Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 3 - Page 63

William Parcher · 1st October 2009, 05:36 PM

I have said that Titmus may have been the most prolific Bigfoot hoaxer of the Classic Era. But I had not yet read this humdinger...

Peter Byrne drops a bomb on Bob Titmus

Quote:

...to ask him as many questions as we could about his knowledge of Pacific Northwest wildlife, local conditions, Bigfoot lore and history. We did this because he has been described to us an expert woodsman and a veteran in forest lore (and indeed, was being employed as such by Tom Slick) and we were very keen to gauge the extent of his knowledge and, if possible, of course, apply it to our own work. To this end we managed to detain him long enough to get him to reluctantly agree to a short walk with us down a dusty logging road near our camp, one on which, within ten minutes of walking, we found a set of Black Bear paw prints. The prints, about six inches in length, were old, faded and were typical bear, with the short forefoot print and the elongated "banana shaped" rear imprint. Titmus, however, looked at the prints for two or three minutes and then promptly declared them to have been made by a young Bigfoot...

...Titmus photographed and measured them and later we heard that he had sent the photographs to Tom and described them as genuine prints of a young Bigfoot.

...What Titmus said he had discovered, his secret project from which we were all excluded, was something extraordinary. It was, simply a place in the mountains where a Bigfoot-and maybe more than one-came to defecate on what appeared to be a regular schedule. In other words, a permanent Bigfoot toilet. As Tom talked, I could see disbelief on the faces of the others. Nevertheless, we listened politely as he went on. The plan, he told us, had been for Titmus to show him the place in question, after which an operation would be designed, one that would include a 24/7 watch on the area and possibly the use of planes and helicopters and additional support teams, including scientists, as needed. We would all be part of it and the object of the plan would be, at the very least, to document any BFs coming or going to the site, via still and motion-picture photography. There could be a possibility, Tom thought, of making face-to-face contact with one and even, farfetched though it might sound, the exciting prospect of communication....

...He said that Titmus was wide-eyed with what looked like fear and as the footsteps got closer and closer, he had to admit that he was not far off panic himself. Then, suddenly, out of the Manzanita brush to their left, a large brown object walked into view. It was not, however, as Tom expected, a Bigfoot, but a medium-sized, brown-colored pony on the back of which sat a medium- sized old man, a Native American, dressed in a leather jacket and a battered felt hat and with a thick black ponytail hanging down his back. The old man rode up to the little tree, got off his mount, removed two small baskets from the back of the pony, tied the pony to the tree and then turned around to stare directly at the two men lying prone at the edge of the clearing....

...Tom told us, the pony made a generous contribution... We never saw Titmus again. We heard that he went straight back to Redding, packed up and then drove his battered old car all the way to Bella Coola, in northern British Columbia, where he took up residence, and employment, as a taxi driver. We did hear, later, that he tried once more to develop an association with Tom, dubiously claiming another sighting somewhere, this time, he said, of two of the creatures. But Tom was not about to have anything more to do with him after what we all laughingly called "The Great Pony Poop Caper." Nor was I, or any of my associates.

...an analysis by myself and my team of Titmus' work and behavior produced two conclusions. One, that he had discovered the clearing and the dung pile by accident and that his background and experience in the northwest forests were so limited and immature that he really believed that his great find was something other than what it really was, i.e., equine feces.

Or, two, that the whole episode was nothing less than a clever scam, from beginning to end, one that gave him a year's comfortable earnings via a healthy retainer and expenses and, in addition, temporarily at least, his longed-for reputation as a master tracker and expert on the Bigfoot mystery.

Of the two, the latter conclusion seems the more likely for it seems incredible that anyone who has spent more than a day in the outdoors could mistake horse or pony droppings for anything other than what they obviously are. Peter C. Byrne 2009

Lots of other juicy stuff in the article.

captain koolaid · 1st October 2009, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

I have said that Titmus may have been the most prolific Bigfoot hoaxer of the Classic Era. But I had not yet read this humdinger...

Peter Byrne drops a bomb on Bob Titmus

Lots of other juicy stuff in the article.

MK Davis seems to regard Titmus more like "the Dutch Schaefer of the Classic Era".

Quote:

MK Davis on Bob Titmus, 24/3/09 What really happened at Bluff Creek?

"...I intend to refer to this film, the PGF, as the PG and T film ... This brings to mind a story told by Bob Titmus ... He told a story of being down in Bluff Creek and getting caught out, and the sun going down on him and he couldn't make it back to camp. And because of his fear of the Sasquatch, he dug a hole and got down in that hole and covered himself with leaves. And the Sasquatch came round him at night looking for him and he could hear them smelling, and sniffing the air. But there was nothing there but his eyes peering out from the leaves and they couldn't find him. He said that they stayed around him all night, until almost the break of day before they left. And now, after uhh, seeing this (bluff creek massacree) I can understand that being down there and perhaps maybe being alone, that it may have been hunting going on both ways ... You can look at him, the way he's looking at those tracks, this is a special man, no doubt. Maybe sometimes it takes a special person, you know, to do a special job.

http://www.artistfirst.com/bigfoot2008.html

HarryHenderson · 2nd October 2009, 08:03 PM

Although a Bigfoot Enthusiast™ for 38+ years, what I know about Bob Titmus could probably fit in one sentence. Yet I know of Byrne as being one of the 'founding fathers' of Modern Bigfootdom™. As I remember (books and shows), an intelligent, rational, savvy, personable and always hopeful 'straight shooter'. Not in the business of undeserved bashing of others. If what he says is true, Titmus..."...the man was a buffoon.", I mean, what a MAROON. Yet, it seems now even more possible a perfect cohort for Roger 'Big Hoax' Patterson's hairy shenanigans. Maybe Gimlin really was 'the stooge' and Titmus the actual partner. Who knows, but I'm more than willing to 'hear' more of Byrne's 'Bigfoot and Me' stories.

