McCain POW interview footage released.

BenBurch · 22nd October 2008, 03:05 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ow-video_N.htm

Quote:

PARIS (AP) — A French national archive has posted online extended footage of Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain being interviewed as a bedridden prisoner during the Vietnam War.

French reporter Francois Chalais conducted the interview. His widow says the online release this week of 4 minutes, 33 seconds of footage is the fullest distribution of the interview since it first aired four decades ago.

gtc · 22nd October 2008, 05:03 PM

I wonder what impact this will have. Any thoughts?

moon1969 · 22nd October 2008, 05:11 PM

So what if McCain was a POW? Lots of other people were too. Besides USA betrayed South Vietnam and the Shah of Iran. I wouldn"t be surprised if the USA turns its back to Mikheil Saakashvili and Viktor Yushchenko. USA will probaly just let North Korea bully South Korea and Japan. USA would betray Hamid Karzai, Nouri al-Maliki and Jalal Talabani if they could

Cleon · 22nd October 2008, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by gtc

I wonder what impact this will have. Any thoughts?

Unless he said something like "I pledge allegiance to Ho Chi Minh," probably not much.

Though McCain might try to use it in a campaign ad or something.

mortimer · 22nd October 2008, 05:26 PM

Here's a direct link to the video, so you don't have to click through multiple pages to get to it:

http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/i...tice=I08290030

thaiboxerken · 22nd October 2008, 05:37 PM

I really don't understand why people think being a POW is a credential for becoming the President.

Tony · 22nd October 2008, 05:39 PM

This is very interesting from a historical perspective, but I see no reason why this would effect the campaign for good or ill.

Roadtoad · 22nd October 2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by moon1969

So what if McCain was a POW? Lots of other people were too. Besides USA betrayed South Vietnam and the Shah of Iran. I wouldn"t be surprised if the USA turns its back to Mikheil Saakashvili and Viktor Yushchenko. USA will probaly just let North Korea bully South Korea and Japan. USA would betray Hamid Karzai, Nouri al-Maliki and Jalal Talabani if they could

Wow. That was sure insightful and helpful, Moon.

mortimer · 22nd October 2008, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I really don't understand why people think being a POW is a credential for becoming the President.

Who thinks that?

ryanebelhar · 22nd October 2008, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by mortimer

Who thinks that?

By ryanebelhar

BenBurch · 22nd October 2008, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by gtc

I wonder what impact this will have. Any thoughts?

I doubt it will have ANY effect.

But I've wondered what became of this footage, and now it is in the historical record.

WildCat · 22nd October 2008, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I really don't understand why people think being a POW is a credential for becoming the President.

4 years ago the Dems seemed to think serving in Vietnam was the #1 qualification for the POTUS. "Reporting for duty" and all that.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

BenBurch · 22nd October 2008, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

4 years ago the Dems seemed to think serving in Vietnam was the #1 qualification for the POTUS. "Reporting for duty" and all that.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

No, only Kerry thought that. The rest of us groaned and tried to ignore it.

But you know, there was this guy who spoke at this convention. A young feller from Illinois who seemed to have a whole world of promise...

I wonder what ever happened to him?

joobz · 22nd October 2008, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

4 years ago the Dems seemed to think serving in Vietnam was the #1 qualification for the POTUS. "Reporting for duty" and all that.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

And if I remember, republicans mocked and insulted his service. Remember the purple heart bandaides.

Funny that..

Eddie Dane · 23rd October 2008, 02:56 AM

Have a look at Israel, where they keep electing people on the basis of their military career.
Sharon, Barak, Nethanyahu. Oh what miracle workers they are.

Oliver · 23rd October 2008, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by mortimer

Here's a direct link to the video, so you don't have to click through multiple pages to get to it:

http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/i...tice=I08290030

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Meadmaker · 23rd October 2008, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

No, only Kerry thought that. The rest of us groaned and tried to ignore it.

I know I nearly fell out of my chair when he did that stupid salute. I knew that I would be seeing it in Republican campaign ads.

Worst campaign ever, I thought. I didn't think he could have lost that election, but he fought hard and proved me wrong.

The Painter · 23rd October 2008, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by joobz

And if I remember, republicans mocked and insulted his service. Remember the purple heart bandaides.

