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Tags bigfoot , dna , Ed Smith , Melba Ketchum

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Old 21st August 2011, 03:30 PM   #241
Deacondark
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Originally Posted by River View Post
You're reading wayyy to much into this. You know as well as I do there is no body. This is all part of the game to generate interest and dollars, and good ole legend fun.


Of course there is no body. It just blows my mind that people think there is. Whats going on right now is a bunch of people trying to figure out how to handle a tall tale that's gotten way out of hand.
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Old 21st August 2011, 03:47 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Deacondark View Post
It just blows my mind that people think there is.
It shouldn't surprise you. They apparently believe in Bigfoot and also that somebody could shoot one. There are also those who believe the Albert Ostman story. They believe in Bigfoot and also believe that a Bigfoot could abduct a person.

Underlying this is their belief that at least some Bigfoot storytellers are telling the truth.
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Old 21st August 2011, 04:06 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It shouldn't surprise you. They apparently believe in Bigfoot and also that somebody could shoot one. There are also those who believe the Albert Ostman story. They believe in Bigfoot and also believe that a Bigfoot could abduct a person.

Underlying this is their belief that at least some Bigfoot storytellers are telling the truth.

At least a few of them are apparently willing to believe even weirder stuff...

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Old 21st August 2011, 04:49 PM   #244
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Paulides apparently went into Hoopa and other NA communities and offered payments to tribal members who would describe Bigfoot to his forensic artist. I won't say that the money was an inducement to make up stories, but some have commented on the resemblance of the sketches to Paulides himself.
What does one suppose would then happen when the white guy with the money says he will pay even more money to anyone who brings in hair or any part of a Bigfoot?
Of course, the specimens will come, and the bearers will manage to keep a straight face.
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Old 21st August 2011, 08:26 PM   #245
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I don't know how many of you are keeping up with the 'Sierra kills' storyline via Robert Lindsay, but it gets wierder by the day. If you read between the lines it seems some of the parties are trying to get out from under this fiasco while the true believers lap up everything. I don't know if Richard Stubstad is a complete stooge or complicit in this nonsense but he is posting many strange things on Robert Lindsay's blog. There are at least three different scenarios involving the killing of two bigfoots and the sending of a "bigfoot steak" carved from one of the dead critters to Melba Ketchum or perhaps someone else? That nobody bothered to take a picture of the corpses and that there is no provenance, no chain of evidence whatsoever bothers none of them one little bit. It seems the deeper this gets the more impossible it will be for most of them to save face and that should be high drama in the end.
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Old 21st August 2011, 08:42 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by mustbeso View Post
It seems the deeper this gets the more impossible it will be for most of them to save face and that should be high drama in the end.
And I for one can't wait! It's going to get good folks. This will make the Georgia Bigfoot fiasco look like child's play!
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Old 21st August 2011, 08:46 PM   #247
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http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2...-sierra-kills/
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Old 21st August 2011, 08:56 PM   #248
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These bigfoot doofuses are nothing but a bunch of scammers after a quick buck.

There's no evidence, just some scraps of hair that's obviously human. There's no way this can ever top the guys in Georgia a few years back with the ice-frozen Bigfoot corpse.
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Old 21st August 2011, 09:09 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
These bigfoot doofuses are nothing but a bunch of scammers after a quick buck.

There's no evidence, just some scraps of hair that's obviously human. There's no way this can ever top the guys in Georgia a few years back with the ice-frozen Bigfoot corpse.
I think the fallout will exceed the Georgia hoax. This has been building up for years, and a lot more people have their reputations at stake in this. Georgia was just Biscardi, and his reputation is, well, less than stellar anyway.
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Old 21st August 2011, 10:03 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Deacondark View Post
I think the fallout will exceed the Georgia hoax. This has been building up for years, and a lot more people have their reputations at stake in this. Georgia was just Biscardi, and his reputation is, well, less than stellar anyway.

It's always good fun when Bigfoot hoaxes are debunked. But what made the 2008 story especially hilarious was the way it unfolded in the media. By the time they thawed it out and the press started having a field day with the fact it was a cheapass store-bought gorilla costume, the two Georgia guys (one of whom was a cop) had already absconded with the investors' cash, forestalling the inevitable day of reckoning and drawing out the drama.

