I finally figured out Penn & Teller's bullet illusion...

BenBurch · 25th August 2008, 10:34 AM

...call me dense, but I had to see it live TWICE to figure out how the exchange happened.

volatile · 25th August 2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

...call me dense, but I had to see it live TWICE to figure out how the exchange happened.

I can't for the life of me work it out. It's one of the best tricks I've ever seen...

BenBurch · 25th August 2008, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by volatile

I can't for the life of me work it out. It's one of the best tricks I've ever seen...

I'd tell you but that would spoil it. Its a great illusion. I had to consciously NOT watch it to see how it was done.

Wides · 28th August 2008, 02:27 PM

i just youtube'd it, and i think i know how.

Ranb · 28th August 2008, 02:58 PM

I noticed that Penn did not allow the participants to hold the cartridges after the bullets were marked. I had to watch it more than twice before I figured it out.

I can catch a bullet in my mouth too, as long I put it in my mouth with my hand.

Ranb

The Central Scrutinizer · 28th August 2008, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by volatile

I can't for the life of me work it out. It's one of the best tricks I've ever seen...

I spoke to Jamy Ian Swiss about the bullet catch at TAM 4 (I think. It might have been 5. Or 3. ). We were discussing magic tricks, and he said that most magicians know how most magic tricks are done. Or at least one of the many ways that a given trick can be done. However, he went on to say that very few magicians know how the P&T bullet catch is done. It's that good. Which leads me to believe that the OP is most likely wrong in stating that he has figured it out.

Mercutio · 28th August 2008, 09:07 PM

I... (do I have to?) ... agree with Scrut.

I have tried to figure it out, and have failed on numerous occasions. Perhaps someone else has, or perhaps not.

It is a wonderful illusion. I take P&T (and JIS)'s word for it that it is indeed an illusion.

Scrut is a bastard, but perhaps the best bastard I know. (That has nothing to do with the illusion, but I just wanted to point out that Scrut is indeed a bastard.)

yadda, yadda.

M

Ron_Tomkins · 29th August 2008, 10:44 AM

He didn't do it the easy way.

Garrette · 29th August 2008, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins

He didn't do it the easy way.

Clones and multiverses?

HeyLeroy · 29th August 2008, 04:17 PM

http://http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=73931

Ron_Tomkins · 29th August 2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Garrette

Clones and multiverses?

Oh no. None of that amateurish stuff.

wolves_skeptic · 30th August 2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I spoke to Jamy Ian Swiss about the bullet catch at TAM 4 (I think. It might have been 5. Or 3. ). We were discussing magic tricks, and he said that most magicians know how most magic tricks are done. Or at least one of the many ways that a given trick can be done. However, he went on to say that very few magicians know how the P&T bullet catch is done. It's that good. Which leads me to believe that the OP is most likely wrong in stating that he has figured it out.

This is a skeptical forum and I am skeptical. It's very easy to say on a forum which bans you actually telling us that you have worked out the trick. Doesn't mean that you have.

I did see an interview with Penn & Teller (well Penn) and he said that they have to employ five different methods to pass the bullets to each other during the trick and he said that while people may get three or four of the methods they will not get all five. I did like this description of the trick (there are no spoilers to how it's done) and I particularly like how they have managed to get the smell and rifling marks onto the bullets. However it is done it is a great trick, probably one of the best ever.

BenBurch · 30th August 2008, 03:50 AM

Well, as I cannot say how I think they did it, you are free to think I don't know. But At the very least I could now do it myself with stage setting consistent with what they have in a manner identical to how they do it.

Azrael 5 · 30th August 2008, 05:34 PM

I read somewhere the secret involved certain items they are wearing.I shall not elaborate

BillC · 30th August 2008, 11:28 PM

Yeah, the trick's quite different if performed in the nude.

Ron_Tomkins · 31st August 2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by BillC

Yeah, the trick's quite different if performed in the nude.

I think most tricks would be quite different if performed in the nude.

Cain · 31st August 2008, 07:25 PM

This trick never much appealed to me. I like tricks of the mind, but this one seems like too much of a puzzle. So I watched it again on teh Youtube and realized how much more I hate it. I guess it helps that Penn has to do the talking for both of them, but what happens if one of the audience members signing a shell casing asks, "Can I see my initials again?" Maybe it's just the video I watched, but the initials on the bullet were covered.