Funny that..

The Republicans didn't have to mock him. He did it to himself. Threw his medals away, said he was a war criminal. He dug his own grave on that.

McCain does not deride his service. Kerry did.

Upchurch · 23rd October 2008, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by The Painter

The Republicans didn't have to mock him.

And yet, they did. A lot.

The POW video is powerful (although it is hard to hear what is being said over the French translation). Will it impact the campaign? I would hope not. If it does, that means people are allowing emotion to sway their voting rather than the issues.

Nursefoxfire · 23rd October 2008, 08:19 AM

That poor guy. My heart was breaking watching the pain and fear in his eyes

I wonder during which part of his imprisonment this took place?

The things people do to each other, I swear

dudalb · 23rd October 2008, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane

Have a look at Israel, where they keep electing people on the basis of their military career.
Sharon, Barak, Nethanyahu. Oh what miracle workers they are.

Itzhak Rabin worked out pretty good, though.

Roadtoad · 23rd October 2008, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Nursefoxfire

That poor guy. My heart was breaking watching the pain and fear in his eyes

I wonder during which part of his imprisonment this took place?

The things people do to each other, I swear

Early on. He wasn't released until '73, I think. At the same time as all the other POWs.

Interesting thing about McCain: he could have left early. Being from a high ranking military family, he was offered a chance to go home. All he had to do was sign off on a "confession" of war crimes. He refused, choosing instead to remain with all the other POWs. As a result, he can't lift his arms above his head. He was so badly abused by his captors, it nearly cost him his life.

Sad how people forget that part of McCain's legacy.

I'm reminded of reading of a number of other prisoners. One, James Rowe, had a metal pipe rammed down his throat, and was bent backwards, causing incredible pain, all to cause him to "confess." His escape, which he chronicled in his book, Five Years To Freedom, is riveting, to say the least.

At no point has North Vietnam EVER apologized for their violations of the Geneva Accords.

It's funny: When the 52 hostages held during the Iran Crisis were freed, we held a party. When American POWs, people who had served honorably, and suffered horribly, came home, we hid our eyes.

And we're proud of that.

Tell me why, please.

tomwaits · 23rd October 2008, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

At no point has North Vietnam EVER apologized for their violations of the Geneva Accords.

Don't worry about it. We're cool with the Vietnamese.

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/librar...ts_id=187283-1

Magyar · 23rd October 2008, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

Early on. He wasn't released until '73, I think. At the same time as all the other POWs.

Interesting thing about McCain: he could have left early. Being from a high ranking military family, he was offered a chance to go home. All he had to do was sign off on a "confession" of war crimes. He refused, choosing instead to remain with all the other POWs. As a result, he can't lift his arms above his head. He was so badly abused by his captors, it nearly cost him his life.

Sad how people forget that part of McCain's legacy.

I'm reminded of reading of a number of other prisoners. One, James Rowe, had a metal pipe rammed down his throat, and was bent backwards, causing incredible pain, all to cause him to "confess." His escape, which he chronicled in his book, Five Years To Freedom, is riveting, to say the least.

At no point has North Vietnam EVER apologized for their violations of the Geneva Accords.

It's funny: When the 52 hostages held during the Iran Crisis were freed, we held a party. When American POWs, people who had served honorably, and suffered horribly, came home, we hid our eyes.

And we're proud of that.

Tell me why, please.

First of all - Horse hockey ! Tell me again what would have happened to McCain or any of the other prisoners if they signed that dock when they got home again!? charge starts with T and ends with reason and a cozy room in Leavenworth.

Second - I am sick to death of hearing about how he served as if that entitles him to some special dispensation for being a moron now!
The RS article made it quite clear that he took full advantage of the benies that came from
wearing a uniform. No one twisted his arm to join or go, and he understand the risks associated with going to war. He got hurt, thems the breaks get the F*** over it.

Now before you give me the "You hate the troops bullflop" I am not saying that we shouldn't give the best treatment possible to our wounded soldiers (Which by the way is MORE than what McCain voted for) or that they don't deserve some level of special treatment because of their service - GI bill etc.

