CONNIE SONNE, Dowser - Page 7

Denver · 12th July 2009, 02:03 PM

I thought the test went very well though, and Connie conducted herself very professionally. Congrats to Connie for taking this test.

ohms · 12th July 2009, 02:08 PM

I almost felt sorry for her checking all the other envelopes at the end of the failed (from her point of view) test. I wonder if she will give any reasons for her failure to get any right.

GzuzKryzt · 12th July 2009, 09:24 PM

Another controlled test of a paranormal claim is in the books.

Nice following through with your claim, Connie. How do you interpret the results?

laca · 12th July 2009, 11:55 PM

Too many negative energies in the room I suppose.

Pixel42 · 13th July 2009, 12:27 AM

She said before she took the test how she would interpret failure - that the mysterious entities responsible for her abilities had decided that the world was not ready for them to be revealed after all.

laca · 13th July 2009, 12:29 AM

How convenient.

rjh01 · 13th July 2009, 12:38 AM

Do not expect to see a response from her in this thread. She has not visited the forum since about 21 June 2009

BayAreaGuy · 13th July 2009, 01:21 AM

I hope Connie reads this!

I attended the preliminary test today in Las Vegas, and wanted to compliment you on your amazing courage in coming to be tested in front of so many of us who are skeptical of such "powers." You handled yourself with grace and decorum, and are to be commended, in my opinion, for doing so. I was sad to see that you did not pass the test, and felt very bad that the protocol made it necessary for you to cut open nearly 30 envelopes. That must have been tedious and boring, especially since you probably just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. (I do understand why it was necessary, as I'm sure you do).

Take care, and I wish you the best of luck in the future! : )

-- Sheldon W. Helms, San Ramon, California.

BayAreaGuy · 13th July 2009, 01:25 AM

I'd like to make a general comment about the lack of decorum in this thread. I'm surprised by the vitriol being shown in here. As I said in my earlier post, I attended the "Million Dollar Challenge" preliminary testing today with Ms. Sonne, and from what I saw, she really does not deserve the treatment some of you are dishing out. She handled herself very professionally, and was very graceful after failing the test.

In my opinion, each of you should take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're showing that level of maturity and/or decorum in your positions as representatives of the Skeptic community. If the answer is no, you should begin to change your behavior, even when it is relatively anonymous and you're hiding behind a computer screen.

steenkh · 13th July 2009, 01:29 AM

It is quite convenient, but she is so convinced of her abilities that she is not merely deluded, but she has probably serious psychological problems.

I always found it strange how she headed directly for the disaster, refusing to make even the simplest self-test of something she admitted she had never tried before. It is as if she wanted to fail.

laca · 13th July 2009, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by BayAreaGuy

I'd like to make a general comment about the lack of decorum in this thread. I'm surprised by the vitriol being shown in here. As I said in my earlier post, I attended the "Million Dollar Challenge" preliminary testing today with Ms. Sonne, and from what I saw, she really does not deserve the treatment some of you are dishing out. She handled herself very professionally, and was very graceful after failing the test.

Yes, she did not start accusing the protocol and/or the negative energies from the crowd at site, I'll give her that.

However, I've read here that she already knew what to say in event of failure:

Quote:

She said before she took the test how she would interpret failure - that the mysterious entities responsible for her abilities had decided that the world was not ready for them to be revealed after all.

Now that is not graceful. Nor prefessional. Whatever that means in case of a self-proclaimed psychic. What that shows is an enormous amount of self-delusion. We should not encourage anyone who is delusional.

laca · 13th July 2009, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by steenkh

It is quite convenient, but she is so convinced of her abilities that she is not merely deluded, but she has probably serious psychological problems.

I always found it strange how she headed directly for the disaster, refusing to make even the simplest self-test of something she admitted she had never tried before. It is as if she wanted to fail.

She couldn't fail in her own eyes. In case of apparent failure she had the explanation already: mystical entities deciding the world is not ready for her powers. In case she did the dowsing for the very first time at the live MDC, that would seem also an out for her.

Pixel42 · 13th July 2009, 01:47 AM

From earlier in the thread, in response to questions as to how she would react if she failed the test:

Originally Posted by connie sonne

Jackalgirl and Yairhol, where it all comes from, there`s a lot of humor. If it will happen, that I fail the test..there`s a reason. Then I will make the new step afterwards, not by testing again, but something else..Yeah, no matter what is going to happen, I will never make a doubt about my abilities. In a year now, my life and the things I`m doing is like a puzzle, but ALWAYS I do the new step to go on...and I already have many evidences and more will come,

.

Originally Posted by connie sonne

And for Dann, God dosn`t excist...there is something else. It`s not about belief or faith, it`s about knowing, Our planet is ready for the truth only now, therefore other people couldn`t come through the challenge...they were not allowed to.

Originally Posted by Pixel42

She has already made clear what her explanation for failure will be (here and here). She will conclude that the mysterious powers with whom she is in contact have decided that the world is still not ready for the paranormal to be revealed.

