So why is revealing magic tricks so sacred?

[Ashles]

I know there is a generally agreed 'code' that the secrets behind magic tricks should be kept secret. But why is it so rigidly adhered to?

I love magic tricks and I know how many of them are done, but there are others I would love explained just to appreciate the technical brilliance (or unexpected cunningness) of the trick. But it seems I am not allowed to know.

The restriction on revealing these tricks seems to border on the fanatical. If people don't want to know, fine, don't visit the places that explain them. This forum reveals every day perfectly possible (and likely) explanations for deeply held paranormal beliefs. And believers can choose to visit or not visit this site and read and accept or disagree with those explanations.

But why are sites/videos/text explanations of magic tricks still so sacrosanct? People often claim that the answers are readily available, but a search does not reveal them.

So I repeat my question - why are magic tricks protected to an almost legal/national security level?

[SkeptiChick]

Why? Sound business sense, that's why.

How magic tricks are done is just as much intellectual property as anything else. There are two ways, generally, to protect that property.

The first is copyright. But, in order to copyright, you have to make that property public knowledge. In making how a magic trick is performed "public knowledge" it loses the mystique that draws so many people to watch a magic show, and the end result would be no one wanting to watch the act more than once -- something that makes the intellectual property of the inner workings of a magic act worthless.

The second is through non-disclosure. In keeping the "how" secret from everyone, the intrigue and mystique of the act is left intact. People keep paying admission so that they can try and figure it out for themselves. This not only keeps money in the pocket of the magician, but it actually increases the value of the intellectual property involved.

[qwints]

Originally Posted by SkeptiChick

Why? Sound business sense, that's why.
The first is copyright. But, in order to copyright, you have to make that property public knowledge. In making how a magic trick is performed "public knowledge" it loses the mystique that draws so many people to watch a magic show, and the end result would be no one wanting to watch the act more than once -- something that makes the intellectual property of the inner workings of a magic act worthless.

From the US copyright office:
Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.

The method behind magic tricks cannot be copyrighted (instructional books or DVDs could be, but that still wouldn't protect the method. It might be able to be patented, but that would require making the method public and would only last 20 years. The most relevant body of law is trade secrets law.

[geni]

Originally Posted by SkeptiChick

Why? Sound business sense, that's why.

How magic tricks are done is just as much intellectual property as anything else. There are two ways, generally, to protect that property.

The first is copyright. But, in order to copyright, you have to make that property public knowledge.

Nope. For example windows source code is not public knowlage but it is protected by copyright.

However copyright is of little use since you can't copyright the method only a given way of describeing the method or a given way of presenting it.

You can patent the method. This however does involve revealing how it is done but patents have been used from time to time. Pepper's ghost and some cutting people in half stuff for example.

Quote:

In making how a magic trick is performed "public knowledge" it loses the mystique that draws so many people to watch a magic show, and the end result would be no one wanting to watch the act more than once -- something that makes the intellectual property of the inner workings of a magic act worthless.

Not true. The classic example is a card trick. For some tricks there are about 20 ways of doing them. Some may be well known but no one who isn't seriously into magic is going to learn all of them. Much the same applies with any other trick no one without a serious interest is going to learn them all. Then there is the whole issues of presentation. Just because I know the mechanism doesn't mean I'm going to be able to spot it if if your presentation is good enough even care.

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The second is through non-disclosure. In keeping the "how" secret from everyone, the intrigue and mystique of the act is left intact. People keep paying admission so that they can try and figure it out for themselves. This not only keeps money in the pocket of the magician, but it actually increases the value of the intellectual property involved.

But runs into problems when the trick is a centery old.

[Fronzel]

Magic tricks are cool when you don't know how they do it. Lame when you do know.

[supercorgi]

Originally Posted by Ashles

I know there is a generally agreed 'code' that the secrets behind magic tricks should be kept secret. But why is it so rigidly adhered to?

I love magic tricks and I know how many of them are done, but there are others I would love explained just to appreciate the technical brilliance (or unexpected cunningness) of the trick. But it seems I am not allowed to know.

I've got to agree with you. I love magic tricks but they frustrate me because I can't figure out how they work and I really want to understand them. I think the psychology behind magic is amazing -- using how people perceive things to make them see the impossible. Knowing the design/engineering behind the tricks makes me appreciate them more. I can appreciate them as art, but also appreciate them as science.

[rustypouch]

Because then it wouldn't be magic.

[SkeptiChick]

Originally Posted by geni

Nope. For example windows source code is not public knowlage but it is protected by copyright.

