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Tags bigfoot , Bob Gimlin , Patterson-Gimlin film , Roger Patterson

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Old 28th January 2009, 11:56 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
I know it doesn't tell us much, regarding whether or not Patty is a man-in-a-suit....but it does help give some perspective on Patty's overall size, compared to Jim's.
And that was the main purpose of Jim being filmed walking in Patty's steps.
But who cares how Jim compares to Patty in overall size? Height-wise, I can understand why, but what does a thin guy being able to semi-hide behind a tree have to do with a guy in a bulky bigfoot suit being unable to do the same thing?
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Old 29th January 2009, 04:00 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
I know it doesn't tell us much, regarding whether or not Patty is a man-in-a-suit....but it does help give some perspective on Patty's overall size, compared to Jim's.
Yes, and based on those pictures, Jim is clearly taller .
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Old 29th January 2009, 06:48 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Patty's arms are incredibly longer than short armed bob
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Old 29th January 2009, 06:50 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Yes, and based on those pictures, Jim is clearly taller .
Oh, i see, the photo i showed doesnt seem to give height, but when a photo of the skeptics favor is presented, it is accepted?

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...comparison.jpg

Take another look.
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:54 AM   #365
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Jack in the Box at MABRC.


Originally Posted by Jack D Davis
Patty is much shorter than McLaren. Go to my web site to see how tall I believe Patty is.

Quote:
Studying these two photo's, I noticed that they are not the same size.....note the two small trees bracketing the large tree. Either the McLaren photographer is further away than Patterson or they were not sized correctly. In my first overlay, PGF on top of McLaren photo, the two small trees do not match in each photo. Resizing the PGF to match up the trees in overlay2 they are now matched closely in size. Now notice in overlay3, the difference in size of each.



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Old 29th January 2009, 08:05 AM   #366
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I think Jack has been fooled at least some by the horizontal compression in the McLarin demo film.

Or, Jack could be right, and there is no horizontal compression involved. But the film looks horizontally compressed to me, and I always thought the effect was to hide the fact that McLarin doesn't look quite that much skinnier than Patty.

Suppose you just widen the McLarin demo to make the trees line up? Then how wide would McLarin appear? Does that make McLarin look way off from reality?
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:05 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Patty's arms are incredibly longer than short armed bob
That eye must be done broke. Just saying it doesn't make it true.
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:08 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I think Jack has been fooled at least some by the horizontal compression in the McLarin demo film.

Or, Jack could be right, and there is no horizontal compression involved. But the film looks horizontally compressed to me, and I always thought the effect was to hide the fact that McLarin doesn't look quite that much skinnier than Patty.

Suppose you just widen the McLarin demo to make the trees line up? Then how wide would McLarin appear? Does that make McLarin look way off from reality?

You didn't go to the MABRC link, did you?


Originally Posted by Jack
Vertical aspect was skewed as I suspected. Here is a corrected version....several points lined up in each photo and PGF rotated to correct camera tilt.
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:10 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
IIRC, Patterson and Gimlin went to Bluff Creek because some tracks had been reported there. Somehow, those tracks at Bluff Creek were "all but destroyed" and "just globs in the mud" after a month.

Incidentally, can it be shown how long Roger and BobG were in the area? It was either 3 weeks, or a little over a week, depending on which accounts you read.
-------------------------------------

Out-take from Patterson's 1968 newsletter
, regarding how long they were in the area and the much debated
statement that they "tracked Patty 3 miles..." ...fwiw....

..
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:15 AM   #370
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Yes, that's one claim, bobbie. Roger also stated that the tracks they went to see had been reported a month earlier, and the report was around Labor Day, and that would put them in the area in early October. Or about 3 weeks total...
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:16 AM   #371
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Quote:
You didn't go to the MABRC link, did you?
Certainly not! What do you take me for?
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:18 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
In order to save myself 5 bucks......here he is...

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...WheresJim4.jpg


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...WheresJim5.jpg


And here's Patty, behind the same tree...


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...attyTree2A.jpg



Jim's slim build and posture allowed him to disappear behind that tree, but that's not the case with Patty.

