Telepathy twins - Richard and Damien Powles

MrsMorgentaler · 4th December 2008, 01:50 PM

I'd like to know what everyone thinks about this twins-communicating-without-speaking stuff. I found out today that most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy" and that's very scary to me. Below is a an excerpt from a list site that wrote a small piece about twin connections. How was this experiment done incorrectly? Why do people believe twins are capable of powers that regular humans born as a single birth are not?

the following piece comes from The List Universe entitled "10 Extraordinary Tales of Extraordinary Twins".
---------------------------------------

Even Though the idea of a special connection between identical twins is often myth and legend little research has been done in this field. The book ‘Twin Telepathy” claims an overwhelming body of evidence indicating that there is indeed a special connection. One of the experiments involved 8-year-old Richard Powles who was put in a soundproof room in front of a bucket filled with ice-cold water. On command, Richard plunged his arm into the ice cold water, giving a gasp as he did so. In another room well out of sight or earshot, his identical twin brother Damien was wired up to a polygraph. A polygraph expert monitored his respiration, abdominal muscles, pulse and galvanic skin response (sweat on the hands). All Damien had to do was sit quietly and “tune in” to his brother’s feelings. At the exact moment of Richard’s sharp intake of breath caused by the freezing water, there was a sudden blip on the line monitoring Damien’s respiration rate. In another experiment, Richard was asked to open a cardboard box; in it was a huge rubber snake that jumped out at him. This, too, was instantly picked up by his twin as the pulse line on the chart clearly indicated. The book also concludes there are three especially telepathy-prone groups - mothers and newborn babies, dogs and their owners, and identical twins. Of these, it is the twins who pick up the signal at full strength most often, provided that they are in the right states of mind.

godless dave · 4th December 2008, 01:52 PM

The experiment is missing a control - someone else hooked up to a polygraph who is not related to the twins. I'd want to see that the time of the spike on the polygraph matched the time the arm plunge was recorded.

kerikiwi · 4th December 2008, 02:10 PM

And how many spikes there were when there was no arm plunge.
And how often the arm plunge/spike coincidence occured.
And why was the gasp significant? This is meant to be telepathic communication.
And, and, and...

Soapy Sam · 4th December 2008, 04:42 PM

Identical twins are clones.
Genetically, they start the same.
During embryological development , they start to differ, because the mere presence of two embryos in one womb means they will be exposed to different hormone concentrations, but they still emerge at birth far more alike than any other siblings, including fraternal twins. Thereafter, they diverge further, as their life experience differs- but as they often have very similar lives, they will still be far more alike than any other two people. So far , so obvious.
So they develop similar responses and behaviour, similar body language, similar subconscious cues. When together in one place- able to see or hear each other- they almost certainly do communicate in ways the rest of us can't- picking up on muscle movement for example, as fish or birds do in shoals and flocks.
This is probably subconscious- so even they may not be aware of how they sometimes know what their twin is about to do.
This has been exaggerated in popular accounts into long range telepathy, which is impossible. Brains are not radios. (Just as well, these days!). Another version I've read is (you've guessed) "quantum entanglement"!
Yeah, right.
The point is that there's nothing about an identical twin's brain any different from anyone's brain. There simply happens to exist another brain, extremely like it.
The whole idea is just bad reporting.

Blackwell · 4th December 2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by kerikiwi

And how many spikes there were when there was no arm plunge.
And how often the arm plunge/spike coincidence occured.
And why was the gasp significant? This is meant to be telepathic communication.
And, and, and...

...and why rely solely on the machine? Why not just have the kid say "OK, my arm is cold now....now it's not."
Along with what kerikiwi said, I'd be willing to bet they just looked at the chart, found random spikes that seemed to correspond to the arm plunge, and call that a hit.

The Atheist · 4th December 2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by MrsMorgentaler

Why do people believe twins are capable of powers that regular humans born as a single birth are not?

Because people would rather believe an anecdote than double-blind test results.

Gord_in_Toronto · 4th December 2008, 06:48 PM

If this was true, it would have been repeated many times in front of scientists, stage magicians and skeptics. They would all be believers and we could then move onto some other woo; like homeopathy.