However copyright is of little use since you can't copyright the method only a given way of describeing the method or a given way of presenting it.

You can patent the method. This however does involve revealing how it is done but patents have been used from time to time. Pepper's ghost and some cutting people in half stuff for example.

Yes. I misspoke. I meant patent. Chalk it up to not having had enough coffee And yes, there are some magic tricks patented. Those are usually the ones that are sold to people in magic shops -- you know, the ones that have been done so often and by so many people that the average joe doesn't really consider it "magic" anymore, but recognizes it for the illusion that it is.

Quote:

Not true. The classic example is a card trick. For some tricks there are about 20 ways of doing them. Some may be well known but no one who isn't seriously into magic is going to learn all of them. Much the same applies with any other trick no one without a serious interest is going to learn them all. Then there is the whole issues of presentation. Just because I know the mechanism doesn't mean I'm going to be able to spot it if if your presentation is good enough even care.

But runs into problems when the trick is a centery old.

Um. Most people lose interest in "magic" when they know how a trick is done because it ceases to be magical to them, thus showing how a magic trick is not magical ruins your income. Not to mention that the more people know how to do something, the more competition you have, which also can ruin your income.

It's sound business sense to keep these things secret. Plain and simple.

[jimtron]

Quote:

So I repeat my question - why are magic tricks protected to an almost legal/national security level?

They are usually not strictly protected (even prior to the Internet you could learn a lot by going to the library or bookstore). But why do people want them protected? If you're a magician, obviously it's gonna hurt the act if everyone knows how the effects are done. Also, if you're in the business of selling magic tricks (sometimes it's just instructions--the secret) or books, you're not going to appreciate having the secrets freely attainable.

One argument in favor of having the secrets exposed: many magicians have been getting away with impressing people with ancient tricks that have been done to death. It would be swell if people would come up with their own original stuff instead of doing something that's been done to death. But I also certainly don't blame folks who are frustrated by the ubiquity of magic secrets on the Internet.

[Ashles]

Originally Posted by SkeptiChick

It's sound business sense to keep these things secret. Plain and simple.

Well I obviously realise that magicians have reasons for wanting to keep the tricks secret - what I don't understand is why everyone else seems to buy into this to the extent they do.
We know special effects in films are tricks but nobody has any issues with revealing them. Knowing that Ian McKellen is sitting much closer to the screen than Elijah Wood doesn't spoil Lord of the Rings for me.

There are no laws protecting the secrets, yet people behave as if there are.

And surely people are entitled to decide for themselves whether knowing how a magic trick is done ruins it for them. For me personally it doesn't.
If it would ruin it for someone to know then I wouldn't expect them to spend time trying to find out how they were done.

As an example I saw Criss Angel's walking through the glass window trick and had a theory as to how he had done it. Some guys (I think they were called 'Trickbusters') had posted a video on YouTube showing how it was done.
But when I went to look at it, it had been removed for some breach of YouTube regulations.
Now if it was offensive or something similar then fair enough, but if it was removed simply because it gave away a magic secret then that seems like unnecessarily censorship.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by jimtron

One argument in favor of having the secrets exposed: many magicians have been getting away with impressing people with ancient tricks that have been done to death.

That is one argument, but it's mainly used by people who want to expose the tricks for the money (such as the masked magician on TV), and for people who want to impress their friends and show everyone how smart they are by explaining tricks but don't want to spend time learning to do them.

Originally Posted by jimtron

It would be swell if people would come up with their own original stuff instead of doing something that's been done to death.

It would also be swell if all musicians and singers would come up with their own original songs and many some new notes on the musical scale. We've been listening to the same notes for centuries with no additions.

The truth is that if something has been done to death then most people will stop watching it.

[geni]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

That is one argument, but it's mainly used by people who want to expose the tricks for the money (such as the masked magician on TV), and for people who want to impress their friends and show everyone how smart they are by explaining tricks but don't want to spend time learning to do them.

Since anyone selling say a book of magic tricks is exposing the tricks for money it would appear that money per se is not a valid reason to object.

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It would also be swell if all musicians and singers would come up with their own original songs and many some new notes on the musical scale.

There is a reason copyright on songs doesn't last forever but songs are a bad example since they would be the presentation of the trick. Which you can copyright. The equiverlent of the method would be say a particular musical insterment which you could patent for 20 years. Would waiting 20 years before explaining how a trick is done be acceptable.

