Tycho Brahe killed in Plot by Kepler

Galileo · 13th September 2008, 01:18 PM

In 1601, Kepler was very jealous of Tycho Brahe's planetary data. He coveted the data. He poisoned Brahe with mercury. Brahe almost died, then started to recover. But then Kepler poisoned him again and killed him.

Recent mercury tests done on the hair of Brahe have proven that he was killed by mercury poisoning.

Kepler was sort of a lone nut as well, but he was able to use the data to discover the three laws of planetary motion.

Galileo · 13th September 2008, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

In 1601, Kepler was very jealous of Tycho Brahe's planetary data. He coveted the data. He poisoned Brahe with mercury. Brahe almost died, then started to recover. But then Kepler poisoned him again and killed him.

Recent mercury tests done on the hair of Brahe have proven that he was killed by mercury poisoning.

Kepler was sort of a lone nut as well, but he was able to use the data to discover the three laws of planetary motion.

Heavenly Intrigue: Johannes Kepler, Tycho Brahe, and the Murder Behind One of History's Greatest Scientific Discoveries

by Joshua Gilder and Anne-Lee Gilder

http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Intri.../dp/0385508441

JohnG · 14th September 2008, 12:53 AM

Life's just one big Hitchcock movie to you, isn't it?

MG1962 · 14th September 2008, 05:16 AM

What about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tychonic_system

Galileo · 14th September 2008, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by MG1962

What about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tychonic_system

Galileo wasn't too impressed by the Tycho system, because it was dynamically untenable.

Galileo also ignored Tycho. In 1600, Tycho wrote letters to Galileo which Galileo ignored. Galileo never wrote him back.

This was amazing because in 1600, Tycho was far more famous than Galileo.

EventHorizon · 14th September 2008, 02:39 PM

OK, we get it. Every historical figure in the history of the planet was murdered as the result of some sort of conspiracy. Enough.

Galileo · 14th September 2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by JohnG

Life's just one big Hitchcock movie to you, isn't it?

I'd like to see an Alfred Hitchcock or Oliver Stone movie about the trail of Galileo.

btw - I've decided that Kepler was innocent, and that Tycho was murdered by someone else.

I'm not from the pro-Kepler faction, like A. Koestler, by I no longer think that Kepler offed Tycho.

MG1962 · 14th September 2008, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Galileo

Galileo wasn't too impressed by the Tycho system, because it was dynamically untenable.

Galileo also ignored Tycho. In 1600, Tycho wrote letters to Galileo which Galileo ignored. Galileo never wrote him back.

This was amazing because in 1600, Tycho was far more famous than Galileo.

You are missing the point - Tycho applied the data he had collected to evolve his theory. Kepler never made any secret of where the data he used came from. In fact often when you see a statue of either of them, you find the other close by

Tycho and Kepler where the proto-type of much astronomy being done today. Tycho was an exceptional observer, Kepler and exception theorist

Galileo · 14th September 2008, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by MG1962

You are missing the point - Tycho applied the data he had collected to evolve his theory. Kepler never made any secret of where the data he used came from. In fact often when you see a statue of either of them, you find the other close by

Tycho and Kepler where the proto-type of much astronomy being done today. Tycho was an exceptional observer, Kepler and exception theorist

I agree with that.

JohnG · 16th September 2008, 09:52 AM

Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

NobbyNobbs · 16th September 2008, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Galileo

In 1601, Kepler was very jealous of Tycho Brahe's planetary data. He coveted the data. He poisoned Brahe with mercury. Brahe almost died, then started to recover. But then Kepler poisoned him again and killed him.

Recent mercury tests done on the hair of Brahe have proven that he was killed by mercury poisoning.

Kepler was sort of a lone nut as well, but he was able to use the data to discover the three laws of planetary motion.

Originally Posted by Galileo

I'd like to see an Alfred Hitchcock or Oliver Stone movie about the trail of Galileo.

btw - I've decided that Kepler was innocent, and that Tycho was murdered by someone else.

I'm not from the pro-Kepler faction, like A. Koestler, by I no longer think that Kepler offed Tycho.

The OP was posted 9/13 at 3:18 pm my time. The second quoted post was published 9/14 at 4:41 my time, a little more than 25 hours later. What amazing piece of research did you do in that time that changed your mind?

