Walmart Employee Trampled to Death by “Black Friday” Shoppers

[Kaylee]

Sometimes I think there are too may frivolous lawsuits – but I hope the family of the dead worker sues Wal-Mart over this. They develop business practices to stir the crowds up into a frenzy … and surprise, surprise they get a frenzied crowd. No excuse for the animals that did this – but basic crowd management control techniques were not followed. Per other reports, the shoppers started waiting in line from 9p the night before in order to be able to buy select items on sale, from 5a – 10a only, the next day.


Yahoo article (no sign-in required)

Quote:

A Wal-Mart worker was killed Friday when "out-of-control" shoppers desperate for bargains broke down the doors at a 5 a.m. sale. Other workers were trampled as they tried to rescue the man, and customers shouted angrily and kept shopping when store officials said they were closing because of the death, police and witnesses said.

<snip>


Nassau police said about 2,000 people were gathered outside the store doors at the mall about 20 miles east of Manhattan. The impatient crowd knocked the man, identified by police as Jdimytai Damour of Queens, to the ground as he opened the doors, leaving a metal portion of the frame crumpled like an accordion.

"This crowd was out of control," said Nassau police spokesman Lt. Michael Fleming. He described the scene as "utter chaos."

Dozens of store employees trying to fight their way out to help Damour were also getting trampled by the crowd, Fleming said.

<snip>

Police said criminal charges were possible in the case, but Fleming said it would be difficult to identify individual shoppers. Authorities were reviewing surveillance video.

The New York Times article (sign in may be required)

Quote:

By 4:55, with no police officers in sight, the crowd of more than 2,000 had become a rabble, and could be held back no longer. Fists banged and shoulders pressed on the sliding-glass double doors, which bowed in with the weight of the assault. Six to 10 workers inside tried to push back, but it was hopeless.

Suddenly, witnesses and the police said, the doors shattered, and the shrieking mob surged through in a blind rush for holiday bargains. One worker, Jdimytai Damour, 34, was thrown back onto the black linoleum tiles and trampled in the stampede that streamed over and around him. Others who had stood alongside Mr. Damour trying to hold the doors were also hurled back and run over, witnesses said.

Some workers who saw what was happening fought their way through the surge to get to Mr. Damour, but he had been fatally injured, the police said. Emergency workers tried to revive Mr. Damour, a temporary worker hired for the holiday season, at the scene, but he was pronounced dead an hour later at Franklin Hospital Medical Center in Valley Stream.

Four other people, including a 28-year-old woman who was described as eight months pregnant, were treated at the hospital for minor injuries.

<snip>

Some shoppers who had seen the stampede said they were shocked. One of them, Kimberly Cribbs of Queens, said the crowd had acted like “savages.” Shoppers behaved badly even as the store was being cleared, she recalled.

“When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling, ‘I’ve been on line since yesterday morning,’ ” Ms. Cribbs told The Associated Press. “They kept shopping.”

<snip>

Wal-Mart has vigorously and successfully resisted unionization of its employees. New York State’s largest grocery union, Local 1500 of the United Food and Commercial Workers, called the death of Mr. Damour “avoidable” and demanded investigations by local prosecutors and federal and state agencies.

Where were the safety barriers?” said Bruce Both, the union president. “Where was security? How did store management not see dangerous numbers of customers barreling down on the store in such an unsafe manner? This is not just tragic; it rises to a level of blatant irresponsibility by Wal-Mart.”

[tyr_13]

I really fail to see how this can be blamed on Wal-Mart. I hope they use the security camera recordings to charge the 'animals' actually responsible.

*edit* Oh I see! Because it doesn't have unions. How could I possibly not understood. Screw unions. Sorry to be so blunt but I have never, ever, had a good experience with them. It wouldn't have helped here at any rate. It would have just been a dead union work.

And of course it is the grocery union, one of the most corrupt that I've actually had experience with. They hate Wal-Mart so hard, they'll exploit any tragedy to hit them.