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We've been listening to the same notes for centuries with no additions.

Depends how you define note. But there has been in the last few centiries an enormous variation in musical styles, instuments and ways of putting them together. Everything from high opera to plastic pop to death metal.

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The truth is that if something has been done to death then most people will stop watching it.

How many performances of macbeth have there been over the years? We all know the plot how it's going to end in many cases even chuncks of the script. But the play appears to get by.

[jimtron]

Quote:

Now if it was offensive or something similar then fair enough, but if it was removed simply because it gave away a magic secret then that seems like unnecessarily censorship.

Youtube doesn't ban videos that reveal magic tricks, do they? Are you sure this wasn't a copyright violation? Did they show a clip of Angel's show?

[Ashles]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

That is one argument, but it's mainly used by people who want to expose the tricks for the money (such as the masked magician on TV), and for people who want to impress their friends and show everyone how smart they are by explaining tricks

Yes and why shouldn't they be able to do so?

Surely the counter argument is magicians don't want to reveal tricks because not revealing them shows how smart they are (since we have apparently decided that people wanting to show 'how smart they are' is in some way a reason to restrict behaviours).

Quote:

but don't want to spend time learning to do them.

Should I be prevented from having the double-slit experiment explained to me simply because I am not prepared to dedicate years to studying quantum mechanics?
Why are you not allowed to have something explained to you just because you are interested in it at a more casual level than the professional?

To be honest those reasons seem fairly weak.

[Ashles]

Originally Posted by jimtron

Youtube doesn't ban videos that reveal magic tricks, do they? Are you sure this wasn't a copyright violation? Did they show a clip of Angel's show?

They don't usually ban clips for that reason either - it was on YouTube that I saw many of Criss Angel's tricks.

I don't know what the reason was for removing the explanation clip - it may have been any one of a number of perfectly valid reasons. It was just my first assumption (rightly or wrongly) that it had been removed/complained about because it had explained a trick and people sometimes seem to get very funny about that.

[jimtron]

Quote:

It was just my first assumption (rightly or wrongly) that it had been removed/complained about because it had explained a trick and people sometimes seem to get very funny about that.

I don't know for sure but I don't think they ban videos that give away magic secrets. I'm pretty sure there is quite a bit of that on Youtube--dudes explaining card tricks and stuff.

[qwints]

Youtube normally takes done any video which a company asserts is infringing. They do this because the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) immunizes service providers that take down copyright infringing material as soon as they are notified. (The "safe harbor provision.")

My guess is that the video got noticed by someone who works at A&E or a parent company and they asked that it be taken down. There's no requirement that a company take down every clip to take down just one.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by geni

Since anyone selling say a book of magic tricks is exposing the tricks for money it would appear that money per se is not a valid reason to object.

My objection (and no one else's that I know of) is not that it was done for money. It's that it was done at all. I've seen and read hundreds of magic books. With few exceptions (such as a couple written by Herbert Becker) they are written to teach, not just expose. You can quibble that it's a fine line, but it is a line.

Originally Posted by geni

Would waiting 20 years before explaining how a trick is done be acceptable.

I assume that you're asking for an opinion- mine would be no.

Originally Posted by geni

Depends how you define note. But there has been in the last few centiries an enormous variation in musical styles, instuments and ways of putting them together. Everything from high opera to plastic pop to death metal.

During the last few centuries there has been an enormous variation in magic styles, tricks, props and ways of putting them together.

Originally Posted by geni

Quote:

by jimtron
It would be swell if people would come up with their own original stuff instead of doing something that's been done to death.

Quote:

The truth is that if something has been done to death then most people will stop watching it.

How many performances of macbeth have there been over the years? We all know the plot how it's going to end in many cases even chuncks of the script. But the play appears to get by.

How many performances of macbeth have you personally seen in your entire life? For most people the answer is likely to be one (or less).

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by Ashles

Yes and why shouldn't they be able to do so?

Obviously they can do so. Why should we help them do it?

Originally Posted by Ashles

Surely the counter argument is magicians don't want to reveal tricks because not revealing them shows how smart they are

In many cases you're right. I consider those magicians very poor magicians.

Originally Posted by Ashles

(since we have apparently decided that people wanting to show 'how smart they are' is in some way a reason to restrict behaviours).

How about someone who keeps going into movie theaters showing 'who-done-its' and shouting out the ending when the movie is just starting to show 'how smart they are'? Are you in favor of that?

Originally Posted by Ashles

Should I be prevented from having the double-slit experiment explained to me simply because I am not prepared to dedicate years to studying quantum mechanics?

