Bigfoot DNA

[NoahFence]

Do people seriously believe in Bigfoot? I mean, there's a whole show dedicated to it now, "Finding Bigfoot" or something like that. Should be a long series as they're never going to find it.....

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by NoahFence

Do people seriously believe in Bigfoot? I mean, there's a whole show dedicated to it now, "Finding Bigfoot" or something like that. Should be a long series as they're never going to find it.....

I think that's the idea...

There's a new movie coming out, too.

Bigfoot is a thriving industry.

http://www.cryptomundo.com/movie-mon...kookum-update/

[drewid]

Originally Posted by NoahFence

Do people seriously believe in Bigfoot? I mean, there's a whole show dedicated to it now, "Finding Bigfoot" or something like that. Should be a long series as they're never going to find it.....

Wasn't that "Harry and the Hendersons?"

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

http://www.cryptomundo.com/movie-mon...kookum-update/

Canada Goose call while Great Egret flushes = fail.

[BaldSeagull]

Originally Posted by Drewbot

Evidentally, the Jacobs Photo is still under debate, Oh, and they have two Bigfoot bodies.
.

They're STILL debating the Jacob's photos? The only Black bears I've ever seen are on TV, but when I first saw this photo I said "It's a skinny Black bear"! Maybe a big clue was the photos of the Black bears in the rest of the series.

[HarryHenderson]

Originally Posted by The Shrike

That guy will seriously spout anything.

Who the **** is this Robert Lindsay IDIOT I was so pleasantly ignorant of less than 24 hours ago? A BFRO shill? Matt Moneymaker's preferred 'money shot' target? Did you all read his 'interview' with the 'great white hunter'? These guys take a whole lot better drugs than I do. Apparently I need a better connect...<dialtone>.

[mustbeso]

I have had a little interaction with Robert Lindsay and I really don't know how to take him. He certainly never met a bigfoot tale he didn't believe. I wonder if he did the math on what it would take to shoot 1000 bears and that, perhaps , the DNR of whatever state/province the guy was in might be a tad upset.

[RayG]

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson

Who the **** is this Robert Lindsay...

I dunno, but he sure plays fast and loose with 'facts'. For example, this zinger:

Quote:

The average man has shoulders 25 inches wide. A wide shouldered man is 28-29 inches. Humans with shoulders over 30 inches are nearly unheard of.

Where does he live, Land of the Giants?

RayG

[mustbeso]

The news from Robert Lindsay gets stranger by the day. He is saying and, appears to believe, that Melba Ketchum is in possession of two tissue samples from two different big foots and that one of them is a juvenile. One of the samples is allegedly from the thigh. The questions of provenance and chain of custody seem not to bother them at all and the rumors that it '100% Homo Sapiens Sapiens' persist. If Paulides is involved in this as William Parcher thinks, this is going to be a complete mess.

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by RayG

I dunno, but he sure plays fast and loose with 'facts'. For example, this zinger:





Where does he live, Land of the Giants?

RayG

Land of the Lost?

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson

Who the **** is this Robert Lindsay IDIOT I was so pleasantly ignorant of less than 24 hours ago?

Robert Lindsay/Silver Fox on BFF...

Quote:

I live off a trust fund, and I'm basically on permanent early retirement for many years now. I got nothing to do all day, and I'm bored out of my head. This BF stuff is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Richard Stubstad on BFF...

Quote:

While I'm 97% certain the sasquai actually exist (much to my own surprise, by the way), I still don't have a clue what its actual genetic make-up is. It could be anything between a completely new hominid (like a Denisovan) to a feral human of sorts--or even possibly several concurrent varieties, for example the "Western Sasquatch", the "Eastern Sasquatch", and the "Skunk Ape". These possible subdivisions may be interbreeding as well (if they exist), thus creating wider genetic diversity. In fact, this may be the only thing that allows them to survive--if we can just get folks to stop shooting them, as reported to be the case here in California last November or December. And no, neither of the first two mtDNA samples were from this purported kill. I told Dr. K I didn't want to even KNOW about such data, because it was MURDER--if in fact it happened.