Which could also simply means that the camera angle is slightly different, patty is more in the foreground, mclaurin is slim patty's disguised guy more wide, etc...etc...etc...
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:25 AM   #373
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Let's not forget that it was none other than Jim McLarin who called Ivan Sanderson that very night, before anyone had seen the film, to tell Sanderson that Patterson had filmed bigfoot, and to ask Sanderson for help to "handle matters".
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:56 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yes, that's one claim, bobbie. Roger also stated that the tracks they went to see had been reported a month earlier, and the report was around Labor Day, and that would put them in the area in early October. Or about 3 weeks total...
----------------------------
Yes, I had heard that said before but I don't have a citation
for the remark.....do you have it by chance??
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:58 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Let's not forget that it was none other than Jim McLarin who called Ivan Sanderson that very night, before anyone had seen the film, to tell Sanderson that Patterson had filmed bigfoot, and to ask Sanderson for help to "handle matters".
--------------

Good grief, I don't have a citation for that either...help!!
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:58 AM   #376
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Bobbie, what do you think Gimin and Patterson did with Patty's carcass after they blasted her?
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:06 AM   #377
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William Parcher wrote:
Quote:
"Jack in the box at MABRC")

Thanks for linking to the thread over on the Mid-America Board, William.

Jack has posted another image, with "crayon" lines drawn all over it.....for anyone who's interested.
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:10 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by JcR View Post
I find it interesting... Esteban Sarmiento talks of how dermal ridges
and scars etc can be faked. Just skip Chilcutt and go to 2:03 in the video.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M15H9WGzWbw

And if you're really bored watch this. Seven parts,,, if you can take the torture.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GHK2O6...eature=related
PART 3 ????

Will this monstrosity never end ?
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:12 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
Bobbie, what do you think Gimin and Patterson did with Patty's carcass after they blasted her?
------------------------
I surely do NOT believe they "tracked Patty 3 miles,"
(not from a medical point of view) that is nonsense, she had already stumbled once and falter another time before the film runs out....but there is an interesting photo showing tractor treadmarks on that sandbar, a dugout hole with a birm around it that might lend itself to your question. Al Hodgson also is quoted as saying the owner of that front loader, or whatever it's called, was furious with them over the use of it. I'd rather upload those photos and let you make that determination.... but it will have to wait until later today.
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:19 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by SweatyYeti View Post
Thanks for linking to the thread over on the Mid-America Board, William.

Jack has posted another image, with "crayon" lines drawn all over it.....for anyone who's interested.
Sweaty, I'm having a hard time understanding your Bigfoot enthusiasm. Why waste time doodling and noodling with the PGF. On its own it will never be accepted as reliable evidence. Who cares anyway? You're a member of the MABRC. Why don't you hook up with darkwing and driveroperator and get them to show you Skilleyville and some real Bigfoots?
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:21 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
------------------------
I surely do NOT believe they "tracked Patty 3 miles,"
(not from a medical point of view) that is nonsense, she had already stumbled once and falter another time before the film runs out....but there is an interesting photo showing tractor treadmarks on that sandbar, a dugout hole with a birm around it that might lend itself to your question. Al Hodgson also is quoted as saying the owner of that front loader, or whatever it's called, was furious with them over the use of it. I'd rather upload those photos and let you make that determination.... but it will have to wait until later today.
So you think they buried her. Why didn't they bring her carcass in? And even if they decided then to bury her, why didn't they come back and dig her up after the footage wasn't being accepted as proof?
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:22 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
------------------------
I surely do NOT believe they "tracked Patty 3 miles,"
(not from a medical point of view) that is nonsense, she had already stumbled once and falter another time before the film runs out....but there is an interesting photo showing tractor treadmarks on that sandbar, a dugout hole with a birm around it that might lend itself to your question. Al Hodgson also is quoted as saying the owner of that front loader, or whatever it's called, was furious with them over the use of it. I'd rather upload those photos and let you make that determination.... but it will have to wait until later today.
For crying out loud, isn't it OBVIOUS what they did with her?!
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:26 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by bobbieshort View Post
------------------------
I surely do NOT believe they "tracked Patty 3 miles,"
(not from a medical point of view) that is nonsense, she had already stumbled once and falter another time before the film runs out....but there is an interesting photo showing tractor treadmarks on that sandbar, a dugout hole with a birm around it that might lend itself to your question. Al Hodgson also is quoted as saying the owner of that front loader, or whatever it's called, was furious with them over the use of it. I'd rather upload those photos and let you make that determination.... but it will have to wait until later today.
So - what was the name of the person who owned the machine that was used?
Since the owner was supposed to be unhappy with the way the machine was used - why has he not come forward?

