Faith healer Kenneth Copeland denied tax exemption for jet

Questioninggeller · 21st December 2008, 11:41 AM

Kenneth Copeland is a faith healer who worked for and was subsequently trained by Oral Roberts. He was recently asked to provide financial details to the Senate, but has refused. A week ago the county tax assessor has a made ruling on a second jet.

Quote:

Televangelist's $3.6 million jet not tax-exempt, Tarrant appraiser says
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram
December 6th, 2008
By DARREN BARBEE

A Kenneth Copeland Ministry jet worth $3.6 million has been denied tax-exempt status by the Tarrant Appraisal District, setting the stage for a battle that could require the minister to reveal his salary if he wants the jet to be tax-free.

Jeffery D. Law, Tarrant chief appraiser, said the jet was denied tax exemption because the ministry failed to disclose salaries of directors as an application requires. Law said the ministry, based in Newark, northwest of Fort Worth, will protest the denial at a hearing Monday morning.

"The application requires that they submit to us a list of salaries," Law said. "They have not given it to us, and as a result we have denied their exemption."

Compensation paid Copeland and other members of his family has been the source of a U.S. senator’s inquiry, but the televangelist has been unwilling to disclose the information publicly.

If the ministry gives the compensation information to the appraisal district, it would be open to public disclosure, Law said.

The jet in question is a 1998 Cessna Bravo 550 that was given to the ministry last year.
...
He stated that the ministry, also known as Eagle Mountain International Church, uses its assets only in performing the organization’s religious functions.
...
It’s not the first time the ministry has been reluctant to release certain financial information. Last year, Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, asked Copeland and other ministers to provide financial information to him as part of an investigation into the reportedly lavish lifestyles of televangelists.

Kenneth and Gloria Copeland have given partial responses to most of his questions but didn’t answer questions about compensation.
...

Source

On the Copeland jet and the cancer victim who raised funds for it:

Quote:

Jet flight records spur Copeland ministry questions
11:57 PM CST on Wednesday, February 28, 2007
By BRETT SHIPP
WFAA-TV

...
For the past several months, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland of Fort Worth have been traveling the globe in a new $20 million jet. They pledged that the aircraft would be used for the purpose of serving their ministry.
...
Kenneth and Gloria Copeland's Believers' Voice of Victory ministry is broadcast around the world. The couple preaches not only the gospel of prosperity, but the promise of healing through faith.

It was the prospect of wellness that for years lured Bonnie Parker of Winnsboro, La. to the Copelands' broadcast every Sunday morning, said Parker's family.

Believer after believer, much like Parker, lined up to be healed by the Copelands. For many, they believed all it took was faith. And according to Parker's husband Alvin and their daughter, it also took something else - money.

"We know it was a lot, a whole lot," said Kristy Beach, Parker's daughter, talking about the amount of money Bonnie Parker donated.

She said the total reached into the the tens of thousands, and possibly even hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Parker also spent money on the lottery. Handwritten notes reflected her desire to remit her winnings to the Copelands, whom she said she believed could stop the cancer ravaging her body.
...
"It will never, ever be used as long as it is in our care, for anything other than what is becoming to you, Lord Jesus," he said.
...
According to flight records obtained by News 8, the Copeland jet, on its way to an evangelical seminar in Australia last October, made a two-day layover in Maui. Then it was on to the Fiji islands for another stop.

After seven days in Australia, the Copelands headed to Honolulu for another three days of what they called "eating and rest."

Last December, amid other evangelical stops, there was a jet ride to the Yampa Valley Airport in Colorado, just a few miles away from Steamboat Springs Ski Resort.

That same day, the jet flew back to the Copelands' private airport north of Fort Worth.

Five days later, the jet traveled to the Yampa Valley Airport near Steamboat and returned to Texas.

One week later, there was another trip. This time, to the LaFonda Ranch in Southwest Texas, a favorite stop over the years for Kenneth Copeland and his son, John.

The La Fonda Ranch is described as a working cattle and hunting ranch located in the arid brush country.
...
Meanwhile, Parker's husband said Bonnie died believing she hadn't given enough money to Kenneth and Gloria Copeland.

Parker and Beach said they asked the Copelands for an accounting of Bonnie's contributions.
...
The Copeland ministry declined requests for an interview, and pointed to an accounting firm's declaration that all jet travel complies with federal tax laws.

A request to see their annual tax filings and list of Board of Directors was also denied.
...

