unicorns in the bible

Johnny Pneumatic · 1st November 2003, 09:33 AM

Apologists say unicorn in the bible is a rino. Rino have two horns don't they?

geni · 1st November 2003, 09:44 AM

It depends on the species. The indian rhino and the Javan rhino both have only one horn.

Eddited to ad photo

sophia8 · 1st November 2003, 09:56 AM

Which passage in the Bible mentions unicorns? AFAIK, unicorns were only ever mentioned in European folklore.
And Rhinos usually have two horns, but can sometimes have only one.

ETA: After a bit more searching, it seems that the unicorn myth may have orginated in China and been exported to the middle East and Europe via the spice trade; the Chinese unicorn, however, appears to have started out as a one-horned goat. For more info on this topic: Zhi: the Chinese Unicorn

Johnny Pneumatic · 1st November 2003, 09:56 AM

could the writers of the bible have known of Indian and Javan rhinos?

geni · 1st November 2003, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
could the writers of the bible have known of Indian and Javan rhinos?

Posible through travlers tails. Anyway I think the antilope theory works much better.

again eddited to add picture

Johnny Pneumatic · 1st November 2003, 10:08 AM

maybe thats what the author was talking about. The apologists
will have a hard time with the bible's "Fiery Flying Serpents".

Chaos · 1st November 2003, 10:42 AM

I once read an essay by Isaac Asimov saying that "unicorn horns" were probably the horns of orca (killer whales). These horns sometimes broke off and stuck in ships´ hulls, and the sailors sold them as unicorn horns to superstitious landlubbers.

geni · 1st November 2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaos
I once read an essay by Isaac Asimov saying that "unicorn horns" were probably the horns of orca (killer whales). These horns sometimes broke off and stuck in ships´ hulls, and the sailors sold them as unicorn horns to superstitious landlubbers.

are you sure you don't mean a narwhal

Johnny Pneumatic · 1st November 2003, 11:19 AM

those whales are cool.

Johnny Pneumatic · 1st November 2003, 11:21 AM

they are teeth; not horns.

Chaos · 1st November 2003, 11:24 AM

I don´t remember that essay very well. Maybe he really said "narwhales". I would make sense, at least.

Teeth? Outside the mouth? Maybe you mean "tusks".

geni · 1st November 2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chaos
I don´t remember that essay very well. Maybe he really said "narwhales". I would make sense, at least.

Teeth? Outside the mouth? Maybe you mean "tusks".

They atcherly are teeth. When the narwhale reaches a certian age on of its teeth grows into that long spike. In some cases this process goes slightly wrong and you end up with a two spiked whale.

Marc · 1st November 2003, 12:38 PM

Unicorns, dragons, cockatrice, satyrs, talking serpents and donkeys, flying fiery serpents. That is not even getting into the real weird stuff of Revelation.

Johnny Pneumatic · 1st November 2003, 01:08 PM

The writer of Rev. must have been on mushrooms.

zakur · 1st November 2003, 01:17 PM

From this article: UNICORNS, SATYRS, AND THE BIBLE:

Quote:

It is evident once again that the Bible does not lower itself to superstitious mythology.

Ratman_tf · 2nd November 2003, 01:21 AM

It's always tickled me that fundamentalists say the bible is innerant, but only argue that Noah and the Flood and a young earth creation are literally true, but hold that Revelations is all allegory. If the bible is literal truth, wouldn't that mean Revelations is gonna be all giant 12 headed goats eating people and angels with swords running around hacking down buildings and forests and stuff? And beasts rising out of the sea? Not to mention the 'mark of the beast' is gonna be a 666 tattoed to your forehead, and not some WTO chip implant...

Leif Roar · 2nd November 2003, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
Apologists say unicorn in the bible is a rino. Rino have two horns don't they?

From Encyclopædia Britannica: Certain poetical passages of the biblical Old Testament refer to a strong and splendid horned animal called re 'em. This word was translated “unicorn” or “rhinoceros” in many versions of the Bible, but many modern translations prefer “wild ox” (aurochs), which is the correct meaning of the Hebrew re 'em.

Seems to be another case of poor translations.

neutrino_cannon · 2nd November 2003, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geni

Posible through travlers tails. Anyway I think the antilope theory works much better.

again eddited to add picture

That's an oryx in't it?

Is that a thylacaine in your avatar zakur? Always try the australian version of a wolf eh?

Hah! I'll bet there's no thylacaines in the bible!

And where's that wierd unicorn poster from a while back?

Anyway, unicorns seem unlikely to me, because ungulates with horns are typically even toed, and horses are odd toed.

Of course, unicorns ares sometimes shown with cloven hooves.

1st November 2003, 09:33 AM	#1
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	unicorns in the bible Apologists say unicorn in the bible is a rino. Rino have two horns don't they?

