How did things get this bad?

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

I’m not sure if this is appropriate for the religion and philosophy forum. So if it doesn’t I apologize in advance.

Now, I won’t bother any of you by getting into the specifics of the ranting and raving, all from family members staying in MY home, I listened to last night. But I think I’ll simply deliver a few of the more important details of the utter insanity I listened to last night.

-- Barack Obama is the anti-Christ/a Muslim/a Muslim terrorist/a racist/going to kill us all/only cares about you if you have nine babies and is going to make us all bankrupt and give our money to people with nine babies (no joke).
-- My 16 year old cousin thinks it’s a good idea to crucify Obama, Biden, Michelle Obama, and myself and my father for daring to vote for Barack Obama.
-- The $700 billion bail-out is a liberal conspiracy led by Barack Obama. Seeing as how he is the anti-Christ, he needs control of the banks first so he can take control of the entire world.
-- His middle-name is Hussein, proving he’s a terrorist.
-- My two very young sisters (11 and 8) have been convinced by members of my family that if Barack Obama is elected president they are going to die.
-- Barack Obama is a typical “n*****”
-- The Democrats, and the Democrats alone, are responsible for the economic crisis in a ploy to get Obama elected president.
-- Abortions are sacrifices to Obama (no joke).
-- Barack Obama is black and therefore unqualified to hold any political office.
-- Barack Obama being the anti-Christ is biblical, but don’t ask for the specific scripture it just is.

Now, I’ve known most of my family drank the kool-aid of the very far right a very long time ago. And as most of you may have guessed I’m most angry with my cousin who stated, in all seriousness, that he would like to have me and my father crucified for voting for Obama. I was also deeply angered when my uncle, who has physically assaulted my when I was still a minor, threatened me with violence when I disagreed with him. And of course, I’m also very upset that they have my two very young sisters whipped up into a state of total panic. Especially since they’re all in a state of grieving now having come to the conclusion that McCain will lose the election and thus essentially telling my two sisters they WILL die. It was just after my uncle threatened me that I threatened to call the police if they didn’t leave my house. As they left I also informed most of them that they are no longer welcome in my home.

I’m telling you all this because I want to ask a question and I think it’s necessary to highlight just how much this has affected me. I believe this election has gotten drastically out of hand and in the next few weeks I fear it’s only going to get worse. I especially fear the frenzy some of the people who are as bad as certain members of family may be whipped into assuming Obama will win the presidency.

How exactly did things get this bad? Now I’m very young, 20, so I have no idea if things have always been this bad. Why is it that certain people are incapable of having a civil discussion about politics and the presidential campaign? I don’t expect to change any minds either, the people I’m talking about have huge emotional investment in the election and in the case of my two young sisters who, assuming Obama wins this election, will spend the next 4-8 years fearing that their president intends to cause them physical harm. I hate to say it but my sisters have been indoctrinated rather well, and nothing will convince them otherwise; especially since it’s our mother telling them these things.

Does anybody have any advice? I don’t want to sever ties with my family but this election, and also my admitted atheism, has driven a wedge between us I don’t think we can overcome.

[Scazon]

It was very uncivil of them to call Obama a typical "nitwit". But it all reminds me of my Uncle Joe and his family back in the 60s, when I had a major bustup with them at a family party over Enoch Powell's view of "coloured" immigrants to Britain. It was one of the first times I understood that Christians didn't take their own teachings on charity very seriously, and in the longer term he did me a favour by opening my eyes to the possibility that the Church didn't always mean what it says. The old sod's dead now, so it will have been a shock to him when he got sent to hell for racism And the cousin went to South Africa, enjoyed the life of Larry under apartheid, and bailed out in panic at liberation. He sold up cheap and came home poor and unemployed in the middle of a recession. See the workings of God's justice!

Forget DNA as a definer of "family", it's friends that you choose that you build your life around. If you're stuck in some out-of-the-way town where everyone is related, bale out as soon as you can.

[fagin]

Racism?

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Originally Posted by fagin

Racism?

Lots of that yes, but also the ever-present tingle of religious bigotry brought on from the possibility that he may be Muslim.

[fagin]

Reminds me of a line in a poem in my high school yearbook (just about the only thing I still remember)
'Blood may be thicker than water, but thank god I can choose my own friends'

[CurtC]

Originally Posted by Kthulhut Fhtagn

-- Barack Obama is a typical “n*****”

So which is it, he's your typical "nitwit," or he's the Anti-Christ? Those two seem to be opposing views.

