Merged: Is Bin Laden responsible for 9/11?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

you guys are a bunch of noobs you just take every position that randi himself takes on these issues. You are sheeple nothing more. Follow the crowd so you wont get your feelings hurt. This is supposed to be the skeptic forum yet not even 1 of you are the least bit skeptical about the official story even though there is no evidence to support it and yet you dont even care you dont want evidence because you believe anything your govt tells you. I mean if your not skeptical that hani hanjour who failed flight school flying a small cesna single engine plane, takes over a 757 boeing in mid air navigates it directly to his target make an incredible 300 degree banking turn going 500mph and crashing it into the first floor of a building without even nicking the lawn then i dont know what to say.

[applecorped]

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

you guys are a bunch of noobs you just take every position that randi himself takes on these issues. You are sheeple nothing more. Follow the crowd so you wont get your feelings hurt. This is supposed to be the skeptic forum yet not even 1 of you are the least bit skeptical about the official story even though there is no evidence to support it and yet you dont even care you dont want evidence because you believe anything your govt tells you. I mean if your not skeptical that hani hanjour who failed flight school flying a small cesna single engine plane, takes over a 757 boeing in mid air navigates it directly to his target make an incredible 300 degree banking turn going 500mph and crashing it into the first floor of a building without even nicking the lawn then i dont know what to say.

Incredulity is not evidence.

[HyJinX]

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

you guys are a bunch of noobs you just take every position that randi himself takes on these issues. You are sheeple nothing more. Follow the crowd so you wont get your feelings hurt. This is supposed to be the skeptic forum yet not even 1 of you are the least bit skeptical about the official story even though there is no evidence to support it and yet you dont even care you dont want evidence because you believe anything your govt tells you. I mean if your not skeptical that hani hanjour who failed flight school flying a small cesna single engine plane, takes over a 757 boeing in mid air navigates it directly to his target make an incredible 300 degree banking turn going 500mph and crashing it into the first floor of a building without even nicking the lawn then i dont know what to say.

[Grizzly Bear]

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

you guys are a bunch of noobs you just take every position that randi himself takes on these issues.

This is at the bottom of every page, I suggest you memorize it:
Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

You are sheeple nothing more. Follow the crowd so you wont get your feelings hurt.

Character assassination is not discussion, try again. Start substantiating your claims.

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

This is supposed to be the skeptic forum yet not even 1 of you are the least bit skeptical about the official story even though there is no evidence to support it...

Then please feel free to present the evidence you believe contradicts it and why. There are a variety of threads available for you to address yourself in. I'd be interested in what you have to say.

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

..and yet you dont even care you dont want evidence because you believe anything your govt tells you.

Your claim of faith towards the government by "Sheeple" is incorrect, on the other hand truther's faith to Alex Jones, Griffin, et al is quite astounding. Hypocrisy at its finest

[TMiguel]

Of course not the Bin Laden, the lepricans did it, it is so obviouse.

[twinstead]

Wow. Spittle-spewing ideologues ROCK!

[checkitb4uwreckit]

let me ask this do any of you actually believe that the u.s invaded iraq to `liberate its people`?

[defaultdotxbe]

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

let me ask this do any of you actually believe that the u.s invaded iraq to `liberate its people`?

let me ask this, what does that have to do with bin laden's responsibility (or lack thereof) for the 9/11 attacks?

[checkitb4uwreckit]

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

let me ask this, what does that have to do with bin laden's responsibility (or lack thereof) for the 9/11 attacks?

its relevant

[defaultdotxbe]

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

its relevant

so if there were ulterior motives for invading iraq that means osama is innocent?

sounds like a non sequitor to me

[brodski]

I have moved a string of off-topic posts dealing with personal abuse to AHH. Remember to keep all of your posts within your membership agreement. Do not de-rail threads and do not engage in personal abuse

Posted By:brodski

[Russ_Dalton]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Rex Tomb's comment is not the only piece of evidence involved here. I suggest you read the 9/11 Commission Report, which goes into great detail concerning the personal histories of the hijackers, their extensive ties to al-Qaeda, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's interactions with Bin Laden, and sources that these accounts are drawn from. You may, of course, choose to reject that as unreliable information. However, if at the same time you consider Rex Tomb's single remark to be reliable and to mean exactly what you choose it to mean, what is your motive for so discriminating between these two sources other than that one supports your predetermined conclusion and the other does not?