But being a naval aviator some 35+ years ago has about as much to do with being president as how good a hook shot Obama has. The fact that he (McCain) and his supporters continue to harp on the service only says one thing about McCain.

He is an old blowhard who has nothing to show and nothing of substance to say and thinks that he is owed something special for doing what was expected of him and nothing more then a whole bunch of other poor bastards who don't remind us every other minute about how they served did.

Roadtoad · 23rd October 2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Magyar

First of all - Horse hockey ! Tell me again what would have happened to McCain or any of the other prisoners if they signed that dock when they got home again!? charge starts with T and ends with reason and a cozy room in Leavenworth.

Second - I am sick to death of hearing about how he served as if that entitles him to some special dispensation for being a moron now!
The RS article made it quite clear that he took full advantage of the benies that came from
wearing a uniform. No one twisted his arm to join or go, and he understand the risks associated with going to war. He got hurt, thems the breaks get the F*** over it.

Now before you give me the "You hate the troops bullflop" I am not saying that we shouldn't give the best treatment possible to our wounded soldiers (Which by the way is MORE than what McCain voted for) or that they don't deserve some level of special treatment because of their service - GI bill etc.

But being a naval aviator some 35+ years ago has about as much to do with being president as how good a hook shot Obama has. The fact that he (McCain) and his supporters continue to harp on the service only says one thing about McCain.

He is an old blowhard who has nothing to show and nothing of substance to say and thinks that he is owed something special for doing what was expected of him and nothing more then a whole bunch of other poor bastards who don't remind us every other minute about how they served did.

You obviously haven't read any of my other posts regarding McCain. But, just to bring you up to speed: Sorry. I don't think he's Presidential material. (For that matter, neither is Obama.) There's a lot I respect regarding both men. That doesn't mean they'll make good presidents.

I was responding to one post, and only one post. If that's a problem, let me know.

joobz · 23rd October 2008, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by The Painter

The Republicans didn't have to mock him. He did it to himself. Threw his medals away, said he was a war criminal. He dug his own grave on that.

McCain does not deride his service. Kerry did.

That's a big heaping pile of no-sequitor

Roadtoad · 23rd October 2008, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by joobz

That's a big heaping pile of no-sequitor

How? Seems to be a pretty solid explanation of what Kerry did.

22nd October 2008, 03:05 PM	#1
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,189	McCain POW interview footage released. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ow-video_N.htm Quote: PARIS (AP) — A French national archive has posted online extended footage of Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain being interviewed as a bedridden prisoner during the Vietnam War. French reporter Francois Chalais conducted the interview. His widow says the online release this week of 4 minutes, 33 seconds of footage is the fullest distribution of the interview since it first aired four decades ago.
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

22nd October 2008, 05:13 PM	#4
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,534	Originally Posted by gtc I wonder what impact this will have. Any thoughts? Unless he said something like "I pledge allegiance to Ho Chi Minh," probably not much. Though McCain might try to use it in a campaign ad or something.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

22nd October 2008, 05:26 PM	#5
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 3,478	Here's a direct link to the video, so you don't have to click through multiple pages to get to it: http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/i...tice=I08290030
	__________________ "why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid

22nd October 2008, 05:37 PM	#6
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,970	I really don't understand why people think being a POW is a credential for becoming the President.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

22nd October 2008, 05:39 PM	#7
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,767	This is very interesting from a historical perspective, but I see no reason why this would effect the campaign for good or ill.
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

22nd October 2008, 05:03 PM	#2
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,114	I wonder what impact this will have. Any thoughts?

22nd October 2008, 05:11 PM	#3
moon1969 Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,288	So what if McCain was a POW? Lots of other people were too. Besides USA betrayed South Vietnam and the Shah of Iran. I wouldn"t be surprised if the USA turns its back to Mikheil Saakashvili and Viktor Yushchenko. USA will probaly just let North Korea bully South Korea and Japan. USA would betray Hamid Karzai, Nouri al-Maliki and Jalal Talabani if they could

22nd October 2008, 05:39 PM	#8
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by moon1969 So what if McCain was a POW? Lots of other people were too. Besides USA betrayed South Vietnam and the Shah of Iran. I wouldn"t be surprised if the USA turns its back to Mikheil Saakashvili and Viktor Yushchenko. USA will probaly just let North Korea bully South Korea and Japan. USA would betray Hamid Karzai, Nouri al-Maliki and Jalal Talabani if they could Wow. That was sure insightful and helpful, Moon.