[JoeEllison]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

I really fail to see how this can be blamed on Wal-Mart.

Maybe you should try harder?

I've been to Black Friday events with about 1000 people outside, and there was no pushing or shoving, no violence, and it was because management took responsibility for the situation, hired some security, and kept things from getting ugly. If Wal-Mart didn't have proper policy in place to avoid this situation knowing full well what would likely happen, and didn't take proper precautions ahead of time, then they ARE responsible.

[JoeEllison]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

*edit* Oh I see! Because it doesn't have unions. How could I possibly not understood. Screw unions. Sorry to be so blunt but I have never, ever, had a good experience with them. It wouldn't have helped here at any rate. It would have just been a dead union work.

And of course it is the grocery union, one of the most corrupt that I've actually had experience with. They hate Wal-Mart so hard, they'll exploit any tragedy to hit them.

Oh, I see! You have political ideology that short-circuits your ability to reason and empathize, or resist to urge to suck up to corporations no matter what they do wrong.

[Kaylee]

@tyr_13: Did you read any of the articles or watch any of the videos? Other stores had the shoppers in an orderly line managed by store employees. If necc. they had concrete barriers set up in place. At Walmart there was none of that.

Also, having prices slashed radically below market prices for just the first 5 hours of Black Friday does not help the situation. Any organization, if it wants to, can help bring the worst out in people.

There are videos on the net that show in previous years people getting knocked down and trampled in Wal-Mart stores on Black Friday. They had a problem and the retail store chain made no attempt to fix it -- just continued with business as usual. Now a man is dead.

ETA: I see JoeEllison posted first -- good points Joe.

[tyr_13]

Originally Posted by JoeEllison

Oh, I see! You have political ideology that short-circuits your ability to reason and empathize, or resist to urge to suck up to corporations no matter what they do wrong.

Yes, that is the logical conclusion, I must be an ideologue. I empathize with the employees and management of that store, not the stampeding shoppers, and certainly not unions seeking to use this as ammo to try to get into Wal-Mart stores.

I've been to these events too with no violence, and no security. I've worked these events with no violence and no security. Why would this store know this was likely? What makes you so sure they knew full well?

Should I now accuse you of having a political ideology that short-circuits your ability to reason or bash corporations no mater how little they had to do with something?

[tyr_13]

Why not blame the police then? They knew about these situations as fully as Wal-Mart, and they didn't stop it.

Also, pointing out that other Wal-Marts had 'proper precautions' would seem to indicate that it was a problem with this specific store and not the corporation as a whole. People were shot at other stores, is that Toys-R-Us's fault? Or are they not big enough to pick on?

[JoeEllison]

Originally Posted by Kaylee

.

There are videos on the net that show in previous years people getting knocked down and trampled in Wal-Mart stores on Black Friday. They had a problem and the retail store chain made no attempt to fix it -- just continued with business as usual. Now a man is dead.

And that's all you need to show that Wal-Mart is responsible: solid evidence that they knew about the problem, combined with an unwillingness to correct the problem. If this sort of mob behavior happens once, in one store, it is an unavoidable accident. If the company sets up the same situation the next year, and doesn't do anything to make sure it doesn't happen again, then they are liable.

[rwguinn]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Yes, that is the logical conclusion, I must be an ideologue. I empathize with the employees and management of that store, not the stampeding shoppers, and certainly not unions seeking to use this as ammo to try to get into Wal-Mart stores.

I've been to these events too with no violence, and no security. I've worked these events with no violence and no security. Why would this store know this was likely? What makes you so sure they knew full well?

Should I now accuse you of having a political ideology that short-circuits your ability to reason or bash corporations no mater how little they had to do with something?

You just don't understand.
These poor people are too stupid to keep themselves under control. It is up to big brother to keep them in line, by force if necessary, because the average joe who shops at Wal mart NEEDS the benevolent people in society to keep them in line.
We must learn to listen to those who know our limitations, and who are kindly enough to know that it is up to Corporate America to keep us in line, and prevent use from hurting ourselves and others.