Dave

Which pieces of evidence from the 9/11 Commission Report convinced you that the funding was ONLY from KSM/al qaeda/Bin laden and has absolutely no source from elements of the US adminstration?

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by Russ_Dalton

Which pieces of evidence from the 9/11 Commission Report convinced you that the funding was ONLY from KSM/al qaeda/Bin laden and has absolutely no source from elements of the US adminstration?

You mean other that there is zero evidence of any funding by anyone in the US Administration and that the payments into the accounts of the hijackers have all been traced back to KSM and Ramzi Binalshibh or other known AQ members?

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Russ_Dalton

Which pieces of evidence from the 9/11 Commission Report convinced you that the funding was ONLY from KSM/al qaeda/Bin laden and has absolutely no source from elements of the US adminstration?

I haven't placed the onus of proving a negative on the 9/11 Commission Report. The suggestion of a MIHOP-lite scenario, where 9/11 played out exactly as is generally understood but that the initial stimulus, and possibly some funding, originated from the US government, has the attraction that it is at least barely feasible, and if there were any plausible evidence for it, it's a scenario I'd be prepared to consider. In the absence of any evidence that isn't based on wilful misinterpretation, though, and bearing in mind Bin Laden's frequent expressions of implacable hostility towards America, it's not worth bothering with.

Dave

[Russ_Dalton]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

You mean other that there is zero evidence of any funding by anyone in the US Administration and that the payments into the accounts of the hijackers have all been traced back to KSM and Ramzi Binalshibh or other known AQ members?

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

I haven't placed the onus of proving a negative on the 9/11 Commission Report. The suggestion of a MIHOP-lite scenario, where 9/11 played out exactly as is generally understood but that the initial stimulus, and possibly some funding, originated from the US government, has the attraction that it is at least barely feasible, and if there were any plausible evidence for it, it's a scenario I'd be prepared to consider. In the absence of any evidence that isn't based on wilful misinterpretation, though, and bearing in mind Bin Laden's frequent expressions of implacable hostility towards America, it's not worth bothering with.

Dave

How did you rule out the possibility of terror funding by officials in the US adminstration?

I include that possibility based on :
(1) Many whistle blowers who claim terror funding from US sources-
Examples:-
-Indira singh
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...a+singh#10m34s

-Sibel Edmonds - ex-FBI employee

-Robert Wright - ex-FBI employee
http://www.sirdave.com/SAW.html

(2) Many examples of funding of terrorist activities from elements within the US adminstration in the past

[Arus808]

Oh boy...Sigh and Edmonds...again?

Russ, you might wanna search the forums. These two people have been covered already.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Russ_Dalton

How did you rule out the possibility of terror funding by officials in the US adminstration?

Can you read, as well as parrot questions? As I said, I don't rule out that possibility, there simply isn't any evidence for it, and good reason, given the hostility of UBL towards the US, to disbelieve it; in general US support has been given to organisations that are not overtly hostile to the US. Therefore, on balance, I don't think it's worth considering at this stage. I don't need absolute proof that something didn't happen for it not to be worth my time considering the possibility that it did. The world isn't black and white.

If you keep on asking questions that have already been answered, don't expect another repeat of the same response.

Dave

[Russ_Dalton]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Can you read, as well as parrot questions? As I said, I don't rule out that possibility, there simply isn't any evidence for it, and good reason, given the hostility of UBL towards the US, to disbelieve it; in general US support has been given to organisations that are not overtly hostile to the US. Therefore, on balance, I don't think it's worth considering at this stage. I don't need absolute proof that something didn't happen for it not to be worth my time considering the possibility that it did. The world isn't black and white.

If you keep on asking questions that have already been answered, don't expect another repeat of the same response.

Dave

Ex-FBI employers, who have been gagged, risked their position and yet go ahead and talk about funding of already known terrorist organizations- which you consider as a weak evidence?

One example-
Robert Wright (ex-FBI) claims to have discovered the source of funding of OBL, via Yassin Kadi a US-Saudi businessman. Yet Robert Wrights investigation was obstructed, was asked not to investigate further and his book was prevented from publishing.

And yet your strongest evidence is UBLs hostility towards US? which in no way effects the above testimony.
(Source:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_2469.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,54070,00.html)

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by Russ_Dalton

Robert Wright (ex-FBI) claims to have discovered the source of funding of OBL, via Yassin Kadi a US-Saudi businessman. Yet Robert Wrights investigation was obstructed, was asked not to investigate further and his book was prevented from publishing.

