FREE TAPATALK APP

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 09:02 PM

Backwoods of Arizona
Somewhere on the Mogollon Rim
Election 2008

I'm afraid that I've been a bit of a backslider since my post 911 resolution to being more politically interested and active. Politics is hard and mostly unrewarding work for a cynic...

Arizona is a good place to be the only candidate running. Many of the real battles are at the primary level, with little or no opposition at the actual election. This one is pretty typical, and not much local stuff of interest going on.

A bright spot is that The Evil Rick Renzi(R) is not running for reelection so the race for District 1 has been very noisy. Turn-about is fair play and the Republicans are pretty much getting back the mud buckets they gave Democrats in previous two elections - in the form of extensive negative campaigning against Arizona Republicans courtesy of the national Democratic party. There's a lesson in there but I doubt anyone is listening.

I really dislike this aspect about the national party system – political money raised from less contested districts in other states can be focused here, where we poor but honest Arizona farmers, Coopers, and woodcutters have little hope of overcoming the influence of big money out of state financing from places like New York and Texas.

So anyhoo, continuing my limited tradition... this is an update on Arizona politics, which I know most of the free world watches with baited breath and edge of the seat interest.

Feel free to jump in and ask questions or congratulate us on our march toward a more democratic and free society. (blah blah blah)

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 09:15 PM

As noted in my earlier take on the 2004 & 2006 elections, Arizona has an public initiative system where if you can get enough signatures on a petition you can put them to a vote on the ballot.

A cynic might say that the practical effect of this is that if you are a special interest group but can't afford your own politician - you can write one of these up and hire people to collect signatures. (In the past we have had interesting little problems like petitions being worded slightly differently...)

We call these little gems of legislation "Propositions". My personal policy is to just vote "No" on them all unless there is a compelling reason.

So let's take a look at this year's crop:

Prop 100
"A yes vote shall have the effect of prohibiting any new tax, fee, or other assessment on the sale, purchase, or other conveyance of real estate after Dec 31, 2007."

Heh heh heh, sponsored by the Realtors. There aren't any such taxes now, they are just looking to the future I guess. Uh, I'm remaining 'no' on this one.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 09:30 PM

Prop 101
A yes vote shall have the effect of prohibiting laws that restrict a person's choice of private health care systems or private plans, interfere with a person or an entity's right to pay for lawful medical services, and impose a penalty or fine for choosing to obtain or decline health care coverage or for participation in any health care system or plan.

This is a good example of how well written most of the Props are. You could probably start a smoking club and call it a health care system. Nothing here that says the system needs to be good for you....

Uh, "no".

Prop 102
Amends the Arizona Constitution to define marriage as a union between one man and one woman... etc etc.

No. And when the US Supreme Court someday overturns all these state 'initiatives' as being unconstitutional we can use it as a reminder of how wrong headed we were.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 09:36 PM

Prop 105
This one cracked me up. A yes vote requires a majority of registered voters approve any initiative establishing, imposing, or raising a tax, fee, or other revenue.

So the effect of this is that if you don't vote, you voted "no".
Sheesh, I don't even think this is constitutional, it probably violates the civil rights act. Did you know that Arizona is one of the states that is watched by the federal government because of civil rights voting violations in the 60's?

I'll see if I can find some links to that.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 09:41 PM

I know, these are all so interesting. There's a only couple more props.

I shall take a short break to thank all the volunteers who work at the polling places tomorrow. My window overlooks our polling place at the local elementary school. Volunteers were in this evening getting everything ready for tomorrow. They always do a great job and I've never seen any animosity between party members. They all rock.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 10:01 PM

Ok here's the thing on voting I mentioned earlier. Sorry, that was the Voting Rights Act.

Arizona is a 'pre-clearance' state, that is, the feds don't trust us with changing voting laws.

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act

Section 5 of the Act requires that the United States Department of Justice, through an administrative procedure, or a three-judge panel of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, through a declaratory judgment action "preclear" any attempt to change “any voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure with respect to voting..." in any "covered jurisdiction." The Supreme Court gave a broad interpretation to the words "any voting qualification or prerequisite to voting" in Allen v. State Board of Election, 393 U.S. 544 (1969). A covered jurisdiction that seeks to obtain Section 5 Pre-clearance, either from the United States Attorney General or the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, must demonstrate that a proposed voting change does not have the purpose and will not have the effect of discriminating based on race or color. In some cases, they must also show that the proposed change does not have the purpose or effect of discriminating against a "language minority group." Membership in a language minority group includes "persons who are American Indian, Asian American, Alaskan Natives or of Spanish heritage." The burden of proof under current Section 5 jurisprudence is on the covered jurisdiction to establish that the proposed change does not have a retrogressive purpose.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 10:17 PM

Prop 200
"payday loan reform act"
LOL... this one is sponsored by the payday loan companies that charge something like 300% interest. If I vote no they will go away in 2010.