I really don't know what to say - I have never run across any of the craziness like you're describing, so it's all alien to me. This election doesn't seem any more nasty or out of hand than any previous ones I recall (I don't have too much recollection of presidential elections before 1972, because in 1968 I was too young to pay attention to politics). Other than the pretty significant milestone of a person of mixed race (including African) being at the head of a major party ticket, this election seems pretty normal to me.

I'm sorry you're in this situation, but it does seem like it would be entertaining just to see how crazy their statements could get. You know - treat it as fun, goad them into saying the wildest things, maybe take notes of the good ones. But the bit about your sisters is more serious.

[Vic Vega]

Sounds like you need to find a new family...

[Henners]

Fox News?

[Ichneumonwasp]

Things have always been this bad, especially in the run-ups to elections. A favorite used to be to accuse your opponent of frequenting prostitutes and of having syphilis.

I can't recall the name of it, but there is a book that documents many previous elections (some presidential and some not) and the tricks used in them. One I recall included a candidate who successfully accused his opponent of being a "practicing homo sapiens" to the disgust of the crowd.

This type of acrimony goes all the way back to the fights between the Federalists and Democratic Republicans. The Federalists even used the sedition act to convict some of the Democratic Rebublicans -- one was even sentenced to death by hanging for treason (but Adams was losing to Jefferson so he commuted the sentence, so as not to look bad as the election approached).

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Originally Posted by CurtC

So which is it, he's your typical "nitwit," or he's the Anti-Christ? Those two seem to be opposing views.

My mother is under the impression that each new Democratic nominee for the presidency is the anti-Christ. Gore and Kerry certainly were in her opinion.

Quote:

I'm sorry you're in this situation, but it does seem like it would be entertaining just to see how crazy their statements could get.

Their statements can get down-right insane. The other day I decided I had enough of the anti-Christ comments and asserted that John McCain was, in fact, the anti-Christ. Now obviously I don't believe that; I "came out of the science lab" years back. But their reaction was priceless to say the least. My mom responded as expected and simply got angry and attempted to shout me down. Everyone else appeared dumbstruck, they looked at each other in awe for a few moments before one of them actually spoke...and what he said I am not kidding you is an exact quote; "but he's a war hero". That takes the cake. Well, nearly. My dad still believes Obama could be the anti-Christ, just that he'll vote for him becuase he can't prove it. He's told me that if Obama is the anti-Christ he, and I'm not kidding, believes Oprah is the false prophet. I laughed but he actually attempted to reason with me by pointing to "signs", which included things like her influence and her little course on spirituality that he believes is a ploy to lead people to hell. He also buys into the micro-chip thing (name is on the tip of my tongue) as being the sign of beast, bankers are trying to take control of the world but don't realize they're doing it for the anti-Christ, and the Knights Templar could run the world already. So needless to say when my dad says something CTish I tend to flip off the switch to my ears.

Quote:

But the bit about your sisters is more serious.

I'm deeply concerned with how they're being raised. I'm also worried about my younger sister who is alot like me in so many ways. It leads me to believe she's going to question her faith and face years of guilt and fear while she hammers out the details just like I did. My mother's constant certainty that the end is nigh and we need repent never helped, well constantly telling me that I'm going to hell when I die before she knew I was an atheist never helped either. She was never so forward, she'd simply say "I don't know your heart" which if you've ever lived with fundies is code for "I don't believe you're Christian". She would also say that she needed to leave information on her bank account where me and my brother could get when the rapture did happen and left us behind. If you knew her like I did that statement would appear much more condescending than I can make it here. But like I said, the older one is a lot like my brother which means she’ll never think about anything critically. But the younger one is more like me, so I fear she’s going to go through hell in that house coming to terms with her faith or lack-thereof. The whole thing really worries me sometimes.

[I Ratant]

Most of my retired compatriots could really go off on a rag on Obama.. and I get daily e-mails from them that do.
But not as extreme as the OP.
I think a McCain-Biden ticket would be OK.. tossing out the two losers cluttering up the landscape.

[Darth Rotor]

Originally Posted by Kthulhut Fhtagn

How did things get this bad?