The people who need to be convinced have not been. Wake me when they are.

The Atheist · 4th December 2008, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

If this was true, it would have been repeated many times in front of scientists, stage magicians and skeptics.

Not to mention having long ago taken JREF's mio.

Jeff Corey · 5th December 2008, 04:02 AM

I don't believe this part without some source. "... most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy"..."

Soapy Sam · 5th December 2008, 04:16 AM

I don't either, but it's a popular theme in literature- especially sf/ fantasy- and a lot of folk feel it's somehow less improbable than other types of telepathy.
I think the actual reason for that is that when physically in each other's presence, such twins really do communicate on subtle, subconscious levels to a very limited extent.
It's no more telepathic than the communication between a horse and a rider. It's just non verbal.

godless dave · 5th December 2008, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jeff Corey

I don't believe this part without some source. "... most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy"..."

It's like "most Americans are willing to give up some freedoms to prevent terrorist attacks". Repeat it enough times and people start to believe it.

The Atheist · 5th December 2008, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Corey

I don't believe this part without some source. "... most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy"..."

Difficult one to quantify as I doubt there's ever been research into that question, but I'd go with a majority of people believing it. People are bloody stupid.

jhunter1163 · 5th December 2008, 05:49 PM

SoapySam has a point about nonverbal communication. My younger brother and I developed our own language when we were in junior high school. Nothing telepathic or anything about it, just shortened regular English words, added different inflections, substituted other sounds for interjections, and there you had it. We would stand there and trash people right in front of them, and they never had a clue. We still use it from time to time if the wives are around and we don't want them knowing what we're talking about.

The point is, my brother and I can communicate a great deal of information with very little noise. Not quite nonverbal, but pretty close.

4th December 2008, 01:50 PM	#1
MrsMorgentaler New Blood Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3	Telepathy twins - Richard and Damien Powles I'd like to know what everyone thinks about this twins-communicating-without-speaking stuff. I found out today that most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy" and that's very scary to me. Below is a an excerpt from a list site that wrote a small piece about twin connections. How was this experiment done incorrectly? Why do people believe twins are capable of powers that regular humans born as a single birth are not? the following piece comes from The List Universe entitled "10 Extraordinary Tales of Extraordinary Twins". --------------------------------------- Even Though the idea of a special connection between identical twins is often myth and legend little research has been done in this field. The book ‘Twin Telepathy” claims an overwhelming body of evidence indicating that there is indeed a special connection. One of the experiments involved 8-year-old Richard Powles who was put in a soundproof room in front of a bucket filled with ice-cold water. On command, Richard plunged his arm into the ice cold water, giving a gasp as he did so. In another room well out of sight or earshot, his identical twin brother Damien was wired up to a polygraph. A polygraph expert monitored his respiration, abdominal muscles, pulse and galvanic skin response (sweat on the hands). All Damien had to do was sit quietly and “tune in” to his brother’s feelings. At the exact moment of Richard’s sharp intake of breath caused by the freezing water, there was a sudden blip on the line monitoring Damien’s respiration rate. In another experiment, Richard was asked to open a cardboard box; in it was a huge rubber snake that jumped out at him. This, too, was instantly picked up by his twin as the pulse line on the chart clearly indicated. The book also concludes there are three especially telepathy-prone groups - mothers and newborn babies, dogs and their owners, and identical twins. Of these, it is the twins who pick up the signal at full strength most often, provided that they are in the right states of mind.
MrsMorgentaler New Blood Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3

4th December 2008, 01:52 PM	#2
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,125	The experiment is missing a control - someone else hooked up to a polygraph who is not related to the twins. I'd want to see that the time of the spike on the polygraph matched the time the arm plunge was recorded.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

