Correlation or Causation? The Internet and Alternative Religion

[geni]

Forum has hicuped again there is seious shortage of a post here

[Foodbunny]

Here is the post that should have been here :/

The Internet is a great tool for spreading information. People who would be afraid of the social consequences of buying a book about lesbianism in their local book store or reserving a Wiccan spellbook at the library can quickly and mostly anonymously find a wealth of information about the taboo topics that they are interested in.

It is also a great tool for role play. From people in IRC channels rolling the dice to see if they can cast Magic Missle at the darkness from people making up personas to gather the attention they feel they need, many folks don characters to fulfill some need or desire they have.

This has lead to what I feel is a kind of one-up-manship in some areas. People trying to make the best web design, tell the most tear-jerking sob story. And possibly, the most alternative of alternative religions.

I am not talking about your momma's alternative religion. Wicca, Satanism, that's all passe in the cool Internet kid's club. I'm talking about Otherkin, Multiples, Soulbonding, and Otakukin. A vocal and very internet active group of people quite sincerely posting about how they are really a wolfdragon living in a human that shares it's body with Rei Ayanami and Alucard. It's a mash of past life experiences, alternate universes, totemic animals, shamanism, and multiple personality disorder -- though don't tell them that.

When most of the people posting in a group are experiencing intense depression it is clearly not caused by neglecting real life for their fantasies, but instead magical ley lines that have been corrupted. They chat endlessly in their live journal communities and ezboards about how some stupid mundane brushed up against their phantom wings and how angry it made them. All of these community groups have the same basic rule: Do not question the claims of others. What is true for one person is true for the group, and nothing must be looked at critically.

What interests me about this is not so much the beliefs themselves, which are essentially role playing taken to an extreme, but rather the evolution of these communities.

Many moons ago it was fringe enough to be a furry and create a persistant anthropomorphic character. After a couple of years more and more people began embracing furry culture, and in reaction a small, vocal group began deciding they really were these characters. Soon a lot of people were deciding that they really were their characters, especially if their characters were dragons, and the Otherkin were born. The approached their otherness in different ways, some claiming to have been a dragon in the past life, some claiming that they got a dragon's soul that was meant to go to another universe, some claiming they were biologically born part dragon and that a Seeming had been put on them to make them appear human.

But some people couldn't pick just one character to be, or one animal they identified with. So both multiples and hybrids were born. Some people decided that they had several different souls in them that were each clear and distinct seperate people from themselves, and that these people could take control at times. Others decided to just mash their totemic animals together and you got leopardwolves, feline horses, and the ever present and incredibly popular wolfdragons.

In recent years, in a move demonstrating incredible creative laziness, and with the introduction of more and more preteens to these communities, came the Soulbonders and Otakukins. Soulbonders are somewhat like Multiples. They believe fictional characters, especially animated ones, live in their heads or souls, and talk to them, worry about them, and occasionally take control of them. It's Imaginary Friends with spirituality smacked on in an attempt to make it less laughable. Otakukin are people who believe they were fictional characters in a past life in an alternate universe. I really was Penny from Inspector Gadget and I have the memories to prove it.

As part of the escalation of weirdness, any of these subcultures can and frequently are mingled, with dragons soulbonding dragons from video games and multiples counting anime characters among their personalities. And the rule of not questioning the claims of each other persists.

So what this post about is less these subcultures and more about this. Would these communities thrive without the Internet? How likely is it that Jane the 27 year old writer would have decided that her hardboiled detective was real and living in her, only he was half dragon and lusting after Sephiroth from FF7 if she hadn't been a part of a furry community 10 years ago and witnessed the escalation of claims? Would Bob the angry teenager feel the need to claim that he only broke things when Raphael the Ninja Turtle was "fronting" if just playing a really hot cheeta was still enough to get him the online attention he craves? How much of this insanity is caused by the Internet's ability to quickly transfer information creating a situation where the attention seeking change fads swiftly and how much would exist in a world where the Internet did not exist?

[geni]

Strange cults have always existed. However the thing that makes these ones look like a product of the internet is that they are not being founded/lead by a strong charismatic leader.

[Dancing David]

It may seem that these are new expressions, but as someone who practise your mother's alternate religion, these issues are exactly the same as the ones you here in any religion, cult or support group. Nowadays they can just find more than three people who agree with them.

Old stuff new hats, it was inevitable that neo paganism would fracture evn more than it already had.

[Luciana]

Very good post, Foodbunny. I don't know, maybe you're right when you say that "extreme woowooness" has been enabled by the internet. But I have an analogy to make. Undoubtedly, the internet has also open new channels of worldwide commerce. The strangest thing to be had, you can bet that someone is interested in selling and another, in buying. Ebay receives millions of people who might end up forming communities of buyers with similar interest. However... another product is just "one click away". E-commerce knows this all too well - they either offer the best deal or you'll buy it somewhere else, because it's so easy.