Entropy.

[CurtC]

Originally Posted by Kthulhut Fhtagn

She would also say that she needed to leave information on her bank account where me and my brother could get when the rapture did happen and left us behind.

My favorite bumper sticker:


IN CASE OF RAPTURE
Can I have your car?

I think it would be a good idea to stay in contact with your family, for your sisters' benefit. Plus, you could regale us with the stories!

[Autolite]

Sounds like a nasty situation. I can relate to it as I myself had to alienate my entire family many years ago. It was a hard decision but they were becoming a destructive force in my life and cutting them all loose was just a survival measure. We tend to be more tolerant of family just because they are family. It's just human nature. The bottom line is that we can choose our friends but we can't choose our family. If "divorcing" your family is what you need to do then you shouldn't feel ashamed...

[Mister Agenda]

My dad told my sister and her husband they could have his furniture when the rapture comes. They're Presbyterian, you see.

[uruk]

How did things get this bad? Easy. Two parts ignorance mixed with one part religeous fanaticisim.

Nobody wants to think. Thinking is too "hard" and the truth is often "depressing".
It's better to let someone do the thinking for you from the pulpit and fill your head with a soothing fantasy and manufactured boogymen to keep you in line.

This goes on all over the world. The U.S. is not immune.

[SusanB-M1]

OP - A worrying, very wearing situation which could really get you down, but I'd go with autolite's views in #14.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Kthulhut Fhtagn

I’m not sure if this is appropriate for the religion and philosophy forum. So if it doesn’t I apologize in advance.

Now, I won’t bother any of you by getting into the specifics of the ranting and raving, all from family members staying in MY home, I listened to last night. But I think I’ll simply deliver a few of the more important details of the utter insanity I listened to last night.

-- Barack Obama is the anti-Christ/a Muslim/a Muslim terrorist/a racist/going to kill us all/only cares about you if you have nine babies and is going to make us all bankrupt and give our money to people with nine babies (no joke).
-- My 16 year old cousin thinks it’s a good idea to crucify Obama, Biden, Michelle Obama, and myself and my father for daring to vote for Barack Obama.
-- The $700 billion bail-out is a liberal conspiracy led by Barack Obama. Seeing as how he is the anti-Christ, he needs control of the banks first so he can take control of the entire world.
-- His middle-name is Hussein, proving he’s a terrorist.
-- My two very young sisters (11 and 8) have been convinced by members of my family that if Barack Obama is elected president they are going to die.
-- Barack Obama is a typical “n*****”
-- The Democrats, and the Democrats alone, are responsible for the economic crisis in a ploy to get Obama elected president.
-- Abortions are sacrifices to Obama (no joke).
-- Barack Obama is black and therefore unqualified to hold any political office.
-- Barack Obama being the anti-Christ is biblical, but don’t ask for the specific scripture it just is.

Now, I’ve known most of my family drank the kool-aid of the very far right a very long time ago. And as most of you may have guessed I’m most angry with my cousin who stated, in all seriousness, that he would like to have me and my father crucified for voting for Obama. I was also deeply angered when my uncle, who has physically assaulted my when I was still a minor, threatened me with violence when I disagreed with him. And of course, I’m also very upset that they have my two very young sisters whipped up into a state of total panic. Especially since they’re all in a state of grieving now having come to the conclusion that McCain will lose the election and thus essentially telling my two sisters they WILL die. It was just after my uncle threatened me that I threatened to call the police if they didn’t leave my house. As they left I also informed most of them that they are no longer welcome in my home.

I’m telling you all this because I want to ask a question and I think it’s necessary to highlight just how much this has affected me. I believe this election has gotten drastically out of hand and in the next few weeks I fear it’s only going to get worse. I especially fear the frenzy some of the people who are as bad as certain members of family may be whipped into assuming Obama will win the presidency.

How exactly did things get this bad? Now I’m very young, 20, so I have no idea if things have always been this bad. Why is it that certain people are incapable of having a civil discussion about politics and the presidential campaign? I don’t expect to change any minds either, the people I’m talking about have huge emotional investment in the election and in the case of my two young sisters who, assuming Obama wins this election, will spend the next 4-8 years fearing that their president intends to cause them physical harm. I hate to say it but my sisters have been indoctrinated rather well, and nothing will convince them otherwise; especially since it’s our mother telling them these things.

