. Was totally unaware. All I know is this thread just popped up 7/13 with no replies. In hindsight, it was better off that way.

15th July 2008, 02:11 PM	#23
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper Actually, yes. For example, they did some horrific experiments in which they immersed people in ice-cold water until they were close to freezing to death - or actually died. The knowledge they gained from this was actually put to use on the East Front, and may have saved soldiers' lives. Admittedly "bad guys'" lives, but still. This of course doesn't excuse it, though. And that was my point - the tests they ran on surviving in high altitude was ground breaking and used by the US and others after the war to find ways to equip pilots. The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil

15th July 2008, 02:20 PM	#24
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by MG1962 The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil So forced experimental surgery is a good thing?

15th July 2008, 02:26 PM	#25
Kthulhut Fhtagn Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Somewhere in time and space... Posts: 1,939	Why should I be skeptical of it? It's not like anyone has ever given me reason to be skeptical of Dr. Death's wrong-doings.

15th July 2008, 03:38 PM	#26
GreNME Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 8,283	Originally Posted by MaGZ Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death' http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2008071...s-4bdc673.html I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts? Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism? If you are truly so skeptical, then what crimes was Heim running from in the first place? Nonexistent ones?
	__________________ _{Like love, criminals will always find a way. -- foxholeatheist The kind of pacifism I endorse is brought about by eliminating one enemy combatant at a time.-- JoeyDonuts}

16th July 2008, 04:27 AM	#27
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Uncanny Valley Posts: 6,730	Originally Posted by Drudgewire Sorry 'bout that. After volatile and I had been going at it tooth and nail in the gun thread, it was nice to have a little friendly fun with each other... and if there was any thread it seemed harmless enough, it would be an otherwise disgusting Holocaust denial one. I mean obviously it was going to wind up in AAH, but it was fun while it lasted and hope it didn't put too much of a strain on the fine mod team here. Seconded. My apologies. You're a fun guy, Drudge. I'm sure I'd like a beer with you. You're just a little over-fond of dangerous weapons for my liking, that's all...
	__________________ - ""My tribe has a saying: 'If you're bleeding, look for a man with scars'" - Leela, Doctor Who 'Robots of Death'.

16th July 2008, 04:40 AM	#28
Drudgewire Critical Doofus Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,434	Originally Posted by volatile Seconded. My apologies. You're a fun guy, Drudge. I'm sure I'd like a beer with you. You're just a little over-fond of dangerous weapons for my liking, that's all... 1st one is on me.
	__________________ "You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet

16th July 2008, 09:29 AM	#29
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,822	The Nazi's were good at recording what they did so we know a great deal about what they did. Stalin's Russia was much the same. There are detailed records of who was shipped to the Gulag's. One docuement lists the exact number of ethnic Koreans he sent to the north to work IIRC on the trans-Russian railroad as slave labour. (exact number escapes me, it was over 170,000) Fact is that Stalin was the twentieth century's first brutal dictator and the excesses of Nazi Germany or the Imperial Japanese were learned from the example that Stalin set. The later two were just more dedicated to exterminating their perceived enemies. Stalin wanted the labour of slaves and who better than any non-Russian that he could round up to do it?

16th July 2008, 01:01 PM	#30
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Originally Posted by jaydeehess Fact is that Stalin was the twentieth century's first brutal dictator and the excesses of Nazi Germany or the Imperial Japanese were learned from the example that Stalin set. The later two were just more dedicated to exterminating their perceived enemies. Stalin wanted the labour of slaves and who better than any non-Russian that he could round up to do it? The claim that Hitler learned his brutality from Stalin is one I've never heard before. I'm no fan of either Soviet Socialism or Nationalist Socialism so it makes little difference to me, but if you have a source for this I'd like to see it.

16th July 2008, 02:00 PM	#31
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ So forced experimental surgery is a good thing? My original post said 'Some' lines of research, not all. There is a very big difference.

16th July 2008, 02:17 PM	#32
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	Originally Posted by ~enigma~ So forced experimental surgery is a good thing? False dichotomy. Everything that has happened, led us to where we are today.
	__________________ Follow me on Twitter! @LossLeader This force is receiving all the right to vote through the use of magic. - Miernik Wieslaw <NEW> VOTE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE <NEW>

16th July 2008, 02:45 PM	#33
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by MG1962 My original post said 'Some' lines of research, not all. There is a very big difference. You said Originally Posted by MG1962 The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil Which means had they ended the experiments before human tolerance waned, they were good. Sorry, it's only in Star Trek where the ends justify the means.

16th July 2008, 02:46 PM	#34
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by Loss Leader False dichotomy. Everything that has happened, led us to where we are today. Don't know if you read what I was responding too...

16th July 2008, 03:34 PM	#35
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,822	Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth The claim that Hitler learned his brutality from Stalin is one I've never heard before. I'm no fan of either Soviet Socialism or Nationalist Socialism so it makes little difference to me, but if you have a source for this I'd like to see it. Perhaps not 'learned' as in Stalin sat down and conversed with Hitler on the fine points of ethnic cleansing but more along the lines of Hitler knowing that it was being done in Russia. My source was a series on PBS titled , IIRC, "World of War" Very interesting watch and fairly detailed. I had not known for instance , that in the 1930's Jews were more integrated into German society than they were in any other European country. Something like half of all marriages where at least one partner was Jewish were mixed religion marriages. He makes the point that Judaism in Germany was in danger of fading away on its own when Hitler came to power. As to the brutal oppression part, Stalin had years head start on both the Germans and the Japanese. I will have to try and catch it again. I believe that it is in several parts. My wife absolutly hates such docuementaries though so I get to watch them a bit at a time

16th July 2008, 03:39 PM	#36
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,822	Originally Posted by MG1962 And that was my point - the tests they ran on surviving in high altitude was ground breaking and used by the US and others after the war to find ways to equip pilots. The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil Well, that and the fact that the experimentees were not volunteers but captives being tortured to death to see at what point that death happens.