And why didn't you complete that research first, before jumping to post, accusing someone of murder?

kookbreaker · 16th September 2008, 10:13 AM

Assuming the mercury thing is true, this little 'Kepler did it' theory ignores details like murder being completely being out of character for Kepler (of course, in the CT world nebbish unassuming and pacifistic people can easily murder thousands of people in the most gruesome manner without batting an eyelash.)

It also ignores that Brahe was very, very ,very , very unpopular. He was more infamous than more famous than Galileo.

It also ignores that Mercury was used as a treatment for syphillis, despite the known dangers. It was a choice of one devil over the other.

Piscivore · 16th September 2008, 10:49 AM

I think most of the times Tycho is killed, Gabe is usually somehow responsible.

learner · 16th September 2008, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by JohnG

Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

He was pulled off the wall I tell ya.. A conspiracy theory is born!

The Central Scrutinizer · 16th September 2008, 01:36 PM

Kepler is still alive and living in Argentina under the name Hans Bierstein. He is 700 years old.

MG1962 · 16th September 2008, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by learner

He was pulled off the wall I tell ya.. A conspiracy theory is born!

At nearly free fall speeds?

joobz · 16th September 2008, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Piscivore

I think most of the times Tycho is killed, Gabe is usually somehow responsible.

Well, Tycho had to be killed. Or else, he may open one of his 7 mouths and start signing the song which will end the world.

Maus · 16th September 2008, 02:18 PM

I'll have to cut you off here. Was Tycho murdered? Who nose?

-Maus

ImaginalDisc · 18th September 2008, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

It also ignores that Mercury was used as a treatment for syphillis, despite the known dangers. It was a choice of one devil over the other.

I'm not familiar with the dangers of wearing a gold alloy prosthetic nose for years on end, but wouldn't contemporary gold alloys have included mercury?

Foolmewunz · 18th September 2008, 04:57 PM

I was hesitant to post a derail here, but then I realized, "Whoot! It's a Galileo Conspiracy Thread! What could possibly be off-topic?"

So.... ".... had a great fall..."???
They were warning 1970s generations of Yankee Haters of the coming of Reggie Jackson. Who else, but Mr. October could they have been referring to? Surely you don't thing it was The Egg Man? Oh, wait.... they knew Paul Was Dead before he was born. Lennon killed him.

Cuckoo-ka-joo....

Yoink · 18th September 2008, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by JohnG

Humpty Dumpty was pushed!

The real giveaway is that they let the King's horses try to put him together again. Horses? Sticking eggs together is delicate work, and they give it to the horses!?! Clearly they wanted him dead.

MG1962 · 20th September 2008, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Yoink

The real giveaway is that they let the King's horses try to put him together again. Horses? Sticking eggs together is delicate work, and they give it to the horses!?! Clearly they wanted him dead.

I want to know why the king took such an interest in the murder suicide in the first place

Aitch · 20th September 2008, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by MG1962

I want to know why the king took such an interest in the murder suicide in the first place

It's a conspiracy!!!!

Ausmerican · 22nd September 2008, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Galileo

I'd like to see an Alfred Hitchcock or Oliver Stone movie about the trail of Galileo.

No chance I am afraid. Coppola had Hitchcock poisoned.

stilicho · 22nd September 2008, 12:42 AM

Maybe we should start a thread: "Science's biggest ********". I am pretty sure that Tartaglia, Galois, and whole team that discovered insulin--Banting, Best, Collip, and MacLeod--would rate highly. Kepler wouldn't even be in the Top 100.

Ian · 29th September 2008, 12:12 PM

I severely doubt that Kepler pulled a Salieri on Brahe (or even that Salieri killed Mozart in the Cask of Amontillado fasion in Amadeus). However, a few years ago when I was studying Brahe so I could play him at the Miami Museum of Science where Jack Horkheimer was hosting National Astronomy Day I came across what may be an interesting connection regarding Brahe and literature. (Sorry I lost the only photo of me in costume with the fake beard.)

While reading On Tycho's Island by John Robert Christiansen I found a copy of an engraving of Brahe by Jacques de Gheyn. I was already fascinated by engravings and woodcuts because my last acting job before Brahe was as Dürer. One of Gheyn's works can be viewed at the following webpage where the possible literary connection is discussed you can type in at home.att.net/~numericana/arms/brahe.htm (the Forum won't let me post urls until I've been here a while).