They walk all the way to the rear of the stage to do the whole tapping thing

, then walk all the way back into the audience so we can watch the shells loaded into the guns, then walk all the way back to the rear of the stage to put on protective gear. Protective gear they will not need.

I prefer the cups and balls with the clear cups.

The Central Scrutinizer · 31st August 2008, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

They walk all the way to the rear of the stage to do the whole tapping thing

, then walk all the way back into the audience so we can watch the shells loaded into the guns, then walk all the way back to the rear of the stage to put on protective gear. Protective gear they will not need.

Wow, I thought they were actually in danger.

Cain · 31st August 2008, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Wow, I thought they were actually in danger.

They're not; it's a trick.

logical muse · 31st August 2008, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

They're not; it's a trick.

Azrael 5 · 1st September 2008, 09:59 AM

It's a fake Teller.Ban me now.

GregHouseMD · 1st September 2008, 06:30 PM

I am a life long pistol shooter. I have shot in national level pistol chanmpionshps. I have worked as a gunsmith and I have loaded my own ammo for over 30 years.

I was in The Rio in 2003 and not only saw the show, I was on stage, on the side with Teller, when they did the magic bullet trick.

I have the bullet and case they used in the trick, or at least the ones that were marked on stage. I have the bullet Penn spit into my hand and Teller then handed me the case.

I giot no clue but I'm pretty sure it's misdirection and switching the bullet I selected for another trick bullet.

It was a great show and the neat part is, before I went on stage, my wife was selected by Teller to sit on stage holding a small fishbowl while he did some close up work with shiny pennys and goldfish is a tall round aquarium. She has the fishbowl and penny's he used in the act.

The thing to remember is "it's a trick".

BenBurch · 2nd September 2008, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by BillC

Yeah, the trick's quite different if performed in the nude.

I'd pay extra not to see it if Penn & Teller were the ones nude...

Now, on the other hand if you got the woman who does their "cut in half" trick and a similarly cute friend to do it...

Cain · 2nd September 2008, 03:22 PM

I mentioned this to someone today and he said there's an exposure video on YouTube explaining the trick step by step. The video independently confirms what I had guessed, step by step. Interestingly, there's another video identifying the 50 greatest tricks of all-time, and there's segment on this bullet catch with Penn saying "No one knows how it's done."

The trick with the coins and goldfish is fantastic, much better than the double bullet catch.

GregHouseMD · 2nd September 2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cain

I mentioned this to someone today and he said there's an exposure video on YouTube explaining the trick step by step. The video independently confirms what I had guessed, step by step. Interestingly, there's another video identifying the 50 greatest tricks of all-time, and there's segment on this bullet catch with Penn saying "No one knows how it's done."

The trick with the coins and goldfish is fantastic, much better than the double bullet catch.

Afterwards I asked my wife if she saw anything and evne just two feet from Teller's hands, she saw nothing that indicated where the fish or coins came from.

I have examine the bullet very closely, it has real groves on it from being fired. I think a stage hand fires the bullets picked out through a supressed pistol backstage and then gives the case and bullets somehow to P&T.

Suprerssed (silenced) weapons are not illegal is they are properly registered. I know a number of people with fully automatic supressed H&K MP5's and I've had the opportunity to fire them.

Ranb · 3rd September 2008, 02:13 PM

If I remember correctly, the bullet was seated far enough to cover any grooves that may have been put in place before it was seated into the case and marked by the people in the audience. Only the ogive and tip were showing. Grooves are easy to put on a bullet by pushing it through any gun barrel with a wood dowel. The brass case can be sized to allow the bullet to be seated firmly, but removed with one's teeth or a small set of pliers concealed in the magician's hand. No need to go through the silencer and recovering a bullet routine to mark it with grooves.

I have no idea how they switched the brass cases between their "magic wands"

Ranb

volatile · 3rd September 2008, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ranb

If I remember correctly, the bullet was seated far enough to cover any grooves that may have been put in place before it was seated into the case and marked by the people in the audience. Only the ogive and tip were showing. Grooves are easy to put on a bullet by pushing it through any gun barrel with a wood dowel. The brass case can be sized to allow the bullet to be seated firmly, but removed with one's teeth or a small set of pliers concealed in the magician's hand. No need to go through the silencer and recovering a bullet routine to mark it with grooves.