Whatever happens behind this might prove more devastating for the BF-hunters' community, but I doubt it will pack the same dramatic impact for the average, casual viewers at home.
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Old 21st August 2011, 10:08 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
"...For the record, I do believe that Justin Smeja shot and killed two Bigfoots in that region in late October of last year. The story simply must be true, as unbelievable as it sounds..."

What's 'unbelievable' is a serious assertion that the story 'simply must be true'. It just 'simply must' huh? Because if it isn't it would surely hurt morale amongst the faithful? We all know the Bigfoot Faithful Local 69 union contract vote is coming up and you don't want the rank-and-file members to lose the faith just when you need them the most?
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Old 21st August 2011, 10:13 PM   #252
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For the life of me I'll never understand why some people believe so strongly in this weird thing that they need so desperately to see its existence verified.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 12:12 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
For the life of me I'll never understand why some people believe so strongly in this weird thing that they need so desperately to see its existence verified.
Hello just about all religions
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Old 22nd August 2011, 08:19 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Deacondark View Post
I think the fallout will exceed the Georgia hoax. This has been building up for years, and a lot more people have their reputations at stake in this. Georgia was just Biscardi, and his reputation is, well, less than stellar anyway.

I don't think there was any significant fallout from the Georgia Hoax.

But this new thing (which is actually multiple simultaneous things) cannot really have the slam dunk instant debunk in your face that was the Georgia thing. I was the first to conclusively debunk the Georgia Hoax by showing the photo of the frozen Bigfoot next to the photo of the commercial Bigfoot mask. I didn't even put any text into that post. It was just picture next to picture and that was worth 1000 words. Over and done in one single post. Instantly, there was no way for anyone to explain that the body was real and that was even before it was thawed out and found to be a costume with some possum guts. Very obviously an intentional hoax.

But nothing like that will be available for the coming DNA stuff. We may never even get to see any photos of the original material submitted for testing (bone, tooth, "steak", hair, etc). We may never even get to see any actual copies of the DNA analysis results in a raw uninterpreted form (straight from the lab). If the paper(s) are rejected by mainstream scientific journals we may never even get to see the actual full explanation of why they were rejected.

Even in a worst case scenario they still have "good faith mistakes" fallbacks. We really thought we had Bigfoot biological material but I guess we didn't after all. We thought the bone fragment was Bigfoot but it wasn't. We thought the hair was Bigfoot but it wasn't. Etc. This kind of damage control essentially can absolve Bigfootery and specific Bigfooters of intentional hoaxery in a way that the Georgia scam never could.

I don't see how this is going to wreck Bigfootery when you have all these folks saying that they've seen Bigfoot with their own eyes. The PGF isn't suddenly going to become fake in the eyes of the believers no matter what is the outcome of this DNA thing. These make up the solid rock foundation of Bigfootery and it isn't going away.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 08:35 AM   #255
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It will just be another FAIL!!11! on the part of Bigfooters to hype something up, and hope the proof shakes out from the hype.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 08:40 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Óšinn View Post
And 19% possum.
Maybe it was a Boogy name Frito. He's a halfling. Half boggie half opposum.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 08:51 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
For the life of me I'll never understand why some people believe so strongly in this weird thing that they need so desperately to see its existence verified.

Hello just about all religions

I don't think most religious people desperately need a miracle to prove to everyone how correct they are. I believe most religious folks just live every day with their beliefs as a matter of fact. They do the rituals and meditate on the lessons because there's comfort in going through the motions they've been taught since birth, that are socially acceptable to the community they identify with.

On the other hand, it appears that these bigfooters, like the flying saucerers, are in the unenviable position of having an irrational belief in this wacky pop-culture thing that most people find laughable. So they catch a lot of crap about it from family, friends, associates, and anyone else not similarly obsessed. Seems like it would be a constant source of doubt, causing a lot of internal struggle. Quite a different situation from the average religioid.

While religion may be irrational, most of its adherents don't appear crazy, whereas most bigfooters certainly do. Bigfootery is more like an obsessive doomsday cult: desperately anticipating, right on the cusp of the Earth-shattering event that will prove them right in their beliefs, and everybody else wrong.

No wonder they consistently fall prey to con-men, hucksters and charlatans.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 09:54 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't think there was any significant fallout from the Georgia Hoax.

But this new thing (which is actually multiple simultaneous things) cannot really have the slam dunk instant debunk in your face that was the Georgia thing. ...