Shakespeare was a contemporary of Brahe. According to Isaac Asimov (whom I'm sorry I never met, but whom I affectionately refer to as "Doctor Muttonchops") Shakespeare likely got the idea of writing Hamlet from Saxo Grammaticus. An odd fact about Hamlet is that most of the characters (besides Hamlet, whose name may be an anagram of Amleth) have Latin or Italian names. The webpage I have provided shows the blazons of Brahe (who was royalty) and includes the names "Rosenkrans" and "Gvldensteren". It seems likely that Shakespeare found these names by looking at one of the pieces by Gheyn so he could have characters with Danish names.

Ennyway, that's my 2¢ on the topic.

Aitch · 30th September 2008, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ian

(besides Hamlet, whose name may be an anagram of Amleth)

Puts me in mind of a trick some journalist pulled, years and years ago, on a number of the agony aunts who wrote for various womens magazines in the UK.

Basically he wrote the same letter to them all, containing the basic plot of Hamlet (mum shacked up with uncle, positive that uncle had murdered father etc) written in the style of a hysterical teenage girl. Signed it Thelma Dane.

IIRC only Clare Raynor saw through it; the rest wrote standard AA letters in reply. Always had a certain amount of respect for Clare.

13th September 2008, 01:18 PM	#1
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,050	Tycho Brahe killed in Plot by Kepler In 1601, Kepler was very jealous of Tycho Brahe's planetary data. He coveted the data. He poisoned Brahe with mercury. Brahe almost died, then started to recover. But then Kepler poisoned him again and killed him. Recent mercury tests done on the hair of Brahe have proven that he was killed by mercury poisoning. Kepler was sort of a lone nut as well, but he was able to use the data to discover the three laws of planetary motion.

14th September 2008, 12:53 AM	#3
JohnG Pedantic Bore Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North of Andover Posts: 1,793	Life's just one big Hitchcock movie to you, isn't it?
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14th September 2008, 05:16 AM	#4
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031	What about this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tychonic_system
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031

14th September 2008, 03:00 PM	#8
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031	Originally Posted by Galileo Galileo wasn't too impressed by the Tycho system, because it was dynamically untenable. Galileo also ignored Tycho. In 1600, Tycho wrote letters to Galileo which Galileo ignored. Galileo never wrote him back. This was amazing because in 1600, Tycho was far more famous than Galileo. You are missing the point - Tycho applied the data he had collected to evolve his theory. Kepler never made any secret of where the data he used came from. In fact often when you see a statue of either of them, you find the other close by Tycho and Kepler where the proto-type of much astronomy being done today. Tycho was an exceptional observer, Kepler and exception theorist
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031

16th September 2008, 09:52 AM	#10
JohnG Pedantic Bore Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North of Andover Posts: 1,793	Humpty Dumpty was pushed!
	__________________ Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza And if your hands were metal, that would mean something. - Mike Nelson

13th September 2008, 02:13 PM	#2
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by Galileo In 1601, Kepler was very jealous of Tycho Brahe's planetary data. He coveted the data. He poisoned Brahe with mercury. Brahe almost died, then started to recover. But then Kepler poisoned him again and killed him. Recent mercury tests done on the hair of Brahe have proven that he was killed by mercury poisoning. Kepler was sort of a lone nut as well, but he was able to use the data to discover the three laws of planetary motion. Heavenly Intrigue: Johannes Kepler, Tycho Brahe, and the Murder Behind One of History's Greatest Scientific Discoveries by Joshua Gilder and Anne-Lee Gilder http://www.amazon.com/Heavenly-Intri.../dp/0385508441

14th September 2008, 02:37 PM	#5
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by MG1962 What about this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tychonic_system Galileo wasn't too impressed by the Tycho system, because it was dynamically untenable. Galileo also ignored Tycho. In 1600, Tycho wrote letters to Galileo which Galileo ignored. Galileo never wrote him back. This was amazing because in 1600, Tycho was far more famous than Galileo.

14th September 2008, 02:39 PM	#6
EventHorizon Atheist Tergiversator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 429	OK, we get it. Every historical figure in the history of the planet was murdered as the result of some sort of conspiracy. Enough.

14th September 2008, 02:41 PM	#7
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by JohnG Life's just one big Hitchcock movie to you, isn't it? I'd like to see an Alfred Hitchcock or Oliver Stone movie about the trail of Galileo. btw - I've decided that Kepler was innocent, and that Tycho was murdered by someone else. I'm not from the pro-Kepler faction, like A. Koestler, by I no longer think that Kepler offed Tycho.