Besides--they have the deepest pockets...

[Drudgewire]

I'm amazed there was only one death. Black Friday turns people into monsters.

I hate it was a worker instead of one of the mindless trashbags who voluntarily stampede every day after Thanksgiving to get a copy of Tropic Thunder for $10. I can't really blame Wal-Mart, every major retailer in the country encourages this moronic behavoir, and they do so because goofballs basically demand it.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

I really fail to see how this can be blamed on Wal-Mart. I hope they use the security camera recordings to charge the 'animals' actually responsible.

Yes getting people to crowd and run is all good, these things are totaly random and crowds can never be predicted right?

Like the yearly deaths at Mecca these are just a fact of life, employees. If there are not enough trample deaths it is not a successful sale.

[I Ratant]

The "99 Cent Store" crowd festered thru Penney's at the Mall this morning, trashing it so it looked familiar to them. Merchandise just dropped on the floor any old place.

[Drudgewire]

More "Black Friday at Wal-Mart" holiday cheer:

Shoppers Fight For Last X-Box At Wal-Mart

[tyr_13]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Yes getting people to crowd and run is all good, these things are totaly random and crowds can never be predicted right?

Like the yearly deaths at Mecca these are just a fact of life, employees. If there are not enough trample deaths it is not a successful sale.

Getting people to crowd and run? You make it sound like they were fenced in, perhaps with concrete barriers, and hit with cattle prods. Those people chose to behave badly. Other crowds didn't. Can you predict which ones? The one at Sears? K-Mart? Lowes?

Hopefully this event leads to tighter crowd control for all Wal-Mart stores, which will be added right to the sales price of the products. Yet no one will tell Wal-Mart, "good job," even if it starts a program better than any of it's competitors.

The sad thing is that if this had happened at Target, people wouldn't be as likely to call for a law suit. Guess that's because everyone knows Wal-Mart is evil and other corporations are nice.

[Drudgewire]

Then again, everyone knows if you want REAL Black Friday violence then screw Wal-Mart. Toys-R-US is where the action is:

Shots fired at Toys R Us in Palm Desert; 2 dead

Thankfully all my Black Friday shopping was done on Amazon before I ever got out of bed, and the out-of-door shopping was all at gun shops (wooohooo, 2nd Amendment Tax-Free Weekend) so I never went within a mile of a mall. I couldn't handle that insanity even before I quit smoking weed.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

Then again, everyone knows if you want REAL Black Friday violence then screw Wal-Mart. Toys-R-US is where the action is:

Shots fired at Toys R Us in Palm Desert; 2 dead

Thankfully all my Black Friday shopping was done on Amazon before I ever got out of bed, and the out-of-door shopping was all at gun shops (wooohooo, 2nd Amendment Tax-Free Weekend) so I never went within a mile of a mall. I couldn't handle that insanity even before I quit smoking weed.

Now I am seeing something like one of those wedding dress sale crowds at a gun store.

[Drudgewire]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Now I am seeing something like one of those wedding dress sale crowds at a gun store.

Last place in the world it's going to happen. The most heavily-armed people there are the employees.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Getting people to crowd and run? You make it sound like they were fenced in, perhaps with concrete barriers, and hit with cattle prods. Those people chose to behave badly. Other crowds didn't. Can you predict which ones? The one at Sears? K-Mart? Lowes?

They want frantic crowds and intentionaly feed the idea that they need to buy it now and get in there now. They want people running and pushing, that is a goal, and when you get that sort of crowd you get deaths.

If it was random like you seem to think then you would get trampleing deaths at most large concerts and sporting events.

Quote:

Hopefully this event leads to tighter crowd control for all Wal-Mart stores, which will be added right to the sales price of the products. Yet no one will tell Wal-Mart, "good job," even if it starts a program better than any of it's competitors.