BTW, William Parcher is fast becoming the next Bigfoot Poobah™. And to think he does it all without thinking about Bigfoot but once a year, and for less than a minute when he does. Oh no, wait... No seriously, that's some good sniffin' considering your claim (I think) was made before Byrne had ever said these words. Are there any posts or sites that could give us a better rundown of this Bob 'My Last Name is No Laughing Matter' Titmus? The Squatchopedia entry has only his picture (and another link to his eulogy).

ETA: Despite a proven talent for photo manipulation, that M.K. Davis fella is one whacked dude. Is he on medication?

M.K.Davis · 5th October 2009, 12:09 AM

If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs. Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally. You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film. I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads. The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis

rockinkt · 5th October 2009, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs. Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally. You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film. I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads. The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis

Wow! A conspiracy theory involving us boring Canadians.

Too bad there is not a shred of evidence to back up anything you claim.

captain koolaid · 5th October 2009, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs.[edit]

Fair enough. Thanks for coming, Mr.Davis, it's fantastic that you are here.

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

[edit] Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally.[edit]

Interesting. You aren't impressed by BT's tracking abilities? The impression I got from your broadcasts was that BT was a significant "Bigfoot hunter", worthy of recognition, despite his inclination to kill. Is this not the case? Is it accurate to say that you consider BT as inept as Byrne suggests? That BT simply got lucky, somehow? His main achievement was the event/s that took place during and after the film shooting?

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

[edit] You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film.[edit]

Regardless of what one might say is going on, or not, in that film, there's something shonky about the PGF.

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

[edit] I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads.[edit]

Definitely in agreement regarding the story behind the film. What do you make of the post-filming process? The development, the timeline etc?

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

[edit] The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. [edit]

Unedited form, indeed. That really is the crux of the matter, isn't it? Regardless of what stand one takes about the subject on film.

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

[edit]Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis[edit]

Can you elaborate on the editing that you suspect is present?

BTW- Very much enjoy your work.

LTC8K6 · 5th October 2009, 05:07 AM

Damn Canadians! I knew it!

Drewbot · 5th October 2009, 06:27 AM

How about Esteban Sarmiento taking some shots at the PGF?

http://www.statesman.com/sports/cont...gfootside.html

Originally Posted by Dr. Esteban Sarmiento

"A great ape (chimp, gorilla or orangutuan) can't do this. I guarantee there's no great ape that can do this," Sarmiento says, pointing to the frame in the film when the creature turns in full stride to look over its shoulder at the camera. "A gorilla couldn't do this. It can't turn it's head. An ape would have to stop and turn around to look at the camera." Apes can walk on two legs, he said, but not with the stride and gait the Patterson Bigfoot uses. That's a human trait.

"And the breast is covered in hair. Gorillas don't have hair on their breasts. Apes only have breasts if they're nursing, but there's no baby in the film," Sarmiento said. "Females usually have a baby around, and I don't think it would leave and not take the baby." Sarmiento added that the bottom of the Bigfoot's foot in the film isn't an ape's foot with an opposable toe and even noted that it looks somewhat like a padded house shoe.

So what is it? What does the film show? "If I can't show it either way, why would I make the call," Saremiento said. "If it's real it has to be a whole new species. Is it a man in a monkey suit? I don't know. If I said that and it turned out not to be, then I'd look stupid."

EHocking · 5th October 2009, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

How about Esteban Sarmiento taking some shots at the PGF?

http://www.statesman.com/sports/cont...gfootside.html

"A gorilla couldn't do this. It can't turn it's head. An ape would have to stop and turn around to look at the camera."

Obviously a primatologist that can't spend 5mins searching YouTube - start at the 28sec mark.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

ETA: Not that I'm implying "patty" IS a gorilla, just picking nits, as is a sceptic's wont

makaya325 · 5th October 2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Primatologist: If Bigfoot exists, it's not an ape

Then what else could it be? A giant ground sloth?

LTC8K6 · 5th October 2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

An ape would have to stop and turn around to look at the camera.

Curiously, one of Roger's versions is that Patty did just that...while he was filming her...

makaya325 · 5th October 2009, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

Curiously, one of Roger's versions is that Patty did just that...while he was filming her...

Whoever assumed it has to be an ape? Why can't it be a new species of Hominid, which can duplicate the turn by Patty

LTC8K6 · 5th October 2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

She was just swinging along as the first part of my film shows but, all of a sudden, she just stopped dead and looked around at me. She wasn't scared a bit. Fact is, I don't think she was scared of me, and the only thing I can think of is that the clicking of my camera was new to her."

Anybody seen that clip?

Imagine the images we'd have if Patty had actually stopped and turned to look at Roger...

SweatyYeti · 5th October 2009, 10:52 AM

M.K. Davis wrote:

Quote:

....but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage,....

Absolutely, MK!

Actually....along those lines...I'm working on some analysis, at the moment, involving Patty's elbows....which shows, positively, that Bob Heironimus could not have been Patty. His elbows could not possibly reach the same positions that Patty's elbows are seen in.

Bob is presently....."deep-fried", as far as his "cofession" to being Patty goes.

I'm wondering, MK, if you would happen to have a better quality version of this frame...

If so....could you possibly post it here, or email a copy of it to me?? I'd really appreciate it!

I'm using that frame in my analysis....it's a very significant, and telling, frame...regarding the positions of the elbows...(mainly, the right elbow.)

SweatyYeti · 5th October 2009, 10:59 AM

Check this out...I modified the Vision Realm Patty skeleton....putting it's arms straight out...and compared them to an average human's skeleton...

Notice any difference???

(Hint: Look at the Elbows.)

LTC8K6 · 5th October 2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Notice any difference??? (Hint: Look at the Elbows.)

Look at the shoulders and the elbows...

How stupid can a person get?

Drewbot · 5th October 2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Notice any difference???

(Hint: Look at the Elbows.)

<<< Insert Kitakaze FACEPALM^TM Collage >>>>

Un Freaking Believable

GT/CS · 5th October 2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

<<< Insert Kitakaze FACEPALM^TM Collage >>>>

Un Freaking Believable

Here's a good one Drew.

SweatyYeti · 5th October 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

Look at the shoulders and the elbows...

How stupid can a person get?

He..............He..............He...

makaya325 · 5th October 2009, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...tyYeti/one.jpg

He..............He..............He...