[parnassus]

Paulides responds to Stubstad's grandstanding:

"I am highly disappointed in some people, people that asked to join the project...
Certain individuals that were allowed to join the project have personal objectives that were more important to them then the teams objectives....


....DNA identifies what the biped is, and we then have an indisputable answer. Remember, this isn’t a one or two specimen; these are samples from across North America. This isn’t one laboratory doing the testing; several have crosschecked the work of others. There is a specific story line about each of the specimens, how they were obtained, witnessed and how they are associated with the biped.

I can guarantee that the information you are reading in the media is but a shot glass of sludge on a mountain of data. The people releasing the information have extremely fragmented data on two of our 100+ samples. These people are not DNA experts, have never worked in that field yet feels compelled to let the world know their opinions. When we started the process of accumulating specimens we had hoped for a dozen.....
...

The next time you read anything associated with our project, understand that unless it comes directly from Dr. Ketchum, nobody has all of the results. There is only one DNA expert who has all the data sitting in front of them, Dr. Ketchum. There will always be people in this world who want to inflict pain and suffering into others who have worked years at a project, for little or no compensation, and it’s those people that gain some level of satisfaction in knowing they’ve inflicted that pain, taken the air out of that balloon, it’s those people I feel sorry for...

...

Yes, we are still accepting specimens for DNA testing. The DNA Project has a benefactor who pays for the testing process, the testing process and examination by a hair and fiber expert costs the submitter nothing. If you are interested in submitting a sample, please contact me directly.


David Paulides"
http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/bigfootblog.html
---------------
I am willing to bet that Paulides/Ketchum will not be trying to make the world believe that Bigfoot is an mtDNA haplogroup H whitey from a western European lineage, as Stubstad is. They will be trying to make North American tribal people (haplogroups ABCD or X) into Bigfoots IMHO....those are the folks that Paulides has been working with, and talking and writing about for the last several years. So Stubstad has really cut their legs out from under them with his leak that his two samples were group H.

(I love the "story line" bit...)

Popcorn...

[Correa Neto]

Quick question-

What are the reactions of bigfootery heavy weights like Meldrum to this drama?

They favor an ape other than H. sapiens and should be debating, presenting counter arguments.

[parnassus]

Originally Posted by Correa Neto

Quick question-

What are the reactions of bigfootery heavy weights like Meldrum to this drama?

They favor an ape other than H. sapiens and should be debating, presenting counter arguments.

Follow the money....I expect Meldrum will find a way to go along with a "hybrid" theory.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by parnassus

Follow the money....I expect Meldrum will find a way to go along with a "hybrid" theory.

I think Meldrum will find a way to say pretty much nothing about this. At the most, he would probably only say things like "hmm", "interesting", "curious", "surprising", etc.

He seems to be on-board thumbs-up (so to speak) with the Erickson Project, but I haven't seen him the same with the Ketchum Project. I don't know if he has any comments on record for that. I would imagine that he would support any DNA analysis of Bigfoot evidence, but that is still quite different from any subsequent finding that "DNA reveals Bigfoot to be human or a human hybrid".

[parnassus]

The implications of human mtDNA are apparently not evident to Stubstad and the bleevers. I expect that Meldrum would have a better understanding, and this would certainly make him reluctant to play along. On the other hand, he did come out with the "Bigfoot will eat your babies" idea.

One thing I know, it's gonna be a train wreck, unfolding in slow motion.

[William Parcher]

So Parn, what is this "Bigfoot is a hybrid" thing about?

Are they thinking that Bigfoot is a cross breed of a human and a Bigfoot? See the weirdness of that?

Are they saying that there are no living pure ancestral populations of the thing known as Bigfoot?

Or, are they saying that the world presently contains all of the below?:

Pure Humans
Pure Bigfoots
Human x Bigfoot hybrids

[The Shrike]

I know you didn't ask me, but my sense is that there's a gathering storm trying to make the case that bigfoot is fully human, it's just a subspecies of some sort. This makes characterizations of hybrids ambiguous.

I don't know that there's any unified message coming from the Ketchum fans.

[parnassus]

The hybrid idea was not one that I had even considered, but has been advanced at this stage by those who dont understand what that would mean. It is dead on arrival as far as I am concerned.