Originally Posted by connie sonne

Erlando, I allready have answered that like Pixel42 told you. That must be enough

.

steenkh · 13th July 2009, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by laca

Now that is not graceful. Nor prefessional. Whatever that means in case of a self-proclaimed psychic.

Why would that not be graceful? She is not (yet) claiming that she has been treated wrongly, or that the MDC as a scam, which would be disgraceful in my eyes. As for professionalism, I have no idea what profession you are talking about. What would a professional dowser or psychic do?

Quote:

What that shows is an enormous amount of self-delusion. We should not encourage anyone who is delusional.

That could be true. But the value of the MDC is not the effect it has on the psychics and other who line up for the test, but for the rest of the world that believes that such powers exist.

the_anxious_medic · 13th July 2009, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by steenkh

It is quite convenient, but she is so convinced of her abilities that she is not merely deluded, but she has probably serious psychological problems.

I always found it strange how she headed directly for the disaster, refusing to make even the simplest self-test of something she admitted she had never tried before. It is as if she wanted to fail.

If there is one thing that was repeated not only at TAM this year but by other luminaries suchas Carl Sagan and Michael Shermer - people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not dumb or crazy they just are making some mistakes in how they perceive the natural world. In other worlds, they are using heuristics that make them come to false conclusions - they are creatures that are a result of evolution -just like the rest of us.

Calling them crazy does nothing to advance the conversation, it only serves to make the claiment feel more self-important and superior.

steenkh · 13th July 2009, 02:04 AM

[quote=the_anxious_medic;4898425]If there is one thing that was repeated not only at TAM this year but by other luminaries suchas Carl Sagan and Michael Shermer - people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not dumb or crazy they just are making some mistakes in how they perceive the natural world. In other worlds, they are using heuristics that make them come to false conclusions - they are creatures that are a result of evolution -just like the rest of us.

Quote:

Calling them crazy does nothing to advance the conversation, it only serves to make the claiment feel more self-important and superior.

In this case we have a person who believes she is given special powers by supernatural aliens with whom she regularly communicates. While not being a psychiatrist, I believe there is a possible diagnosis for people who hear voices and base their life on them.

laca · 13th July 2009, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by steenkh

Why would that not be graceful? She is not (yet) claiming that she has been treated wrongly, or that the MDC as a scam, which would be disgraceful in my eyes.

Well in my definition of graceful there is the thing where you admit that you were wrong. I might be wrong though.

Originally Posted by steenkh

As for professionalism, I have no idea what profession you are talking about. What would a professional dowser or psychic do?

That was my point exactly.

Originally Posted by steenkh

That could be true. But the value of the MDC is not the effect it has on the psychics and other who line up for the test, but for the rest of the world that believes that such powers exist.

Yes, I agree that the point is not to make the contestants realize they're wrong. However, that does not mean we should encourage them in their delusions.

rjh01 · 13th July 2009, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by connie sonne

Dann...I have written in this thread and in danish Para-nyt, that I have evidences on what I´m saying, and in your PM that I could show you several things, also without dowsing....but you didn`t ask...only in your answer, where you used a lot of time to tell me, that I`m crazy, judge me to be someone I´m not. I told you that friends, my family and other people KNOWS what I can do, they have seen and heard !!
<snip>

She did not practice? How could her family and other people KNOW what she can do if she has not shown them? I guess the answer is that they know she can do nothing paranormal.

At least she turned up.

I did advise her to practice (post 183). Other people agreed.

steenkh · 13th July 2009, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by rjh01

She did not practice? How could her family and other people KNOW what she can do if she has not shown them? I guess the answer is that they know she can do nothing paranormal.

Not necessarily. She claims she has done other paranormal stuff in front of her family, and others. See the interview with Alison Smith here:

Quote:

Connie: I have tested all my abilities in different way with different witness many times. The first time ever, I told my parents of this, I convinced them like that: I wrote all the letters down on cardboards. Placed them in a horseshoeshape on the table with the backsid up. It was very thick cardboards, so I couldn`t see the letters at all. My dad mixed the cards and placed them on the table in front of me. His name is Viggo, and I spelled his name, by dowsing, without one missing letter ! He was convinced.

Several people have seen me dowsing and my parents and other people have a connection too now. With my mom as a witness, I placed my foot/leg in a pond in winthertime 2007 without being wet at all. I grew tropical gardenplants (orchids) in my garden( in frost and snow) and several people have seen me talking with animals, where they answered me. So yes, all my abilities are tested with witness too. And this is only a small part of it.

Cuddles · 13th July 2009, 04:02 AM

On the one hand, it's a shame (although not really surprising) that she refuses to accept failure. On the other hand, there is something to be said for her making that clear before the test, rather than just coming up with excuses after the fact. She may be wrong, and unable to accept being wrong, but at least she's honest.

Originally Posted by the_anxious_medic

people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not dumb or crazy

Correction - people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not all dumb or crazy. However, many of them actually are dumb or crazy (or both). I agree with you that simply calling them crazies doesn't help matters in the slightest, but that does not mean we should pretend that stupidity or insanity are not often reasonable explanations. I'm not convinced that is the case for Connis Sonne, who appears to be rather more rational and coherent than many who come here, but saying that no believers are crazy or dumb is no more sensible that saying they all are.