Nope.

Originally Posted by Ashles

Why are you not allowed to have something explained to you just because you are interested in it at a more casual level than the professional?

I didn't say you're not allowed. Answers in magic are given much more freely than most people think, but mostly to people who have shown an interest or put in some effort. I don't think they should be dumped on someone who happens to tune in a TV channel.

Many people I know who watched some of the exposure shows 7-8 years ago told me they wished they hadn't seen them. But it was like a car wreck- they couldn't stop watching.

Originally Posted by Ashles

To be honest those reasons seem fairly weak.

Those reasons answered the questions. There are others.

[gnome]

Here's a question... how do people that become magicians find out how to do the tricks?

I appreciate that the actual tricks are kept under wraps to some extent, it increases the entertainment value of the profession. For someone that really has a desire to know, why not study stage magic and learn the secrets the way professionals do?

[wolves_skeptic]

I think the issue is that revealing how the trick is done can be a disservice to the skills of a good magician.

For instance, if someone didn't know how a card trick was done and you said, "Oh, it's easy, they palmed the card." and quickly show them from another angle they would go, "Oh, that's it." and the trick would no longer hold interest for them. What they don't see is the hours and hours and hours people have had to spend perfecting that card palming. The skill in magic, from the magicians point of view, is practising something to such a degree that no one sees you do it. The wonder from the audience part is in working out how you do it. By revealing the trick you, on the whole, ignore the skill of the performer and remove the wonder from the audience... it's a lose lose situation.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Ashles

I know there is a generally agreed 'code' that the secrets behind magic tricks should be kept secret. But why is it so rigidly adhered to?

But it isn't. Too many magicians cannot keep secrets to themselves, and the Internet has facilitated unprecedented exposure. In any case, secrets that are not guarded, are not valued.

It's commonly noted that most magicians already know the basic methods and techniques for most tricks. You might call this the "secret," but the method is not the secret. As discussed in the New Yorker article that came out not long ago, timing, motivation, and theatrics make up part of what magicians generally call "the real work."

I was reading an interview with Derren Brown, and they talked about how in one of his specials he goes to a night club hosting some model bash in order to use psychology to come up with the best line to pick up beautiful girls. What makes a person want to learn the secret -- well, at least men -- is the presentation itself, which has a compelling emotional hook. If he went to some burger joint in the midwest and told people what they were going to order before they ordered, you probably would not be as interested in learning the secret. You can yell it at your TV screen- "Oh, that fat lady is going to get a triple cheeseburger, large french fries and... a small diet Coke."

When we watch the Bourne movies we see the lead character do a lot of clever things. He constructs a make shift bomb using gas, a toaster and a magazine; misdirects highly trained agents with a fan and a flash light; takes out guards with a bottle of whiskey and karate (while injured); thwarts a team of agents with a phone call and gun shots, and so on. We're a party to those (alleged) "tricks of the trade"; we see him thinking on his feet and appreciate his resourcefulness. What we miss (hopefully) is the underlying structure; if it's well done then we accept these situations without thinking they are hopelessly contrived, and the movie ends in an emotionally satisfying but unexpected way. This is a slightly strained analogy, but I think it gets the point across. You can give a writer a clever piece of dialog that everyone will later quote, but what she may want is logical and compelling way to motivate a scene without making it seem labored.

[ChaoticLimbs]

You know, I'm not a magician yet, I'm still learning and practicing with family, but I think the real magic is how a conjurer "sells" the trick. Even when I know how it's performed, the thing that still tickles me is to see someone really work a trick wherein the gimmick is the most obvious thing in the world. He is the trick, and his body language and confidence are the reason his audience for a moment thinks "It couldn't simply be *BLANK*, that'd be too cheesy" and they put it out of their mind because they feel there's no way this honest man could pull such a simple con on them, for he is a master magician. It's in that moment when the audience could guess the method but the showmanship of the magician wins them over that magic happens for me.

[tkingdoll]

It always amuses me when magicians who are also skeptics complain that people readily believe a paranormal explanation, yet will not allow the exposure of the actual method.

For example, if I claim to bend a spoon with the power of my mind, it is entirely reasonable for someone to say that it's a trick. But unless they're prepared to show everyone the trick, then it's also reasonable that some people will believe it's the power of my mind.

Randi showed how spoonbending is done, on TV, but there are still issues in the magic community about revealing the method! Insane.

[Ashles]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Obviously they can do so. Why should we help them do it?