I have no idea how they switched the brass cases between their "magic wands"

Ranb

As Cain said, there's a YouTube version that might help with that.

Still - great trick. I watched the goldfish trick again, though, and that is really impressive.

Ashles · 3rd September 2008, 04:44 PM

As I have said in another thread, I'm not sure why people cannot just link to the YouTube video. Instead there has to be vague hints after which people have to search for it themselves.

Either it is easy to find in which case why not just link straight to it, or it is difficult to find in which case mentioning it isn't really very helpful.

I find it a bit hypocritical too - why does no-one have a problem linking to videos showing how Uri Geller does his tricks. (And before anyone replies with comments about how he claims what he does is real, it seems comparable to people not linking to explanations of Derren Brown and we know he misleads people about how his tricks are done).

Sorry but I'm just getting a bit fed up with all this protected status of magic tricks - I find how magic tricks done to be very clever and interesting and I appreciate them massively - but after I have seen them I like to know how they are done (either by working out myself or, if that fails, by explanation) - and this drip feed of information (you are allowed to know how that trick is done but not this one) a little frustrating and, to a certain extent, annoying.

It is very easy to say "I know how X was done but I'm not going to tell you" and I am surprised it is so readily accepted on a sceptical site on which paranormal trickery is analysed and exposed, especially when it sometimes uses known illusionist techniques.

GregHouseMD · 3rd September 2008, 06:00 PM

Some tricks are easy and it doesn't takemuch to figure them out.

However, when you have a really spectacular effect, it's a secret for the same reason no one knos what Ingredient X is in Coca Cola and why the two people who know the formula do not ride on the same plane.

wolves_skeptic · 3rd September 2008, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ashles

As I have said in another thread, I'm not sure why people cannot just link to the YouTube video. Instead there has to be vague hints after which people have to search for it themselves.

Either it is easy to find in which case why not just link straight to it, or it is difficult to find in which case mentioning it isn't really very helpful.

I find it a bit hypocritical too - why does no-one have a problem linking to videos showing how Uri Geller does his tricks. (And before anyone replies with comments about how he claims what he does is real, it seems comparable to people not linking to explanations of Derren Brown and we know he misleads people about how his tricks are done).

Penn and Teller tell you they do tricks. Geller claims it's a mystical force.

That's the difference and that's why Geller should be exposed.

As for Derren Brown... he's very clever. He tells you that his tricks use a mixture of magic, suggestion, psychology and showmanship. He's clever because he never tells you in what degrees those are used. He is also clever because, as he says, "He's always honest about my dishonesty."

THe fact that people see a Derren Brown trick and instantly think of some psychological illusion when it's a simple multiple out or other form of magic trick says more about those people than it does Brown.

So essentially, Brown and P&T admit they are tricks... Geller claims a mystical force. That's the difference.

Monza · 8th September 2008, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

I...However, he went on to say that very few magicians know how the P&T bullet catch is done. It's that good. Which leads me to believe that the OP is most likely wrong in stating that he has figured it out.

It's been said that one of the differences between lay people and magicians is that if a lay person figures out just part of a trick, he will feel he knows it all; if a magician figures out all but part of a trick, he will feel he doesn't know it at all.

BenBurch · 9th September 2008, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Cain

... The trick with the coins and goldfish is fantastic, much better than the double bullet catch.

That one had you fooled?

I must have been on a good sight line from it, because I could make you that box right now. Its all optics and partitions.

BenBurch · 9th September 2008, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by GregHouseMD

...
I have examine the bullet very closely, it has real groves on it from being fired. I think a stage hand fires the bullets picked out through a supressed pistol backstage and then gives the case and bullets somehow to P&T.
...

No. No need for a gun at all when you can do the same thing with a purpose-built hydraulic tool in seconds.

Ranb · 9th September 2008, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Monza

It's been said that one of the differences between lay people and magicians is that if a lay person figures out just part of a trick, he will feel he knows it all; if a magician figures out all but part of a trick, he will feel he doesn't know it at all.

Then this makes me a lay person. I watched the other video that tells how the trick was done. It looks like the person who edited in the comments has an axe to grind.

