Hemp? The most valuable plant is illegal in America - Page 2

Mashuna · 24th January 2009, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by bwinwright

I apologize for my ill manners. I just don't have much patience for folks who refuse to face the ugly truth about the super rich folks who control things. The Tavistock Institute and Operation Mockingbird gang have done such a fantastic job of programming people to believe such nonsense. Again, I apologize for being so insulting. I probably shouldn't participate in such forums with so many idealists who reject the idea that virtually everything is a conspiracy today. The honest truth, IN MY OPINION, is that things are much, much uglier and more diabolical than most folks believe.

Again, forgive me. I honestly wish we were ruled by a more loving group of trillionaires. The world could be such a wonderful place. However, the truth appears to be, IN MY OPINION, that the Jesuit General, along with his Rothschild-led trillionaire banker friends are at the very top of the Global Pyramid of Power, calling the shots. They rule the world. Remember, IN MY OPINION, those with the most gold rule.

Again, please forgive me for being so insulting to those of you with whom I disagree. You are entitled to your opinions and I should show you respect, regardless.

I honestly love you. I know that seems ridiculous to say after being so insulting, but I really do. Why? Because I believe that Einstein's Unified Field is also intelligent, and that we are all connected, all part of the oneness, making us all part of the same whole, bothers and sisters so to speak. I think of all of us as gods within GOD. Yeah, some may disagree but this is MY OPINION.

I love you. Please forgive me for being unloving. I honestly do feel bad when I act that way, so I do feel the pain. However, now that I've told you I love you, I feel MO BETTA.

Perhaps you could carry out some research into the properties of hemp oil yourself. You've clearly got a good supply already.

jhunter1163 · 24th January 2009, 01:20 AM

I think a good economic argument could be made to legalize it and tax it. The scientists at Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds could no doubt grow some kick-(rule10) weed.* And if you taxed it at, say, $500 a pound, you could raise a whole lotta revenue.

* - Assuming they don't already, that is

ETA: Look what time I made this post..

Hokulele · 24th January 2009, 01:21 AM

11:20 pm?

jhunter1163 · 24th January 2009, 02:48 AM

I guess it only works in the Eastern time zone.

Sword_Of_Truth · 24th January 2009, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by bwinwright

I apologize for my ill manners. I just don't have much patience for folks who refuse to face the ugly truth about the super rich folks who control things. The Tavistock Institute and Operation Mockingbird gang have done such a fantastic job of programming people to believe such nonsense. Again, I apologize for being so insulting. I probably shouldn't participate in such forums with so many idealists who reject the idea that virtually everything is a conspiracy today. The honest truth, IN MY OPINION, is that things are much, much uglier and more diabolical than most folks believe.

Again, forgive me. I honestly wish we were ruled by a more loving group of trillionaires. The world could be such a wonderful place. However, the truth appears to be, IN MY OPINION, that the Jesuit General, along with his Rothschild-led trillionaire banker friends are at the very top of the Global Pyramid of Power, calling the shots. They rule the world. Remember, IN MY OPINION, those with the most gold rule.

Again, please forgive me for being so insulting to those of you with whom I disagree. You are entitled to your opinions and I should show you respect, regardless.

I honestly love you. I know that seems ridiculous to say after being so insulting, but I really do. Why? Because I believe that Einstein's Unified Field is also intelligent, and that we are all connected, all part of the oneness, making us all part of the same whole, bothers and sisters so to speak. I think of all of us as gods within GOD. Yeah, some may disagree but this is MY OPINION.

I love you. Please forgive me for being unloving. I honestly do feel bad when I act that way, so I do feel the pain. However, now that I've told you I love you, I feel MO BETTA.

"I'm sorry I'm so much smarter and know so much more than all of you people" is not an apology.

Especially when you are so obviously none of those things.

INRM · 24th January 2009, 08:36 AM

I don't see why hemp is illegal.

Because people make pot out of it? I think this is so ridiculous.

I think Marijuana should be legal. That way they could just sell the damn thing in a Pharmacy, it could be taxed, drug dealers would be out of business as there is no way they could get something as pure as this. You could even extract the Delta-9 THC and put it in capsules or in some kind of inhaler. That way you can get high without the smoke.

Out of all the drug-addicts, pot-addicts are probably the least harmful behavior wise (the smoke ain't good though -- but either is cigarettes)

INRM

kookbreaker · 24th January 2009, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by INRM

I don't see why hemp is illegal.

Because people make pot out of it? I think this is so ridiculous.

Hemp is illegal because it resembles pot and is in the same family. It was unfortunate that it resembled MJ plants.

Personally, I don't give a damn if it or MJ was legal or not. What bugs me is that lies and conspiracy tales are being told as part of an 'end around' tactic that is not only deceptive (read the Straight Dope column cited in this thread) but also would lead folks to have hopes far too high on this crop. Just over 10 years ago, the legalization crowd would have you believe that the moment Hemp was legalized Global Warming would stop and all our pollution woes would dry up with the first harvest.

t'ain't so.

Cl1mh4224rd · 24th January 2009, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Personally, I don't give a damn if it or MJ was legal or not. What bugs me is that lies and conspiracy tales are being told as part of an 'end around' tactic that is not only deceptive (read the Straight Dope column cited in this thread) but also would lead folks to have hopes far too high on this crop.