How is al Qadi a "US"-Saudi businessman rather than Saudi, other than you're looking to prove US support for bin Laden?

You are aware that countries have been throwing out charges against him, presumably? His funds were frozen in Switzerland for years, but last year the lengthy Swiss investigation found no support for US charges & he was exonerated. A similar thing happened in Turkey, too.

[Dr Adequate]

Look, I read what links about Wright were still working and his schtick seems to be that there are even more Muslim terrorists than the government is letting on and that Muslims were behind the Oklahoma City bombings.

I'm puzzled as to how this fits into TruthWorld.

[Corsair 115]

Originally Posted by checkitb4uwreckit

...and yet you dont even care you dont want evidence because you believe anything your govt tells you.

How does this apply to the many non-Americans (such as myself) who post here?

[A W Smith]

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

How does this apply to the many non-Americans (such as myself) who post here?

that ones banned too Corsair. I guess he failed to check it before he wrecked it.

[Russ_Dalton]

Originally Posted by MikeW

How is al Qadi a "US"-Saudi businessman rather than Saudi, other than you're looking to prove US support for bin Laden?

You are aware that countries have been throwing out charges against him, presumably? His funds were frozen in Switzerland for years, but last year the lengthy Swiss investigation found no support for US charges & he was exonerated. A similar thing happened in Turkey, too.

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate

Look, I read what links about Wright were still working and his schtick seems to be that there are even more Muslim terrorists than the government is letting on and that Muslims were behind the Oklahoma City bombings.

I'm puzzled as to how this fits into TruthWorld.

-Yasin qadi is on US terror list (listed here since oct 2001), yet continued to enjoy businesses in US including Ptech after 911
http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/po689.htm

-Ptech was owned by more than 10 individuals with history of terrorist links including yasin qadi
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2&hl=en#11m30s

-Ptech provides software for shadow surveillance of many US clients such as executive office of the president, secret service, airforce, navy, FBI, NATO and many government departments
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9&hl=en#04m39s

-FBI knew about its links to known terrorists in the terror list and yet Indira singh and Robert wright were asked to shut up

-Robert wrights investigation linked Yasin qadi to hamas and terror funding of OBL, yet asked to shut up, gagged and prevented from publishing his book
http://www.sirdave.com/SAW.html

-FBI Sent Hamas Money in Clinton Days
http://www.vefbox.com/Media/FBI-pays-Hamas.pdf

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by Russ_Dalton

-Yasin qadi is on US terror list (listed here since oct 2001), yet continued to enjoy businesses in US including Ptech after 911

So having investments in the US makes him a "US/Saudi businessman"? That'll be just about all of them, then.

Ptech needs a whole new thread. Start one if you like. It's about time some of the ludicrous claims made about it were exposed.

[Corsair 115]

Originally Posted by A W Smith

that ones banned too Corsair. I guess he failed to check it before he wrecked it.

Well, clearly I need to keep a scorecard because I'm obviously not keeping up with recent events! (But, really, who wants to keep a scorecard on 9/11 conspiracists?)

[Russ_Dalton]

Originally Posted by MikeW

So having investments in the US makes him a "US/Saudi businessman"? That'll be just about all of them, then.

Ptech needs a whole new thread. Start one if you like. It's about time some of the ludicrous claims made about it were exposed.

-In her research on Ptech, Indira singh was told by intelligence people that Ptech is a CIA clandestine op and asked to shut up.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9&hl=en#07m13s

-Ptech provides software for shadow surveillance of many US clients such as executive office of the president, secret service, airforce, navy, FBI, NATO and many government departments
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9&hl=en#04m39s

-Ptech was owned by more than 10 individuals with history of terrorist links including yasin qadi
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2&hl=en#11m30s

[Mark Carter]

No I don't believe that he was behind 911. A video of Bin Laden would mysteriously appear right before Bush wanted to send in more troops

[Jonnyclueless]

Another 9/11 deniar steps out o the time machine....

The time machine holds in incorrect information too!

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Mark Carter

No I don't believe that he was behind 911. A video of Bin Laden would mysteriously appear right before Bush wanted to send in more troops

For those who believe that Mark Carter is credible in his suggestion that the Bin Laden video was a fake, I suggest you take a look at

http://www.911myths.com/html/fake_video.html

for counter-arguments supported by various external sources.

Dave