An interesting side note on this one is that the United Way has taken a political stand to vote NO on this one. I think is the first time they have taken a political stand on something.

I'm ok with 'no' on this too.

Prop 201
Yawn. Something about providing a 10 year warranty on a new house. More buyer protection. Humm this one might be ok but I'm not sure enough to vote yes.
Sheesh who is buying houses right now?

Prop 202
A law to try and fix a previously passed bad proposition-law that I voted no on the first time because it was a crappy law and would run new busineses off. I say let Arizonans stew in bad propositions for a while longer, maybe the word will get out.

The bad law this is trying to fix can let the state take your business license away if they find out you hired an illegal alien. Arizona is finding out that new would-be-businesses coming into the state are not quite so hot on this one.

I haven't made up my mind yet on this one, I might vote yes in a sort of lesser of evil way.

Prop 300
Woohoo! Pay raises all around for the State Legislators! This one always seems to get on the ballot and it warms my cynical cockles.

Pfffft. No.

gtc · 3rd November 2008, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Kopji

Prop 105
This one cracked me up. A yes vote requires a majority of registered voters approve any initiative establishing, imposing, or raising a tax, fee, or other revenue.

So the effect of this is that if you don't vote, you voted "no".
Sheesh, I don't even think this is constitutional, it probably violates the civil rights act. Did you know that Arizona is one of the states that is watched by the federal government because of civil rights voting violations in the 60's?

I'll see if I can find some links to that.

Does that mean they would need to vote on raising bus or light rail* fares?

*Do I get bonus points for being up to date?

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 10:49 PM

So much for the Arizona Props. Bleah.

There's a bunch of single candidate offerings. I usually vote for them because if nothing else I appreciate the effort it takes to try and represent people like me.

It sometimes surprises people outside the US that every state does not have the same list of candidates to vote for. This is another thing I'd like to see changed someday.

In Arizona 2008, we have the following Presidential choices:
Obama (dem)
McCain (rep)
Barr (lbt)
McKinney (grn)
Nader (none)
Write-in

No mention of running mates, and the candidates have a list of names under them which as far as I can tell are the electoral college electors they would get if they won.

I'm voting for Obama.

He could have failed in a lot of places this year but didn't. I don't see his willingness to consider a wide spectrum of viewpoints as a detriment. If I have a concern, it is that a thoughtful deliberative style is sometimes slow to act when quick action is needed. I guess I balance that risk with the expectation he'd be surrounded with experienced people who can act when talk is not enough. A risk free life would be really boring.

The only other race worth mentioning is congressional dist 1. The Ex-Rick Renzi race.
The republicans found a sufficiently distasteful person in Sydney Hay to run in his place. As far as I can tell, she is a bit more like Dick Cheney than George Bush.

Ann Kirtpatrick is sort of a typical liberal lawyer that could do well for Democrats.

The libertarian candidate is Thane Eichenauer. I was a little optimistic reading about him in the paper. He is an ex Baha'i cum Taoist computer geek. I looked into him a little and all I could find was some blog entries on http://jonkyl.blogspot.com/
I can't decide if he's hijacked Jon Kyl's name for his blog or not. Most of my blogspot text shows up in kanji due to some kind of system font problem with Windows I've never bothered to fix. He could at least have his own page somewhere. My spidey senses don't like him, maybe that means I would not vote for myself if I ran.

I'll probably go with Ann just because it would piss my work buddies off.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by gtc

Does that mean they would need to vote on raising bus or light rail* fares?

*Do I get bonus points for being up to date?

As far as I can tell it could only impact the proposition process tax increases, not a normal legislative process tax increase. So there is nothing to keep your taxes from going up other ways.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 10:56 PM

Well off to bed. I think I'll try voting early in case they run out of ballots.

Kopji · 3rd November 2008, 10:59 PM

He don look like no Taoist to me.