But nothing like that will be available for the coming DNA stuff. We may never even get to see any photos of the original material submitted for testing (bone, tooth, "steak", hair, etc). We may never even get to see any actual copies of the DNA analysis results in a raw uninterpreted form (straight from the lab). If the paper(s) are rejected by mainstream scientific journals we may never even get to see the actual full explanation of why they were rejected.

Even in a worst case scenario they still have "good faith mistakes" fallbacks. We really thought we had Bigfoot biological material but I guess we didn't after all. We thought the bone fragment was Bigfoot but it wasn't. We thought the hair was Bigfoot but it wasn't. Etc. This kind of damage control essentially can absolve Bigfootery and specific Bigfooters of intentional hoaxery in a way that the Georgia scam never could.

I don't see how this is going to wreck Bigfootery when you have all these folks saying that they've seen Bigfoot with their own eyes. The PGF isn't suddenly going to become fake in the eyes of the believers no matter what is the outcome of this DNA thing. These make up the solid rock foundation of Bigfootery and it isn't going away.
Cult behavior:
The majority of believers will find confirmation in whatever DNA results are released. It doesn't matter what the results are. As I have been saying for months, "human" is a fine result for footers; but it must 1) somehow be distinguishable from garden variety white Anglo DNA, and 2) appear to be somewhat consistent across long distances.

Both of these requirements are easily met by collecting specimens from a small isolated tribe and then representing that the samples were collected in widely separated locations.

The Georgia hoax held up bigfootery to ridicule in the eyes of non believers. But for the majority of believers it was just an incentive to proselytize more fervently. This flurry of activity, if its a complete bust, will go pretty much unnoticed by the general public. For the footers, there will always be tomorrow.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 09:57 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't think there was any significant fallout from the Georgia Hoax.

But this new thing (which is actually multiple simultaneous things) cannot really have the slam dunk instant debunk in your face that was the Georgia thing. I was the first to conclusively debunk the Georgia Hoax by showing the photo of the frozen Bigfoot next to the photo of the commercial Bigfoot mask. I didn't even put any text into that post. It was just picture next to picture and that was worth 1000 words. Over and done in one single post. Instantly, there was no way for anyone to explain that the body was real and that was even before it was thawed out and found to be a costume with some possum guts. Very obviously an intentional hoax.

But nothing like that will be available for the coming DNA stuff. We may never even get to see any photos of the original material submitted for testing (bone, tooth, "steak", hair, etc). We may never even get to see any actual copies of the DNA analysis results in a raw uninterpreted form (straight from the lab). If the paper(s) are rejected by mainstream scientific journals we may never even get to see the actual full explanation of why they were rejected.

Even in a worst case scenario they still have "good faith mistakes" fallbacks. We really thought we had Bigfoot biological material but I guess we didn't after all. We thought the bone fragment was Bigfoot but it wasn't. We thought the hair was Bigfoot but it wasn't. Etc. This kind of damage control essentially can absolve Bigfootery and specific Bigfooters of intentional hoaxery in a way that the Georgia scam never could.

I don't see how this is going to wreck Bigfootery when you have all these folks saying that they've seen Bigfoot with their own eyes. The PGF isn't suddenly going to become fake in the eyes of the believers no matter what is the outcome of this DNA thing. These make up the solid rock foundation of Bigfootery and it isn't going away.
Well, there is the video evidence they supposedly have. They say they have video of a sleeping squatch that gets up and walks away, and numerous other video clips of other squatches. Of course, nobody objective has seen those yet, they don't seem to be available or leaked anywhere.

I can see how the whole project can sort of disintegrate into the mist if done with various mutinies, political desertions into obscurity and so on, and eventually people (bigfooters) will just let it die in peace, knowing that there is something suspicious about it enough to let it go and not drag it out as an embarrassing skeleton in the closet.

That said, I'd still like to see the videos they say they have. :-) And yeah, I do see some parallels to the whole Roger Patterson, PGF marketing machine trying to hype the whole "project" up. But at least the PGF made a debut.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 10:14 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by parnassus View Post
The majority of believers will find confirmation in whatever DNA results are released. It doesn't matter what the results are.

There may be no raw analysis released at all. If journals reject the Ketchum paper the results won't be published unless she chooses to do it on her own. Who knows if the raw data would be shown or a narrative interpretation instead (the data would be gibberish to you guys so I'm just gonna tell you what it shows). She has already said that any rejection would be strictly because of anti-Bigfoot bias and not because of the actual science.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 10:18 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Tontar View Post
They say they have video of a sleeping squatch that gets up and walks away, and numerous other video clips of other squatches.