Does anybody have any advice? I don’t want to sever ties with my family but this election, and also my admitted atheism, has driven a wedge between us I don’t think we can overcome.

Two reasons : 1)eight years of Bush AND the republicker congress even before that (under Newt Gingrich) 2) the religious right operating with the republickers. They have tried to destroy the real culture of the US to return us to a time that never really exisited except in their minds - a time of two parent white families who went to church and had no problems except occasional illness, schools full of beaming happy well behaved white kids who loved to watch Code approved happy family films or listen to wholesome family entertainment on the radio all together. (More details available, but it's all as fake and unreal as the creature they worship and the characters they elect - or try too.).

[Safe-Keeper]

Why so many seem to hate Obama with a record passion... from my layman's point of view, I think it has to do with one part racism and one part 9/11. I suppose having an Arabic leader during our 'war on terror' with countries that happen to be Middle Eastern (the facts that Iraqis aren't Arabs and that Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 escapes the minds of most Christian nutters) is comparable in their eyes to having a German running for President in 1944 or a Russian in the Cold War. It's 'letting the fox inside the hen house' so so speak, essentially giving the nation to the enemy. Hence all the 'if he wins the election {horrific thing here} is going to happen' paranoia. That's my guess, at least.

Their double standards and ignorance is fairly stunning, though. Take the nutters who say he's a Muslim extremist and that he will legalize all abortion, disregarding that Islamic fundamentalists hate abortion with, if possible, an even greater passion than do Christian fundamentalists in the States. Or that he's a Muslim fundamentalist and thus worships Satan. I could go on and on.

Can't blame them for their paranoia, though. If I thought there was a Raptor was right around the corner, I'd be scared, too.

Quote:

-- My two very young sisters (11 and 8) have been convinced by members of my family that if Barack Obama is elected president they are going to die.

Disgusting. They'll hopefully come to their senses and become reasonable adults.

[wolfgirl]

First of all, I want to say congratulations to you for having emerged somehow from that family with your reason intact. That's a feat of which you should be immensely proud.

I saw a reporter on TV the other day who was saying that over the course of the past week or so, she's seen a dramatic change in the crowds at the McCain rallies. She said there are always a few crazy people at political rallies (I think she called them "wing-nuts"), but that it was disturbing to her that the recent rallies seem to be made up almost entirely of these types. Witness the shouts from the crowds that have been taped over the last several days at McCain or Palin speeches, shouts of "Terrorist," "Treason," "Traitor" and worse at the mere mention of Obama's name, and I think you can make an argument that things are taking a drastic turn for the worse. We all know someone who won't vote for Obama because his middle name is Hussein or because they "heard" he was a Muslim or whatever. Add in Palin's repeated attempts to tie him to "terrorists" and her being introduced for two different speeches by two different people who felt the need to use Obama's middle name in their opening statements, and I think we have the recipe for things to get really ugly really fast. I think it's even scaring McCain. Did you see the look on his face when someone shouted "Terrorist" at one of his talks? And now he's actually having to defend Obama to his own audiences (one woman insisted Obama was "an Arab").

In other words, your family is not alone in their insanity, but you just have to stay strong in the face of it.

[Safe-Keeper]

Quote:

(one woman insisted Obama was "an Arab").

Indeed very confusing. If blacks are now Arabs, what are Arabs? Blacks? Something else? Or are blacks and Arabs now the same, but only if they're Muslims? In such a case, what about an Arab who's not a Muslim, is he black?

:headache:

[Blackadder]

kidnap your sisters, bomb your uncle and flee the country.

you can hide at my place. We have good education

[Tanstaafl]

I don't think it's always been this bad, but I think it has been before, probably many times. In '68 it was similar, people burning Nixon in effigy, others telling us to leave the country if we didn't support the war. I remember after the Kent State shootings, one of the parents of the dead was interviewed, and said that those kids deserved to die for being part of the anti-war rally. His own kid.

I think it was not nearly so bad for a while after that, but here we go again...

[Safe-Keeper]

Quote:

kidnap your sisters

This idea has crossed my mind, too.

[Ladewig]

Tough call. There is nothing you can say to change his mind. On the other hand, you can show the weakness of his position by asking if he, like any God-fearing Christian, has donated all his money and all his time to McCain in an effort to prevent the anti-Christ from taking over America.