And the only way to get any company to respond to such things is hit them in the pocket book.

[Puppycow]

Good grief. What a bunch of herd animals.

I don't blame Wal-Mart. I blame the animals.

[Drudgewire]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

If it was random like you seem to think then you would get trampleing deaths at most large concerts and sporting events.

It happens at both of them. You simply can't compare the instances of it because there are never going to be as many massive concerts and sporting events in one day as there are stores nationwide holding these idiotic sales today.

Not to mention soccer moms and children aren't as well-practiced at mob violence as sports fans and concert-goers.

[johnny karate]

I don't care if Wal-Mart ran ads explicitly inviting customers to trample their employees. At some point when you're storming into a retail outlet at five in the morning to buy some piece of crap you don't really need for a little cheaper than you can any other time, maybe look down and see if that guy you're stepping on is not bleeding to death.

When I'm shopping at Wal-Mart, I don't necessarily count on Wal-Mart to protect me from other shoppers. I count on those other shoppers not being complete savages.

[Puppycow]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Yes, that is the logical conclusion, I must be an ideologue. I empathize with the employees and management of that store, not the stampeding shoppers, and certainly not unions seeking to use this as ammo to try to get into Wal-Mart stores.

I've been to these events too with no violence, and no security. I've worked these events with no violence and no security. Why would this store know this was likely? What makes you so sure they knew full well?

Should I now accuse you of having a political ideology that short-circuits your ability to reason or bash corporations no mater how little they had to do with something?

You'll have to understand that Joe has an ideology that short-circuits his ability to reason and causes him to find a corporate culprit behind every crime.

[Drudgewire]

I'd be willing to bet next year you won't see any commercials like the Verizon one where a woman is asked by her friend what would happen if there was only one phone left at the Black Friday sale and in various versions of it gets hit with a tranq dart or given a nerve pinch.

[Redtail]

I Can't really blame Wal-Mart here. This type of stupid has been happening for a while now. I remember in the 80's when I would watch the morning news during the cabbage patch craze just so I could watch adults act like complete idiots over a toy. Hell look at the stampedes for XBox 360 or Playstation 3. I don't recall many people getting hurt (badly) but it was sheer luck that they didn't.

[gdnp]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Getting people to crowd and run? You make it sound like they were fenced in, perhaps with concrete barriers, and hit with cattle prods. Those people chose to behave badly. Other crowds didn't. Can you predict which ones? The one at Sears? K-Mart? Lowes?

Wall-Mart created the conditions that led to the stampede and the death. I therefore find them responsible. If specific people can be identified that led to the tragedy they should be prosecuted as well, but Wall-Mart is in charge of security at their stores.

Quote:

Hopefully this event leads to tighter crowd control for all Wal-Mart stores, which will be added right to the sales price of the products.

Let's see: 4 security guards for an 8 hour shift would have cost them what--$500? I think that would have been money well spent, don't you?

Quote:

Yet no one will tell Wal-Mart, "good job," even if it starts a program better than any of it's competitors.

Then again, they also won't be plastered over the news as the place where one of their employees was trampled to death. So unless you subscribe to the "any publicity is good publicity" theory, it's still money well spent. No one tells them "good job" when they sell milk without melamine or kids toys without lead paint either. People are funny. They don't expect to die as a result of shopping.

Quote:

The sad thing is that if this had happened at Target, people wouldn't be as likely to call for a law suit. Guess that's because everyone knows Wal-Mart is evil and other corporations are nice.

Wall-mart, being the dominant player, is often in the spotlight, much as Microsoft is with software. It comes with the territory. But sorry, if someone were trampled to death at Target that would have been publicized as well, and there would be similar calls for lawsuits. I suspect Wall-mart will settle this one for millions before it goes to trial.

[Kaylee]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

I really fail to see how this can be blamed on Wal-Mart. I hope they use the security camera recordings to charge the 'animals' actually responsible.