Ranb

Cain · 11th September 2008, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

That one had you fooled?

I must have been on a good sight line from it, because I could make you that box right now. Its all optics and partitions.

Pssssht. The standard for a trick is not that it must fool me. That can be a great feeling. The fish bowl for Miser's Dream followed by a goldfish production. It's funny, it's visual, it's magical (plus there's not a lot of Penn in it). My strongest objection is that uses animals (a recent TIMES (London) article claims goldfish are as smart as mice).

Who cares if the bullet trick is more difficult to figure out. I can do a card trick based on a stack of principles -- memorization, floating key card, and clocking -- but, if presented right, spectators will remember the one where I changed an indifferent card to their selection in their own hands. It's all about clarity of effect, and this one is so clear that it takes virtually no words.

UnrepentantSinner · 11th September 2008, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by Garrette

Clones and multiverses?

I thought I had figured it out until I remembered they don't use curtains or smoke.

joesixpack · 12th September 2008, 09:21 PM

Well, I'm no magician, but I figured out at least part of it just watching the video once.

Dumb All Over · 13th September 2008, 01:56 PM

I love the Bullet Catch. What a great trick. In descriptions from others, I've seen many say that a confederate backstage is watching the live video and then tries to re-create the marks drawn on the bullet. I don't think so. I'm convinced the bullets that come out of the mouths are the very same ones the audience marked up.

BenBurch · 13th September 2008, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dumb All Over

I love the Bullet Catch. What a great trick. In descriptions from others, I've seen many say that a confederate backstage is watching the live video and then tries to re-create the marks drawn on the bullet. I don't think so. I'm convinced the bullets that come out of the mouths are the very same ones the audience marked up.

Of course they are.

Yes, the backstage crew is involved, though.

If you COULD do this on a bare stage with no curtains and nothing at the wings you would be doing a different illusion.

Dumb All Over · 13th September 2008, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Of course they are.

And isn't it a beautiful thing? The fact they are the same makes the whole trick that much better.

Lovely magic.

25th August 2008, 10:34 AM	#1
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	I finally figured out Penn & Teller's bullet illusion... ...call me dense, but I had to see it live TWICE to figure out how the exchange happened.
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25th August 2008, 10:36 AM	#2
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Uncanny Valley Posts: 6,730	Originally Posted by BenBurch ...call me dense, but I had to see it live TWICE to figure out how the exchange happened. I can't for the life of me work it out. It's one of the best tricks I've ever seen...
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25th August 2008, 10:47 AM	#3
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by volatile I can't for the life of me work it out. It's one of the best tricks I've ever seen... I'd tell you but that would spoil it. Its a great illusion. I had to consciously NOT watch it to see how it was done.
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28th August 2008, 02:27 PM	#4
Wides Scholar Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 122	i just youtube'd it, and i think i know how.
Wides Scholar Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 122

28th August 2008, 08:51 PM	#6
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,265	Originally Posted by volatile I can't for the life of me work it out. It's one of the best tricks I've ever seen... I spoke to Jamy Ian Swiss about the bullet catch at TAM 4 (I think. It might have been 5. Or 3. ). We were discussing magic tricks, and he said that most magicians know how most magic tricks are done. Or at least one of the many ways that a given trick can be done. However, he went on to say that *very few* magicians know how the P&T bullet catch is done. It's that good. Which leads me to believe that the OP is most likely wrong in stating that he has figured it out.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

28th August 2008, 02:58 PM	#5
Ranb Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 4,096	I noticed that Penn did not allow the participants to hold the cartridges after the bullets were marked. I had to watch it more than twice before I figured it out. I can catch a bullet in my mouth too, as long I put it in my mouth with my hand. Ranb

28th August 2008, 09:07 PM	#7
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,325	I... (do I have to?) ... agree with Scrut. I have tried to figure it out, and have failed on numerous occasions. Perhaps someone else has, or perhaps not. It is a wonderful illusion. I take P&T (and JIS)'s word for it that it is indeed an illusion. Scrut is a bastard, but perhaps the best bastard I know. (That has nothing to do with the illusion, but I just wanted to point out that Scrut is indeed a bastard.) yadda, yadda. M
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29th August 2008, 10:44 AM	#8
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 31,996	He didn't do it the easy way.