Why shouldn't we - that's exactly my question.

Quote:

How about someone who keeps going into movie theaters showing 'who-done-its' and shouting out the ending when the movie is just starting to show 'how smart they are'? Are you in favor of that?

That analogy doesn't work because no-one is suggesting you tell people how magic tricks are done who don't want to know.
A better analogy would be if I saw a spoiler thread about a film would I want to click on it and find out whodidit (or some other such information).
That's my choice.
And you don't see people saying all spoiler threads should be deleted.

So in the comparable analogy we accept that information about films IS currently available freely for anyone who wants it with very little effort.

Quote:

I didn't say you're not allowed. Answers in magic are given much more freely than most people think, but mostly to people who have shown an interest or put in some effort.

Not in my experience. People much prefer to say "I know how they did it" then not say.

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I don't think they should be dumped on someone who happens to tune in a TV channel.

So now you don't believe people are even capable of choosing what to watch on television? That's silly.

Quote:

Many people I know who watched some of the exposure shows 7-8 years ago told me they wished they hadn't seen them. But it was like a car wreck- they couldn't stop watching.

It's hard to know what they were expecting to see if not how the magic tricks were done.
"Many people"?
Really?
"Many"?

Quote:

Those reasons answered the questions.

Not very well.

Quote:

There are others.

Presumably less good reasons as you didn't mention them.

[Whiplash]

I am someone who grew up fascinated by magic, and spent alot of time reading books, watching videos and so forth. Over time I learned how to do a great number of simple tricks, and how some greater tricks were done.

It ruined me for magic. I totally understand why people who do it want to keep it secret, because when you actually see how simple some of the tricks are to do.. and when you learn enough magic basics to start to understand how other things are being done that you had not seen before, it really makes it a complete "ho hum" experience.

[jimtron]

Ashles:


What kind of exposure (secrets of magic tricks revealed), if any, is acceptable to you? Whom, in your opinion, should have access to magic secrets?

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Fronzel

Magic tricks are cool when you don't know how they do it. Lame when you do know.

Actually, I tend to think the opposite. Things are more fascinating when I know how they work.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Obviously they can do so. Why should we help them do it?

Why not ?

Quote:

I consider those magicians very poor magicians.

Not True Scottsmen, right ?

Quote:

How about someone who keeps going into movie theaters showing 'who-done-its' and shouting out the ending when the movie is just starting to show 'how smart they are'? Are you in favor of that?

After the movie ? Sure.

[roger]

This whole thing is predicated on the idea that you (the magician) can think better for me than I can. No thanks, I'm capable of making my own decisions, and it's pretty insulting to think that you have to 'protect' me.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Quote:

Obviously they can do so. Why should we help them do it?

Why not ?

Because there's no good reason to and there are reasons not to. If you think thosee reasons aren't good then you can help them.

Originally Posted by Belz...

Not True Scottsmen, right ?

Only if you think there's no such thing as a poor magician?

Originally Posted by Belz...

After the movie ? Sure.

After the movie they won't be asking.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by roger

This whole thing is predicated on the idea that you (the magician) can think better for me than I can. No thanks, I'm capable of making my own decisions, and it's pretty insulting to think that you have to 'protect' me.

The whole thing is predicated on the idea that you're entitled to demand answers from me that I don't want to give. Almost all the answers are available. You're just too lazy to spend the time and effort to find them and feel that I'm obligated to give them just because you want them.

[Garrette]

{Note} Re-reading this indicates it comes across as somewhat snarky; I'm not attempting to be, so please brush by any apparent attitude and chalk it up to poor writing skills on my part. Thanks.}

Ashles,

Do you see the need for any kind of limit on revealing secrets? (Setting aside the movie theater analogy because we are agreed it makes no sense to reveal secrets someone doesn't want to know)

What about immediately after the show? A spectator walks up to David Copperfield and asks how he cut himself in half (he's got a very very impressive routine on this that can be quite difficult to figure out). If David is still on stage, does he need a reason to say no? What if it's in the dressing room right after? Two hours later at a restaurant?

Let's move it to a trade show performer. If I have a booth in a convention hall, and I see two thousand people a day, but only a few at a time, should I feel obliged to tell the secret to the conventioneer who asks me how I just made the rubber bands penetrate each other? Or how I put the pen with his company logo through my quarter?

Serious questions. No agenda, but an admission that I lean far toward Bob Klase's side.