This is what, I believe, might be happening. No matter how far-fetched your beliefs are, someone out there will be interested to hear. But unlike organized religion throughout the centuries, you can pick another "extreme woowoo" belief with the click of a mouse. There are no geographical barriers. Anonymity. Therefore, much less commitment. I hardly one of these "cults" will ever bear any meaningful reflection in real life, or they're just doomed to be a niche in the internet.

[Yahweh]

That was an interesting post...

However, I dont think there is any worry of the internet spurring new doomsday cults, it doesnt have that kind of effect.

Religions are propagated through emotional appeal. Its true, otherwise people wouldnt be afraid of Hell, no one would claim to feel the "love" of god(s). Reading things on the internet, as I've said before, is impersonal. You dont find the "voice" of Charisma on the internet.

It is unlikely anyone will "drawn" into a cult via the internet, but hey, I bet if you really searched hard enough you could probably find some random 16 year old kids insanely bizarre religion of Vampyrical Orders out there, or perhaps Cthulhu fansites.

NUNC SCIO TENEBRIS LUX, VICTA IACET VIRTUS, NOVEM PORTIS DE UMBRARUM REGNI SIC LUCEAT LUX.
See, a doomsday cult would love to hear me say those words, but they dont carry the same "umph" over the internet... nostalgia...

[Foodbunny]

I know about doomsday cults on the internet and chaos majgickyans who try to summon Cthulhu creatures who post on the internet. What I find interesting is that it appears the one-up-manship is accelerating the evolution of beliefs into stranger and stranger forms to stay "fringe" because it appears that the speed of acceptance is faster.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Great post Foodbunny. I have a co-worker who is sililarly interested in the development of these subcultures. And while social gatherings (like clubs, groups of friends) and underground publishing ('zines and newsletters) would possibly have given rise to these various groups, the Internet has doubless made the splintering and evolution occur faster and spread amongst more people allowing a certain social "critical mass" it would not have achieved in times of slower and less widespread communication.

Plus, and I hate to be cynical, but we have a lot more f***ed up kids running around these days.

Some of it doubless is an intrusion of fantasy life into reality. I used to put myself into D&D scenarios when was a teen, I never "became" my character. I was myself just visualizing a monster and how I'd react. Living in the Bavaria at the time was certainly an influence - there's something about all those trees.

I'm afraid though that an insidious melange of pop culture, disaffected youth, the failure of traditional social structures and rampant woo wooism has screwed these kids up to where they actually believe this stuff. It's far beyond role playing, it's being emotionall and possibly mentally disturbed.

- edited to add that the same thing is occuring in sports and thrill seeking. The bar is constantly being raised on the levels of extremity.

Unfortunately thrill seeking and the validation one gets from the subcultures you mention produce the chemicals we need to feel good. And like drugs... eventually you need more.

[espritch]

You know, the sad thing is that when I first started posting at JREF, I thought I had jumped into the deep end of the internet pool, what with all the evil athiests and such. But apparently, I'm still splashing around in the shallows. Most of the people here are actually pretty normal. The stuff you described is truely weird.

[c4ts]

Those whacky internet religions make Logical Deism seem tame by comparison, but LOOK HOW MUCH MORE MATERIAL THERE IS!!! Gee, Franko could learn something. Like how to get followers, or how to accomplish something. But I suppose the true purpose of Logical Deism is to entertain us and provide enough material for my next Franko comic. And the more material, the better.

By the way, did I mention I was soulbonded to... uh... the dude from Trigun? And I'm also a shapeshifting lizard who happens to be a vampire. And I share my body with a fat hobo who thinks he's Jesus Christ incarnate.

[triadboy]

I'm re-reading (again) Joseph Campbell's The Power Of Myth. [There is also a 6 part video this book is taken from - it's shown every xmas/new years on PBS - you MUST see it. He was absolutely the BEST!] Anyway he addresses your question.

These people are creating myth in their lives. In this age of instant information and daily turmoil - the myth has vanished. However, there is a inner primal need to interact with myths and learn from them. I believe myths are created to satisfy the subconscious.

[c4ts]

I have another explanation: Geeks. Crazy ones.

[Lord Kenneth]

My attitude toward furries is very somethingawful-esque.

I hate 'em.

Freaks.

....thinking you are Rei Ayanami... now, that's just wrong...

The human mind can be very, very pathetic...

In my past life I was... hm, let's see... I was... Lain, yes, from Serial Experiments Lain...

"Hey, LK, what exactly was that all about, that was one screwed up series!"

"I don't know, I only lived through it!"