29th August 2008, 11:25 AM	#9
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,540	Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins He didn't do it the easy way. Clones and multiverses?
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29th August 2008, 04:17 PM	#10
HeyLeroy Vegan Cannibal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Going off the rails on the Crazy Train. Posts: 5,565	http://http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=73931
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29th August 2008, 08:01 PM	#11
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 31,996	Originally Posted by Garrette Clones and multiverses? Oh no. None of that amateurish stuff.

30th August 2008, 01:01 AM	#12
wolves_skeptic Student Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 27	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I spoke to Jamy Ian Swiss about the bullet catch at TAM 4 (I think. It might have been 5. Or 3. ). We were discussing magic tricks, and he said that most magicians know how most magic tricks are done. Or at least one of the many ways that a given trick can be done. However, he went on to say that *very few* magicians know how the P&T bullet catch is done. It's that good. Which leads me to believe that the OP is most likely wrong in stating that he has figured it out. This is a skeptical forum and I am skeptical. It's very easy to say on a forum which bans you actually telling us that you have worked out the trick. Doesn't mean that you have. I did see an interview with Penn & Teller (well Penn) and he said that they have to employ five different methods to pass the bullets to each other during the trick and he said that while people may get three or four of the methods they will not get all five. I did like this description of the trick (there are no spoilers to how it's done) and I particularly like how they have managed to get the smell and rifling marks onto the bullets. However it is done it is a great trick, probably one of the best ever.
wolves_skeptic Student Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 27

30th August 2008, 03:50 AM	#13
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Well, as I cannot say how I think they did it, you are free to think I don't know. But At the very least I could now do it myself with stage setting consistent with what they have in a manner identical to how they do it.
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30th August 2008, 05:34 PM	#14
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 5,029	I read somewhere the secret involved certain items they are wearing.I shall not elaborate
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown

30th August 2008, 11:28 PM	#15
BillC Bazooka Joe Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,035	Yeah, the trick's quite different if performed in the nude.
BillC Bazooka Joe Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,035	__________________ "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams "If homeopathy works, then obviously the less you use it, the stronger it gets. So the best way to apply homeopathy is to not use it at all." - Phil Plait Do you want to know about Sylvia Browne?

31st August 2008, 04:35 PM	#16
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 31,996	Originally Posted by BillC Yeah, the trick's quite different if performed in the nude. I think most tricks would be quite different if performed in the nude.

31st August 2008, 07:25 PM	#17
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,934	This trick never much appealed to me. I like tricks of the mind, but this one seems like too much of a puzzle. So I watched it again on teh Youtube and realized how much more I hate it. I guess it helps that Penn has to do the talking for both of them, but what happens if one of the audience members signing a shell casing asks, "Can I see my initials again?" Maybe it's just the video I watched, but the initials on the bullet were covered. They walk all the way to the rear of the stage to do the whole tapping thing , then walk all the way back into the audience so we can watch the shells loaded into the guns, then walk all the way back to the rear of the stage to put on protective gear. Protective gear they will not need. I prefer the cups and balls with the clear cups.
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31st August 2008, 08:27 PM	#18
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,265	Originally Posted by Cain They walk all the way to the rear of the stage to do the whole tapping thing , then walk all the way back into the audience so we can watch the shells loaded into the guns, then walk all the way back to the rear of the stage to put on protective gear. Protective gear they will not need. Wow, I thought they were actually in danger.
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31st August 2008, 11:15 PM	#19
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,934	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Wow, I thought they were actually in danger. They're not; it's a trick.
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31st August 2008, 11:31 PM	#20
logical muse LogMu Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,082	Originally Posted by Cain They're not; it's a trick.
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1st September 2008, 09:59 AM	#21
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 5,029	It's a fake Teller.Ban me now.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown

1st September 2008, 06:30 PM	#22
GregHouseMD Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 334	I am a life long pistol shooter. I have shot in national level pistol chanmpionshps. I have worked as a gunsmith and I have loaded my own ammo for over 30 years. I was in The Rio in 2003 and not only saw the show, I was on stage, on the side with Teller, when they did the magic bullet trick. I have the bullet and case they used in the trick, or at least the ones that were marked on stage. I have the bullet Penn spit into my hand and Teller then handed me the case. I giot no clue but I'm pretty sure it's misdirection and switching the bullet I selected for another trick bullet. It was a great show and the neat part is, before I went on stage, my wife was selected by Teller to sit on stage holding a small fishbowl while he did some close up work with shiny pennys and goldfish is a tall round aquarium. She has the fishbowl and penny's he used in the act. The thing to remember is "it's a trick".