14th September 2008, 03:42 PM	#9
Galileo Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Middleton, WI Posts: 3,050	Originally Posted by MG1962 You are missing the point - Tycho applied the data he had collected to evolve his theory. Kepler never made any secret of where the data he used came from. In fact often when you see a statue of either of them, you find the other close by Tycho and Kepler where the proto-type of much astronomy being done today. Tycho was an exceptional observer, Kepler and exception theorist I agree with that.

16th September 2008, 10:11 AM	#11
NobbyNobbs Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: The Mended Drum Posts: 4,976	Originally Posted by Galileo In 1601, Kepler was very jealous of Tycho Brahe's planetary data. He coveted the data. He poisoned Brahe with mercury. Brahe almost died, then started to recover. But then Kepler poisoned him again and killed him. Recent mercury tests done on the hair of Brahe have proven that he was killed by mercury poisoning. Kepler was sort of a lone nut as well, but he was able to use the data to discover the three laws of planetary motion. Originally Posted by Galileo I'd like to see an Alfred Hitchcock or Oliver Stone movie about the trail of Galileo. btw - I've decided that Kepler was innocent, and that Tycho was murdered by someone else. I'm not from the pro-Kepler faction, like A. Koestler, by I no longer think that Kepler offed Tycho. The OP was posted 9/13 at 3:18 pm my time. The second quoted post was published 9/14 at 4:41 my time, a little more than 25 hours later. What amazing piece of research did you do in that time that changed your mind? And why didn't you complete that research first, before jumping to post, accusing someone of murder?
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16th September 2008, 10:13 AM	#12
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,723	Assuming the mercury thing is true, this little 'Kepler did it' theory ignores details like murder being completely being out of character for Kepler (of course, in the CT world nebbish unassuming and pacifistic people can easily murder thousands of people in the most gruesome manner without batting an eyelash.) It also ignores that Brahe was very, very ,very , very unpopular. He was more infamous than more famous than Galileo. It also ignores that Mercury was used as a treatment for syphillis, despite the known dangers. It was a choice of one devil over the other.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,723	__________________ My Webstore of Telescopes, Science Fun, and More: Spectrum Scientifics! Spectrum Scientifics Store Blog! Last edited by kookbreaker; 16th September 2008 at 10:15 AM.

16th September 2008, 10:49 AM	#13
Piscivore Smelling fishy Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yubaba's Bathhouse Posts: 19,130	I think most of the times Tycho is killed, Gabe is usually somehow responsible.
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16th September 2008, 11:08 AM	#14
learner Muse Join Date: May 2008 Location: A strange land Posts: 725	Originally Posted by JohnG Humpty Dumpty was pushed! He was pulled off the wall I tell ya.. A conspiracy theory is born!
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16th September 2008, 01:36 PM	#15
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 21,723	Kepler is still alive and living in Argentina under the name Hans Bierstein. He is 700 years old.
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16th September 2008, 01:44 PM	#16
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031	Originally Posted by learner He was pulled off the wall I tell ya.. A conspiracy theory is born! At nearly free fall speeds?
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031

16th September 2008, 01:45 PM	#17
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Inside the Magical Murder Bag Posts: 11,813	Originally Posted by Piscivore I think most of the times Tycho is killed, Gabe is usually somehow responsible. Well, Tycho had to be killed. Or else, he may open one of his 7 mouths and start signing the song which will end the world.
	__________________ "Joobz you can be something else sometimes."- DOC "Hopefully joobz can one day be totally objective and unbiased ..." - DOC

16th September 2008, 02:18 PM	#18
Maus Scholar Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: I live in the Seattle area. Posts: 56	I'll have to cut you off here. Was Tycho murdered? Who nose? -Maus

18th September 2008, 08:08 AM	#19
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,049	Originally Posted by kookbreaker It also ignores that Mercury was used as a treatment for syphillis, despite the known dangers. It was a choice of one devil over the other. I'm not familiar with the dangers of wearing a gold alloy prosthetic nose for years on end, but wouldn't contemporary gold alloys have included mercury?
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18th September 2008, 04:57 PM	#20
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 10,131	The Writers of Humpty Dumpty Were Trying to Warn Us I was hesitant to post a derail here, but then I realized, "Whoot! It's a Galileo Conspiracy Thread! What could possibly be off-topic?" So.... ".... had a great fall..."??? They were warning 1970s generations of Yankee Haters of the coming of Reggie Jackson. Who else, but Mr. October could they have been referring to? Surely you don't thing it was The Egg Man? Oh, wait.... they knew Paul Was Dead before he was born. Lennon killed him. Cuckoo-ka-joo....
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18th September 2008, 05:48 PM	#21
Yoink Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,722	Originally Posted by JohnG Humpty Dumpty was pushed! The real giveaway is that they let the King's horses try to put him together again. Horses? Sticking eggs together is delicate work, and they give it to the horses!?! Clearly they wanted him dead.
Yoink Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,722