If one is thinking bribe $$$ to keep him quiet - where did it come from? When was it paid? By whom?
Bribes of the type "We will pay you when we hopefully get some $$$" are only applicable to movies.
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:44 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
William Jim is a little stretched/elongated and Patty is a little squashed (not squatched BTW lol). The only way to compare height Jim vs Patty is by the better positioned with backround/objects that have already been presented.
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Old 29th January 2009, 10:00 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Oh, i see, the photo i showed doesnt seem to give height, but when a photo of the skeptics favor is presented, it is accepted?

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...comparison.jpg

Take another look.
Don't loose sight of the fact that evidence is getting "cooked" on both sides of the issue. Yes the arms are long. And IMNSHO all of the padding in the world is not going to disguise a locked kneed human gait.
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Old 29th January 2009, 10:02 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Crowlogic View Post
William Jim is a little stretched/elongated and Patty is a little squashed (not squatched BTW lol). The only way to compare height Jim vs Patty is by the better positioned with backround/objects that have already been presented.

You talk as if Jack did not adjust (correct) the image of Jim. He did. Now you are proposing that the image of Patty also needs adjustment because she is "squashed"?

Are you paying attention?
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Old 29th January 2009, 10:22 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
You talk as if Jack did not adjust (correct) the image of Jim. He did. Now you are proposing that the image of Patty also needs adjustment because she is "squashed"?

Are you paying attention?
I'm saying neither image is accurate.
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Old 29th January 2009, 01:52 PM   #388
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For a valid photo comparison we need 3 things:

1) Same camera position
2) Same distance from the camera
3) Same aspect ratio

We have no control over 1 & 2, but 3 can be calibrated using a digital image of a full frame from the PGF. We know the aspect ratio of the film so we can adjust a full frame digital image accordingly. Then we can calibrate frames from the LMS and McClarin by registering them to the full frame image.

It turns out that the LMS needed to be stretched vertically 6% (files captured from the DVD were distorted vertically another 12%) and McClarin needed to be stretched horizontally 3%. McClarin also had to be rotated 3 degrees to register with the PGF. In the end what you get are images with the correct aspect ratio (maybe the only ones).

After both frames were successfully registered it seems that the camera positions were VERY close since the background and foreground objects could be matched up. So if the camera positions were in sync then the only unknown is whether they followed the exact same path. If they did then the following would be a valid comparison. (click to animate?)

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Old 29th January 2009, 02:58 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
For a valid photo comparison we need 3 things:

1) Same camera position
2) Same distance from the camera
3) Same aspect ratio

We have no control over 1 & 2, but 3 can be calibrated using a digital image of a full frame from the PGF. We know the aspect ratio of the film so we can adjust a full frame digital image accordingly. Then we can calibrate frames from the LMS and McClarin by registering them to the full frame image.

It turns out that the LMS needed to be stretched vertically 6% (files captured from the DVD were distorted vertically another 12%) and McClarin needed to be stretched horizontally 3%. McClarin also had to be rotated 3 degrees to register with the PGF. In the end what you get are images with the correct aspect ratio (maybe the only ones).

After both frames were successfully registered it seems that the camera positions were VERY close since the background and foreground objects could be matched up. So if the camera positions were in sync then the only unknown is whether they followed the exact same path. If they did then the following would be a valid comparison. (click to animate?)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...21dd7ac66f.gif
WP cherry picked again. When crow and i posted a pic showing patty's towering size over mclarin, its dismissed as "angles". Yet when wp shows an ambigious pic he claims shows that jm is taller. What if that pic is an angle, and patty is much taller?
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Old 29th January 2009, 03:00 PM   #390
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Kitz, are you blind? How in the hell can you fit bob h's skeleton on patty? I realize that you dismissed someones attempt to but a squatch skeleton on patty, yet your being hypocritical
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Old 29th January 2009, 05:00 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
For a valid photo comparison we need 3 things:

1) Same camera position
2) Same distance from the camera
3) Same aspect ratio

We have no control over 1 & 2, but 3 can be calibrated using a digital image of a full frame from the PGF. We know the aspect ratio of the film so we can adjust a full frame digital image accordingly. Then we can calibrate frames from the LMS and McClarin by registering them to the full frame image.

It turns out that the LMS needed to be stretched vertically 6% (files captured from the DVD were distorted vertically another 12%) and McClarin needed to be stretched horizontally 3%. McClarin also had to be rotated 3 degrees to register with the PGF. In the end what you get are images with the correct aspect ratio (maybe the only ones).