Sweaty, may i ask you, why do you have an innocent child as your avatar?

William Parcher · 5th October 2009, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson

Are there any posts or sites that could give us a better rundown of this Bob 'My Last Name is No Laughing Matter' Titmus? The Squatchopedia entry has only his picture (and another link to his eulogy).

If you've got some time, you could just search in this forum using "Titmus". I know I have said quite a bit about him. Others too. We've got links to a vintage video clip showing him answering questions and going on about how he had tracked Bigfoot many hundreds of times.

kitakaze · 5th October 2009, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti

Notice any difference???

(Hint: Look at the Elbows.)

Of course, in Sweaty World posting avoiding LTC's statement of the obvious is the only way to go. Intellectual honesty is even more elusive for Sweaty than Bigfoot is.

*sigh*

Length of Vision Realm pseudo-science art fluff skeleton's humerus on screen: 2cm

Illustration of human skeleton's humerus on screen: 2cm

Length of Vision Realm pseudo-science art fluff skeleton's radius/ulna on screen: 1.5cm

Illustration of human skeleton's radius/ulna on screen: 1.5cm

You don't have a tape measure in there do you, Sweaty?...

Notice any similarity???

(Hint: Look at the numbers.)

*bzzt* FAIL. Next.

kitakaze · 5th October 2009, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by SweatyYeti

Bob is presently....."deep-fried", as far as his "cofession" to being Patty goes.

Deepfried by what? The desperate wishes of a lying fanatic? Come back when you have something with which to deepfry. Presently it is the notion that Patty can not be a human of BH's proportions in a suit that uses no more than a head piece, shoulder pads, and gloves without extensions that is burnt to a crisp. In the meantime here's some Patty Tenpura...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

captain koolaid · 6th October 2009, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

Damn Canadians! I knew it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYSYipouABI

kitakaze · 6th October 2009, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by M.K.Davis

If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs. Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally. You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film. I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads. The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis

Anyone with questions for MK, please be aware that he's been suspended for a week for multiple accounts...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=155717

MK seems to have a habit of registering an account, making a couple posts, leaving, forgetting the password, and coming back much later and registering a new account.

MK, if you haven't already, you should make clear that you didn't intend to make socks and that at least with a few of your accounts, you made clear who you were. Please don't lose your password. Just try some post-it notes or I don't know what.

kitakaze · 6th October 2009, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Drewbot

<<< Insert Kitakaze FACEPALM^TM Collage >>>>

Un Freaking Believable

Just to be clear, the facepalm collage is RayG's specialty. Here's one...

Originally Posted by RayG

Bigfootery is filled with facepalms. If people listen to or look at a lot of the outrageous claims, nutjob investigators, wacky organizations, credulous scientists, pseudo-scientific techniques, and flimsy evidence being presented, without doing this:

then I have to question their reasoning abilities. Seriously.

RayG

I rely on Starfleet when the face requires the palm. In this case I would say that Sweaty's two-armed fail needs a two-armed face palm. Just retract them from the outward extended position and put them right here...

"Why, oh why, oh why?" Jean-Luc is saying.

William Parcher · 6th October 2009, 04:30 PM

There is some debate going on at BFF about the mailing of the film from Eureka to Yakima (or where ever). I wanted to point out the driving distance from where they were camped to Eureka. Mangler posted about it here. It matters for the timeline. I guess it's about 210 miles round-trip over varying elevation.

Originally Posted by mangler

That's some gooooood driving in Bobs old one ton considering it's about 105 miles from the bridge at Notice to Eureka, about 33 miles of that is +/-elevation from 2300' at Notice to about 4900' on Onion Mountain, then back down to around 550' at the Klamath River.

makaya325 · 6th October 2009, 10:13 PM

WP, people's memories diminish as time goes on. This error on Gimlins part is irrelevant to the films authenticity. Focus on the Film itself, not the aspects

LTC8K6 · 6th October 2009, 10:39 PM

It would have taken them an hour minimum just to ride back and get the casting materials, imo. And that's being generous... A little less than 2 miles each way over rugged terrain, plus loading time, etc.

Then you have the time to gather up the paniced horses, the time to unload and reload the camera, the time for Gimlin to ride off with the reloaded camera and search for tracks and the "other one"...

The time to film the casting process, the time to film the stomp test, the time for the plaster to dry for the posed shots holding the casts...

Add that to the 3.5 mile out and back tracking time, and then the drive time to drop off the film....over not so good roads, too...

No wonder 3:30 became 1:30, and even so it's a big stretch...

HarryHenderson · 6th October 2009, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

If you've got some time, you could just search in this forum using "Titmus". I know I have said quite a bit about him. Others too. We've got links to a vintage video clip showing him answering questions and going on about how he had tracked Bigfoot many hundreds of times.

Okay done. Missed the video though. I've now got a better picture of this guy. So essentially, he just makes things up as he goes along? Simply amazing. Even more 'proof' the PGF is so not a Bigfoot.

As for M.K. Davis, the PGF 'story' just gets bigger and bigger huh? The Patterson Bluff Creek Bigfoot Massacre Film Editing Conspiracy Theory Hijinks Event™? Sorry, even allowing for his photo manipulation expertise, his **** still stinks.

William Parcher · 7th October 2009, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson

Missed the video though.

Here you go. It's Bigfootery circa 1984.

Here's a card I made just for you. The King of Bigfoot Clubs^TM.

William Parcher · 7th October 2009, 11:07 AM

Take a look at this big list of California encounters and findings. You see Bob Titmus everywhere, and that's just for one state. Tom Slick was paying him to hunt down Bigfoot. Obviously he would never produce a body or part, but he could crank out the supportive stuff like sightings and hundreds of tracking events (some with casts). This would keep Slick thinking that BF exists and Bob is on his trail. Keep the paycheck coming please. Can you think of a modern scenario where a rich Bigfoot lover is funding the "efforts" of a guy to go get him?

William Parcher · 7th October 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Gimlin to John Green 1992

In that area, that time of year, the sun goes down about 3:30 or 4 o'clock.