2nd September 2008, 09:26 AM	#23
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by BillC Yeah, the trick's quite different if performed in the nude. I'd pay extra not to see it if Penn & Teller were the ones nude... Now, on the other hand if you got the woman who does their "cut in half" trick and a similarly cute friend to do it...
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2nd September 2008, 03:22 PM	#24
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,934	I mentioned this to someone today and he said there's an exposure video on YouTube explaining the trick step by step. The video independently confirms what I had guessed, step by step. Interestingly, there's another video identifying the 50 greatest tricks of all-time, and there's segment on this bullet catch with Penn saying "No one knows how it's done." The trick with the coins and goldfish is fantastic, much better than the double bullet catch.
	__________________ *Arrested Development* is coming back! Michael (to GOB): Get rid of the Seaward. Lucille: I’ll leave when I’m good and ready.

2nd September 2008, 03:36 PM	#25
GregHouseMD Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 334	Originally Posted by Cain I mentioned this to someone today and he said there's an exposure video on YouTube explaining the trick step by step. The video independently confirms what I had guessed, step by step. Interestingly, there's another video identifying the 50 greatest tricks of all-time, and there's segment on this bullet catch with Penn saying "No one knows how it's done." The trick with the coins and goldfish is fantastic, much better than the double bullet catch. Afterwards I asked my wife if she saw anything and evne just two feet from Teller's hands, she saw nothing that indicated where the fish or coins came from. I have examine the bullet very closely, it has real groves on it from being fired. I think a stage hand fires the bullets picked out through a supressed pistol backstage and then gives the case and bullets somehow to P&T. Suprerssed (silenced) weapons are not illegal is they are properly registered. I know a number of people with fully automatic supressed H&K MP5's and I've had the opportunity to fire them.

3rd September 2008, 02:13 PM	#26
Ranb Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 4,096	If I remember correctly, the bullet was seated far enough to cover any grooves that may have been put in place before it was seated into the case and marked by the people in the audience. Only the ogive and tip were showing. Grooves are easy to put on a bullet by pushing it through any gun barrel with a wood dowel. The brass case can be sized to allow the bullet to be seated firmly, but removed with one's teeth or a small set of pliers concealed in the magician's hand. No need to go through the silencer and recovering a bullet routine to mark it with grooves. I have no idea how they switched the brass cases between their "magic wands" Ranb

3rd September 2008, 03:08 PM	#27
volatile Scholar and a Gentleman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Uncanny Valley Posts: 6,730	Originally Posted by Ranb If I remember correctly, the bullet was seated far enough to cover any grooves that may have been put in place before it was seated into the case and marked by the people in the audience. Only the ogive and tip were showing. Grooves are easy to put on a bullet by pushing it through any gun barrel with a wood dowel. The brass case can be sized to allow the bullet to be seated firmly, but removed with one's teeth or a small set of pliers concealed in the magician's hand. No need to go through the silencer and recovering a bullet routine to mark it with grooves. I have no idea how they switched the brass cases between their "magic wands" Ranb As Cain said, there's a YouTube version that might help with that. Still - great trick. I watched the goldfish trick again, though, and that is really impressive.
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3rd September 2008, 04:44 PM	#28
Ashles Pith Artist Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The '80s Posts: 8,711	As I have said in another thread, I'm not sure why people cannot just link to the YouTube video. Instead there has to be vague hints after which people have to search for it themselves. Either it is easy to find in which case why not just link straight to it, or it is difficult to find in which case mentioning it isn't really very helpful. I find it a bit hypocritical too - why does no-one have a problem linking to videos showing how Uri Geller does his tricks. (And before anyone replies with comments about how he claims what he does is real, it seems comparable to people not linking to explanations of Derren Brown and we know he misleads people about how his tricks are done). Sorry but I'm just getting a bit fed up with all this protected status of magic tricks - I find how magic tricks done to be very clever and interesting and I appreciate them massively - but after I have seen them I like to know how they are done (either by working out myself or, if that fails, by explanation) - and this drip feed of information (you are allowed to know how that trick is done but not this one) a little frustrating and, to a certain extent, annoying. It is very easy to say "I know how X was done but I'm not going to tell you" and I am surprised it is so readily accepted on a sceptical site on which paranormal trickery is analysed and exposed, especially when it sometimes uses known illusionist techniques.
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3rd September 2008, 06:00 PM	#29
GregHouseMD Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 334	Some tricks are easy and it doesn't takemuch to figure them out. However, when you have a really spectacular effect, it's a secret for the same reason no one knos what Ingredient X is in Coca Cola and why the two people who know the formula do not ride on the same plane.