Patricio Elicer · 13th July 2009, 11:21 AM

Yeah, she failed miserably. But I think we must thank her for the braveness of taking the challenge in front of a 700+ hundred people (skeptics=bad vibes?).

I really enjoyed the event, she showed so much confidence that for a moment I thought, what if she's the real thing?. The moment Banacheck started to open the envelopes was kind of exciting.

jont37 · 13th July 2009, 11:27 AM

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

ravdin · 13th July 2009, 11:50 AM

I was rooting for Connie, and I suspect a lot of other audience members were as well. It would have been exciting to reconsider my core assumptions (although if she really could do what she claimed, selecting a playing card seems to be an utterly trivial application of her abilities).

Kudos to Connie for following through on the test and conducting herself with such poise even though she failed.

Uncayimmy · 13th July 2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by laca

Well in my definition of graceful there is the thing where you admit that you were wrong. I might be wrong though.

But she's not wrong. As I understand it there are certain entities that work through her. If they choose not to work through her for the test, which she said could happen, how is she wrong if they don't? She's having a rational response to an irrational premise.

VisionFromFeeling · 13th July 2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by jont37

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

Oh no! If Banachek reads this thread do let him know that I think he was absolutely stunning, especially his beautiful hair.

I hope he doesn't supervise my MDC Preliminary Test, he might be a distraction! And I bet he has more hair than you.

GzuzKryzt · 13th July 2009, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by jont37

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

If you "knew" she'd fail then you probably know more about the universe than I do.

Obviously, from what we have learned so far, Connie succeeding would probably have meant a 1:googol^googol chance.

[Lt. Tuvok]However[/Lt. Tuvok], shouldn't it be the duty of a homo sapiens sapiens to keep an open mind - not too open to let our brain fall out but open enough to allow for the theoretical possibility - that one might succeed?

laca · 13th July 2009, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by UncaYimmy

But she's not wrong. As I understand it there are certain entities that work through her. If they choose not to work through her for the test, which she said could happen, how is she wrong if they don't? She's having a rational response to an irrational premise.

The claim was that she could perform the dowsing, not that she could perform the dowsing in case the entities chose to. If the claim were the latter, she'd won the MDC. So, from my point of view she was wrong about her ability as per the claim in question.

laca · 13th July 2009, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by GzuzKryzt

If you "knew" she'd fail then you probably know more about the universe than I do.

Obviously, from what we have learned so far, Connie succeeding would probably have meant a 1:googol^googol chance.

[Lt. Tuvok]However[/Lt. Tuvok], shouldn't it be the duty of a homo sapiens sapiens to keep an open mind - not too open to let our brain fall out but open enough to allow for the theoretical possibility - that one might succeed?

I don't know about you, but if I were to keep an "open mind" about probabilities like that, I would probably never get anything done. So I don't. Not with those odds.

GzuzKryzt · 13th July 2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by laca

I don't know about you, but if I were to keep an "open mind" about probabilities like that, I would probably never get anything done. So I don't. Not with those odds.

Understood. It's like seeing the Natinals [sic] and the Padres win together on the road this year. Albert whiffing on three at bats in a row. Manny winning the Nobel Prize.

Like seeing the Detroit Lions make three consecutive sensible offensive decisions. No NFL player getting into legal trouble this season. Brett Favre retiring with grace.

Like seeing Chris Wallace make a trade that is explainable by reason. Tracy McGrady winning a playoff series. LeBron James accepting others to dunk on him. Michael Jordan confessing his gambling addiction. Charles Barkley turning vegan.

It could happen. Will it happen? Very probably not. But it could. That is the entire point.

laca · 13th July 2009, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by GzuzKryzt

Understood. It's like seeing the Natinals [sic] and the Padres win together on the road this year. Albert whiffing on three at bats in a row. Manny winning the Nobel Prize.

Like seeing the Detroit Lions make three consecutive sensible offensive decisions. No NFL player getting into legal trouble this season. Brett Favre retiring with grace.

Like seeing Chris Wallace make a trade that is explainable by reason. Tracy McGrady winning a playoff series. LeBron James accepting others to dunk on him. Michael Jordan confessing his gambling addiction. Charles Barkley turning vegan.

It could happen. Will it happen? Very probably not. But it could. That is the entire point.

The probabilty of Connie guessing all 3 cards was exactly 1/1000. That is not too low. The probability of her posessing the powers she claims is another story. You said something like "1:googol^googol chance". Now that's low. I do realize you didn't mean it literally. You just meant infinitesimal, most probably. And for me, that is not worth considering.

Heck, I even play the lottery once in a while. I got 1 to 13,000,000 odds. That could happen. It most probably won't, but I keep an open mind about that.

connie sonne · 13th July 2009, 03:02 PM

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

NoZed Avenger · 13th July 2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by connie sonne

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

Ms. Sonne:

I have not followed this and was unaware about your test until reading this thread after it happened.