I agree that the people who actually trampled the employee should be held responsible and brought to trial, if possible. Perhaps manslaughter would be an appropriate charge. (I'm not a lawyer, just watched my share of cop show over the years.)

Originally Posted by rwguinn

You just don't understand.
These poor people are too stupid to keep themselves under control. It is up to big brother to keep them in line, by force if necessary, because the average joe who shops at Wal mart NEEDS the benevolent people in society to keep them in line.
We must learn to listen to those who know our limitations, and who are kindly enough to know that it is up to Corporate America to keep us in line, and prevent use from hurting ourselves and others.

Ah, no. But if a retail store chain's management intentionally develops and implements marketing techniques and policies that go out of their way to create unsafe mob scenes, shouldn't they be held responsible for that?

Originally Posted by tyr_13

The sad thing is that if this had happened at Target, people wouldn't be as likely to call for a law suit. Guess that's because everyone knows Wal-Mart is evil and other corporations are nice.

Wal-mart deserves their reputation -- they worked hard to earn it. I don't know of any other corporation that locks their employees in so that can't leave. Yah Wal-mart! Unions are bad! Locking in employees so they can't leave when there's a fire, or when there's an emergency and someone needs to go to a hospital is good!

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

They want frantic crowds and intentionaly feed the idea that they need to buy it now and get in there now. They want people running and pushing, that is a goal, and when you get that sort of crowd you get deaths.

If it was random like you seem to think then you would get trampleing deaths at most large concerts and sporting events.


And the only way to get any company to respond to such things is hit them in the pocket book.

Well put PT.

ETA: Once again someone posted faster than me, this time gdnp ... darn fingers!

[TragicMonkey]

I don't see what "security guards" could have done to prevent this. Fired into the crowd? I think that would have brought Walmart even more condemnation. If a rabble is so frenzied they are smashing down doors and trampling people to death, do you really think a retired cop in a vest that reads "Security" or a kid with a walkie-talkie is going to be able to stop them? Short of spraying the crowd with fire hoses, using tear gas, or live ammunition, what would have worked?

[Drudgewire]

Originally Posted by gdnp

I suspect Wall-mart will settle this one for millions before it goes to trial.

Which is what's going to happen. I imagine part of the settlement will be a non-disclosure clause to prevent the numbers from getting out.

Again, the fact it was an employee changes the equation. You don't take Black Friday off if you work in retail, so he's not in the same voluntary rioter category a shopper at the same store would be. I feel very sorry for the family.

But before we point fingers at any one company, remember there are three incidents of violence linked in this thread. Two of them are Wal-Mart, but there are also a lot more Wal-Marts than any other department stores out there. They're basically a victim of the odds being stacked against them more than anything.

[johnny karate]

Originally Posted by gdnp

Wall-Mart created the conditions that led to the stampede and the death. I therefore find them responsible.

Originally Posted by Kaylee

But if a retail store chain's management intentionally develops and implements marketing techniques and policies that go out of their way to create unsafe mob scenes, shouldn't they be held responsible for that?

A question to all posters in this thread assuming the position illustrated above: Have you ever been subjected to any kind of persuasion from a corporate entity that would make you want to disregard the safety of people around you?

[gdnp]

Originally Posted by Redtail

I Can't really blame Wal-Mart here. This type of stupid has been happening for a while now. I remember in the 80's when I would watch the morning news during the cabbage patch craze just so I could watch adults act like complete idiots over a toy. Hell look at the stampedes for XBox 360 or Playstation 3. I don't recall many people getting hurt (badly) but it was sheer luck that they didn't.

You just gave a strong argument against your own point. "This type of stupid has been happening for a while...I don't recall many people getting hurt (badly) but it was sheer luck that they didn't."

This is not unexpected crowd behavior. It is entirely predictable. No one forces Wall-Mart to open at 5 AM or to temorarily deeply discount prices on highly sought-after items in limited quantities. They do this to bring people into their stores, people who they hope will then buy other items as well. They are responsible for creating the atmosphere that led to the stampede. Thus they are responsible for making sure that it can be controlled.

