McCain wants to reform health care by making it more like the banking system

chipmunk stew · 20th September 2008, 11:57 AM

Ouch. Bad timing, dude.

Quote:

Some time ago, both campaigns were approached by the professional magazine for actuaries, Contingencies, which invited the candidates to present the virtues of their health reform plans. (For the uninitiated, actuaries are professionals charged to estimate long-term costs and risks in insurance and related matters. That somehow makes things funnier.)
Here is the money quote from Senator McCain:

Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation. Consumer-friendly insurance policies will be more available and affordable when there is greater competition among insurers on a level playing field. You should be able to buy your insurance from any willing provider -- the state bureaucracies are no better than national ones. Nationwide insurance markets that ensure broad and vigorous competition will wring out excess costs, overhead, and bloated executive compensation.

Here's the original article: [PDF]

leftysergeant · 20th September 2008, 01:33 PM

Let me get this straight. McCain thinks that loosening or eliminating regulations on business will create more competition between insurers and bring prices down and deliver better services than we have now. We don't even have to put any brakes on merger mania to keep the big guys from gobbling up the little ones. Riiiight!

The GOP keeps screaming about beaurocratrs standing between us and our health care, but he is not worried about an accountant who will make more money denying you the services.

What planet are they beaming these guys in from?

Malerin · 20th September 2008, 02:06 PM

Obama's been talking about it today, and has a new ad out:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 02:16 PM

A good soundbite to use without any context. I'd run it.

leftysergeant · 20th September 2008, 02:28 PM

He is hitting McCain on the issues, instead of just playing McCain's "personalities" game. If personalities entr the discussion at all, it is in the context of McCain's announced philosophy of government.

There is a great difference between mocking Obama's "messiah" image and pointing out McCain's "deregulator" image, especially since McCain deliberately chose that image.

Pointing out McCain's past positions on regulations and his current waffling makes McCain look like a leopard with a can of tan paint trying to sell himself as a lion.

JoeTheJuggler · 20th September 2008, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by corplinx

A good soundbite to use without any context. I'd run it.

Chipmunk cited the entire article. Care to give us any greater context?

Or are you denying that McCain has long been a champion of deregulation?

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

He is hitting McCain on the issues

100 years of war
mccain is thinks mexicans are stupid
mccain is too out of touch to use a computer

Not that McCain's ads are any more honest or correct, but these aren't the issues I had hoped we would be discussing.

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Chipmunk cited the entire article. Care to give us any greater context?

Or are you denying that McCain has long been a champion of deregulation?

Well, perhaps if you understood the current crisis in lending and investment banking I wouldn't have to explain it to you. Suffice to say, government policy helped in large part create this mess through the social engineering of the HUD in connection with Mae/Mac. There's a good village voice article on the subject you might want to read.

The ironic part is the guy who put on us on this road is now the guy trying to investigate traders for short selling the stock.

This isn't strictly a case of regulation or deregulation being a solitary cause. In any case, trying to explain context to you would be like the Allegory of the Cave.

Malerin · 20th September 2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by corplinx

100 years of war
mccain is thinks mexicans are stupid
mccain is too out of touch to use a computer

Not that McCain's ads are any more honest or correct, but these aren't the issues I had hoped we would be discussing.

We're not. This thread is about deregulation and health care.

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 03:42 PM

Edited to Add:
http://www.villagevoice.com/content/printVersion/541234

From the Village Voice no less. Its a long read. Read it before right wingnuts misinterpret on their radio shows.

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Malerin

We're not. This thread is about deregulation and health care.

I was responding to Lefty. Perhaps if you wish to chastise someone about not staying on your topic, you should use better aim.

Malerin · 20th September 2008, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by corplinx

I was responding to Lefty. Perhaps if you wish to chastise someone about not staying on your topic, you should use better aim.

Lefty was talking about deregulation and health care:

Quote:

There is a great difference between mocking Obama's "messiah" image and pointing out McCain's "deregulator" image, especially since McCain deliberately chose that image.

Pointing out McCain's past positions on regulations and his current waffling makes McCain look like a leopard with a can of tan paint trying to sell himself as a lion.

Quote:

Let me get this straight. McCain thinks that loosening or eliminating regulations on business will create more competition between insurers and bring prices down and deliver better services than we have now. We don't even have to put any brakes on merger mania to keep the big guys from gobbling up the little ones. Riiiight!

What did you think he was talking about?

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Lefty was talking about deregulation and health care:

What did you think he was talking about?

You go on ignore for being intentionally obtuse and argumentative for the sake defying all logic or reason. Goodbye.

leftysergeant · 20th September 2008, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by corplinx

Well, perhaps if you understood the current crisis in lending and investment banking I wouldn't have to explain it to you. Suffice to say, government policy helped in large part create this mess through the social engineering of the HUD in connection with Mae/Mac.