22nd October 2008, 05:44 PM	#9
mortimer NWO Janitor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 3,478	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken I really don't understand why people think being a POW is a credential for becoming the President. Who thinks that?
	__________________ "why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid

22nd October 2008, 05:56 PM	#10
ryanebelhar Thinker Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 194	Originally Posted by mortimer Who thinks that? By ryanebelhar

22nd October 2008, 06:35 PM	#11
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,189	Originally Posted by gtc I wonder what impact this will have. Any thoughts? I doubt it will have ANY effect. But I've wondered what became of this footage, and now it is in the historical record.
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

23rd October 2008, 02:56 AM	#15
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,424	Have a look at Israel, where they keep electing people on the basis of their military career. Sharon, Barak, Nethanyahu. Oh what miracle workers they are.

23rd October 2008, 04:46 AM	#17
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Detroit suburbs Posts: 11,454	Originally Posted by BenBurch No, only Kerry thought that. The rest of us groaned and tried to ignore it. I know I nearly fell out of my chair when he did that stupid salute. I knew that I would be seeing it in Republican campaign ads. Worst campaign ever, I thought. I didn't think he could have lost that election, but he fought hard and proved me wrong.
	__________________ Dave "War is Peace. Freedom is slavery. Particles are waves."

23rd October 2008, 05:00 AM	#18
The Painter Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York Posts: 2,656	Originally Posted by joobz And if I remember, republicans mocked and insulted his service. Remember the purple heart bandaides. Funny that.. The Republicans didn't have to mock him. He did it to himself. Threw his medals away, said he was a war criminal. He dug his own grave on that. McCain does not deride his service. Kerry did.

23rd October 2008, 05:53 AM	#19
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,426	Originally Posted by The Painter The Republicans didn't have to mock him. And yet, they did. A lot. The POW video is powerful (although it is hard to hear what is being said over the French translation). Will it impact the campaign? I would hope not. If it does, that means people are allowing emotion to sway their voting rather than the issues.

23rd October 2008, 08:19 AM	#20
Nursefoxfire Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,197	That poor guy. My heart was breaking watching the pain and fear in his eyes I wonder during which part of his imprisonment this took place? The things people do to each other, I swear

23rd October 2008, 11:05 AM	#21
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,837	Originally Posted by Eddie Dane Have a look at Israel, where they keep electing people on the basis of their military career. Sharon, Barak, Nethanyahu. Oh what miracle workers they are. Itzhak Rabin worked out pretty good, though.

23rd October 2008, 04:21 PM	#22
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by Nursefoxfire That poor guy. My heart was breaking watching the pain and fear in his eyes I wonder during which part of his imprisonment this took place? The things people do to each other, I swear Early on. He wasn't released until '73, I think. At the same time as all the other POWs. Interesting thing about McCain: he could have left early. Being from a high ranking military family, he was offered a chance to go home. All he had to do was sign off on a "confession" of war crimes. He refused, choosing instead to remain with all the other POWs. As a result, he can't lift his arms above his head. He was so badly abused by his captors, it nearly cost him his life. Sad how people forget that part of McCain's legacy. I'm reminded of reading of a number of other prisoners. One, James Rowe, had a metal pipe rammed down his throat, and was bent backwards, causing incredible pain, all to cause him to "confess." His escape, which he chronicled in his book, Five Years To Freedom, is riveting, to say the least. At no point has North Vietnam EVER apologized for their violations of the Geneva Accords. It's funny: When the 52 hostages held during the Iran Crisis were freed, we held a party. When American POWs, people who had served honorably, and suffered horribly, came home, we hid our eyes. And we're proud of that. Tell me why, please.