Full story at Source

The WFAA-TV story on the Copeland jet and a cancer victim, seeking to be healed, who won the lottery. She subsequently died. Video with about the jet and donor (2007):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

BBC report on the Grassley investigation (July 2008):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Video about denial of exemption (2008):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Roadtoad · 21st December 2008, 11:52 AM

Frankly, considering Copeland's more about Finances than Faith, I don't think he deserves a tax exemption, period. If you want to throw good money away, that's your business, but I don't think I ought to be providing vicarious license to that kind of brainless waste by allowing an exemption from tax money due. The closest thing to this whole business of Copeland's is the "psychics" on TV. At least James Van Praagh pays taxes for what he does.

slingblade · 21st December 2008, 03:58 PM

When I talk about my religious background, that's it.

I grew up in Tulsa, which city has always been firmly under the shadow of religious...fanatics? Zealots? Whatever word floats this turd, that's the one to use.

In 1977, I saw the Oral Roberts Money-Handlers in their temple. My ~~sperm-donor~~ father tried to get me to go to work there. A machine opened the envelopes and young ladies like me removed the checks and threw away the letters. I watched for 5 minutes, turned, left, called my dad and said "You really are out of your mind, aren't you? Does Grandma know what they do with the letters she writes him every week?"

She cried over those letters, prayed over them, and wrote them with a hand shaky from old age. And every one went in the garbage.

I've mentioned "Prosperity Preaching" here before. Now, it's in print before us, in this article. When folks want to tell me the religion I grew up believing in can't be mainstream, or must only have a relative handful of members, I invite them to look at Tulsa.

grayman · 21st December 2008, 04:05 PM

Can you make out the "N" number on the tail? It looked like 752CX or 152CX, but both numbers aren't registered with the FAA. Curiouser and curiouser.

By the way, the "N" on the tail means it's registered in the U.S. for those of you that may not have known.

kedo1981 · 21st December 2008, 04:31 PM

Oh come on, it's a war againist Christmas

Roadtoad · 21st December 2008, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by kedo1981

Oh come on, it's a war againist Christmas

No. It's a war against ********.

Roadtoad · 21st December 2008, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by slingblade

When I talk about my religious background, that's it.

I grew up in Tulsa, which city has always been firmly under the shadow of religious...fanatics? Zealots? Whatever word floats this turd, that's the one to use.

In 1977, I saw the Oral Roberts Money-Handlers in their temple. My ~~sperm-donor~~ father tried to get me to go to work there. A machine opened the envelopes and young ladies like me removed the checks and threw away the letters. I watched for 5 minutes, turned, left, called my dad and said "You really are out of your mind, aren't you? Does Grandma know what they do with the letters she writes him every week?"

She cried over those letters, prayed over them, and wrote them with a hand shaky from old age. And every one went in the garbage.

I've mentioned "Prosperity Preaching" here before. Now, it's in print before us, in this article. When folks want to tell me the religion I grew up believing in can't be mainstream, or must only have a relative handful of members, I invite them to look at Tulsa.

My grandmother made a one-time gift of five dollars. After that, she got dunning letters from Oral Roberts, complete with threats to damage her credit.

Makes me wish he'd go off on another "Give me a million or God will call me home!" tangent. Not only would I be willing to see him called home, I'd be willing to send his sorry backside. Bastard.

shadron · 21st December 2008, 04:58 PM

What I'd like to ask the Tarrant County Assessor is, was there a disclosure on the tax exemption on the jet? How about the church in general? His church and his grounds are huge, large enough to require paid security guards in cars to patrol it. How exactly did he get tax exemption for them without disclosing compensation of his directors?

Sounds to me like Senator Grassley may have upset a cozy little applecart run by Tarrant.

Copeland has stated on his TV program that he will not ("pain of death") disclose god's business. I think he needs to quit using god as a skirt.

shadron · 21st December 2008, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by slingblade

In 1977, I saw the Oral Roberts Money-Handlers in their temple. My ~~sperm-donor~~ father tried to get me to go to work there. A machine opened the envelopes and young ladies like me removed the checks and threw away the letters. I watched for 5 minutes, turned, left, called my dad and said "You really are out of your mind, aren't you? Does Grandma know what they do with the letters she writes him every week?"

She cried over those letters, prayed over them, and wrote them with a hand shaky from old age. And every one went in the garbage.

When Randi was investigating Peter Popoff, he did some dumpster diving after the entourage left the convention center they were using. They found stacks of "alter offerings" ("Write your problems down; we will place them on the altar to god and pray over them. Enclose an offering so god can judge your sincerity.") ripped open, offerings extracted, and the remains just tossed in he trash.