Do you really think that there were 2000 animals outside of Wall-Mart at 5 AM? Or a bunch of sleep-deprived people who had been standing in freezing weather for hours with the hope of saving some money so that they could get through Christmas without going too much deeper into debt as the economy heads down the tubes? You really think you would have acted that much differently in a similar situation?

[TragicMonkey]

I thought all Walmarts were open 24 hours, anyway? The ones around here all are.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by Kaylee

I agree that the people who actually trampled the employee should be held responsible and brought to trial, if possible. Perhaps manslaughter would be an appropriate charge. (I'm not a lawyer, just watched my share of cop show over the years.)

That may be difficult. It's possible that 400 different people stepped on this poor man. Only the first few may have even seen him hit the floor, and unable to do anything about it with 2000 pushing from outside. Everyone else coming through is so tightly pressed against each other that they can't see their own feet. They can feel that they have stepped on something, but have no idea what it was. Mob surges are horrible, dangerous, and really can't be easily stopped once they start.

[Drudgewire]

Originally Posted by gdnp

This is not unexpected crowd behavior. It is entirely predictable. No one forces Wall-Mart to open at 5 AM or to temorarily deeply discount prices on highly sought-after items in limited quantities. They do this to bring people into their stores, people who they hope will then buy other items as well. They are responsible for creating the atmosphere that led to the stampede. Thus they are responsible for making sure that it can be controlled.

Again, every major retailer in the country does this. Wal-Mart just has so many stores it's more likely this will happen at one of theirs than somewhere else.

[johnny karate]

Originally Posted by gdnp

No one forces Wall-Mart to open at 5 AM or to temorarily deeply discount prices on highly sought-after items in limited quantities.

And I'm fairly certain no one was forced to trample some guy to death.

[bigred]

Originally Posted by Kaylee

No excuse for the animals that did this – but

No, no "but." I know it's not feasible, unfortunately, but IMO these low-class, brain-dead losers should be up on charges of manslaughter. Wal-mart isn't exacty faultless either though.

But really, this is just another day in the life of modern America, which has been painfully stupid and insane for more than a few years now.

[Drudgewire]

And you know the scene in "Fight Club" where Norton talks about the cost of lawsuits vs. the costs of having to make repairs to the cars which caused the deaths leading to them?

Whatever Wal-Mart shells out to the family, I guarantee you it will be pennies on the dollar compared to how much they made between 5 and 6 AM this morning.

So don't expect a big policy change to come out of this.

[Kaylee]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I don't see what "security guards" could have done to prevent this. Fired into the crowd? I think that would have brought Walmart even more condemnation. If a rabble is so frenzied they are smashing down doors and trampling people to death, do you really think a retired cop in a vest that reads "Security" or a kid with a walkie-talkie is going to be able to stop them? Short of spraying the crowd with fire hoses, using tear gas, or live ammunition, what would have worked?

Well, for one thing the crowd never should have had the option to be able to gang up at the front door and break it down.

Concrete barriers, security guards to enforce that people stay in line -- perhaps even spaced gaps in the line (to prevent all 2,000 people from coming in at the exact same time!) would have been helpful. There's a video attached to a Newsday article where a shopper at the scene said that this kind of situation doesn't happen at other retail store chains because there's management and crowd control techniques in place. There was absolutely nothing like that in place at the Wal-Mart store in Valley Stream, NY.

And really -- does Wal-Mart have to have just a few items on sale at super low prices that only a few people can possibly hope to be able to grab before the prices go up a few hours later that very same morning? If the stores just had a lower mark down on the products for the WHOLE day instead -- that would go a long way to reduce the mad crowd frenzy. I believe the retail store management wants that crazy frenzied scene and they do whatever they can to create it. Human psychology isn't that complicated and its pretty easy to figure out what buttons to press to create a frenzied crowd.