3rd September 2008, 11:01 PM	#30
wolves_skeptic Student Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 27	Originally Posted by Ashles As I have said in another thread, I'm not sure why people cannot just link to the YouTube video. Instead there has to be vague hints after which people have to search for it themselves. Either it is easy to find in which case why not just link straight to it, or it is difficult to find in which case mentioning it isn't really very helpful. I find it a bit hypocritical too - why does no-one have a problem linking to videos showing how Uri Geller does his tricks. (And before anyone replies with comments about how he claims what he does is real, it seems comparable to people not linking to explanations of Derren Brown and we know he misleads people about how his tricks are done). Penn and Teller tell you they do tricks. Geller claims it's a mystical force. That's the difference and that's why Geller should be exposed. As for Derren Brown... he's very clever. He tells you that his tricks use a mixture of magic, suggestion, psychology and showmanship. He's clever because he never tells you in what degrees those are used. He is also clever because, as he says, "He's always honest about my dishonesty." THe fact that people see a Derren Brown trick and instantly think of some psychological illusion when it's a simple multiple out or other form of magic trick says more about those people than it does Brown. So essentially, Brown and P&T admit they are tricks... Geller claims a mystical force. That's the difference.
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8th September 2008, 08:32 PM	#31
Monza Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 929	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer I...However, he went on to say that *very few* magicians know how the P&T bullet catch is done. It's that good. Which leads me to believe that the OP is most likely wrong in stating that he has figured it out. It's been said that one of the differences between lay people and magicians is that if a lay person figures out just part of a trick, he will feel he knows it all; if a magician figures out all but part of a trick, he will feel he doesn't know it at all.
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9th September 2008, 11:27 AM	#32
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by Cain ... The trick with the coins and goldfish is fantastic, much better than the double bullet catch. That one had you fooled? I must have been on a good sight line from it, because I could make you that box right now. Its all optics and partitions.
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9th September 2008, 11:31 AM	#33
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by GregHouseMD ... I have examine the bullet very closely, it has real groves on it from being fired. I think a stage hand fires the bullets picked out through a supressed pistol backstage and then gives the case and bullets somehow to P&T. ... No. No need for a gun at all when you can do the same thing with a purpose-built hydraulic tool in seconds.
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9th September 2008, 02:49 PM	#34
Ranb Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 4,096	Originally Posted by Monza It's been said that one of the differences between lay people and magicians is that if a lay person figures out just part of a trick, he will feel he knows it all; if a magician figures out all but part of a trick, he will feel he doesn't know it at all. Then this makes me a lay person. I watched the other video that tells how the trick was done. It looks like the person who edited in the comments has an axe to grind. Ranb

11th September 2008, 12:17 AM	#35
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,934	Originally Posted by BenBurch That one had you fooled? I must have been on a good sight line from it, because I could make you that box right now. Its all optics and partitions. Pssssht. The standard for a trick is not that it must fool me. That can be a great feeling. The fish bowl for Miser's Dream followed by a goldfish production. It's funny, it's visual, it's magical (plus there's not a lot of Penn in it). My strongest objection is that uses animals (a recent TIMES (London) article claims goldfish are as smart as mice). Who cares if the bullet trick is more difficult to figure out. I can do a card trick based on a stack of principles -- memorization, floating key card, and clocking -- but, if presented right, spectators will remember the one where I changed an indifferent card to their selection in their own hands. It's all about clarity of effect, and this one is so clear that it takes virtually no words.
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