Kopji · 4th November 2008, 05:59 AM

IMHO voting is best done after a short walk through the woods, which works out well because that is the shortest way to the polling place. I walked up about 6am to hear a volunteer announce in an official sounding voice: "The polls are now open". Maybe a long tradition that I've never seen...

The weather is nice: crisp and some clouds starting to move in. Weather said that there is a chance of snow showers this evening. Still dark at 6am though.

Our voting location is at the local school gym and consists of 10 'regular' voting booths and one fancy Diebold electronic one that is probably blind accessible. The Diebold booth takes a card to activate the screen so it was hard to tell what benefit it offered. Not much privacy at the booth though, the line already snaked right past it.

There were not that many cars in the parking lot, but there is already a line of about 40 people snaking from the sign-in desk to the wall and curving around to the entry door.

There are three or four sign in stations. The first one checks your identification, which can be a lot of things but not a passport. You are then given a slip with a number which is handed to the next volunteer. That is checked against a list and you have to sign you name in a blank space by your name. The next volunteer hands you a ballot and quickly describes how to fill it out.

Our ballots are paper, on a heavy legal sized sheet that has two sides to fill out. It looks exactly like the sample ballot I used earlier to describe the voting. We wait in a short line to wait for one of the ten booths to open up. The booths are very simple desks. They have a black felt pen for filling in the ballots.

There are some advantages to paper ballots that are not easily appreciated until you do it. If there were huge crowds, all they would need to do is set up more tables and get more pens. It is easy to accommodate wheelchairs or other special voting needs. A power failure due to bad weather would not prevent voting, just the counting. Black pens mean no chads and a physical record of votes. The paper is plain white and easily recyclable.

After marking the choices, the completed ballots are taken over to an electronic counting machine and inserted into a slot that sucks it in. You can have a privacy sleeve if you want, and the ballot can be inserted either side up. There is a simple counter that shows it was accepted.

A slight irregularity in all this is that the counting machine is next to the Diebold machine, that is in the middle of the line of people. The machines are pretty much where they always are, it is the long line that is unusual. This makes the process potentially less private, but everyone was sort of treating it like an ATM (cash machine) and politely not trying to see how you voted.

The sun was starting to come up when I left, very red sky to the east and clouds moving in from the west. The line was about the same length when I left as when I arrived.

Kopji · 5th November 2008, 07:36 PM

Results
Obviously Obama won.
McCain carried his home state.
Dem Kirkpatrick won District 1
Coconino County was 57% for Obama, 41.3% for McCain

Props
100 Passed
101 Failed
102 Passed
105 Failed
200 Failed
201 Failed
202 Failed
300 Failed

The anti-gay marriage 102 hand bills had very cheery lettering with colorful splashes, proclaiming "Marriage: Yes!". I'll see if I can get a picture of one.

You can find more details on this blog, in which the 'comment' section would be completely hilarious if stupidity were a laughing matter.

"DONT WORRY DAVID THIS PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT"

Kopji · 5th November 2008, 07:49 PM

My wife voted later in the day and got right in without waiting in line. She missed the nice sunrise though. I can't tell her anything at all, but I left my sample ballot carelessly lying on the counter. She used it to vote, LOL.

I ended up voting no on all the props after rereading the couple that I was considering voting yes on. Call it a reconsider...

I voted for Kirkpatrick. I've been known to be a bit centrist on local candidates and she is a bit too lawyery for me. But what the heck.
I'm sure that Sydney Hay is a nice person but I don't think they could have found a woman more like Dick Cheney if they took a decade. Voting against her had a pleasant aftertaste like I was voting against Cheney - very sweet. Hay got 40%. Maybe Republicans will get tired of wasting their money on extremists and find a more moderate candidate next time. Or not.

Kopji · 5th November 2008, 08:27 PM

Here's the ubiquitous pro 102 sticker:

Oh hey, yeah sure I'm for marriage!

The embarrassment was expected and yes, the vote spread is not really explained by Arizona's gleeful enthusiasm for keeping voters confused. People do feel this way and honestly voted.

Although the state of Arizona does not recognize gay marriage, our company could not be competitive in the job market if we did NOT provide same-sex life partner benefits; we have done so for years. It may take many more years, but an accepting and inclusive corporate climate will eventually have it's effect on public policy.