In fact right that afternoon. By the time we got the tracks cast and the different deals that we did to cast the tracks done, it was getting late. It was almost dark by the time we got back down to the truck and got the horses fed and tied up. By the time we got into town at Al Hodgson's store, it was good and dark. I imagine it was about 8:30 or 9 o'clock. Then we went on over to...[reflecting]... oh whatever town that was to mail the film up to Al de Atley, Roger's brother-in-law, so he could take it and get it developed to see if there was really anything on the film.

It's almost 3:30-4 when they are all done with the things on the sandbar and 3.5 mile tracking and back to the truck. They accomplished a lot between 1:30 and 4:00. The plaster drying alone could take one hour or so. Then another 5 hours pass before they show up at Hodgeson's? Why so long? Then they get to Hodgeson's at almost 9pm and do the whole chit-chat broken stirrup thing and head out for Eureka/Arcata. That trip is 105 miles and is probably going to take 2-3 hours.

According to what Gimlin is saying here, they probably arrived in Eureka/Arcata around midnight or later. Then they go to a post office or airport? Whaaa?

HarryHenderson · 7th October 2009, 04:25 PM

Thank you for the redirects WP. And the card.

I admit I sometimes sound/seem more naive about some of this stuff than I actually am, but that's mostly because I've not paid enough attention to all the 'more subtle' aspects, especially when it comes to all the hoaxing and hoaxers. A good portion of my 'Bigfoot Career' (pre-internet) was simply seeking scary-hairy-monster-stories. Their being true or not didn't really matter so much.

Perfect example is your post directly above. Although knowing about the PGF for 41+ years (in fact I've two original copies of the famous Argosy magazine Feb. '68 issue within 2 feet of where I sit this minute), the only place I've cared about learning about the actual time line of the PGF shenanigans has been on internet forums, and in fact I'm now convinced there's been all manner of deception and tall tales given by the participants regarding such.

William Parcher · 7th October 2009, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by bobbieshort

Out-take from Patterson's 1968 newsletter, regarding how long they were in the area and the much debated statement that they "tracked Patty 3 miles..." ...fwiw....

This was written by Roger Patterson himself. There is no "reporter error" here, so it is a fact that they tracked Patty for 3 miles in mountainous wilderness according to Roger. That must have taken a tremendous amount of time. Slow and tedious because they always have to be looking down for faint impressions. Then vigilant and steady in case an ambush were launched. It probably took 3-4 hours or more for this round-trip tracking event. This must be factored into the timeline.

William Parcher · 7th October 2009, 09:57 PM

People on BFF are asking where this image came from. It's an MK Davis product. Yep. You can bet he was playing with the knobs again to make things look just the way he wants. He was also the one who made graphic comparisons of what was to be original film and of "public copies". He thinks the film was altered so that the massacred "feral human" would look more like an ape. All that stuff was on Bobbie Short's Bigfoot Encounters. It's all gone now.

Bill Green just said this on BFF. Creature animal primate.

Quote:

hey admins everyone if mk just did enhandsments on the creature animal primate in this film and nothing around it then this whole situation would never happened but to be continued just my opinion..

LTC8K6 · 8th October 2009, 05:35 AM

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/ima...crepancies.htm

William Parcher · 8th October 2009, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/ima...crepancies.htm

Hey, there it is. I couldn't find it again. She has them linked in "Streaming Video" instead of "Images". I forgot that, and it isn't intuitive because the pages contain almost entirely still images with only a few clips.

This is another page of more of this stuff from Davis.

William Parcher · 8th October 2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson

I've now got a better picture of this guy. So essentially, he just makes things up as he goes along? Simply amazing. Even more 'proof' the PGF is so not a Bigfoot.

It's being discussed on BFF and here are a few selected quotes from various posters...

Quote:

"I couldn't understand the need to write an article defaming Bob Titmus."

"I don't think I should accept Byrne's accounts as "real" more than any other BF "hunter." To go to such lengths to smear someone doesn't say much about the person doing the smearing (and who hasn't exactly brought the big guy in for show and tell himself, has he?)."

"It's a broad assumption Titmus was pulling a hoax."

"Byrne was just jealous because he wanted to be portrayed as the great tracker. It's also very easy to smear the name of a dead man, who's not going to disagree with you right."

"Byrne has always seemed like a poser to me. I'm not getting on the Titmus bashing bandwagon because I think he's contributed just as much as Byrne has as far as anything incontrovertible relating to BF goes."

"Titmus never tried to cash in on the BF fame wagon like so many have done did he?"

"Peter Byrne is a fraud. He tells the public that Sasquatch is near human because that's what they like to hear." old quote from John Green

"Yeah, this doesn't overall effect my feelings about Titmus. The implication of a hoax (about the worst thing you could accuse someone of in this field) is not substantiated by Byrne."

William Parcher · 8th October 2009, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Hey, there it is. I couldn't find it again.

Well, I didn't mention another reason why I thought they were removed by Bobbie. She did remove other Davis stuff showing the gunshot blasts hitting Patty. She presented it in her post here. That link is now dead.