Questioninggeller · 21st December 2008, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by shadron

What I'd like to ask the Tarrant County Assessor is, was there a disclosure on the tax exemption on the jet? How about the church in general? His church and his grounds are huge, large enough to require paid security guards in cars to patrol it. How exactly did he get tax exemption for them without disclosing compensation of his directors?

Sounds to me like Senator Grassley may have upset a cozy little applecart run by Tarrant.

Copeland has stated on his TV program that he will not ("pain of death") disclose god's business. I think he needs to quit using god as a skirt.

One thing I was wondering was its his second jet (the nearly $4 million one) that was denied, but his $200 million jet was given tax exemption. Why single out one? Indeed, where's the IRS? Why can't his records become public like every other non-religious group? I can look up the JREF's finances, but not a man who claims to heal cancer and talk to God.

And why did Copeland get his flight plans taken offline?

Darth Rotor · 22nd December 2008, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by shadron

When Randi was investigating Peter Popoff, he did some dumpster diving after the entourage left the convention center they were using. They found stacks of "alter offerings" ("Write your problems down; we will place them on the altar to god and pray over them. Enclose an offering so god can judge your sincerity.") ripped open, offerings extracted, and the remains just tossed in he trash.

I guess that mega preacher is just another employee of God's Other Son.

(Book by Don Imus, a bit of a send up of Evangelicals. Worth a look. )

Questioninggeller · 28th February 2009, 03:39 PM

Copeland's absurd accusation, suffering a martyrdom complex due to his second jet:

Quote:

Kenneth Copeland Ministries accuses appraisal district of discrimination
Fort Worth Star Telegram
‎Feb 24, 2009‎
By DARREN BARBEE

Kenneth Copeland Ministries is fighting back against the Tarrant Appraisal District in a bid to win tax exemption for its $3.6 million jet.

In late January, the ministry filed a lawsuit alleging that the district had engaged in religious discrimination and had violated the U.S. and Texas constitutions by denying the exemption.
...
Instead, the suit says, the district routinely grants exemptions to similar organizations without requiring salary information.

That’s incorrect, said Diane Collins, who oversees the exemption-application process for the district.

"The majority of the religious organizations have supplied that information," she said. "We have denied exemptions in other circumstances where the information has not been provided."

But Collins said Copeland’s ministry was previously granted an exemption on an aircraft when an alternate document was submitted in lieu of a salary list.
...

Roadtoad · 28th February 2009, 04:10 PM

Good God! Is this STILL going on?

Copeland and his "ministry" purchase this jet with what is ultimately blood money. He is shamelessly taking money from people expecting help from the hand of God, only to get bitch-slapped for more money from Copeland. And he's claiming DISCRIMINATION, because his practices are questionable, and his actions are evil?

Wow. And people wonder why religion is fading away.

ponderingturtle · 1st March 2009, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by shadron

What I'd like to ask the Tarrant County Assessor is, was there a disclosure on the tax exemption on the jet? How about the church in general? His church and his grounds are huge, large enough to require paid security guards in cars to patrol it. How exactly did he get tax exemption for them without disclosing compensation of his directors?

Isn't being a religious organization great?

ponderingturtle · 1st March 2009, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by shadron

When Randi was investigating Peter Popoff, he did some dumpster diving after the entourage left the convention center they were using. They found stacks of "alter offerings" ("Write your problems down; we will place them on the altar to god and pray over them. Enclose an offering so god can judge your sincerity.") ripped open, offerings extracted, and the remains just tossed in he trash.

Weren't there also stacks of things like $5 checks too?

shadron · 1st March 2009, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Weren't there also stacks of things like $5 checks too?

Not that I heard of.

Roadtoad · 1st March 2009, 04:02 PM

21st December 2008, 03:58 PM	#3
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	When I talk about my religious background, that's it. I grew up in Tulsa, which city has always been firmly under the shadow of religious...fanatics? Zealots? Whatever word floats this turd, that's the one to use. In 1977, I saw the Oral Roberts Money-Handlers in their temple. My ~~sperm-donor~~ father tried to get me to go to work there. A machine opened the envelopes and young ladies like me removed the checks and threw away the letters. I watched for 5 minutes, turned, left, called my dad and said "You really are out of your mind, aren't you? Does Grandma know what they do with the letters she writes him every week?" She cried over those letters, prayed over them, and wrote them with a hand shaky from old age. And every one went in the garbage. I've mentioned "Prosperity Preaching" here before. Now, it's in print before us, in this article. When folks want to tell me the religion I grew up believing in can't be mainstream, or must only have a relative handful of members, I invite them to look at Tulsa.
slingblade Guest Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,642	Last edited by slingblade; 21st December 2008 at 04:00 PM.