[gdnp]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I don't see what "security guards" could have done to prevent this. Fired into the crowd? I think that would have brought Walmart even more condemnation. If a rabble is so frenzied they are smashing down doors and trampling people to death, do you really think a retired cop in a vest that reads "Security" or a kid with a walkie-talkie is going to be able to stop them? Short of spraying the crowd with fire hoses, using tear gas, or live ammunition, what would have worked?

Well, let's look at 2 possible scenerios. In one case you have 2000 people outside the store with no crowd control: no barriers, no one in charge. Just 2000 people pushing and shoving, trying to get to the front, trying to squeeze through a space that is too narrow. The people in the back are pushing trying to get to the front. The people in the front are trying to hold their position. The doors open and people start to surge through. The people in the back push harder. Someone in the front trips and falls: in this case the store employee. The people in the back can't see it, and the people in the front can't stop because if they do they will be trampled themselves. People get injured and in this case someone dies.

Scenerio 2: Same store, but there are 4 uniformed security people outside managing the crowd. People are made to line up rather than gathering in an unruly mob. Barriers have been set up to keep the line orderly. People are kept away from the front of the building so that they are not being pushed into the doors by the crowd behind. No one trips, and if they do it is not in the front of a stampede. Everyone is inside within 10 minutes of the doors opening.

The way to stop a stampede is to prevent it from staring in the first place. If the crowd is becoming unruly the police are called before it gets out of control. Perhaps you hire off-duty policemen for crowd control, if necessary.

[Kaylee]

Originally Posted by bigred

No, no "but." I know it's not feasible, unfortunately, but IMO these low-class, brain-dead losers should be up on charges of manslaughter. Wal-mart isn't exacty faultless either though.

But really, this is just another day in the life of modern America, which has been painfully stupid and insane for more than a few years now.

Originally Posted by Drudgewire

And you know the scene in "Fight Club" where Norton talks about the cost of lawsuits vs. the costs of having to make repairs to the cars which caused the deaths leading to them?

Whatever Wal-Mart shells out to the family, I guarantee you it will be pennies on the dollar compared to how much they made between 5 and 6 AM this morning.

So don't expect a big policy change to come out of this.

Yes. I agree the crowd was at fault and Wal-Mart's management was at fault too. Each of us are responsible for our culture's values that we all end up forging together.

Unfortunately it seems that the ONLY thing that drives Wal-Marts decisions is $$$. Moral values seems to not be an issue at all. So... I hope they do end up getting sued enough to make an impression on them. But you might be right DW, maybe that won't happen.

[Sefarst]

Originally Posted by gdnp

This is not unexpected crowd behavior.

It is unexpected crowd behavior. How many stores are there in the country that offered discounts today? Hell, we don't even need to go that far. How many Wal Mart stores are there in the country? All of them were offering discounts. How many people died at those Wal Marts?

Quote:

It is entirely predictable. No one forces Wall-Mart to open at 5 AM or to temorarily deeply discount prices on highly sought-after items in limited quantities. They do this to bring people into their stores, people who they hope will then buy other items as well. They are responsible for creating the atmosphere that led to the stampede. Thus they are responsible for making sure that it can be controlled.

Yeah, Wal Mart should really stop offering such good deals. They need to raise their prices and stop having sales that will excite people. People aren't capable of controlling themselves and shouldn't be expected to.

Quote:

Do you really think that there were 2000 animals outside of Wall-Mart at 5 AM? Or a bunch of sleep-deprived people who had been standing in freezing weather for hours with the hope of saving some money so that they could get through Christmas without going too much deeper into debt as the economy heads down the tubes? You really think you would have acted that much differently in a similar situation?

Oh those poor people who stampeded another human being to death because they wanted to buy some video games at 10% off! You're right, the real monsters here are the companies who offered the deal in the first place. Reminds me of those monsters in our government who build our roads. Don't they know that allowing people to drive on interstates will inevitably lead to wrecks?