1st October 2009, 05:36 PM	#2481
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	I have said that Titmus may have been the most prolific Bigfoot hoaxer of the Classic Era. But I had not yet read this humdinger... Peter Byrne drops a bomb on Bob Titmus Quote: ...to ask him as many questions as we could about his knowledge of Pacific Northwest wildlife, local conditions, Bigfoot lore and history. We did this because he has been described to us an expert woodsman and a veteran in forest lore (and indeed, was being employed as such by Tom Slick) and we were very keen to gauge the extent of his knowledge and, if possible, of course, apply it to our own work. To this end we managed to detain him long enough to get him to reluctantly agree to a short walk with us down a dusty logging road near our camp, one on which, within ten minutes of walking, we found a set of Black Bear paw prints. The prints, about six inches in length, were old, faded and were typical bear, with the short forefoot print and the elongated "banana shaped" rear imprint. Titmus, however, looked at the prints for two or three minutes and then promptly declared them to have been made by a young Bigfoot... ...Titmus photographed and measured them and later we heard that he had sent the photographs to Tom and described them as genuine prints of a young Bigfoot. ...What Titmus said he had discovered, his secret project from which we were all excluded, was something extraordinary. It was, simply a place in the mountains where a Bigfoot-and maybe more than one-came to defecate on what appeared to be a regular schedule. In other words, a permanent Bigfoot toilet. As Tom talked, I could see disbelief on the faces of the others. Nevertheless, we listened politely as he went on. The plan, he told us, had been for Titmus to show him the place in question, after which an operation would be designed, one that would include a 24/7 watch on the area and possibly the use of planes and helicopters and additional support teams, including scientists, as needed. We would all be part of it and the object of the plan would be, at the very least, to document any BFs coming or going to the site, via still and motion-picture photography. There could be a possibility, Tom thought, of making face-to-face contact with one and even, farfetched though it might sound, the exciting prospect of communication.... ...He said that Titmus was wide-eyed with what looked like fear and as the footsteps got closer and closer, he had to admit that he was not far off panic himself. Then, suddenly, out of the Manzanita brush to their left, a large brown object walked into view. It was not, however, as Tom expected, a Bigfoot, but a medium-sized, brown-colored pony on the back of which sat a medium- sized old man, a Native American, dressed in a leather jacket and a battered felt hat and with a thick black ponytail hanging down his back. The old man rode up to the little tree, got off his mount, removed two small baskets from the back of the pony, tied the pony to the tree and then turned around to stare directly at the two men lying prone at the edge of the clearing.... ...Tom told us, the pony made a generous contribution... We never saw Titmus again. We heard that he went straight back to Redding, packed up and then drove his battered old car all the way to Bella Coola, in northern British Columbia, where he took up residence, and employment, as a taxi driver. We did hear, later, that he tried once more to develop an association with Tom, dubiously claiming another sighting somewhere, this time, he said, of two of the creatures. But Tom was not about to have anything more to do with him after what we all laughingly called "The Great Pony Poop Caper." Nor was I, or any of my associates. ...an analysis by myself and my team of Titmus' work and behavior produced two conclusions. One, that he had discovered the clearing and the dung pile by accident and that his background and experience in the northwest forests were so limited and immature that he really believed that his great find was something other than what it really was, i.e., equine feces. Or, two, that the whole episode was nothing less than a clever scam, from beginning to end, one that gave him a year's comfortable earnings via a healthy retainer and expenses and, in addition, temporarily at least, his longed-for reputation as a master tracker and expert on the Bigfoot mystery. Of the two, the latter conclusion seems the more likely for it seems incredible that anyone who has spent more than a day in the outdoors could mistake horse or pony droppings for anything other than what they obviously are. Peter C. Byrne 2009 Lots of other juicy stuff in the article.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

1st October 2009, 08:35 PM	#2482
captain koolaid Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 207	Originally Posted by William Parcher I have said that Titmus may have been the most prolific Bigfoot hoaxer of the Classic Era. But I had not yet read this humdinger... Peter Byrne drops a bomb on Bob Titmus Lots of other juicy stuff in the article. MK Davis seems to regard Titmus more like "the Dutch Schaefer of the Classic Era". Quote: MK Davis on Bob Titmus, 24/3/09 What really happened at Bluff Creek? "...I intend to refer to this film, the PGF, as the PG and T film ... This brings to mind a story told by Bob Titmus ... He told a story of being down in Bluff Creek and getting caught out, and the sun going down on him and he couldn't make it back to camp. And because of his fear of the Sasquatch, he dug a hole and got down in that hole and covered himself with leaves. And the Sasquatch came round him at night looking for him and he could hear them smelling, and sniffing the air. But there was nothing there but his eyes peering out from the leaves and they couldn't find him. He said that they stayed around him all night, until almost the break of day before they left. And now, after uhh, seeing this (bluff creek massacree) I can understand that being down there and perhaps maybe being alone, that it may have been hunting going on both ways ... You can look at him, the way he's looking at those tracks, this is a special man, no doubt. Maybe sometimes it takes a special person, you know, to do a special job. http://www.artistfirst.com/bigfoot2008.html
captain koolaid Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 207	Last edited by captain koolaid; 1st October 2009 at 09:38 PM.

2nd October 2009, 08:03 PM	#2483
HarryHenderson Thinker Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 166	Although a Bigfoot Enthusiast™ for 38+ years, what I know about Bob Titmus could probably fit in one sentence. Yet I know of Byrne as being one of the 'founding fathers' of Modern Bigfootdom™. As I remember (books and shows), an intelligent, rational, savvy, personable and always hopeful 'straight shooter'. Not in the business of undeserved bashing of others. If what he says is true, Titmus..."...the man was a buffoon.", I mean, what a MAROON. Yet, it seems now even more possible a perfect cohort for Roger 'Big Hoax' Patterson's hairy shenanigans. Maybe Gimlin really was 'the stooge' and Titmus the actual partner. Who knows, but I'm more than willing to 'hear' more of Byrne's 'Bigfoot and Me' stories. BTW, William Parcher is fast becoming the next Bigfoot Poobah™. And to think he does it all without thinking about Bigfoot but once a year, and for less than a minute when he does. Oh no, wait... No seriously, that's some good sniffin' considering your claim (I think) was made before Byrne had ever said these words. Are there any posts or sites that could give us a better rundown of this Bob 'My Last Name is No Laughing Matter' Titmus? The Squatchopedia entry has only his picture (and another link to his eulogy). ETA: Despite a proven talent for photo manipulation, that M.K. Davis fella is one whacked dude. Is he on medication?
HarryHenderson Thinker Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 166	Last edited by HarryHenderson; 2nd October 2009 at 08:10 PM.