After both frames were successfully registered it seems that the camera positions were VERY close since the background and foreground objects could be matched up. So if the camera positions were in sync then the only unknown is whether they followed the exact same path. If they did then the following would be a valid comparison. (click to animate?)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...21dd7ac66f.gif
Dude, Phlueeze
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Old 29th January 2009, 05:21 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE View Post
Dude, Phlueeze
I know you are going to pretend to know what you are talking about so I am REALLY interested for you to point out the phuleeze points. This is pretty basic stuff so this should demonstrate your lack of comprehension. But prepare to be wrong unless you think that I am pushing some sort of an agenda.
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Old 29th January 2009, 05:54 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
I know you are going to pretend to know what you are talking about so I am REALLY interested for you to point out the phuleeze points. This is pretty basic stuff so this should demonstrate your lack of comprehension. But prepare to be wrong unless you think that I am pushing some sort of an agenda.
Listen GF, you can cut the crap here. This isnt the BFF and you dont have moderators running coverfire for you to protect you and your BS.

You are right, this is pretty basic but like your "expertise" in photogrammetery- you are wrong once again.

I know you are pushing your BS agenda just like you did there- the only difference here is that I can unload on you and show all how wrong you are without mods threatening me for being "caustic" and for "chronic disobedience" ( whatever those are since my inquiries went unanswered) You dont have that cover here.

You want to get in the Octagon with your Master- pack a lunch and lock the door behind you. I'll handle the rest.
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:17 PM   #394
LTC8K6
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bobbie, the first part is from the 67 and 92 interview transcripts, and from Murphy's PGF history.

The second part about McLarin is from Pursuit 1968.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:26 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE View Post
Listen GF, you can cut the crap here. This isnt the BFF and you dont have moderators running coverfire for you to protect you and your BS.

You are right, this is pretty basic but like your "expertise" in photogrammetery- you are wrong once again.

I know you are pushing your BS agenda just like you did there- the only difference here is that I can unload on you and show all how wrong you are without mods threatening me for being "caustic" and for "chronic disobedience" ( whatever those are since my inquiries went unanswered) You dont have that cover here.

You want to get in the Octagon with your Master- pack a lunch and lock the door behind you. I'll handle the rest.
Waiting....Longblabber
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:46 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by makaya325 View Post
Kitz, are you blind? How in the hell can you fit bob h's skeleton on patty?
Whatever are you talking about? Go have a look at mangler's images in my post #359.

I realize that you dismissed someones attempt to but a squatch skeleton on patty, yet your being hypocritical[/quote]

Whatever are you talking about? Care to point that out?
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2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:54 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
After both frames were successfully registered it seems that the camera positions were VERY close since the background and foreground objects could be matched up.
GF, I thought that was quite interesting. It is amazing how close those images are. So Patty seems to be quite a bit shorter than Jim.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:58 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE View Post
Listen GF, you can cut the crap here. This isnt the BFF and you dont have moderators running coverfire for you to protect you and your BS.

You are right, this is pretty basic but like your "expertise" in photogrammetery- you are wrong once again.

I know you are pushing your BS agenda just like you did there- the only difference here is that I can unload on you and show all how wrong you are without mods threatening me for being "caustic" and for "chronic disobedience" ( whatever those are since my inquiries went unanswered) You dont have that cover here.

You want to get in the Octagon with your Master- pack a lunch and lock the door behind you. I'll handle the rest.
I didn't see anything in Gigantofootecus' post that looked quite wrong. That's JMO. I would like to see how it's wrong if that's the case.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:13 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
bobbie, the first part is from the 67 and 92 interview transcripts, and from Murphy's PGF history.

The second part about McLarin is from Pursuit 1968.
-----------------------------
Except for Murphy's stuff, most of that is uploaded on Bigfootencounters dot com....and no matter how many times I reread that stuff, it's amazing how some points stand out and others dont. Thanks for that, I appreciate the time you took to remind me....I went back and reread those this evening plus listened to some of the audio tapes on YouTube again where BG is the guest speaker. The discrepancies are numerous....and every time I take time to compare, I come away with this increasing sense that the whole story was never told to general research. The film tells a different story, doesn't it?
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:19 PM   #400
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Hi, Bobbie. Just in case you might have missed it, I was curious about the questions in post #381.
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Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer.

2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum.

I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6
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