It worked fine until a senile old actor started dismantling it and removed a few features he didn't like, like some of the regulations that kept it from being just another backdoor for the investor class to use to loot the treasury.

What FDR designed saved capitalism from itself and the Republicans have never forgiven him for. Now they are breaking it and blaming the Democrats.

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

It worked fine until a senile old actor started dismantling it and removed a few features he didn't like, like some of the regulations that kept it from being just another backdoor for the investor class to use to loot the treasury.

What FDR designed saved capitalism from itself and the Republicans have never forgiven him for. Now they are breaking it and blaming the Democrats.

Are you a real person or just a marxist misinformation bot?

Kthulhut Fhtagn · 20th September 2008, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Obama's been talking about it today, and has a new ad out:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/

Factcheck.org takes issue with this ad.

leftysergeant · 20th September 2008, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by corplinx

Are you a real person or just a marxist misinformation bot?

I am a real liberal.

Laissez-faire capitalism always fails. Milton Friedman should go down in history as one of the perpetrators of the biggest fraud ever committed. Were he still alive, I would love to see him shackled and frog-marched to Chile.

His spirit still moves the GOP, as reflected in some of the cruel tricks they have played on iraq since 2003.

corplinx · 20th September 2008, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Milton Friedman should go down in history as one of the perpetrators of the biggest fraud ever committed. Were he still alive, I would love to see him shackled and frog-marched to Chile.

Seriously, is this just your shtick?

leftysergeant · 20th September 2008, 11:32 PM

The United States has imposed Friedmanite ecconomics, by force of arms, in one case through a surrogate dictator and once directly, on two countries so far.

It has been an ecconomic disaster for the people of those countries and a boondoggle for our investor class, to no benefit for the working class.

Friedmanism sucks and those who believe it works are unfit to hold public office. They do too much damage to the world trying to make it work.

Now, back to the current melt-down. Who was it pushing to lower the reserve requirement for lending institutions? Were they Democrats or Republicans?

20th September 2008, 11:57 AM	#1
chipmunk stew The Spikey Mace of Love and Mercy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SE PA Posts: 7,465	McCain wants to reform health care by making it more like the banking system Ouch. Bad timing, dude. Quote: Some time ago, both campaigns were approached by the professional magazine for actuaries, Contingencies, which invited the candidates to present the virtues of their health reform plans. (For the uninitiated, actuaries are professionals charged to estimate long-term costs and risks in insurance and related matters. That somehow makes things funnier.) Here is the money quote from Senator McCain: Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation. Consumer-friendly insurance policies will be more available and affordable when there is greater competition among insurers on a level playing field. You should be able to buy your insurance from any willing provider -- the state bureaucracies are no better than national ones. Nationwide insurance markets that ensure broad and vigorous competition will wring out excess costs, overhead, and bloated executive compensation. Here's the original article: [PDF]
	__________________

20th September 2008, 02:06 PM	#3
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341	Obama's been talking about it today, and has a new ad out: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341

20th September 2008, 02:16 PM	#4
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	A good soundbite to use without any context. I'd run it.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

20th September 2008, 02:37 PM	#6
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,728	Originally Posted by corplinx A good soundbite to use without any context. I'd run it. Chipmunk cited the entire article. Care to give us any greater context? Or are you denying that McCain has long been a champion of deregulation?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

20th September 2008, 03:33 PM	#7
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by leftysergeant He is hitting McCain on the issues 100 years of war mccain is thinks mexicans are stupid mccain is too out of touch to use a computer Not that McCain's ads are any more honest or correct, but these aren't the issues I had hoped we would be discussing.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

20th September 2008, 01:33 PM	#2
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Let me get this straight. McCain thinks that loosening or eliminating regulations on business will create more competition between insurers and bring prices down and deliver better services than we have now. We don't even have to put any brakes on merger mania to keep the big guys from gobbling up the little ones. Riiiight! The GOP keeps screaming about beaurocratrs standing between us and our health care, but he is not worried about an accountant who will make more money denying you the services. What planet are they beaming these guys in from?

20th September 2008, 02:28 PM	#5
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	He is hitting McCain on the issues, instead of just playing McCain's "personalities" game. If personalities entr the discussion at all, it is in the context of McCain's announced philosophy of government. There is a great difference between mocking Obama's "messiah" image and pointing out McCain's "deregulator" image, especially since McCain deliberately chose that image. Pointing out McCain's past positions on regulations and his current waffling makes McCain look like a leopard with a can of tan paint trying to sell himself as a lion.