5th October 2009, 12:09 AM	#2484
M.K.Davis Student Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 27	Medication If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs. Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally. You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film. I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads. The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis
M.K.Davis Student Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 27

5th October 2009, 03:05 AM	#2485
rockinkt Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 374	Originally Posted by M.K.Davis If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs. Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally. You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film. I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads. The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis Wow! A conspiracy theory involving us boring Canadians. Too bad there is not a shred of evidence to back up anything you claim.
rockinkt Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 374	__________________ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke Non plaudite. Modo pecuniam jacite

5th October 2009, 03:11 AM	#2486
captain koolaid Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 207	Originally Posted by M.K.Davis If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs.[edit] Fair enough. Thanks for coming, Mr.Davis, it's fantastic that you are here. Originally Posted by M.K.Davis [edit] Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally.[edit] Interesting. You aren't impressed by BT's tracking abilities? The impression I got from your broadcasts was that BT was a significant "Bigfoot hunter", worthy of recognition, despite his inclination to kill. Is this not the case? Is it accurate to say that you consider BT as inept as Byrne suggests? That BT simply got lucky, somehow? His main achievement was the event/s that took place during and after the film shooting? Originally Posted by M.K.Davis [edit] You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film.[edit] Regardless of what one might say is going on, or not, in that film, there's something shonky about the PGF. Originally Posted by M.K.Davis [edit] I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads.[edit] Definitely in agreement regarding the story behind the film. What do you make of the post-filming process? The development, the timeline etc? Originally Posted by M.K.Davis [edit] The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. [edit] Unedited form, indeed. That really is the crux of the matter, isn't it? Regardless of what stand one takes about the subject on film. Originally Posted by M.K.Davis [edit]Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis[edit] Can you elaborate on the editing that you suspect is present? BTW- Very much enjoy your work.
captain koolaid Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 207

5th October 2009, 05:07 AM	#2487
LTC8K6 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 6,976	Damn Canadians! I knew it!
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

5th October 2009, 06:27 AM	#2488
Drewbot Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,593	How about Esteban Sarmiento taking some shots at the PGF? http://www.statesman.com/sports/cont...gfootside.html Originally Posted by Dr. Esteban Sarmiento "A great ape (chimp, gorilla or orangutuan) can't do this. I guarantee there's no great ape that can do this," Sarmiento says, pointing to the frame in the film when the creature turns in full stride to look over its shoulder at the camera. "A gorilla couldn't do this. It can't turn it's head. An ape would have to stop and turn around to look at the camera." Apes can walk on two legs, he said, but not with the stride and gait the Patterson Bigfoot uses. That's a human trait. "And the breast is covered in hair. Gorillas don't have hair on their breasts. Apes only have breasts if they're nursing, but there's no baby in the film," Sarmiento said. "Females usually have a baby around, and I don't think it would leave and not take the baby." Sarmiento added that the bottom of the Bigfoot's foot in the film isn't an ape's foot with an opposable toe and even noted that it looks somewhat like a padded house shoe. So what is it? What does the film show? "If I can't show it either way, why would I make the call," Saremiento said. "If it's real it has to be a whole new species. Is it a man in a monkey suit? I don't know. If I said that and it turned out not to be, then I'd look stupid."
Drewbot Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,593	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325

5th October 2009, 07:25 AM	#2490
makaya325 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: It's ok, im a limo driver! Posts: 4,655	Quote: Primatologist: If Bigfoot exists, it's not an ape Then what else could it be? A giant ground sloth?

5th October 2009, 07:47 AM	#2491
LTC8K6 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 6,976	Quote: An ape would have to stop and turn around to look at the camera. Curiously, one of Roger's versions is that Patty did just that...while he was filming her...
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

5th October 2009, 07:48 AM	#2492
makaya325 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: It's ok, im a limo driver! Posts: 4,655	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 Curiously, one of Roger's versions is that Patty did just that...while he was filming her... Whoever assumed it has to be an ape? Why can't it be a new species of Hominid, which can duplicate the turn by Patty

5th October 2009, 07:54 AM	#2493
LTC8K6 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 6,976	Quote: She was just swinging along as the first part of my film shows but, all of a sudden, she just stopped dead and looked around at me. She wasn't scared a bit. Fact is, I don't think she was scared of me, and the only thing I can think of is that the clicking of my camera was new to her." Anybody seen that clip? Imagine the images we'd have if Patty had actually stopped and turned to look at Roger...
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

5th October 2009, 10:52 AM	#2494
SweatyYeti Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,265	M.K. Davis wrote: Quote: ....but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage,.... Absolutely, MK! Actually....along those lines...I'm working on some analysis, at the moment, involving Patty's elbows....which shows, positively, that Bob Heironimus could not have been Patty. His elbows could not *possibly* reach the same positions that Patty's elbows are seen in. Bob is presently....."deep-fried", as far as his "cofession" to being Patty goes. I'm wondering, MK, if you would happen to have a better quality version of this frame... If so....could you possibly post it here, or email a copy of it to me?? I'd really appreciate it! I'm using that frame in my analysis....it's a very significant, and telling, frame...regarding the positions of the elbows...(mainly, the right elbow.)
	__________________ The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

5th October 2009, 10:59 AM	#2495
SweatyYeti Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,265	Check this out...I modified the Vision Realm Patty skeleton....putting it's arms straight out...and compared them to an average human's skeleton... Notice any difference??? (Hint: Look at the Elbows.)
	__________________ The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

5th October 2009, 11:17 AM	#2496
LTC8K6 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 6,976	Quote: Notice any difference??? (Hint: Look at the Elbows.) Look at the shoulders and the elbows... How stupid can a person get?
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

5th October 2009, 11:19 AM	#2497
Drewbot Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,593	Quote: Notice any difference??? (Hint: Look at the Elbows.) <<< Insert Kitakaze FACEPALM^TM Collage >>>> Un Freaking Believable
Drewbot Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,593	__________________ "I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325

5th October 2009, 03:47 PM	#2499
SweatyYeti Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,265	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 Look at the shoulders and the elbows... How stupid can a person get? He..............He..............He...
	__________________ The wisdom of Diogenes.... "So far, I am not aware of any evidence which indicates with any degree of likeliness, however small, that Bigfoot creatures exist....anywhere in the world." tyr13: "There is no proof of bigfoot so there is no proof that bigfoot isn't a bear."

5th October 2009, 04:05 PM	#2500
makaya325 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: It's ok, im a limo driver! Posts: 4,655	Originally Posted by SweatyYeti http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...tyYeti/one.jpg He..............He..............He... Sweaty, may i ask you, why do you have an innocent child as your avatar?