20th September 2008, 03:02 AM	#22
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031	Originally Posted by Yoink The real giveaway is that they let the King's horses try to put him together again. Horses? Sticking eggs together is delicate work, and they give it to the horses!?! Clearly they wanted him dead. I want to know why the king took such an interest in the murder suicide in the first place
MG1962 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,031

20th September 2008, 06:37 AM	#23
Aitch Apprentice Crud Puppy Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,443	Originally Posted by MG1962 I want to know why the king took such an interest in the murder suicide in the first place It's a conspiracy!!!!
	__________________ There's less to this than meets the eye!

22nd September 2008, 12:07 AM	#24
Ausmerican Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,532	Originally Posted by Galileo I'd like to see an Alfred Hitchcock or Oliver Stone movie about the trail of Galileo. No chance I am afraid. Coppola had Hitchcock poisoned.
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22nd September 2008, 12:42 AM	#25
stilicho Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,012	Maybe we should start a thread: "Science's biggest ********". I am pretty sure that Tartaglia, Galois, and whole team that discovered insulin--Banting, Best, Collip, and MacLeod--would rate highly. Kepler wouldn't even be in the Top 100.
stilicho Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,012	__________________ ** "Suppose you're thinking about a plate of shrimp. Suddenly someone will say, 'Plate' or 'Shrimp' or 'Plate of shrimp,' out of the blue. No explanation and there's no point in looking for one either. It's all part of the cosmic unconsciousness." -- REPO MAN "Life and death are just things you do when you're bored." -- JOHN CALE**

29th September 2008, 12:12 PM	#26
Ian New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 12	I severely doubt that Kepler pulled a Salieri on Brahe (or even that Salieri killed Mozart in the Cask of Amontillado fasion in Amadeus). However, a few years ago when I was studying Brahe so I could play him at the Miami Museum of Science where Jack Horkheimer was hosting National Astronomy Day I came across what may be an interesting connection regarding Brahe and literature. (Sorry I lost the only photo of me in costume with the fake beard.) While reading On Tycho's Island by John Robert Christiansen I found a copy of an engraving of Brahe by Jacques de Gheyn. I was already fascinated by engravings and woodcuts because my last acting job before Brahe was as Dürer. One of Gheyn's works can be viewed at the following webpage where the possible literary connection is discussed you can type in at home.att.net/~numericana/arms/brahe.htm (the Forum won't let me post urls until I've been here a while). Shakespeare was a contemporary of Brahe. According to Isaac Asimov (whom I'm sorry I never met, but whom I affectionately refer to as "Doctor Muttonchops") Shakespeare likely got the idea of writing Hamlet from Saxo Grammaticus. An odd fact about Hamlet is that most of the characters (besides Hamlet, whose name may be an anagram of Amleth) have Latin or Italian names. The webpage I have provided shows the blazons of Brahe (who was royalty) and includes the names "Rosenkrans" and "Gvldensteren". It seems likely that Shakespeare found these names by looking at one of the pieces by Gheyn so he could have characters with Danish names. Ennyway, that's my 2¢ on the topic.
Ian New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 12

30th September 2008, 01:27 AM	#27
Aitch Apprentice Crud Puppy Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,443	Originally Posted by Ian (besides Hamlet, whose name may be an anagram of Amleth) Puts me in mind of a trick some journalist pulled, years and years ago, on a number of the agony aunts who wrote for various womens magazines in the UK. Basically he wrote the same letter to them all, containing the basic plot of Hamlet (mum shacked up with uncle, positive that uncle had murdered father etc) written in the style of a hysterical teenage girl. Signed it Thelma Dane. IIRC only Clare Raynor saw through it; the rest wrote standard AA letters in reply. Always had a certain amount of respect for Clare.
	__________________ There's less to this than meets the eye!