I don't think Paulides is trying for the hybrid idea; I think he is going for the "human yet Sasquatch" concept based on a few polymorphisms found in isolated tribal people. I guess sub-species is the terminology.

I am getting the impression from Stubstad's posts that Ketchum is (or was) as naive as I had suspected. Hence, my prediction of a train wreck. I get the feeling, from his latest post, that, while seeming to praise her, Paulides is now setting her up to take the fall.

It's all like "who shot JR?" at this point lol.

[LTC8K6]

Well, if it's human, it's protected...it has constitutional rights, etc...

If it asks for a lawyer, you'd have to stop questioning it...

[mustbeso]

Do you suppose that if a bigfoot wanted a lawyer they would have to bring in the guy that calls himself a crytolinguist to interpret? That would be totally awesome.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by mustbeso

Do you suppose that if a bigfoot wanted a lawyer they would have to bring in the guy that calls himself a crytolinguist to interpret?

Nope anyone fluent in classical Spanish could serve as the interpreter, unless it was one of those Cajun bigfoots.

[Deacondark]

So, let me see if I have this correct: they're saying the "Bigfoot" DNA they have collected is human. So now, any human DNA they find in the woods, on a barbed wire fence, or on someones front porch can be claimed as Bigfoot DNA? That makes it really easy to "find Bigfoot" almost anywhere doesn't it?

[parnassus]

Originally Posted by Deacondark

So, let me see if I have this correct: they're saying the "Bigfoot" DNA they have collected is human. So now, any human DNA they find in the woods, on a barbed wire fence, or on someones front porch can be claimed as Bigfoot DNA? That makes it really easy to "find Bigfoot" almost anywhere doesn't it?

That is why it is genius.
And it's not so far from the truth. The legendary Sasquatches described by the NW tribes were just humans of enemy tribes. The hoaxers and liars and hallucinators are humans. So that is much of sum of the "evidence." The zagnut monster was a human. The Silver Star and Marble Mountain and Frazier River figures were humans.

There is a residual of some misidentified bears, plus all the coyote, owl and other animal noises.

In sum, much if not most of the "Bigfoot" "evidence" is of human origin. Bigfoot is human, in a real sense. But not different from other humans.

[GT/CS]

How do you suppose they will try to explain Patty, which in their minds is their best evidence of bigfoot?

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by parnassus

And it's not so far from the truth. The legendary Sasquatches described by the NW tribes were just humans of enemy tribes.

Why couldn't these tribes have purely imaginary bogeymen just like we do?

You seem to be saying that NAs told no lies, they were just mistaken or aggrandizers.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Why couldn't these tribes have purely imaginary bogeymen just like we do?

They could, but "involuntary adoption" was a relatively common practice among some tribes. For some, there were real people waiting in the woods to whisk them away. Their bogeymen weren't only imaginary.

[parnassus]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Why couldn't these tribes have purely imaginary bogeymen just like we do?

You seem to be saying that NAs told no lies, they were just mistaken or aggrandizers.

I'm saying that legendary monsters usually originate from real things. In the case of man-like monsters, they generally originate from humans perceived to be "different" or "alien". Even in advanced human cultures like our own, one can easily and recently find such references to races who differ from us by degrees of skin color, lip prominence, eyelid folds, etc. The concept that we are all one species is a pretty recent one. As a tall Anglo, I have been gawked at in isolated areas of the world, even including areas of North America where the average height is a foot less and facial/body hair is sparse.

(Parenthetically, I have spent a good bit of time studying North American Plains tribes and their languages, and the inadequacies of translations.)

Do Native Americans lie? Everyone lies. Tourist traps are everywhere. Did Paul Bunyan live in Brainerd? Did Jesus rise crom the dead? But are all these stories of big creatures just made up? I don't think so. Women and children WERE abducted from their tribes by fierce strong alien raiders, tribes moved about, life was perilous; accounts were told and imperfectly retold, and finally imperfectly translated.

[Vortigern99]

They were both real (to them) and imagined. The legends of the Thunder Bird and the Lake Tiger share a similar origin and function: partly based on real animals, but aggrandized and mythologized into creatures of supernatural power, and employed as functionaries in didactic folk tales.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by The Shrike

They could, but "involuntary adoption" was a relatively common practice among some tribes. For some, there were real people waiting in the woods to whisk them away. Their bogeymen weren't only imaginary.