5th October 2009, 05:18 PM	#2501
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by HarryHenderson Are there any posts or sites that could give us a better rundown of this Bob 'My Last Name is No Laughing Matter' Titmus? The Squatchopedia entry has only his picture (and another link to his eulogy). If you've got some time, you could just search in this forum using "Titmus". I know I have said quite a bit about him. Others too. We've got links to a vintage video clip showing him answering questions and going on about how he had tracked Bigfoot many hundreds of times.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

5th October 2009, 10:41 PM	#2502
kitakaze Resident DJ/NSA Supermole Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Behind the decks in Tokyo, Japan Posts: 8,198	Originally Posted by SweatyYeti Notice any difference??? (Hint: Look at the Elbows.) Of course, in Sweaty World posting avoiding LTC's statement of the obvious is the only way to go. Intellectual honesty is even more elusive for Sweaty than Bigfoot is. sigh Length of Vision Realm pseudo-science art fluff skeleton's humerus on screen: 2cm Illustration of human skeleton's humerus on screen: 2cm Length of Vision Realm pseudo-science art fluff skeleton's radius/ulna on screen: 1.5cm Illustration of human skeleton's radius/ulna on screen: 1.5cm You don't have a tape measure in there do you, Sweaty?... Notice any similarity??? (Hint: Look at the numbers.) bzzt FAIL. Next.
	__________________ Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

6th October 2009, 01:20 AM	#2504
captain koolaid Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 207	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 Damn Canadians! I knew it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYSYipouABI
captain koolaid Thinker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 207	Last edited by captain koolaid; 6th October 2009 at 01:22 AM.

6th October 2009, 01:44 AM	#2505
kitakaze Resident DJ/NSA Supermole Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Behind the decks in Tokyo, Japan Posts: 8,198	Originally Posted by M.K.Davis If I was taking medication that was any good, I wouldn't be reading bigfoot blogs. Peter Byrne's critique about Mr. Titmus is most likely an accurate one. There is an old saying down here where I live that goes like this: " Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then ". It appears that Mr. Titmus did indeed find such an acorn. I try and give credit where credit is due, no matter what I might think of the person personally. You folks over here are experts at skepticism, and rightfully so with this film. I can't go into the film a lot right now, but I'm here to tell you that, the film stands a good chance of being an authentic piece of footage, but the story that explains the film, as has been told and retold, in my humble opinion, is contrived, and deliberately misleads. The true story of the film is a very long and twisted one that makes its way into Canada. The strings that are being pulled, are from there. What most people have seen of the film, is no where near the true quality of what was first shown. The high quality of the original film, in its unedited form, shows way too much for the comfort of those who reside in the land of the maple leaf. Alterations of the facial area have been done on it, and quite a bit of editing as well, as far as I can tell. This, in my opinion, not to hide a hoax, but to hide the nature of what is on it, for it appears that the entire area is an aceldama. M.K.Davis Anyone with questions for MK, please be aware that he's been suspended for a week for multiple accounts... http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=155717 MK seems to have a habit of registering an account, making a couple posts, leaving, forgetting the password, and coming back much later and registering a new account. MK, if you haven't already, you should make clear that you didn't intend to make socks and that at least with a few of your accounts, you made clear who you were. Please don't lose your password. Just try some post-it notes or I don't know what.
	__________________ Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

6th October 2009, 02:40 AM	#2506
kitakaze Resident DJ/NSA Supermole Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Behind the decks in Tokyo, Japan Posts: 8,198	Originally Posted by Drewbot <<< Insert Kitakaze FACEPALM^TM Collage >>>> Un Freaking Believable Just to be clear, the facepalm collage is RayG's specialty. Here's one... Originally Posted by RayG Bigfootery is filled with facepalms. If people listen to or look at a lot of the outrageous claims, nutjob investigators, wacky organizations, credulous scientists, pseudo-scientific techniques, and flimsy evidence being presented, without doing this: then I have to question their reasoning abilities. Seriously. RayG I rely on Starfleet when the face requires the palm. In this case I would say that Sweaty's two-armed fail needs a two-armed face palm. Just retract them from the outward extended position and put them right here... "Why, oh why, oh why?" Jean-Luc is saying.
	__________________ Until better evidence is provided, the best solution to the PGF is that it is a man in a suit. -Astrophotographer. 2 prints, 1 trackway, same 'dermals'? 'Unfortunately no' says Meldrum. I want to see bigfoot throw a pig... Is that wrong? -LTC8K6

6th October 2009, 04:30 PM	#2507
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	There is some debate going on at BFF about the mailing of the film from Eureka to Yakima (or where ever). I wanted to point out the driving distance from where they were camped to Eureka. Mangler posted about it here. It matters for the timeline. I guess it's about 210 miles round-trip over varying elevation. Originally Posted by mangler That's some gooooood driving in Bobs old one ton considering it's about 105 miles from the bridge at Notice to Eureka, about 33 miles of that is +/-elevation from 2300' at Notice to about 4900' on Onion Mountain, then back down to around 550' at the Klamath River.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

6th October 2009, 10:13 PM	#2508
makaya325 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: It's ok, im a limo driver! Posts: 4,655	WP, people's memories diminish as time goes on. This error on Gimlins part is irrelevant to the films authenticity. Focus on the Film itself, not the aspects

6th October 2009, 10:39 PM	#2509
LTC8K6 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 6,976	It would have taken them an hour minimum just to ride back and get the casting materials, imo. And that's being generous... A little less than 2 miles each way over rugged terrain, plus loading time, etc. Then you have the time to gather up the paniced horses, the time to unload and reload the camera, the time for Gimlin to ride off with the reloaded camera and search for tracks and the "other one"... The time to film the casting process, the time to film the stomp test, the time for the plaster to dry for the posed shots holding the casts... Add that to the 3.5 mile out and back tracking time, and then the drive time to drop off the film....over not so good roads, too... No wonder 3:30 became 1:30, and even so it's a big stretch...
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? Last edited by LTC8K6; 6th October 2009 at 10:41 PM.