I was prepared to congratulate you on agreeing to take the test and go through with it in front of a fairly large group of people; that would take a goodly amount of courage, whether you felt you were right or not. However, this message has erased all that good feeling.

I do not know Banachek, although as a magician I have attended lectures from him and have at least said hello to him and his wife at one convention. However, this accusation that he, or the JREF for that matter, has actively engaged in cheating is contemptible. I presume that the event was video taped in some manner. Take the tape and obtain the opinion of someone trained in magic. If you can produce evidence, produce it. If not, I suggest you retract your accusation.

And by "retract your accusation," I am in fact using a euphemism for what I would like to suggest, but cannot because of certain forum rules.

Yours truly,

N/A

jakesteele · 13th July 2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by RemieV

No, the JREF does not follow up on the academic supports.

No, though a description of the demonstration is usually given in the affidavit. The demonstration given to the academic is not supposed to be a test-run for the Challenge test. It is simply a quick demonstration to see if an individual with a background in critical thinking, science, or skepticism will also believe that the applicant has paranormal abilities.

No, we do not follow up with the academic by asking for a statement.

How is the test administered? Is it by JREF guys at their offices where they will put envelopes out and say, "Tell me what's in this envelope, type thing?"

Or do they go to an outside laboratory and hire independent scientists who have no vested interested in the outcome other than getting paid for their time?

jont37 · 13th July 2009, 03:16 PM

I stand corrected. I didn't "know" she'd fail. I too was hoping for something cool like her actually guessing correctly. I remain dubious. I imagine there are some at JREF who indeed knew she'd fail, including her. That was the bit. Worked like a charm.

BartiDdu · 13th July 2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by connie sonne

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

Connie, I suspect by making that comment you have in an instant discarded the respect that many on this forum and in the auditorium yesterday had for you. Personally I am glad you have come out with it. By crying 'cheat' the leopard has shown her spots. I was finding it very hard to have any respect for you anyway since I learned about your claims regarding the disappearance of the Mccann girl. People stood up for you in that you weren't making claims for money but to me that doesn't matter. Either you are malicious or you are seriously deluded - to such an extent that you probably do need psychological help if you can't see it as utterly disrespectful to the families of missing children to mess with their vulnerability.

I watched your test but in a way I am ashamed I did in that I already knew you were a 'wrongun' and maybe should have boycotted it.

GzuzKryzt · 13th July 2009, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by connie sonne

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

Until you can provide solid evidence for your accusation, I suggest you do what NoZed Avenger suggested.

Connie, have you considered simply repeating the test with the exact same protocol and with a host of your liking? You wouldn't even need a prominent person like Banachek. Anyone able to follow the protocol would do.

BartiDdu · 13th July 2009, 03:38 PM

PS Mods, do you think it would be an idea to split this thread at the point of Connie's accusation of cheating (maybe entitled 'I was CHEATED!!!!!') because it takes this into a new episode now to which I think people's attention should be drawn.

Denver · 13th July 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by connie sonne

Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!!

Connie

I'll watch the video again when I see it online, but from what I recall of the live event, you both went through all the spades one by one. You were supposed to find the Ace during the test, which you did not. So he was looking for the Ace as you went. Since you both cut off all the other envelope tops up to the last one, and the Ace had not yet appeared, and since you were down to the last envelope, is it any wonder that before cutting open the last envelope that it was obvious before looking that it was the Ace?

phyz · 13th July 2009, 04:35 PM

Connie, please come down off that ledge. Until you made your baseless accusation, you had the respect of many. I know I watched the MDC preliminary challenge (live, in the room) hoping to see a display of the abilities you promised.

The protocol was solid. Banachek is a man of integrity. And you failed the test.

Regarding your concern that Banacheck announced that the envelope containing the Ace of Spades had been cut open (by you) before he pulled the card from the envelope, that does not match my recollection. He might have announced the card before pulling it from its inner envelope. So please consider this carefully: the flexibility of a card in a tight, flexible envelope makes it possible to visually identify a card--especially the Ace of Spades--while the card is still in the envelope.

You were not cheated. But by making that claim, you throw your reputation in among countless frauds who cannot accept the demonstration of their failure. When we watch the video and see for ourselves that you account of the event is in error, you will likely claim the video record was altered. You will deny the record and recollections of the eyewitnesses.

The clearly observable evidence suggests you have no paranormal/supernatural/psychic abilities. Your unsubstantiated protestations post-failure cast you as just another fraud.

Is that how you hope to be regarded?

phyz · 13th July 2009, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by jont37

Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.

Originally Posted by jont37

I stand corrected. I didn't "know" she'd fail. I too was hoping for something cool like her actually guessing correctly. I remain dubious. I imagine there are some at JREF who indeed knew she'd fail, including her. That was the bit. Worked like a charm.

As an individual of such sparkling integrity and insight, it would appear you have an obligation to boycott this forum and all future TAMs. You must protest the shenanigans that you so easily saw through by removing yourself from this organization.