20th September 2008, 03:35 PM	#8
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Chipmunk cited the entire article. Care to give us any greater context? Or are you denying that McCain has long been a champion of deregulation? Well, perhaps if you understood the current crisis in lending and investment banking I wouldn't have to explain it to you. Suffice to say, government policy helped in large part create this mess through the social engineering of the HUD in connection with Mae/Mac. There's a good village voice article on the subject you might want to read. The ironic part is the guy who put on us on this road is now the guy trying to investigate traders for short selling the stock. This isn't strictly a case of regulation or deregulation being a solitary cause. In any case, trying to explain context to you would be like the Allegory of the Cave.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671 Last edited by corplinx; 20th September 2008 at 03:38 PM.

20th September 2008, 03:36 PM	#9
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341	Originally Posted by corplinx 100 years of war mccain is thinks mexicans are stupid mccain is too out of touch to use a computer Not that McCain's ads are any more honest or correct, but these aren't the issues I had hoped we would be discussing. We're not. This thread is about deregulation and health care.
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341

20th September 2008, 03:42 PM	#10
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Edited to Add: http://www.villagevoice.com/content/printVersion/541234 From the Village Voice no less. Its a long read. Read it before right wingnuts misinterpret on their radio shows.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

20th September 2008, 03:44 PM	#11
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by Malerin We're not. This thread is about deregulation and health care. I was responding to Lefty. Perhaps if you wish to chastise someone about not staying on your topic, you should use better aim.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

20th September 2008, 03:48 PM	#12
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341	Originally Posted by corplinx I was responding to Lefty. Perhaps if you wish to chastise someone about not staying on your topic, you should use better aim. Lefty was talking about deregulation and health care: Quote: There is a great difference between mocking Obama's "messiah" image and pointing out McCain's "deregulator" image, especially since McCain deliberately chose that image. Pointing out McCain's past positions on regulations and his current waffling makes McCain look like a leopard with a can of tan paint trying to sell himself as a lion. Quote: Let me get this straight. McCain thinks that loosening or eliminating regulations on business will create more competition between insurers and bring prices down and deliver better services than we have now. We don't even have to put any brakes on merger mania to keep the big guys from gobbling up the little ones. Riiiight! What did you think he was talking about?
Malerin Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,341

20th September 2008, 05:31 PM	#13
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by Malerin Lefty was talking about deregulation and health care: What did you think he was talking about? You go on ignore for being intentionally obtuse and argumentative for the sake defying all logic or reason. Goodbye.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

20th September 2008, 05:41 PM	#14
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by corplinx Well, perhaps if you understood the current crisis in lending and investment banking I wouldn't have to explain it to you. Suffice to say, government policy helped in large part create this mess through the social engineering of the HUD in connection with Mae/Mac. It worked fine until a senile old actor started dismantling it and removed a few features he didn't like, like some of the regulations that kept it from being just another backdoor for the investor class to use to loot the treasury. What FDR designed saved capitalism from itself and the Republicans have never forgiven him for. Now they are breaking it and blaming the Democrats.

20th September 2008, 05:46 PM	#15
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by leftysergeant It worked fine until a senile old actor started dismantling it and removed a few features he didn't like, like some of the regulations that kept it from being just another backdoor for the investor class to use to loot the treasury. What FDR designed saved capitalism from itself and the Republicans have never forgiven him for. Now they are breaking it and blaming the Democrats. Are you a real person or just a marxist misinformation bot?
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

20th September 2008, 06:21 PM	#16
Kthulhut Fhtagn Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Somewhere in time and space... Posts: 1,939	Originally Posted by Malerin Obama's been talking about it today, and has a new ad out: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/ Factcheck.org takes issue with this ad.

20th September 2008, 09:55 PM	#17
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by corplinx Are you a real person or just a marxist misinformation bot? I am a real liberal. Laissez-faire capitalism always fails. Milton Friedman should go down in history as one of the perpetrators of the biggest fraud ever committed. Were he still alive, I would love to see him shackled and frog-marched to Chile. His spirit still moves the GOP, as reflected in some of the cruel tricks they have played on iraq since 2003.

20th September 2008, 11:24 PM	#18
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Milton Friedman should go down in history as one of the perpetrators of the biggest fraud ever committed. Were he still alive, I would love to see him shackled and frog-marched to Chile. Seriously, is this just your shtick?
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	__________________ In the tradition of "Stop Silvia!" Stop Hal Bidlack: http://skepticalcommunity.com/forums...hp?f=1&t=28671

20th September 2008, 11:32 PM	#19
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	The United States has imposed Friedmanite ecconomics, by force of arms, in one case through a surrogate dictator and once directly, on two countries so far. It has been an ecconomic disaster for the people of those countries and a boondoggle for our investor class, to no benefit for the working class. Friedmanism sucks and those who believe it works are unfit to hold public office. They do too much damage to the world trying to make it work. Now, back to the current melt-down. Who was it pushing to lower the reserve requirement for lending institutions? Were they Democrats or Republicans?