3rd November 2008, 09:02 PM	#1
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Arizona Backwoods - Election 2008 Backwoods of Arizona Somewhere on the Mogollon Rim Election 2008 I'm afraid that I've been a bit of a backslider since my post 911 resolution to being more politically interested and active. Politics is hard and mostly unrewarding work for a cynic... Arizona is a good place to be the only candidate running. Many of the real battles are at the primary level, with little or no opposition at the actual election. This one is pretty typical, and not much local stuff of interest going on. A bright spot is that The Evil Rick Renzi(R) is not running for reelection so the race for District 1 has been very noisy. Turn-about is fair play and the Republicans are pretty much getting back the mud buckets they gave Democrats in previous two elections - in the form of extensive negative campaigning against Arizona Republicans courtesy of the national Democratic party. There's a lesson in there but I doubt anyone is listening. I really dislike this aspect about the national party system – political money raised from less contested districts in other states can be focused here, where we poor but honest Arizona farmers, Coopers, and woodcutters have little hope of overcoming the influence of big money out of state financing from places like New York and Texas. So anyhoo, continuing my limited tradition... this is an update on Arizona politics, which I know most of the free world watches with baited breath and edge of the seat interest. Feel free to jump in and ask questions or congratulate us on our march toward a more democratic and free society. (blah blah blah)

3rd November 2008, 09:15 PM	#2
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	As noted in my earlier take on the 2004 & 2006 elections, Arizona has an public initiative system where if you can get enough signatures on a petition you can put them to a vote on the ballot. A cynic might say that the practical effect of this is that if you are a special interest group but can't afford your own politician - you can write one of these up and hire people to collect signatures. (In the past we have had interesting little problems like petitions being worded slightly differently...) We call these little gems of legislation "Propositions". My personal policy is to just vote "No" on them all unless there is a compelling reason. So let's take a look at this year's crop: Prop 100 "A yes vote shall have the effect of prohibiting any new tax, fee, or other assessment on the sale, purchase, or other conveyance of real estate after Dec 31, 2007." Heh heh heh, sponsored by the Realtors. There aren't any such taxes now, they are just looking to the future I guess. Uh, I'm remaining 'no' on this one.

3rd November 2008, 09:30 PM	#3
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Prop 101 A yes vote shall have the effect of prohibiting laws that restrict a person's choice of private health care systems or private plans, interfere with a person or an entity's right to pay for lawful medical services, and impose a penalty or fine for choosing to obtain or decline health care coverage or for participation in any health care system or plan. This is a good example of how well written most of the Props are. You could probably start a smoking club and call it a health care system. Nothing here that says the system needs to be good for you.... Uh, "no". Prop 102 Amends the Arizona Constitution to define marriage as a union between one man and one woman... etc etc. No. And when the US Supreme Court someday overturns all these state 'initiatives' as being unconstitutional we can use it as a reminder of how wrong headed we were.

3rd November 2008, 09:36 PM	#4
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Prop 105 This one cracked me up. A yes vote requires a majority of registered voters approve any initiative establishing, imposing, or raising a tax, fee, or other revenue. So the effect of this is that if you don't vote, you voted "no". Sheesh, I don't even think this is constitutional, it probably violates the civil rights act. Did you know that Arizona is one of the states that is watched by the federal government because of civil rights voting violations in the 60's? I'll see if I can find some links to that.

3rd November 2008, 09:41 PM	#5
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	I know, these are all so interesting. There's a only couple more props. I shall take a short break to thank all the volunteers who work at the polling places tomorrow. My window overlooks our polling place at the local elementary school. Volunteers were in this evening getting everything ready for tomorrow. They always do a great job and I've never seen any animosity between party members. They all rock.

3rd November 2008, 10:01 PM	#6
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Ok here's the thing on voting I mentioned earlier. Sorry, that was the Voting Rights Act. Arizona is a 'pre-clearance' state, that is, the feds don't trust us with changing voting laws. Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act Section 5 of the Act requires that the United States Department of Justice, through an administrative procedure, or a three-judge panel of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, through a declaratory judgment action "preclear" any attempt to change “any voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure with respect to voting..." in any "covered jurisdiction." The Supreme Court gave a broad interpretation to the words "any voting qualification or prerequisite to voting" in Allen v. State Board of Election, 393 U.S. 544 (1969). A covered jurisdiction that seeks to obtain Section 5 Pre-clearance, either from the United States Attorney General or the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, must demonstrate that a proposed voting change does not have the purpose and will not have the effect of discriminating based on race or color. In some cases, they must also show that the proposed change does not have the purpose or effect of discriminating against a "language minority group." Membership in a language minority group includes "persons who are American Indian, Asian American, Alaskan Natives or of Spanish heritage." The burden of proof under current Section 5 jurisprudence is on the covered jurisdiction to establish that the proposed change does not have a retrogressive purpose.