If I were in your position, the only other thing I would try is to let the sisters know that if they get into trouble and are afraid to ask their other relatives for help, they can turn to you.

I will agree that it seems worse now than in the past. Even though the past was pretty bad. E.g. people claiming that Kennedy (the first Catholic to run for president) would be a puppet of the Pope.

As for hoping that it gets better, remember that we are still within living memory of a time when washrooms, drinking fountains, and trains were racially segregated - so expecting pinheads to give up their racism here in the 21st century may be too much.

[Henners]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Can't blame them for their paranoia, though.

Why not? They are the citizens of a democracy. That makes them the people responsible - whether they are responsible people or not.

[kurious_kathy]

Originally Posted by Kthulhut Fhtagn

I’m not sure if this is appropriate for the religion and philosophy forum. So if it doesn’t I apologize in advance.

Now, I won’t bother any of you by getting into the specifics of the ranting and raving, all from family members staying in MY home, I listened to last night. But I think I’ll simply deliver a few of the more important details of the utter insanity I listened to last night.

-- Barack Obama is the anti-Christ/a Muslim/a Muslim terrorist/a racist/going to kill us all/only cares about you if you have nine babies and is going to make us all bankrupt and give our money to people with nine babies (no joke).
-- My 16 year old cousin thinks it’s a good idea to crucify Obama, Biden, Michelle Obama, and myself and my father for daring to vote for Barack Obama.
-- The $700 billion bail-out is a liberal conspiracy led by Barack Obama. Seeing as how he is the anti-Christ, he needs control of the banks first so he can take control of the entire world.
-- His middle-name is Hussein, proving he’s a terrorist.
-- My two very young sisters (11 and 8) have been convinced by members of my family that if Barack Obama is elected president they are going to die.
-- Barack Obama is a typical “n*****”
-- The Democrats, and the Democrats alone, are responsible for the economic crisis in a ploy to get Obama elected president.
-- Abortions are sacrifices to Obama (no joke).
-- Barack Obama is black and therefore unqualified to hold any political office.
-- Barack Obama being the anti-Christ is biblical, but don’t ask for the specific scripture it just is.

Now, I’ve known most of my family drank the kool-aid of the very far right a very long time ago. And as most of you may have guessed I’m most angry with my cousin who stated, in all seriousness, that he would like to have me and my father crucified for voting for Obama. I was also deeply angered when my uncle, who has physically assaulted my when I was still a minor, threatened me with violence when I disagreed with him. And of course, I’m also very upset that they have my two very young sisters whipped up into a state of total panic. Especially since they’re all in a state of grieving now having come to the conclusion that McCain will lose the election and thus essentially telling my two sisters they WILL die. It was just after my uncle threatened me that I threatened to call the police if they didn’t leave my house. As they left I also informed most of them that they are no longer welcome in my home.

I’m telling you all this because I want to ask a question and I think it’s necessary to highlight just how much this has affected me. I believe this election has gotten drastically out of hand and in the next few weeks I fear it’s only going to get worse. I especially fear the frenzy some of the people who are as bad as certain members of family may be whipped into assuming Obama will win the presidency.

How exactly did things get this bad? Now I’m very young, 20, so I have no idea if things have always been this bad. Why is it that certain people are incapable of having a civil discussion about politics and the presidential campaign? I don’t expect to change any minds either, the people I’m talking about have huge emotional investment in the election and in the case of my two young sisters who, assuming Obama wins this election, will spend the next 4-8 years fearing that their president intends to cause them physical harm. I hate to say it but my sisters have been indoctrinated rather well, and nothing will convince them otherwise; especially since it’s our mother telling them these things.

Does anybody have any advice? I don’t want to sever ties with my family but this election, and also my admitted atheism, has driven a wedge between us I don’t think we can overcome.

I have said some of the same things about Obama so I'll apologize if I offend you in these beliefs. The fact is you need to realize people are like the company they keep and Obama's track record is HORRIBLE! I'm sorry but I do believe his cousin in Kenya and he are plotting something more than we could even conteplaint.

The problem is clearly EVIL! Men are evil full of sin because we are born with a fallen nature.The thing I have a hard time with is why people are so blinded by their sin. We have all been born into a fallen world and unless we accept Christ there is no hope. I see Obama as a son of perdition because of his backround and his connections.