[slimshady2357]

Quote:

Originally posted by Foodbunny
I know about doomsday cults on the internet and chaos majgickyans who try to summon Cthulhu creatures who post on the internet. What I find interesting is that it appears the one-up-manship is accelerating the evolution of beliefs into stranger and stranger forms to stay "fringe" because it appears that the speed of acceptance is faster.

Wow, I'll say!

Your OP blew me away. I'm not exaclty a hip cool net kid But even I knew a little about the furry stuff you mentioned. But the new wacky stuff?

I could claim I was a freaking cartoon character in a former life and no one is going to question that?

Wow.

Many of these people would have never found each other without the internet. I hope they get some good out of finding people that accept them and still somehow grow out of the insanity. (27 and still at it? )

Thanks for the interesting post FB, even though it scared me a little.

Adam

[Snark]

My take on it is that these interests and obsessions are more along the lines of coping strategies than anything else. I mean, if you don't have much excitement in your life, prone to becoming obsessed with ideas, feel disaffected and alienated from other people, perhaps combined with poor self-esteem and social skills, some of these concepts might be intensely comforting. If you're convinced deep down that you're lonely and alone and cut off, and that you're a weak and ineffectual person, having a half-dragon anime character living in your head as your best friend might be of great comfort. And, like anything you depend on for happines and comfort, it's probably quite easy to become addicted to the idea. When you've got an online community of people just like you that are willing to be your co-dependents if you do the same for them, you're all set.

[Yahzi]

Foodbunny, I think you are right. The internet definitely enables these groups, both by providing a level of anoymity and by bringing fringe groups together. How many furries live in any one town?

The negative side to all this is that we don't have social mechanisms to curb excess. Kind of like the Navajo and alcohol. Mixed in with all the harmless groups are neo-nazis, pedophiles, and Republicans. I think we're going to see more and more incidents.

[TwoShanks]

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahzi
Foodbunny, I think you are right. The internet definitely enables these groups, both by providing a level of anoymity and by bringing fringe groups together. How many furries live in any one town?

Try going to university. There's a furry in my physics class, and I once made the mistake of going to a party held by the scifi society, which resulted in an hour of sitting next to a 20 year old man wearing a tail and ears extolling the virtues of having a "were-otter" behind the bar instead of a "were-rabbit". It was only the alcohol that kept me from insanity that night, I swear.

[c4ts]

Quote:

Originally posted by TwoShanks


Try going to university. There's a furry in my physics class, and I once made the mistake of going to a party held by the scifi society, which resulted in an hour of sitting next to a 20 year old man wearing a tail and ears extolling the virtues of having a "were-otter" behind the bar instead of a "were-rabbit". It was only the alcohol that kept me from insanity that night, I swear.

You're lucky. I got caught up in a 3 hour live vampire role playing game. 3 of them were furries and kept repeating the word "Nosferatu" every few seconds during conversations.

[Hexxenhammer]

Quote:

Originally posted by c4ts


You're lucky. I got caught up in a 3 hour live vampire role playing game. 3 of them were furries and kept repeating the word "Nosferatu" every few seconds during conversations.

This is why I stick to tabletop RPG's. LARPing is just one step beyond for me. I come into contact with enough Comic Book Guy types as it is, I don't need to chance running into one wearing a furry suit too.

[Keneke]

I know about furries. They're not all animals-trapped-in-a-human-body. Most just like cartoon animals. It's the vocal ones that give furry a bad name, just like Christianity. It's quite embarassing.

Went to a local furry con and saw a few freaks, but I also saw normal people. I even saw the normal furs making fun of the freaks.

[Psi Baba]

Quote:

Originally posted by Keneke
I even saw the normal furs making fun of the freaks.

Isn't that a bit like Trekkers making fun of Trekkies?

[Keneke]

Quote:

Originally posted by Psi Baba

Isn't that a bit like Trekkers making fun of Trekkies?

Yes. Of course, this means nothing if you think a person who goes to a Star Trek convention (not dressing up, just going for fun) can still be a normal person. For example, I myself go to a few cons, and I like it as a form of entertainment, but cosplayers and fursuiters are nothing more than an interesting thing to look at. I don't LIVE Star Trek, I just like the shows.

[c4ts]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer


This is why I stick to tabletop RPG's. LARPing is just one step beyond for me. I come into contact with enough Comic Book Guy types as it is, I don't need to chance running into one wearing a furry suit too.

If you have any social skills whatsoever, don't LARP.

[arcticpenguin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Foodbunny
Here is the post that should have been here :/

The Internet is a great tool for spreading information. People who would be afraid of the social consequences of buying a book about lesbianism in their local book store or reserving a Wiccan spellbook at the library can quickly and mostly anonymously find a wealth of information about the taboo topics that they are interested in.
...

You can in fact find sites about Wiccan lesbians. In Google we trust.