3rd November 2008, 10:17 PM	#7
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Prop 200 "payday loan reform act" LOL... this one is sponsored by the payday loan companies that charge something like 300% interest. If I vote no they will go away in 2010. An interesting side note on this one is that the United Way has taken a political stand to vote NO on this one. I think is the first time they have taken a political stand on something. I'm ok with 'no' on this too. Prop 201 Yawn. Something about providing a 10 year warranty on a new house. More buyer protection. Humm this one might be ok but I'm not sure enough to vote yes. Sheesh who is buying houses right now? Prop 202 A law to try and fix a previously passed bad proposition-law that I voted no on the first time because it was a crappy law and would run new busineses off. I say let Arizonans stew in bad propositions for a while longer, maybe the word will get out. The bad law this is trying to fix can let the state take your business license away if they find out you hired an illegal alien. Arizona is finding out that new would-be-businesses coming into the state are not quite so hot on this one. I haven't made up my mind yet on this one, I might vote yes in a sort of lesser of evil way. Prop 300 Woohoo! Pay raises all around for the State Legislators! This one always seems to get on the ballot and it warms my cynical cockles. Pfffft. No.

3rd November 2008, 10:19 PM	#8
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,114	Originally Posted by Kopji Prop 105 This one cracked me up. A yes vote requires a majority of registered voters approve any initiative establishing, imposing, or raising a tax, fee, or other revenue. So the effect of this is that if you don't vote, you voted "no". Sheesh, I don't even think this is constitutional, it probably violates the civil rights act. Did you know that Arizona is one of the states that is watched by the federal government because of civil rights voting violations in the 60's? I'll see if I can find some links to that. Does that mean they would need to vote on raising bus or light rail* fares? *Do I get bonus points for being up to date?

3rd November 2008, 10:49 PM	#9
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	So much for the Arizona Props. Bleah. There's a bunch of single candidate offerings. I usually vote for them because if nothing else I appreciate the effort it takes to try and represent people like me. It sometimes surprises people outside the US that every state does not have the same list of candidates to vote for. This is another thing I'd like to see changed someday. In Arizona 2008, we have the following Presidential choices: Obama (dem) McCain (rep) Barr (lbt) McKinney (grn) Nader (none) Write-in No mention of running mates, and the candidates have a list of names under them which as far as I can tell are the electoral college electors they would get if they won. I'm voting for Obama. He could have failed in a lot of places this year but didn't. I don't see his willingness to consider a wide spectrum of viewpoints as a detriment. If I have a concern, it is that a thoughtful deliberative style is sometimes slow to act when quick action is needed. I guess I balance that risk with the expectation he'd be surrounded with experienced people who can act when talk is not enough. A risk free life would be really boring. The only other race worth mentioning is congressional dist 1. The Ex-Rick Renzi race. The republicans found a sufficiently distasteful person in Sydney Hay to run in his place. As far as I can tell, she is a bit more like Dick Cheney than George Bush. Ann Kirtpatrick is sort of a typical liberal lawyer that could do well for Democrats. The libertarian candidate is Thane Eichenauer. I was a little optimistic reading about him in the paper. He is an ex Baha'i cum Taoist computer geek. I looked into him a little and all I could find was some blog entries on http://jonkyl.blogspot.com/ I can't decide if he's hijacked Jon Kyl's name for his blog or not. Most of my blogspot text shows up in kanji due to some kind of system font problem with Windows I've never bothered to fix. He could at least have his own page somewhere. My spidey senses don't like him, maybe that means I would not vote for myself if I ran. I'll probably go with Ann just because it would piss my work buddies off.

3rd November 2008, 10:51 PM	#10
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Originally Posted by gtc Does that mean they would need to vote on raising bus or light rail* fares? *Do I get bonus points for being up to date? As far as I can tell it could only impact the proposition process tax increases, not a normal legislative process tax increase. So there is nothing to keep your taxes from going up other ways.