[Garrette]

Oops. I saw this after I posted. In light of this comment, I think I can guess Ashles' response. Sorry for not reading more closely first.

Originally Posted by Ashles

Well I obviously realise that magicians have reasons for wanting to keep the tricks secret - what I don't understand is why everyone else seems to buy into this to the extent they do.

[JoeTheJuggler]

Quote:

So why is revealing magic tricks so sacred?

Just a point on the language: revealing magic tricks is not "sacred". In fact, the word you're after is pretty much the opposite. Maybe "taboo"?

Not revealing magic tricks or perhaps "protecting" magic secrets might be considered "sacred".

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Because there's no good reason to and there are reasons not to.

Really ? There's no good reason ? Me wanting to understand those tricks is not a good reason ?

Quote:

Only if you think there's no such thing as a poor magician?

Oh, sure. But I don't think you get to define "poor" as meaning "different from you".

Quote:

After the movie they won't be asking.

Your analogy fails here. After the movie, they'll want to know how this or that effect was accomplished. THAT is the parallel you should've made.

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The whole thing is predicated on the idea that you're entitled to demand answers from me that I don't want to give.

That's fine. However, if another magician is willing to give me those answers, why should you think poorly of him ? Isn't it his right ?

Quote:

Almost all the answers are available. You're just too lazy to spend the time and effort to find them and feel that I'm obligated to give them just because you want them.

That's incredibly shallow. I want to understand a lot of things about science, technology, nature, etc., but I don't have the time to go back to school and study all those subjects at length. My field is computer programming. I've studied that. But there's a whole lot of other things I want to know, and I have to entrust other people with the task of teaching me, summarily, these things. Magic is no exception.

[Bob Klase]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Really ? There's no good reason ? Me wanting to understand those tricks is not a good reason ?

It's certainly a good reason for you to try to learn what you want to know. The fact that you want to know is not a good reason for me to tell you. Especially when I have reasons to not tell you regardless of whether you like my reasons or think they're good.

Originally Posted by Belz...

Oh, sure. But I don't think you get to define "poor" as meaning "different from you".

Whether or not someone is a poor magician is a subjective opinion. My opinion of who's a poor magician is not "different from me"- it's "inferior" or "lacking in quality".

If you review what I wrote, I said that a magician who's using magic (and not revealing tricks) merely to show how smart they are is a poor magician. Doing magic to show how smart you are is a poor reason to do magic and the only magician's I've ever seen who have that as a reason are poor magicians.

Knowing something you've seen or read doesn't make you smarter than someone who doesn't know it.

Originally Posted by Belz...

Your analogy fails here. After the movie, they'll want to know how this or that effect was accomplished. THAT is the parallel you should've made.

Only if it stopped there. But it rarely does. The movie analogy may fail, but as it applies to magic there are too many people who then stand outside the theater and give away the ending to people going in to see the movie.

Originally Posted by Belz...

That's fine. However, if another magician is willing to give me those answers, why should you think poorly of him ? Isn't it his right ?

It may be his right. It depends on what answers he's giving. If he's telling you things that he was told in confidence and he's breaking that confidence then I would hope you'd think poorly of him.

And if I heard him telling you answers then it would be my right to follow him to a performance he was giving and tell everyone the answer to whatever tricks he was doing. There may be a few magicians that wouldn't mind that, but not many.

Originally Posted by Belz...

That's incredibly shallow. I want to understand a lot of things about science, technology, nature, etc., but I don't have the time to go back to school and study all those subjects at length.

So all you have to do is find someone willing to tell you whatever you want to know. Good luck.

[El Greco]

Originally Posted by Ashles

So I repeat my question - why are magic tricks protected to an almost legal/national security level?

I suspect it's because Randi wants it this way.

Which raises the question: Will someone who reveals magic tricks be suspended/banned ? And if yes, which exactly will be the rule violation ?

[thaiboxerken]

Originally Posted by El Greco

I suspect it's because Randi wants it this way.

Which raises the question: Will someone who reveals magic tricks be suspended/banned ? And if yes, which exactly will be the rule violation ?

Yes, they will be disciplined by the forum moderators. And the rule being violated is "don't expose magic tricks."

[Ashles]

Originally Posted by El Greco

I suspect it's because Randi wants it this way.

Don't get me wrong - I understand the restriction on the JREF forums - basically Randi has the right to restrict subjects however he likes, and I would be surprised if a forum for a foundation run by a professional magician DIDN'T restrict the revealing of magic tricks.

But the attitude seems to be the same elsewhere.