21st December 2008, 04:05 PM	#4
grayman Happy-go-lucky Heretic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Casa del Whacko Posts: 6,142	Can you make out the "N" number on the tail? It looked like 752CX or 152CX, but both numbers aren't registered with the FAA. Curiouser and curiouser. By the way, the "N" on the tail means it's registered in the U.S. for those of you that may not have known.
	__________________ Stupidity is a condition. Ignorance is a choice. - Wiley All great truths begin as blasphemies. - George Bernard Shaw God is evil. As soon as you accept that, it all makes sense. - Sledge

21st December 2008, 04:31 PM	#5
kedo1981 Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: ohio Posts: 2,079	Oh come on, it's a war againist Christmas
	__________________ "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good" (I Thessalonians 5:21) I readily admit I don’t know enough to say for sure that there is no God. But I do know enough so say that anyone who claims to know the mind and will of a being such as God is a liar. I have no problem with Jesus, but his fan club sucks!

21st December 2008, 04:58 PM	#8
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,719	What I'd like to ask the Tarrant County Assessor is, was there a disclosure on the tax exemption on the jet? How about the church in general? His church and his grounds are huge, large enough to require paid security guards in cars to patrol it. How exactly did he get tax exemption for them without disclosing compensation of his directors? Sounds to me like Senator Grassley may have upset a cozy little applecart run by Tarrant. Copeland has stated on his TV program that he will not ("pain of death") disclose god's business. I think he needs to quit using god as a skirt.
	Last edited by shadron; 21st December 2008 at 05:02 PM.

21st December 2008, 05:08 PM	#9
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,719	Originally Posted by slingblade In 1977, I saw the Oral Roberts Money-Handlers in their temple. My ~~sperm-donor~~ father tried to get me to go to work there. A machine opened the envelopes and young ladies like me removed the checks and threw away the letters. I watched for 5 minutes, turned, left, called my dad and said "You really are out of your mind, aren't you? Does Grandma know what they do with the letters she writes him every week?" She cried over those letters, prayed over them, and wrote them with a hand shaky from old age. And every one went in the garbage. When Randi was investigating Peter Popoff, he did some dumpster diving after the entourage left the convention center they were using. They found stacks of "alter offerings" ("Write your problems down; we will place them on the altar to god and pray over them. Enclose an offering so god can judge your sincerity.") ripped open, offerings extracted, and the remains just tossed in he trash.
	Last edited by shadron; 21st December 2008 at 05:09 PM.

21st December 2008, 11:52 AM	#2
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Frankly, considering Copeland's more about Finances than Faith, I don't think he deserves a tax exemption, period. If you want to throw good money away, that's your business, but I don't think I ought to be providing vicarious license to that kind of brainless waste by allowing an exemption from tax money due. The closest thing to this whole business of Copeland's is the "psychics" on TV. At least James Van Praagh pays taxes for what he does.

21st December 2008, 04:37 PM	#6
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by kedo1981 Oh come on, it's a war againist Christmas No. It's a war against ********.

21st December 2008, 04:50 PM	#7
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by slingblade When I talk about my religious background, that's it. I grew up in Tulsa, which city has always been firmly under the shadow of religious...fanatics? Zealots? Whatever word floats this turd, that's the one to use. In 1977, I saw the Oral Roberts Money-Handlers in their temple. My ~~sperm-donor~~ father tried to get me to go to work there. A machine opened the envelopes and young ladies like me removed the checks and threw away the letters. I watched for 5 minutes, turned, left, called my dad and said "You really are out of your mind, aren't you? Does Grandma know what they do with the letters she writes him every week?" She cried over those letters, prayed over them, and wrote them with a hand shaky from old age. And every one went in the garbage. I've mentioned "Prosperity Preaching" here before. Now, it's in print before us, in this article. When folks want to tell me the religion I grew up believing in can't be mainstream, or must only have a relative handful of members, I invite them to look at Tulsa. My grandmother made a one-time gift of five dollars. After that, she got dunning letters from Oral Roberts, complete with threats to damage her credit. Makes me wish he'd go off on another "Give me a million or God will call me home!" tangent. Not only would I be willing to see him called home, I'd be willing to send his sorry backside. Bastard.