I will miss you. Others might disagree.

12th July 2009, 02:08 PM	#242
ohms Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 441	I almost felt sorry for her checking all the other envelopes at the end of the failed (from her point of view) test. I wonder if she will give any reasons for her failure to get any right.
ohms Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 441	__________________ Long time lurker

12th July 2009, 09:24 PM	#243
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367	Another controlled test of a paranormal claim is in the books. Nice following through with your claim, Connie. How do you interpret the results?
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367

12th July 2009, 11:55 PM	#244
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Too many negative energies in the room I suppose.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

13th July 2009, 12:29 AM	#246
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	How convenient.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

13th July 2009, 01:21 AM	#248
BayAreaGuy Student Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 42	I hope Connie reads this! I attended the preliminary test today in Las Vegas, and wanted to compliment you on your amazing courage in coming to be tested in front of so many of us who are skeptical of such "powers." You handled yourself with grace and decorum, and are to be commended, in my opinion, for doing so. I was sad to see that you did not pass the test, and felt very bad that the protocol made it necessary for you to cut open nearly 30 envelopes. That must have been tedious and boring, especially since you probably just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. (I do understand why it was necessary, as I'm sure you do). Take care, and I wish you the best of luck in the future! : ) -- Sheldon W. Helms, San Ramon, California.
BayAreaGuy Student Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 42

12th July 2009, 02:03 PM	#241
Denver Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 6,603	I thought the test went very well though, and Connie conducted herself very professionally. Congrats to Connie for taking this test.

13th July 2009, 12:27 AM	#245
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 4,241	She said before she took the test how she would interpret failure - that the mysterious entities responsible for her abilities had decided that the world was not ready for them to be revealed after all.

13th July 2009, 12:38 AM	#247
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,196	Do not expect to see a response from her in this thread. She has not visited the forum since about 21 June 2009

13th July 2009, 01:25 AM	#249
BayAreaGuy Student Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 42	I'd like to make a general comment about the lack of decorum in this thread. I'm surprised by the vitriol being shown in here. As I said in my earlier post, I attended the "Million Dollar Challenge" preliminary testing today with Ms. Sonne, and from what I saw, she really does not deserve the treatment some of you are dishing out. She handled herself very professionally, and was very graceful after failing the test. In my opinion, each of you should take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're showing that level of maturity and/or decorum in your positions as representatives of the Skeptic community. If the answer is no, you should begin to change your behavior, even when it is relatively anonymous and you're hiding behind a computer screen.
BayAreaGuy Student Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 42

13th July 2009, 01:29 AM	#250
steenkh Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,482	It is quite convenient, but she is so convinced of her abilities that she is not merely deluded, but she has probably serious psychological problems. I always found it strange how she headed directly for the disaster, refusing to make even the simplest self-test of something she admitted she had never tried before. It is as if she wanted to fail.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

13th July 2009, 01:34 AM	#251
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Originally Posted by BayAreaGuy I'd like to make a general comment about the lack of decorum in this thread. I'm surprised by the vitriol being shown in here. As I said in my earlier post, I attended the "Million Dollar Challenge" preliminary testing today with Ms. Sonne, and from what I saw, she really does not deserve the treatment some of you are dishing out. She handled herself very professionally, and was very graceful after failing the test. Yes, she did not start accusing the protocol and/or the negative energies from the crowd at site, I'll give her that. However, I've read here that she already knew what to say in event of failure: Quote: She said before she took the test how she would interpret failure - that the mysterious entities responsible for her abilities had decided that the world was not ready for them to be revealed after all. Now that is not graceful. Nor prefessional. Whatever that means in case of a self-proclaimed psychic. What that shows is an enormous amount of self-delusion. We should not encourage anyone who is delusional.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

13th July 2009, 01:37 AM	#252
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Originally Posted by steenkh It is quite convenient, but she is so convinced of her abilities that she is not merely deluded, but she has probably serious psychological problems. I always found it strange how she headed directly for the disaster, refusing to make even the simplest self-test of something she admitted she had never tried before. It is as if she wanted to fail. She couldn't fail in her own eyes. In case of apparent failure she had the explanation already: mystical entities deciding the world is not ready for her powers. In case she did the dowsing for the very first time at the live MDC, that would seem also an out for her.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

13th July 2009, 01:47 AM	#253
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 4,241	From earlier in the thread, in response to questions as to how she would react if she failed the test: Originally Posted by connie sonne Jackalgirl and Yairhol, where it all comes from, there`s a lot of humor. If it will happen, that I fail the test..there`s a reason. Then I will make the new step afterwards, not by testing again, but something else..Yeah, no matter what is going to happen, I will never make a doubt about my abilities. In a year now, my life and the things I`m doing is like a puzzle, but ALWAYS I do the new step to go on...and I already have many evidences and more will come,. Originally Posted by connie sonne And for Dann, God dosn`t excist...there is something else. It`s not about belief or faith, it`s about knowing, Our planet is ready for the truth only now, therefore other people couldn`t come through the challenge...they were not allowed to. Originally Posted by Pixel42 She has already made clear what her explanation for failure will be (here and here). She will conclude that the mysterious powers with whom she is in contact have decided that the world is still not ready for the paranormal to be revealed. Originally Posted by connie sonne Erlando, I allready have answered that like Pixel42 told you. That must be enough .