I would just suggest we all get on our knees with God to save us.The scriptures are clear that in the last days many mockers would come and evil would grow. Soon they will forbid people to get married and that's totally evil. God ordained marriage,one man, one woman. I say we keep it right with him.

I am a native California girl and am appauled at the legalization of gay marriage. I can't help but notice how the state has been fighting fires ever since they passed that law. I just pray it will be overturned or everyone in my state will suffer for it.

There is plenty of proof that God is and He does act against evil. He will have his time in everyones life dealing with sin. If he hasn't convicted each one of us of our sins then we have an even bigger problem because he has just left us. I know first hand about being chastised and I know it's because my Heavenly Father loves me. We either accept Jesus's authority or we rebel and deny the one truth that sets us sinners free.

As for Obama, he is a sinner like everyone else and as far as I can see he still needs a Savior, then I might trust him because he would be a spirit filled leader. As for McCain I think he's more real than Obama so he's got me and my hubby's vote. The fact that he is pro life won me over. How the heck did the media surpress that important bit of info?

God help us all see the truth that we have sinned against a Holy God and his Son is real and can set us sinners free. I myself like the reassurance of knowing when I meet my maker when he asks me why I think I deserve to enter heaven?, all that will stand is the true test ...I accepted your son and I know Jesus died to redeem me from my sins. Now that's the good news!!

This world is nearing it's end my friend and all evil unrepented sinners without Christ will be condemnded, I suggest you don't let that happen to you! Blessings.... Kathy

[firestorm]

Actually, I think things are getting better. We just like to think they're getting worse so we feel slightly superior to those around us, as if we ourselves would feel more at home with smarter people. Not dissing anyone because I do it too, always telling younger people how we were so much better in the 60's and 70's.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by uruk

This goes on all over the world. The U.S. is not immune.

While I'm not trying to deny that this goes on all over the world, it seems to me that it is more... virulent in the US. Maybe it's just reported more from the US. I dunno.

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I am a native California girl and am appauled at the legalization of gay marriage. I can't help but notice how the state has been fighting fires ever since they passed that law.

California is burning because gays are people too? This is a new low for you, Kathy.

[Olowkow]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

This world is nearing it's end my friend and all evil unrepented sinners without Christ will be condemnded, I suggest you don't let that happen to you! Blessings.... Kathy

I'm curious how you know this, who told you? What evidence do you have? Can't you just let your world end around you, and leave me and my world alone? I happen to be pretty happy and I have no need to even invoke the notion of "sin". You have bought into a world of sadness and delusion, and some of us just don't want any part of that lie.

Have a nice day.

[Safe-Keeper]

Quote:

Quote:

Can't blame them for their paranoia, though.

Why not? They are the citizens of a democracy. That makes them the people responsible - whether they are responsible people or not.

Oh, I blame them for their belief in the Rapture, all right. I meant my post as a joke (a play of words, using 'raptor' instead of 'rapture'), saying that if I ended up (irrationally) believing in the Rapture, I'd be scared too.

Quote:

I am a native California girl and am appauled at the legalization of gay marriage. I can't help but notice how the state has been fighting fires ever since they passed that law. I just pray it will be overturned or everyone in my state will suffer for it.

Pardon the OT Godwin, but why is it that when Hitler massacred gays, it meant hitler was bad, but when God terrorizes gays, it means 'he's acting against evil' and gays are bad? Why is it that so many Christians have this battered spouse syndrome when it comes to their deity?

Is God wrong or was Hitler right? You can't have it both ways.

Quote:

The scriptures are clear that in the last days many mockers would come

Only in the last days? That's like me announcing that in the last days, politicians will lie and water will be wet. People have always scoffed at Christianity, Kathy. What you see today in the US is nothing new, nor particularly severe compared to earlier events. Oh, and Jesus was pretty clear that He would return and bring about the 'Rapture' before the people who lived at the time would die. 2000 years overdue, He is - so much for honesty.

Quote:

and evil would grow.

Again, the US isn't exactly a hellhole of evil and horror compared to many other places in many other times.

[ServiceSoon]

Originally Posted by Kthulhut Fhtagn

How did things get this bad?