I read that the sleeping female Bigfoot does not get up and walk away. She moves around somewhat on the ground but that's it. The walking Bigfoot is a different video. The videos are said to be hi-def, close, and very clear.

One reviewer of the videos said something that is a red flag. The eyes don't blink.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 10:20 AM   #262
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Well, we've seen what they call a sleeping sasquatch, I believe.

IIRC, Marx's videos were better.

I want to see Parcher better his debunking time...assuming they give us something we can work with...
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Old 23rd August 2011, 10:20 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
I don't think most religious people desperately need a miracle to prove to everyone how correct they are. I believe most religious folks just live every day with their beliefs as a matter of fact. They do the rituals and meditate on the lessons because there's comfort in going through the motions they've been taught since birth, that are socially acceptable to the community they identify with.

On the other hand, it appears that these bigfooters, like the flying saucerers, are in the unenviable position of having an irrational belief in this wacky pop-culture thing that most people find laughable. So they catch a lot of crap about it from family, friends, associates, and anyone else not similarly obsessed. Seems like it would be a constant source of doubt, causing a lot of internal struggle. Quite a different situation from the average religioid.

While religion may be irrational, most of its adherents don't appear crazy, whereas most bigfooters certainly do. Bigfootery is more like an obsessive doomsday cult: desperately anticipating, right on the cusp of the Earth-shattering event that will prove them right in their beliefs, and everybody else wrong.

No wonder they consistently fall prey to con-men, hucksters and charlatans.
I will stick with my statement. I don't see most religious people as overbearing, or annoying with their beliefs. I can say the same for bigfooters. Just like in religions, there are extreme elements, and hucksters out to make a dollar. I think its pretty equally distributed amongst "beliefs" of any kind. Doesnt really matter if its ghosts, religions, bigfoot, physics, *insertyourbeliefhere*.

I have many friends that believe in religions, and some have other weird beliefs or superstitions. Doesnt change my friendship with them. Everr try to change someones beliefs? You cant. They have to change from within. I think change can be assisted with education, with clarity and with patience. Remove any of those elements and watch the hilarity ensue.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 11:44 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There may be no raw analysis released at all. If journals reject the Ketchum paper the results won't be published unless she chooses to do it on her own. Who knows if the raw data would be shown or a narrative interpretation instead (the data would be gibberish to you guys so I'm just gonna tell you what it shows). She has already said that any rejection would be strictly because of anti-Bigfoot bias and not because of the actual science.
WP
She has a big series. She seems to have over a hundred specimens submitted by hopeful footers. Even if every one of them was by DNA a readily identified animal or human that would be very publishable. A slam dunk. It would not necessarily be pleasing to footers, but they would not give up. it would be appropriate for a number of journals. If it never appears in print it is totally by her choosing.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:13 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post

I don't think there was any significant But nothing like that will be available for the coming DNA stuff. We may never even get to see any photos of the original material submitted for testing (bone, tooth, "steak", hair, etc). We may never even get to see any actual copies of the DNA analysis results in a raw uninterpreted form (straight from the lab). If the paper(s) are rejected by mainstream scientific journals we may never even get to see the actual full explanation of why they were rejected.
Not so fast, when the paper gets published, or at such time as I feel the paper will never get published, I'll send a sample to anyone of the JREF's choosing, however we need to see the methods used and regions of the DNA that are targeted, plus the results so that independent analysis can replicate it.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 12:52 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by southernyahoo View Post
I'll send a sample to anyone of the JREF's choosing...
What part of a Bigfoot body do you have?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 01:24 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What part of a Bigfoot body do you have?
I have hair with roots attached.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 01:30 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by southernyahoo View Post
I have hair with roots attached.

And you know this came from a Bigfoot how?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 01:36 PM   #269
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I could only know through science, I didn't pull them from a bigfoot. The hair will be part of Dr. Ketchums paper. I'm willing to be part of a second test on atleast one of the many samples but under the right conditions and the right time.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 02:08 PM   #270
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What was it about the circumstances of the finding of the hair that had you thinking it came from Bigfoot?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 02:32 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What was it about the circumstances of the finding of the hair that had you thinking it came from Bigfoot?
Multiple sightings reported in the area.
The hair was found on a tree with twisted / broken limbs.
The hair appeared long and fine with many natural tapered ends indicating they hadn't been cut.