13th July 2009, 01:55 AM	#254
steenkh Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,482	Originally Posted by laca Now that is not graceful. Nor prefessional. Whatever that means in case of a self-proclaimed psychic. Why would that not be graceful? She is not (yet) claiming that she has been treated wrongly, or that the MDC as a scam, which would be disgraceful in my eyes. As for professionalism, I have no idea what profession you are talking about. What would a professional dowser or psychic do? Quote: What that shows is an enormous amount of self-delusion. We should not encourage anyone who is delusional. That could be true. But the value of the MDC is not the effect it has on the psychics and other who line up for the test, but for the rest of the world that believes that such powers exist.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

13th July 2009, 01:55 AM	#255
the_anxious_medic New Blood Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1	Serious psychological problems? really? Originally Posted by steenkh It is quite convenient, but she is so convinced of her abilities that she is not merely deluded, but she has probably serious psychological problems. I always found it strange how she headed directly for the disaster, refusing to make even the simplest self-test of something she admitted she had never tried before. It is as if she wanted to fail. If there is one thing that was repeated not only at TAM this year but by other luminaries suchas Carl Sagan and Michael Shermer - people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not dumb or crazy they just are making some mistakes in how they perceive the natural world. In other worlds, they are using heuristics that make them come to false conclusions - they are creatures that are a result of evolution -just like the rest of us. Calling them crazy does nothing to advance the conversation, it only serves to make the claiment feel more self-important and superior.
the_anxious_medic New Blood Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1

13th July 2009, 02:04 AM	#256
steenkh Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,482	[quote=the_anxious_medic;4898425]If there is one thing that was repeated not only at TAM this year but by other luminaries suchas Carl Sagan and Michael Shermer - people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not dumb or crazy they just are making some mistakes in how they perceive the natural world. In other worlds, they are using heuristics that make them come to false conclusions - they are creatures that are a result of evolution -just like the rest of us. Quote: Calling them crazy does nothing to advance the conversation, it only serves to make the claiment feel more self-important and superior. In this case we have a person who believes she is given special powers by supernatural aliens with whom she regularly communicates. While not being a psychiatrist, I believe there is a possible diagnosis for people who hear voices and base their life on them.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

13th July 2009, 02:05 AM	#257
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Originally Posted by steenkh Why would that not be graceful? She is not (yet) claiming that she has been treated wrongly, or that the MDC as a scam, which would be disgraceful in my eyes. Well in my definition of graceful there is the thing where you admit that you were wrong. I might be wrong though. Originally Posted by steenkh As for professionalism, I have no idea what profession you are talking about. What would a professional dowser or psychic do? That was my point exactly. Originally Posted by steenkh That could be true. But the value of the MDC is not the effect it has on the psychics and other who line up for the test, but for the rest of the world that believes that such powers exist. Yes, I agree that the point is not to make the contestants realize they're wrong. However, that does not mean we should encourage them in their delusions.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Last edited by laca; 13th July 2009 at 02:06 AM.

13th July 2009, 02:17 AM	#258
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,196	Originally Posted by connie sonne Dann...I have written in this thread and in danish Para-nyt, that I have evidences on what I´m saying, and in your PM that I could show you several things, also without dowsing....but you didn`t ask...only in your answer, where you used a lot of time to tell me, that I`m crazy, judge me to be someone I´m not. I told you that friends, my family and other people KNOWS what I can do, they have seen and heard !! <snip> She did not practice? How could her family and other people KNOW what she can do if she has not shown them? I guess the answer is that they know she can do nothing paranormal. At least she turned up. I did advise her to practice (post 183). Other people agreed.

13th July 2009, 02:28 AM	#259
steenkh Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,482	Originally Posted by rjh01 She did not practice? How could her family and other people KNOW what she can do if she has not shown them? I guess the answer is that they know she can do nothing paranormal. Not necessarily. She claims she has done other paranormal stuff in front of her family, and others. See the interview with Alison Smith here: Quote: Connie: I have tested all my abilities in different way with different witness many times. The first time ever, I told my parents of this, I convinced them like that: I wrote all the letters down on cardboards. Placed them in a horseshoeshape on the table with the backsid up. It was very thick cardboards, so I couldn`t see the letters at all. My dad mixed the cards and placed them on the table in front of me. His name is Viggo, and I spelled his name, by dowsing, without one missing letter ! He was convinced. Several people have seen me dowsing and my parents and other people have a connection too now. With my mom as a witness, I placed my foot/leg in a pond in winthertime 2007 without being wet at all. I grew tropical gardenplants (orchids) in my garden( in frost and snow) and several people have seen me talking with animals, where they answered me. So yes, all my abilities are tested with witness too. And this is only a small part of it.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