This behavior was taught to them by anything they interacted with, especially as children.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I have said some of the same things about Obama so I'll apologize if I offend you in these beliefs. The fact is you need to realize people are like the company they keep and Obama's track record is HORRIBLE! I'm sorry but I do believe his cousin in Kenya and he are plotting something more than we could even conteplaint.

The problem is clearly EVIL! Men are evil full of sin because we are born with a fallen nature.The thing I have a hard time with is why people are so blinded by their sin. We have all been born into a fallen world and unless we accept Christ there is no hope. I see Obama as a son of perdition because of his backround and his connections.

I would just suggest we all get on our knees with God to save us.The scriptures are clear that in the last days many mockers would come and evil would grow. Soon they will forbid people to get married and that's totally evil. God ordained marriage,one man, one woman. I say we keep it right with him.

I am a native California girl and am appauled at the legalization of gay marriage. I can't help but notice how the state has been fighting fires ever since they passed that law. I just pray it will be overturned or everyone in my state will suffer for it.

There is plenty of proof that God is and He does act against evil. He will have his time in everyones life dealing with sin. If he hasn't convicted each one of us of our sins then we have an even bigger problem because he has just left us. I know first hand about being chastised and I know it's because my Heavenly Father loves me. We either accept Jesus's authority or we rebel and deny the one truth that sets us sinners free.

As for Obama, he is a sinner like everyone else and as far as I can see he still needs a Savior, then I might trust him because he would be a spirit filled leader. As for McCain I think he's more real than Obama so he's got me and my hubby's vote. The fact that he is pro life won me over. How the heck did the media surpress that important bit of info?

God help us all see the truth that we have sinned against a Holy God and his Son is real and can set us sinners free. I myself like the reassurance of knowing when I meet my maker when he asks me why I think I deserve to enter heaven?, all that will stand is the true test ...I accepted your son and I know Jesus died to redeem me from my sins. Now that's the good news!!

This world is nearing it's end my friend and all evil unrepented sinners without Christ will be condemnded, I suggest you don't let that happen to you! Blessings.... Kathy

I understand that the other presidential candidate spent at lot of time (years even) with a bunch of Communists? Is this true?

Can you say "Manchurian Candidate"?

It saddens me considerably that there are people on this planet who provide any credence to such idiocy.

May the IPU (bless Her Name) pee on you too.

[TinfoilCat]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I have said some of the same things about Obama so I'll apologize if I offend you in these beliefs. The fact is you need to realize people are like the company they keep and Obama's track record is HORRIBLE! I'm sorry but I do believe his cousin in Kenya and he are plotting something more than we could even conteplaint.

The problem is clearly EVIL! Men are evil full of sin because we are born with a fallen nature.The thing I have a hard time with is why people are so blinded by their sin. We have all been born into a fallen world and unless we accept Christ there is no hope. I see Obama as a son of perdition because of his backround and his connections.

I would just suggest we all get on our knees with God to save us.The scriptures are clear that in the last days many mockers would come and evil would grow. Soon they will forbid people to get married and that's totally evil. God ordained marriage,one man, one woman. I say we keep it right with him.

I am a native California girl and am appauled at the legalization of gay marriage. I can't help but notice how the state has been fighting fires ever since they passed that law. I just pray it will be overturned or everyone in my state will suffer for it.

There is plenty of proof that God is and He does act against evil. He will have his time in everyones life dealing with sin. If he hasn't convicted each one of us of our sins then we have an even bigger problem because he has just left us. I know first hand about being chastised and I know it's because my Heavenly Father loves me. We either accept Jesus's authority or we rebel and deny the one truth that sets us sinners free.

As for Obama, he is a sinner like everyone else and as far as I can see he still needs a Savior, then I might trust him because he would be a spirit filled leader. As for McCain I think he's more real than Obama so he's got me and my hubby's vote. The fact that he is pro life won me over. How the heck did the media surpress that important bit of info?

God help us all see the truth that we have sinned against a Holy God and his Son is real and can set us sinners free. I myself like the reassurance of knowing when I meet my maker when he asks me why I think I deserve to enter heaven?, all that will stand is the true test ...I accepted your son and I know Jesus died to redeem me from my sins. Now that's the good news!!

This world is nearing it's end my friend and all evil unrepented sinners without Christ will be condemnded, I suggest you don't let that happen to you! Blessings.... Kathy

Wait.