6th October 2009, 11:40 PM	#2510
HarryHenderson Thinker Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 166	Originally Posted by William Parcher If you've got some time, you could just search in this forum using "Titmus". I know I have said quite a bit about him. Others too. We've got links to a vintage video clip showing him answering questions and going on about how he had tracked Bigfoot many hundreds of times. Okay done. Missed the video though. I've now got a better picture of this guy. So essentially, he just makes things up as he goes along? Simply amazing. Even more 'proof' the PGF is so not a Bigfoot. As for M.K. Davis, the PGF 'story' just gets bigger and bigger huh? The Patterson Bluff Creek Bigfoot Massacre Film Editing Conspiracy Theory Hijinks Event™? Sorry, even allowing for his photo manipulation expertise, his **** still stinks.
HarryHenderson Thinker Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 166

7th October 2009, 12:02 AM	#2511
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by HarryHenderson Missed the video though. Here you go. It's Bigfootery circa 1984. Here's a card I made just for you. The King of Bigfoot Clubs^TM.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

7th October 2009, 11:07 AM	#2512
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	Take a look at this big list of California encounters and findings. You see Bob Titmus everywhere, and that's just for one state. Tom Slick was paying him to hunt down Bigfoot. Obviously he would never produce a body or part, but he could crank out the supportive stuff like sightings and hundreds of tracking events (some with casts). This would keep Slick thinking that BF exists and Bob is on his trail. Keep the paycheck coming please. Can you think of a modern scenario where a rich Bigfoot lover is funding the "efforts" of a guy to go get him?
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

7th October 2009, 11:28 AM	#2513
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by Bob Gimlin to John Green 1992 In that area, that time of year, the sun goes down about 3:30 or 4 o'clock. In fact right that afternoon. By the time we got the tracks cast and the different deals that we did to cast the tracks done, it was getting late. It was almost dark by the time we got back down to the truck and got the horses fed and tied up. By the time we got into town at Al Hodgson's store, it was good and dark. I imagine it was about 8:30 or 9 o'clock. Then we went on over to...[reflecting]... oh whatever town that was to mail the film up to Al de Atley, Roger's brother-in-law, so he could take it and get it developed to see if there was really anything on the film. It's almost 3:30-4 when they are all done with the things on the sandbar and 3.5 mile tracking and back to the truck. They accomplished a lot between 1:30 and 4:00. The plaster drying alone could take one hour or so. Then another 5 hours pass before they show up at Hodgeson's? Why so long? Then they get to Hodgeson's at almost 9pm and do the whole chit-chat broken stirrup thing and head out for Eureka/Arcata. That trip is 105 miles and is probably going to take 2-3 hours. According to what Gimlin is saying here, they probably arrived in Eureka/Arcata around midnight or later. Then they go to a post office or airport? Whaaa?
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

7th October 2009, 04:25 PM	#2514
HarryHenderson Thinker Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 166	Thank you for the redirects WP. And the card. I admit I sometimes sound/seem more naive about some of this stuff than I actually am, but that's mostly because I've not paid enough attention to all the 'more subtle' aspects, especially when it comes to all the hoaxing and hoaxers. A good portion of my 'Bigfoot Career' (pre-internet) was simply seeking scary-hairy-monster-stories. Their being true or not didn't really matter so much. Perfect example is your post directly above. Although knowing about the PGF for 41+ years (in fact I've two original copies of the famous Argosy magazine Feb. '68 issue within 2 feet of where I sit this minute), the only place I've cared about learning about the actual time line of the PGF shenanigans has been on internet forums, and in fact I'm now convinced there's been all manner of deception and tall tales given by the participants regarding such.
HarryHenderson Thinker Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 166

7th October 2009, 07:29 PM	#2515
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by bobbieshort Out-take from Patterson's 1968 newsletter, regarding how long they were in the area and the much debated statement that they "tracked Patty 3 miles..." ...fwiw.... This was written by Roger Patterson himself. There is no "reporter error" here, so it is a fact that they tracked Patty for 3 miles in mountainous wilderness according to Roger. That must have taken a tremendous amount of time. Slow and tedious because they always have to be looking down for faint impressions. Then vigilant and steady in case an ambush were launched. It probably took 3-4 hours or more for this round-trip tracking event. This must be factored into the timeline.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

8th October 2009, 05:35 AM	#2517
LTC8K6 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 6,976	http://www.bigfootencounters.com/ima...crepancies.htm
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

8th October 2009, 09:53 AM	#2518
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 http://www.bigfootencounters.com/ima...crepancies.htm Hey, there it is. I couldn't find it again. She has them linked in "Streaming Video" instead of "Images". I forgot that, and it isn't intuitive because the pages contain almost entirely still images with only a few clips. This is another page of more of this stuff from Davis.
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

8th October 2009, 11:02 AM	#2519
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,930	Originally Posted by HarryHenderson I've now got a better picture of this guy. So essentially, he just makes things up as he goes along? Simply amazing. Even more 'proof' the PGF is so not a Bigfoot. It's being discussed on BFF and here are a few selected quotes from various posters... Quote: "I couldn't understand the need to write an article defaming Bob Titmus." "I don't think I should accept Byrne's accounts as "real" more than any other BF "hunter." To go to such lengths to smear someone doesn't say much about the person doing the smearing (and who hasn't exactly brought the big guy in for show and tell himself, has he?)." "It's a broad assumption Titmus was pulling a hoax." "Byrne was just jealous because he wanted to be portrayed as the great tracker. It's also very easy to smear the name of a dead man, who's not going to disagree with you right." "Byrne has always seemed like a poser to me. I'm not getting on the Titmus bashing bandwagon because I think he's contributed just as much as Byrne has as far as anything incontrovertible relating to BF goes." "Titmus never tried to cash in on the BF fame wagon like so many have done did he?" "Peter Byrne is a fraud. He tells the public that Sasquatch is near human because that's what they like to hear." old quote from John Green "Yeah, this doesn't overall effect my feelings about Titmus. The implication of a hoax (about the worst thing you could accuse someone of in this field) is not substantiated by Byrne."
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.