13th July 2009, 04:02 AM	#260
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,591	On the one hand, it's a shame (although not really surprising) that she refuses to accept failure. On the other hand, there is something to be said for her making that clear before the test, rather than just coming up with excuses after the fact. She may be wrong, and unable to accept being wrong, but at least she's honest. Originally Posted by the_anxious_medic people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not dumb or crazy Correction - people who believe that they have supernatural powers are not all dumb or crazy. However, many of them actually are dumb or crazy (or both). I agree with you that simply calling them crazies doesn't help matters in the slightest, but that does not mean we should pretend that stupidity or insanity are not often reasonable explanations. I'm not convinced that is the case for Connis Sonne, who appears to be rather more rational and coherent than many who come here, but saying that no believers are crazy or dumb is no more sensible that saying they all are.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

13th July 2009, 11:21 AM	#261
Patricio Elicer Obsessed with Reality Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 4,350	Yeah, she failed miserably. But I think we must thank her for the braveness of taking the challenge in front of a 700+ hundred people (skeptics=bad vibes?). I really enjoyed the event, she showed so much confidence that for a moment I thought, what if she's the real thing?. The moment Banacheck started to open the envelopes was kind of exciting.
	__________________ "Well, I've never discussed it before on the forum, but, Patricio, you're the real reason I didn't show up at TAM I. Once I found out you were going, I cancelled all my plans, knowing that you would likely hunt me down and ask me questions about English language usage. I finally decided that I wouldn't be able to handle the pressure of your questions ..." - Mr. Skinny on 5th April 2007.

13th July 2009, 11:27 AM	#262
jont37 New Blood Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3	Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were.
jont37 New Blood Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3

13th July 2009, 11:50 AM	#263
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,568	I was rooting for Connie, and I suspect a lot of other audience members were as well. It would have been exciting to reconsider my core assumptions (although if she really could do what she claimed, selecting a playing card seems to be an utterly trivial application of her abilities). Kudos to Connie for following through on the test and conducting herself with such poise even though she failed.
	__________________ If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak. -Jayne Cobb Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

13th July 2009, 12:23 PM	#264
Uncayimmy Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 7,485	Originally Posted by laca Well in my definition of graceful there is the thing where you admit that you were wrong. I might be wrong though. But she's not wrong. As I understand it there are certain entities that work through her. If they choose not to work through her for the test, which she said could happen, how is she wrong if they don't? She's having a rational response to an irrational premise.
Uncayimmy Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 7,485

13th July 2009, 01:34 PM	#265
VisionFromFeeling Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina, United States Posts: 1,363	Originally Posted by jont37 Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were. Oh no! If Banachek reads this thread do let him know that I think he was absolutely stunning, especially his beautiful hair. I hope he doesn't supervise my MDC Preliminary Test, he might be a distraction! And I bet he has more hair than you.

13th July 2009, 01:48 PM	#266
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367	Originally Posted by jont37 Anyone but me wonder if the whole challenge at TAM thing was a put on to generate tix sales, etc. Could the whole thing be a hoax? I'm skeptical. I mean c'mon. Twirling a pendant over some cards and the deep concentration and guessing. The bad 80's hair of Banacek, the cards and envelopes etc.... that was lame from the minute Randi's sheeple (myself included) began pouring into the auditorium. We all knew she'd fail yet there we were. If you "knew" she'd fail then you probably know more about the universe than I do. Obviously, from what we have learned so far, Connie succeeding would probably have meant a 1:googol^googol chance. [Lt. Tuvok]However[/Lt. Tuvok], shouldn't it be the duty of a homo sapiens sapiens to keep an open mind - not too open to let our brain fall out but open enough to allow for the theoretical possibility - that one might succeed?
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367

13th July 2009, 02:05 PM	#267
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Originally Posted by UncaYimmy But she's not wrong. As I understand it there are certain entities that work through her. If they choose not to work through her for the test, which she said could happen, how is she wrong if they don't? She's having a rational response to an irrational premise. The claim was that she could perform the dowsing, not that she could perform the dowsing in case the entities chose to. If the claim were the latter, she'd won the MDC. So, from my point of view she was wrong about her ability as per the claim in question.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

13th July 2009, 02:09 PM	#268
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Originally Posted by GzuzKryzt If you "knew" she'd fail then you probably know more about the universe than I do. Obviously, from what we have learned so far, Connie succeeding would probably have meant a 1:googol^googol chance. [Lt. Tuvok]However[/Lt. Tuvok], shouldn't it be the duty of a homo sapiens sapiens to keep an open mind - not too open to let our brain fall out but open enough to allow for the theoretical possibility - that one might succeed? I don't know about you, but if I were to keep an "open mind" about probabilities like that, I would probably never get anything done. So I don't. Not with those odds.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