Last time I checked, Obama is a Christian, and there is no evidence that implies that he is NOT a Christian. If he is a Christian, who accepts Jesus as his savior, why would he need another savior?

The issue of homosexuality:

Their are "Good" Christians who believe homosexuality is not forbidden or at least not the "ultimate" sin. Both sides of Christianity have their own Biblical "evidence" or "proof" that the opposing side is wrong. The issue of homosexuality shows a great hypocrisy from both sides by the name calling and the various other methods of defaming each other, all in the name of God.

Also, provide the proof that the world is nearing its end, from the Bible or from anything else.

On the issue of your family believing that end is near or that Obama is the anti-christ...

A Christian perspective:

Tell them to actually READ the Bible thoroughly, instead of listening to what apocalyptic preachers tell them whats in the Bible. 90 percent of the time, apocalyptic preachers who deal with the rapture, anti-christ, and so on, do not do extensive research on the topic. Christian eschatology is the essence of complexity and majority of the futurist teachings are un-biblical in the first place.

Where in the Bible does it say "Obama shall be the anti-christ".

The whole futurist apocalypse thing is beginning to bug me. They spew claims which have no true biblical back up and claim that we shall all raptured into Heaven while un-believers suffer in Hell. Why would any follower of Christ, who must love and not judge, literally WANT people to burn in "Hell".

[Safe-Keeper]

Quote:

Why would any follower of Christ, who must love and not judge, literally WANT people to burn in "Hell".

For the same reason there were citizens of East Germany who wanted people to 'disappear' and be sent to work camps, I suppose.

[TinfoilCat]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

For the same reason there were citizens of East Germany who wanted people to 'disappear' and be sent to work camps, I suppose.

Hiding behind religion to express their unrighteous bigotry and rage?

I'm guessing this is why atheists and other non-Christians think were all irrational, hypocritical, nincompoops. (Were not ALL like this... well maybe some of us...)

[Ladewig]

Originally Posted by TinfoilCat

Wait.

Last time I checked, Obama is a Christian, and there is no evidence that implies that he is NOT a Christian. If he is a Christian, who accepts Jesus as his savior, why would he need another savior?

Quoted for relevance.

Of course when KK says "I have said some of the same things about Obama," I suppose it is possible that she is referring to assertion that Obama is a secret Muslim. KK, please tell us that you are not so out of touch with reality to believe that Obama is either the anti-Christ or a Muslim.

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

Soon they will forbid people to get married and that's totally evil.

They will forbid marriage?! WTF are you talking about?

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I am a native California girl and am appauled at the legalization of gay marriage. I can't help but notice how the state has been fighting fires ever since they passed that law. I just pray it will be overturned or everyone in my state will suffer for it.

Have you ever read the Bible KK? Scriptures clearly and unambiguously state that idolatry and blasphemy are by far the most serious sins. They go well beyond any admonition to eschew gay sex. Why don't you California Christians try to outlaw idolatry with the same fervor that you try to outlaw homosexuality? The number of idolaters in California must be several times the number of homosexuals. Or better yet, why don't you Christians mind your own business and stop trying to legislate Christianity. We are not a Christian nation nor should we try to be.

[godless dave]

Don't feed the Kurious Troll.

Regarding the OP, I think there have always been people like your family around, but we are at one of those periods in American history where some politicians are courting them more than usual, and as a result they are more visible than usual.

[wolfgirl]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

As for McCain I think he's more real than Obama so he's got me and my hubby's vote. The fact that he is pro life won me over. How the heck did the media surpress that important bit of info?

Nobody's been suppressing it. Everyone knows where McCain stands on abortion; it's just that most Americans are pro-choice, like Obama.

[wolfgirl]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy

I am a native California girl and am appauled at the legalization of gay marriage. I can't help but notice how the state has been fighting fires ever since they passed that law. I just pray it will be overturned or everyone in my state will suffer for it.

So your wonderful, kind, gentle, loving god is punishing everyone in the state for the decision of a few? Wow, what a guy! After all, no kind and loving god would want all of his children to be treated equally, would he?

It must be weird to live in a world where you see everything as some sort of reaction or response by an invisible man in the sky. When there are floods or hurricanes or earthquakes in places without gay marriage, how do you explain them? Or how do you explain when entire countries, like Canada, allow gay marriage, and they haven't been destroyed by avalanches or something?