23rd October 2008, 04:48 PM	#23
tomwaits Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 2,288	Originally Posted by Roadtoad At no point has North Vietnam EVER apologized for their violations of the Geneva Accords. Don't worry about it. We're cool with the Vietnamese. http://www.c-spanarchives.org/librar...ts_id=187283-1

23rd October 2008, 06:50 PM	#24
Magyar Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the edge of reason Posts: 1,546	Originally Posted by Roadtoad Early on. He wasn't released until '73, I think. At the same time as all the other POWs. Interesting thing about McCain: he could have left early. Being from a high ranking military family, he was offered a chance to go home. All he had to do was sign off on a "confession" of war crimes. He refused, choosing instead to remain with all the other POWs. As a result, he can't lift his arms above his head. He was so badly abused by his captors, it nearly cost him his life. Sad how people forget that part of McCain's legacy. I'm reminded of reading of a number of other prisoners. One, James Rowe, had a metal pipe rammed down his throat, and was bent backwards, causing incredible pain, all to cause him to "confess." His escape, which he chronicled in his book, Five Years To Freedom, is riveting, to say the least. At no point has North Vietnam EVER apologized for their violations of the Geneva Accords. It's funny: When the 52 hostages held during the Iran Crisis were freed, we held a party. When American POWs, people who had served honorably, and suffered horribly, came home, we hid our eyes. And we're proud of that. Tell me why, please. First of all - Horse hockey ! Tell me again what would have happened to McCain or any of the other prisoners if they signed that dock when they got home again!? charge starts with T and ends with reason and a cozy room in Leavenworth. Second - I am sick to death of hearing about how he served as if that entitles him to some special dispensation for being a moron now! The RS article made it quite clear that he took full advantage of the benies that came from wearing a uniform. No one twisted his arm to join or go, and he understand the risks associated with going to war. He got hurt, thems the breaks get the F*** over it. Now before you give me the "You hate the troops bullflop" I am not saying that we shouldn't give the best treatment possible to our wounded soldiers (Which by the way is MORE than what McCain voted for) or that they don't deserve some level of special treatment because of their service - GI bill etc. But being a naval aviator some 35+ years ago has about as much to do with being president as how good a hook shot Obama has. The fact that he (McCain) and his supporters continue to harp on the service only says one thing about McCain. He is an old blowhard who has nothing to show and nothing of substance to say and thinks that he is owed something special for doing what was expected of him and nothing more then a whole bunch of other poor bastards who don't remind us every other minute about how they served did.
	__________________ "There is no heresy or no philosophy which is so abhorrent to the church as a human being." James Joyce Due to recent cutbacks the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.

23rd October 2008, 06:58 PM	#25
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by Magyar First of all - Horse hockey ! Tell me again what would have happened to McCain or any of the other prisoners if they signed that dock when they got home again!? charge starts with T and ends with reason and a cozy room in Leavenworth. Second - I am sick to death of hearing about how he served as if that entitles him to some special dispensation for being a moron now! The RS article made it quite clear that he took full advantage of the benies that came from wearing a uniform. No one twisted his arm to join or go, and he understand the risks associated with going to war. He got hurt, thems the breaks get the F*** over it. Now before you give me the "You hate the troops bullflop" I am not saying that we shouldn't give the best treatment possible to our wounded soldiers (Which by the way is MORE than what McCain voted for) or that they don't deserve some level of special treatment because of their service - GI bill etc. But being a naval aviator some 35+ years ago has about as much to do with being president as how good a hook shot Obama has. The fact that he (McCain) and his supporters continue to harp on the service only says one thing about McCain. He is an old blowhard who has nothing to show and nothing of substance to say and thinks that he is owed something special for doing what was expected of him and nothing more then a whole bunch of other poor bastards who don't remind us every other minute about how they served did. You obviously haven't read any of my other posts regarding McCain. But, just to bring you up to speed: Sorry. I don't think he's Presidential material. (For that matter, neither is Obama.) There's a lot I respect regarding both men. That doesn't mean they'll make good presidents. I was responding to one post, and only one post. If that's a problem, let me know.

23rd October 2008, 07:15 PM	#26
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,497	Originally Posted by The Painter The Republicans didn't have to mock him. He did it to himself. Threw his medals away, said he was a war criminal. He dug his own grave on that. McCain does not deride his service. Kerry did. That's a big heaping pile of no-sequitor
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

23rd October 2008, 07:25 PM	#27
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by joobz That's a big heaping pile of no-sequitor How? Seems to be a pretty solid explanation of what Kerry did.