21st December 2008, 05:23 PM	#10
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,030	Originally Posted by shadron What I'd like to ask the Tarrant County Assessor is, was there a disclosure on the tax exemption on the jet? How about the church in general? His church and his grounds are huge, large enough to require paid security guards in cars to patrol it. How exactly did he get tax exemption for them without disclosing compensation of his directors? Sounds to me like Senator Grassley may have upset a cozy little applecart run by Tarrant. Copeland has stated on his TV program that he will not ("pain of death") disclose god's business. I think he needs to quit using god as a skirt. One thing I was wondering was its his second jet (the nearly $4 million one) that was denied, but his $200 million jet was given tax exemption. Why single out one? Indeed, where's the IRS? Why can't his records become public like every other non-religious group? I can look up the JREF's finances, but not a man who claims to heal cancer and talk to God. And why did Copeland get his flight plans taken offline?

22nd December 2008, 06:24 AM	#11
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by shadron When Randi was investigating Peter Popoff, he did some dumpster diving after the entourage left the convention center they were using. They found stacks of "alter offerings" ("Write your problems down; we will place them on the altar to god and pray over them. Enclose an offering so god can judge your sincerity.") ripped open, offerings extracted, and the remains just tossed in he trash. I guess that mega preacher is just another employee of God's Other Son. (Book by Don Imus, a bit of a send up of Evangelicals. Worth a look. )
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

28th February 2009, 03:39 PM	#12
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,030	Kenneth Copeland Ministries accuses appraisal district of discrimination Copeland's absurd accusation, suffering a martyrdom complex due to his second jet: Quote: Kenneth Copeland Ministries accuses appraisal district of discrimination Fort Worth Star Telegram ‎Feb 24, 2009‎ By DARREN BARBEE Kenneth Copeland Ministries is fighting back against the Tarrant Appraisal District in a bid to win tax exemption for its $3.6 million jet. In late January, the ministry filed a lawsuit alleging that the district had engaged in religious discrimination and had violated the U.S. and Texas constitutions by denying the exemption. ... Instead, the suit says, the district routinely grants exemptions to similar organizations without requiring salary information. That’s incorrect, said Diane Collins, who oversees the exemption-application process for the district. "The majority of the religious organizations have supplied that information," she said. "We have denied exemptions in other circumstances where the information has not been provided." But Collins said Copeland’s ministry was previously granted an exemption on an aircraft when an alternate document was submitted in lieu of a salary list. ...
	Last edited by Questioninggeller; 28th February 2009 at 03:41 PM.

28th February 2009, 04:10 PM	#13
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Good God! Is this STILL going on? Copeland and his "ministry" purchase this jet with what is ultimately blood money. He is shamelessly taking money from people expecting help from the hand of God, only to get bitch-slapped for more money from Copeland. And he's claiming DISCRIMINATION, because his practices are questionable, and his actions are evil? Wow. And people wonder why religion is fading away.

1st March 2009, 05:11 AM	#14
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by shadron What I'd like to ask the Tarrant County Assessor is, was there a disclosure on the tax exemption on the jet? How about the church in general? His church and his grounds are huge, large enough to require paid security guards in cars to patrol it. How exactly did he get tax exemption for them without disclosing compensation of his directors? Isn't being a religious organization great?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

1st March 2009, 05:12 AM	#15
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by shadron When Randi was investigating Peter Popoff, he did some dumpster diving after the entourage left the convention center they were using. They found stacks of "alter offerings" ("Write your problems down; we will place them on the altar to god and pray over them. Enclose an offering so god can judge your sincerity.") ripped open, offerings extracted, and the remains just tossed in he trash. Weren't there also stacks of things like $5 checks too?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

1st March 2009, 03:55 PM	#16
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,719	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Weren't there also stacks of things like $5 checks too? Not that I heard of.

1st March 2009, 04:02 PM	#17
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	More video here.

1st March 2009, 08:24 PM	#18
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,661	Originally Posted by shadron Quote: Weren't there also stacks of things like $5 checks too? Not that I heard of. I read Randi's The Faith Healers years ago, and I recall him mentioning that they found a few small checks, but not stacks of them. Steve S.
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,661	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

1st March 2009, 08:26 PM	#19
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	The stacks of small checks were Peter Popoff. You know, it's pretty bad when even your fellow evangelicals damn you for your greed. Makes you wonder how anyone can listen to Copeland with a straight face.