3rd November 2008, 10:56 PM	#11
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Well off to bed. I think I'll try voting early in case they run out of ballots.

3rd November 2008, 10:59 PM	#12
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	He don look like no Taoist to me.

4th November 2008, 05:59 AM	#13
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	IMHO voting is best done after a short walk through the woods, which works out well because that is the shortest way to the polling place. I walked up about 6am to hear a volunteer announce in an official sounding voice: "The polls are now open". Maybe a long tradition that I've never seen... The weather is nice: crisp and some clouds starting to move in. Weather said that there is a chance of snow showers this evening. Still dark at 6am though. Our voting location is at the local school gym and consists of 10 'regular' voting booths and one fancy Diebold electronic one that is probably blind accessible. The Diebold booth takes a card to activate the screen so it was hard to tell what benefit it offered. Not much privacy at the booth though, the line already snaked right past it. There were not that many cars in the parking lot, but there is already a line of about 40 people snaking from the sign-in desk to the wall and curving around to the entry door. There are three or four sign in stations. The first one checks your identification, which can be a lot of things but not a passport. You are then given a slip with a number which is handed to the next volunteer. That is checked against a list and you have to sign you name in a blank space by your name. The next volunteer hands you a ballot and quickly describes how to fill it out. Our ballots are paper, on a heavy legal sized sheet that has two sides to fill out. It looks exactly like the sample ballot I used earlier to describe the voting. We wait in a short line to wait for one of the ten booths to open up. The booths are very simple desks. They have a black felt pen for filling in the ballots. There are some advantages to paper ballots that are not easily appreciated until you do it. If there were huge crowds, all they would need to do is set up more tables and get more pens. It is easy to accommodate wheelchairs or other special voting needs. A power failure due to bad weather would not prevent voting, just the counting. Black pens mean no chads and a physical record of votes. The paper is plain white and easily recyclable. After marking the choices, the completed ballots are taken over to an electronic counting machine and inserted into a slot that sucks it in. You can have a privacy sleeve if you want, and the ballot can be inserted either side up. There is a simple counter that shows it was accepted. A slight irregularity in all this is that the counting machine is next to the Diebold machine, that is in the middle of the line of people. The machines are pretty much where they always are, it is the long line that is unusual. This makes the process potentially less private, but everyone was sort of treating it like an ATM (cash machine) and politely not trying to see how you voted. The sun was starting to come up when I left, very red sky to the east and clouds moving in from the west. The line was about the same length when I left as when I arrived.

5th November 2008, 07:36 PM	#14
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Results Obviously Obama won. McCain carried his home state. Dem Kirkpatrick won District 1 Coconino County was 57% for Obama, 41.3% for McCain Props 100 Passed 101 Failed 102 Passed 105 Failed 200 Failed 201 Failed 202 Failed 300 Failed The anti-gay marriage 102 hand bills had very cheery lettering with colorful splashes, proclaiming "Marriage: Yes!". I'll see if I can get a picture of one. You can find more details on this blog, in which the 'comment' section would be completely hilarious if stupidity were a laughing matter. "DONT WORRY DAVID THIS PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT"

5th November 2008, 07:49 PM	#15
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	My wife voted later in the day and got right in without waiting in line. She missed the nice sunrise though. I can't tell her anything at all, but I left my sample ballot carelessly lying on the counter. She used it to vote, LOL. I ended up voting no on all the props after rereading the couple that I was considering voting yes on. Call it a reconsider... I voted for Kirkpatrick. I've been known to be a bit centrist on local candidates and she is a bit too lawyery for me. But what the heck. I'm sure that Sydney Hay is a nice person but I don't think they could have found a woman more like Dick Cheney if they took a decade. Voting against her had a pleasant aftertaste like I was voting against Cheney - very sweet. Hay got 40%. Maybe Republicans will get tired of wasting their money on extremists and find a more moderate candidate next time. Or not.

5th November 2008, 08:27 PM	#16
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Here's the ubiquitous pro 102 sticker: Oh hey, yeah sure I'm for marriage! The embarrassment was expected and yes, the vote spread is not really explained by Arizona's gleeful enthusiasm for keeping voters confused. People do feel this way and honestly voted. Although the state of Arizona does not recognize gay marriage, our company could not be competitive in the job market if we did NOT provide same-sex life partner benefits; we have done so for years. It may take many more years, but an accepting and inclusive corporate climate will eventually have it's effect on public policy.