Now hold on there.

Abduction raids were not conducted by giant apemen. If they were witnessed in the act, then nobody saw anything other than nearby (enemy) tribe members who may have even been identifiable by their appearance. If they were not witnessed, then their description is fantasy or speculation. Why wouldn't common wild animals be implicated such as bears or cougars (or others in the Pleistocene epoch)?

When a tribe had experienced abductions they may have later also raided the enemy tribe and found their own stolen tribe members. Our children weren't taken by giant apemen. They were taken by our enemies and they aren't Sasquatch.

[parnassus]

New rumors posted by Robert Lindsay, supposedly from the Erickson project regarding the nuclear DNA of specimens submitted to Ketchum.
As judged by the polymorphisms in their nuDNA,
"Bigfoots are approximately 1/2 way between humans and chimps."
and their mtDNA is human. So they are some sort of hybrid. (!!!)
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2...ckson-project/
Bigfoots are not quite us!!!
Plus gossip of strife between the various factions, and the tale of the two murdered Bigfoots becomes more accusatory in tone.
Is a demand for a sample of Obama's DNA in the cards? Stay tuned.

[LTC8K6]

Half way eh?

Such a nice scientific term...

[William Parcher]

If you saw a child being abducted by an enemy tribe you'd be a fool to describe the abductor as a giant woodland demon. You'll never get your kid back or revenge on the enemy tribe if you've got your braves out looking for a Saquatch.

Also, did NAs commit infanticide? You go toss your unwanted baby into the river and then wander back to the village and say that Sasquatch took her.

[GT/CS]

Parcher, you're overthinking it.

[parnassus]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Now hold on there.

Abduction raids were not conducted by giant apemen. If they were witnessed in the act, then nobody saw anything other than nearby (enemy) tribe members who may have even been identifiable by their appearance. If they were not witnessed, then their description is fantasy or speculation. Why wouldn't common wild animals be implicated such as bears or cougars (or others in the Pleistocene epoch)?

When a tribe had experienced abductions they may have later also raided the enemy tribe and found their own stolen tribe members. Our children weren't taken by giant apemen. They were taken by our enemies and they aren't Sasquatch.

If you read the early translations of the legends, not the "strained" versions, you will see that by and large these "creatures" acted human, used tools, clothing, shelter, boats etc. They were just bigger, stronger and in some cases hairier. In some cases they were smaller and not hairy. In many cases they were just clearly men, sometimes feral. Ted Kazinski, Bigfoot to tiny hairless Eskimos.

[mustbeso]

I was happy to find out that bigfoot years are about twice as long as human years according to Robert Lindsay. If they are human, why do their years need to be longer? I also thought that it was telling that Melba Ketchum chimed in. I hope they remove all the sharp objects at these bigfoot conferences, it could get really ugly.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by GT/CS

Parcher, you're overthinking it.

It doesn't hurt anything to have as many thoughts as possible laid out on this table. Nobody can say what exactly was behind the Native American myths that are now attributed to Bigfoot by some people. Parn, says it was other humans. It might not be that simple.

[Deacondark]

Lets not forget that Native Americans may have dressed up in frightening costumes, or animal hides to conduct these raids. It's not uncommon throughout history.

[The Shrike]

. . . And if the risk of abduction was higher in certain areas of "no man's land" between tribal boundaries, then you'd be likely to warn your young'ns to never go there. Of course, if you tell those young'ns that they can't go there because our enemies are there, then you're basically daring them to go to prove their bravery. If, however, you tell them some mystical, giant, shape-shifting, uber-cunning monster/spirits live there, you might have some better luck keeping your kids closer to home.

I'm pretty sure this is why my parents took us to see "Boggy Creek" - so we wouldn't wander too far on our own in the woods. (My kids are easy - I just say "ticks" and you can't pay them enough to go there.)

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by parnassus

I'm saying that legendary monsters usually originate from real things.

The random Bigfooter in Oklahoma who says he watched a Bigfoot and that there is no way that he was mistaken or hoaxed. What "real thing" is his monster originated from?