1st November 2003, 10:42 AM	#7
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,775	I once read an essay by Isaac Asimov saying that "unicorn horns" were probably the horns of orca (killer whales). These horns sometimes broke off and stuck in ships´ hulls, and the sailors sold them as unicorn horns to superstitious landlubbers.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

1st November 2003, 11:24 AM	#11
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,775	I don´t remember that essay very well. Maybe he really said "narwhales". I would make sense, at least. Teeth? Outside the mouth? Maybe you mean "tusks".
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

1st November 2003, 12:38 PM	#13
Marc Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,165	Unicorns, dragons, cockatrice, satyrs, talking serpents and donkeys, flying fiery serpents. That is not even getting into the real weird stuff of Revelation.
Marc Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,165	__________________ So many cults, not enough comets. A child of 5 could understand this! Quick, someone fetch a child of 5! "Scientology is evil; its techniques are evil; its practice is a serious threat to the community, medically, morally, and socially; and its adherents are sadly deluded and often mentally ill... (Scientology is) the world's largest organization of unqualified persons engaged in the practice of dangerous techniques which masquerade as mental therapy." Justice Anderson, Supreme Court of Victoria, Australia

1st November 2003, 01:17 PM	#15
zakur Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,265	From this article: UNICORNS, SATYRS, AND THE BIBLE: Quote: It is evident once again that the Bible does not lower itself to superstitious mythology.
	__________________ "I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." -Thomas Carlyle "That's the problem these days: nobody thinks of the tumors." -steinhenge

1st November 2003, 09:44 AM	#2
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,551	It depends on the species. The indian rhino and the Javan rhino both have only one horn. Eddited to ad photo

1st November 2003, 09:56 AM	#3
sophia8 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In the dark, dark forest.... Posts: 2,251	Which passage in the Bible mentions unicorns? AFAIK, unicorns were only ever mentioned in European folklore. And Rhinos usually have two horns, but can sometimes have only one. ETA: After a bit more searching, it seems that the unicorn myth may have orginated in China and been exported to the middle East and Europe via the spice trade; the Chinese unicorn, however, appears to have started out as a one-horned goat. For more info on this topic: Zhi: the Chinese Unicorn

1st November 2003, 09:59 AM	#5
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,551	Quote: Originally posted by bewareofdogmas could the writers of the bible have known of Indian and Javan rhinos? Posible through travlers tails. Anyway I think the antilope theory works much better. again eddited to add picture

1st November 2003, 10:08 AM	#6
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	maybe thats what the author was talking about. The apologists will have a hard time with the bible's "Fiery Flying Serpents".

1st November 2003, 10:47 AM	#8
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,551	Quote: Originally posted by Chaos I once read an essay by Isaac Asimov saying that "unicorn horns" were probably the horns of orca (killer whales). These horns sometimes broke off and stuck in ships´ hulls, and the sailors sold them as unicorn horns to superstitious landlubbers. are you sure you don't mean a narwhal

1st November 2003, 11:19 AM	#9
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	those whales are cool.

1st November 2003, 11:21 AM	#10
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	they are teeth; not horns.

1st November 2003, 11:28 AM	#12
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,551	Quote: Originally posted by Chaos I don´t remember that essay very well. Maybe he really said "narwhales". I would make sense, at least. Teeth? Outside the mouth? Maybe you mean "tusks". They atcherly are teeth. When the narwhale reaches a certian age on of its teeth grows into that long spike. In some cases this process goes slightly wrong and you end up with a two spiked whale.

1st November 2003, 01:08 PM	#14
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	The writer of Rev. must have been on mushrooms.

2nd November 2003, 01:21 AM	#16
Ratman_tf Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,002	It's always tickled me that fundamentalists say the bible is innerant, but only argue that Noah and the Flood and a young earth creation are literally true, but hold that Revelations is all allegory. If the bible is literal truth, wouldn't that mean Revelations is gonna be all giant 12 headed goats eating people and angels with swords running around hacking down buildings and forests and stuff? And beasts rising out of the sea? Not to mention the 'mark of the beast' is gonna be a 666 tattoed to your forehead, and not some WTO chip implant...
	__________________ "In the end, I was so decent, I stopped being a Christian altogether!" -Ruby --- "God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man." -Nanrei Kobori

2nd November 2003, 04:36 AM	#17
Leif Roar Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,800	Re: unicorns in the bible Quote: Originally posted by bewareofdogmas Apologists say unicorn in the bible is a rino. Rino have two horns don't they? From Encyclopædia Britannica: Certain poetical passages of the biblical Old Testament refer to a strong and splendid horned animal called re 'em. This word was translated “unicorn” or “rhinoceros” in many versions of the Bible, but many modern translations prefer “wild ox” (aurochs), which is the correct meaning of the Hebrew re 'em. Seems to be another case of poor translations.
Leif Roar Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,800	__________________ "Our feature on cloud seeding (16 Apr, p40) should have started with the words 'Cannons blazed'. No clergy were set on fire in China's rainmaking experiment." -- New Scientist, 7th May 2005

2nd November 2003, 04:23 PM	#18
neutrino_cannon Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seventh circle of limbo Posts: 2,571	Quote: Originally posted by geni Posible through travlers tails. Anyway I think the antilope theory works much better. again eddited to add picture That's an oryx in't it? Is that a thylacaine in your avatar zakur? Always try the australian version of a wolf eh? Hah! I'll bet there's no thylacaines in the bible! And where's that wierd unicorn poster from a while back? Anyway, unicorns seem unlikely to me, because ungulates with horns are typically even toed, and horses are odd toed. Of course, unicorns ares sometimes shown with cloven hooves.
	__________________ "Man would have been too happy, if, limiting himself to the visible objects which interested him, he had employed, to perfect his real sciences, his laws, his morals, his education, one half-the efforts he has put into his researches on the Divinity" -Percy Bysshe Shelley, The Necessity of Atheism