13th July 2009, 02:28 PM	#269
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367	Originally Posted by laca I don't know about you, but if I were to keep an "open mind" about probabilities like that, I would probably never get anything done. So I don't. Not with those odds. Understood. It's like seeing the Natinals [sic] and the Padres win together on the road this year. Albert whiffing on three at bats in a row. Manny winning the Nobel Prize. Like seeing the Detroit Lions make three consecutive sensible offensive decisions. No NFL player getting into legal trouble this season. Brett Favre retiring with grace. Like seeing Chris Wallace make a trade that is explainable by reason. Tracy McGrady winning a playoff series. LeBron James accepting others to dunk on him. Michael Jordan confessing his gambling addiction. Charles Barkley turning vegan. It could happen. Will it happen? Very probably not. But it could. That is the entire point.
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367

13th July 2009, 02:39 PM	#270
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161	Originally Posted by GzuzKryzt Understood. It's like seeing the Natinals [sic] and the Padres win together on the road this year. Albert whiffing on three at bats in a row. Manny winning the Nobel Prize. Like seeing the Detroit Lions make three consecutive sensible offensive decisions. No NFL player getting into legal trouble this season. Brett Favre retiring with grace. Like seeing Chris Wallace make a trade that is explainable by reason. Tracy McGrady winning a playoff series. LeBron James accepting others to dunk on him. Michael Jordan confessing his gambling addiction. Charles Barkley turning vegan. It could happen. Will it happen? Very probably not. But it could. That is the entire point. The probabilty of Connie guessing all 3 cards was exactly 1/1000. That is not too low. The probability of her posessing the powers she claims is another story. You said something like "1:googol^googol chance". Now that's low. I do realize you didn't mean it literally. You just meant infinitesimal, most probably. And for me, that is not worth considering. Heck, I even play the lottery once in a while. I got 1 to 13,000,000 odds. That could happen. It most probably won't, but I keep an open mind about that.
laca Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3,161

13th July 2009, 03:02 PM	#271
connie sonne Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 169	Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!! Connie
connie sonne Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 169

13th July 2009, 03:11 PM	#272
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 11,313	Originally Posted by connie sonne Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!! Connie Ms. Sonne: I have not followed this and was unaware about your test until reading this thread after it happened. I was prepared to congratulate you on agreeing to take the test and go through with it in front of a fairly large group of people; that would take a goodly amount of courage, whether you felt you were right or not. However, this message has erased all that good feeling. I do not know Banachek, although as a magician I have attended lectures from him and have at least said hello to him and his wife at one convention. However, this accusation that he, or the JREF for that matter, has actively engaged in cheating is contemptible. I presume that the event was video taped in some manner. Take the tape and obtain the opinion of someone trained in magic. If you can produce evidence, produce it. If not, I suggest you retract your accusation. And by "retract your accusation," I am in fact using a euphemism for what I would like to suggest, but cannot because of certain forum rules. Yours truly, N/A
	__________________ [This Space Available. PM for Rates.]

13th July 2009, 03:14 PM	#273
jakesteele Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,223	Originally Posted by RemieV No, the JREF does not follow up on the academic supports. No, though a description of the demonstration is usually given in the affidavit. The demonstration given to the academic is not supposed to be a test-run for the Challenge test. It is simply a quick demonstration to see if an individual with a background in critical thinking, science, or skepticism will also believe that the applicant has paranormal abilities. No, we do not follow up with the academic by asking for a statement. How is the test administered? Is it by JREF guys at their offices where they will put envelopes out and say, "Tell me what's in this envelope, type thing?" Or do they go to an outside laboratory and hire independent scientists who have no vested interested in the outcome other than getting paid for their time?
	__________________ Occam’s Beard – The simplest solution isn’t always the best

13th July 2009, 03:16 PM	#274
jont37 New Blood Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3	I stand corrected. I didn't "know" she'd fail. I too was hoping for something cool like her actually guessing correctly. I remain dubious. I imagine there are some at JREF who indeed knew she'd fail, including her. That was the bit. Worked like a charm.
jont37 New Blood Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3

13th July 2009, 03:23 PM	#275
BartiDdu Student Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 46	Originally Posted by connie sonne Hi out there...now I know why Banacheck was "the card handler". I have been cheated. I did find the right cards. And there is one more thing. At the stage, Banacheck said to me BEFORE he even looked in the envelope I had cut...and here is spade ace, the one you looked for!!!! I first hit me now about that ....but maybe you can see it yourself if someone get the video. I don`t care about the money, that wasn`t the reason why I came. So no matter what you think out there......I was CHEATED!!!!! Connie Connie, I suspect by making that comment you have in an instant discarded the respect that many on this forum and in the auditorium yesterday had for you. Personally I am glad you have come out with it. By crying 'cheat' the leopard has shown her spots. I was finding it very hard to have any respect for you anyway since I learned about your claims regarding the disappearance of the Mccann girl. People stood up for you in that you weren't making claims for money but to me that doesn't matter. Either you are malicious or you are seriously deluded - to such an extent that you probably do need psychological help if you can't see it as utterly disrespectful to the families of missing children to mess with their vulnerability. I watched your test but in a way I am ashamed I did in that I already knew you were a 'wrongun' and maybe should have boycotted it.
BartiDdu Student Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 46