4th December 2008, 04:42 PM	#4
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Identical twins are clones. Genetically, they start the same. During embryological development , they start to differ, because the mere presence of two embryos in one womb means they will be exposed to different hormone concentrations, but they still emerge at birth far more alike than any other siblings, including fraternal twins. Thereafter, they diverge further, as their life experience differs- but as they often have very similar lives, they will still be far more alike than any other two people. So far , so obvious. So they develop similar responses and behaviour, similar body language, similar subconscious cues. When together in one place- able to see or hear each other- they almost certainly do communicate in ways the rest of us can't- picking up on muscle movement for example, as fish or birds do in shoals and flocks. This is probably subconscious- so even they may not be aware of how they sometimes know what their twin is about to do. This has been exaggerated in popular accounts into long range telepathy, which is impossible. Brains are not radios. (Just as well, these days!). Another version I've read is (you've guessed) "quantum entanglement"! Yeah, right. The point is that there's nothing about an identical twin's brain any different from anyone's brain. There simply happens to exist another brain, extremely like it. The whole idea is just bad reporting.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Last edited by Soapy Sam; 4th December 2008 at 04:45 PM.

4th December 2008, 05:32 PM	#5
Blackwell Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,304	Originally Posted by kerikiwi And how many spikes there were when there was no arm plunge. And how often the arm plunge/spike coincidence occured. And why was the gasp significant? This is meant to be telepathic communication. And, and, and... ...and why rely solely on the machine? Why not just have the kid say "OK, my arm is cold now....now it's not." Along with what kerikiwi said, I'd be willing to bet they just looked at the chart, found random spikes that seemed to correspond to the arm plunge, and call that a hit.
	__________________ One can't break the laws of physics, but you can be civilly disobedient towards them. - Dr. Tiki And yea, the Lord did text unto the Philistines... U guys have to stop s1nnig. I totaly <3 U guys 4ever but I will pwn U when I CUL8ER and U will be all OMG! and WTF! and I be LOL!!! - Psiload

4th December 2008, 06:41 PM	#6
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by MrsMorgentaler Why do people believe twins are capable of powers that regular humans born as a single birth are not? Because people would rather believe an anecdote than double-blind test results.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

4th December 2008, 02:10 PM	#3
kerikiwi Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bay of Islands NZ Posts: 5,844	And how many spikes there were when there was no arm plunge. And how often the arm plunge/spike coincidence occured. And why was the gasp significant? This is meant to be telepathic communication. And, and, and...

4th December 2008, 06:48 PM	#7
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,415	If this was true, it would have been repeated many times in front of scientists, stage magicians and skeptics. They would all be believers and we could then move onto some other woo; like homeopathy. The people who need to be convinced have not been. Wake me when they are.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

4th December 2008, 09:57 PM	#8
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto If this was true, it would have been repeated many times in front of scientists, stage magicians and skeptics. Not to mention having long ago taken JREF's mio.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

5th December 2008, 04:02 AM	#9
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	I don't believe this part without some source. "... most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy"..."

5th December 2008, 04:16 AM	#10
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	I don't either, but it's a popular theme in literature- especially sf/ fantasy- and a lot of folk feel it's somehow less improbable than other types of telepathy. I think the actual reason for that is that when physically in each other's presence, such twins really do communicate on subtle, subconscious levels to a very limited extent. It's no more telepathic than the communication between a horse and a rider. It's just non verbal.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

5th December 2008, 09:28 AM	#11
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,125	Originally Posted by Jeff Corey I don't believe this part without some source. "... most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy"..." It's like "most Americans are willing to give up some freedoms to prevent terrorist attacks". Repeat it enough times and people start to believe it.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

5th December 2008, 04:48 PM	#12
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by Jeff Corey I don't believe this part without some source. "... most people believe in this type of "twin telepathy"..." Difficult one to quantify as I doubt there's ever been research into that question, but I'd go with a majority of people believing it. People are bloody stupid.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

5th December 2008, 05:49 PM	#13
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,569	SoapySam has a point about nonverbal communication. My younger brother and I developed our own language when we were in junior high school. Nothing telepathic or anything about it, just shortened regular English words, added different inflections, substituted other sounds for interjections, and there you had it. We would stand there and trash people right in front of them, and they never had a clue. We still use it from time to time if the wives are around and we don't want them knowing what we're talking about. The point is, my brother and I can communicate a great deal of information with very little noise. Not quite nonverbal, but pretty close.