These are just a few observations that made me take interest in them.

You can read more about the find and what has been done to date to indentify them here.

http://www.texlaresearch.com/hairanalysis.htm

What I'm asking from you people is to name who you would choose to either validate or refute Dr. Ketchums findings.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 02:46 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by southernyahoo View Post
Multiple sightings reported in the area.
The hair was found on a tree with twisted / broken limbs.
The hair appeared long and fine with many natural tapered ends indicating they hadn't been cut.

These are just a few observations that made me take interest in them.

You can read more about the find and what has been done to date to indentify them here.

http://www.texlaresearch.com/hairanalysis.htm

What I'm asking from you people is to name who you would choose to either validate or refute Dr. Ketchums findings.
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Last edited by Resume; 23rd August 2011 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 02:52 PM   #273
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There might be two updates, one with more pictures and explanation of what we have observed from that find, and another with a link to DR. Ketchums results when they are published. I'll see about getting the first one up asap.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 03:05 PM   #274
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(Followed the link.)

So this bigfoot was messing about, beating up a redcedar in an Oklahoma pasture, and left behind some hairs that very closely match the microscopic image of horse hair on the website?

BTW, I know a guy in TN who did research on those eastern Oklahoma black bears. He says they're well dispersed through the Ouachitas in eastern Oklahoma. If these bigfoot hairs were taken from a location 120 miles west of that range, then we're talking about somewhere in the I-35 corridor, and potentially a good distance west of the interstate. Please please please be from the vicinity of the "Lucky Star" casino in Concho!
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Old 23rd August 2011, 03:41 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by southernyahoo View Post
What I'm asking from you people is to name who you would choose to either validate or refute Dr. Ketchums findings.

The peer reviewers that will already be looking at her submission to the journals(s).
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Old 23rd August 2011, 04:05 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by southernyahoo View Post
...What I'm asking from you people is to name who you would choose to either validate or refute Dr. Ketchums findings.
Roger Patterson. He's been so good at perpetuating the Bigfoot myth even 40 years after his death that he's 'simply gotta be' our go-to-guy on this one too.

Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
...Please please please be from the vicinity of the "Lucky Star" casino in Concho!
Is that the Bigfoot friendly casino we've heard so much about? Didn't they find Bigfoot's cell phone in the employee bathroom or something but couldn't find an unexpired 3M® Used Condom & Fingerprint 'dusting kit' in time and it just turned into a big fiasco? It's always something.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 04:27 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The peer reviewers that will already be looking at her submission to the journals(s).
Do you trust them? How about Disotell.

How about you shrike, got anyone you'd like to suggest to double check Dr. K's work?
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Old 23rd August 2011, 04:49 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by southernyahoo View Post
Do you trust them? How about Disotell.
The peer reviewers are experts in their field. They are also anonymous and that is exactly what you want. If your DNA sample is shown to be an unknown species of great ape (that includes hominids) then gears will probably turn. Another sample (which you have) will probably be requested for replication of analysis and it may be one or more of the original peer reviewers that attempts the replication. If it's a green light then they won't remain anonymous because the replication would be published along with the Ketchum paper.

If there is a red light thumbs down it means that your hair didn't come from an unknown species of great ape. Accept that and don't play the anti-Bigfoot conspiracy card.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 05:07 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
Roger Patterson. He's been so good at perpetuating the Bigfoot myth even 40 years after his death that he's 'simply gotta be' our go-to-guy on this one too.
We need new blood, someone you wouldn't doubt.
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Old 23rd August 2011, 05:09 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The peer reviewers are experts in their field. They are also anonymous and that is exactly what you want. If your DNA sample is shown to be an unknown species of great ape (that includes hominids) then gears will probably turn. Another sample (which you have) will probably be requested for replication of analysis and it may be one or more of the original peer reviewers that attempts the replication. If it's a green light then they won't remain anonymous because the replication would be published along with the Ketchum paper.

If there is a red light thumbs down it means that your hair didn't come from an unknown species of great ape. Accept that and don't play the anti-Bigfoot conspiracy card.
I hadn't thought of the reviewers being interested in doing it, but don't see why if they were, they would hold Ketchums paper until they could do it.
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