Agreed. ~~The tactics~~ Some of the tactics used by some of the people who consider themselves part of the Legalize It™ crowd ~~use~~ really are nothing more than pro-weed propaganda.

Lonewulf · 24th January 2009, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

Agreed. The tactics the Legalize It™ crowd use really are nothing more than pro-weed propaganda.

Even though I don't smoke marijuana at all (nor do I abuse drugs at alll, including tobacco or alcohol), I guess I'm still a part of the Legalize It (tm, LOLZORS!!111one) crowd. I suppose, also, that pointing out how many people go to jail thanks to owning and/or ingesting marijuana, and how much of a strain that's putting on our prison system, is "nothing more than pro-weed propaganda".

Either that, or maybe you were painting with a rather broad of a brush, as you failed to define what the "Legalize it (tm)" crowd was supposed to incorporate, exactly.

Cl1mh4224rd · 24th January 2009, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Either that, or maybe you were painting with a rather broad of a brush, as you failed to define what the "Legalize it (tm)" crowd was supposed to incorporate, exactly.

Bah. It's this one. I guess I should say "some of the tactics that some of the people who consider themselves part of the Legalize It™ crowd".

Lonewulf · 24th January 2009, 12:00 PM

Fair enough.

Childlike Empress · 24th January 2009, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Hemp is illegal because it resembles pot and is in the same family. It was unfortunate that it resembled MJ plants.

MJ Plants? What?

kookbreaker · 24th January 2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

MJ Plants? What?

Marijuana.

Childlike Empress · 24th January 2009, 01:03 PM

So you think that a "Marijuana plant" is something different from "Hemp"?

kookbreaker · 24th January 2009, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

So you think that a "Marijuana plant" is something different from "Hemp"?

Poor choice of words on my part, but the basis remains. Cannabis strains cultivated for any industry could not be distinguished from those used for the drug of the same name. That is why the entire family was banned, not for any real fear of it being competitive with other industrial sources.

Childlike Empress · 24th January 2009, 01:33 PM

Well, many people, especially older people, don't know that the Cannabis plant is both the good old "Hemp" and the source for the infamous "Marijuana". They would have to look it up. My Grandfather giggled when i told him what that evil drug was...

That's why Anslinger and his backers invented the propaganda term "Marijuana" in the first place. It was mexican slang and played with the racist prejudices of that time.

The hemp plant has been used in all kinds of ways, including smoking the blossom, for hundreds of years, all over the world, kookbreaker - why "ban" it just at the same time when eventually the machines were developed to industrialise it?

kookbreaker · 24th January 2009, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

The hemp plant has been used in all kinds of ways, including smoking the blossom, for hundreds of years, all over the world, kookbreaker - why "ban" it just at the same time when eventually the machines were developed to industrialise it?

You are far too optimistic about hemp's potentials. See my first post in this thread. Most of the folks named as being conspirators didn't give a fig about hemp, and its 'industrial potential' in the 30's was pretty much a pipe dream.

Childlike Empress · 24th January 2009, 02:08 PM

Oh i've read that post now. I've read a lot of "Horse-Crap" and "Nonsense". Lots of unfounded assertions and cheap tricks, too. Revealing.

kookbreaker · 24th January 2009, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Oh i've read that post now. I've read a lot of "Horse-Crap" and "Nonsense". Lots of unfounded assertions and cheap tricks, too. Revealing.

Got a point? Or did you just want to dance around one all day?

DaN K. StAnLeY · 24th January 2009, 09:49 PM

Looks like we gotta live one, Pa!! Darn, and right after I tried to counter the argument that pot doesn't make you a gullible, CT believer.

Quote:

Hell, there are countless people participating on this forum who still believe Osama bin Laden was responsible for the crimes on 9/11. Why? The government told them so. The the official 9/11 report is proof, right?

I'm affraid you guys might be wasting your breath by arguing with a "truther." If he treats this subject with the same scrutiny as 9/11, I'm affraid you'll never convince him that it's not David Roc's fault marijuana is illegal. I'm just waiting for the whole "Jews don't want pot to be legal" argument to surface in 5, 4, 3, 2......

Quote:

Why why why can't the pro-marijuana movement just come out and say:

"I enjoy smoking weed. It's harmless. It should be legal. I want it legalized so that I and others can continue to smoke and enjoy it."

Okay, okay, I enjoy smoking weed. It's harmless. It should be legal. I want it legalized so that I and others can continue to smoke and enjoy it.

Lonewulf · 24th January 2009, 10:15 PM

I don't smoke marijuana. I might someday, if just so Reefer Madness would be even more cool to watch (the musical parody, not the original... though that might be fun too!)

I don't smoke tobacco, I don't get drunk, and I avoid abusing drugs in general.

Yet, I want to legalize marijuana. Why? Because, quite frankly, the major strain on prisons today have to do with such minor offenses as, say, simply possessing or ingesting drugs like marijuana, while alcohol is treated with a pat on the wrist if one isn't driving while intoxicated. There are several other arguments, including the economics of a few agricultural-based states. Further, the hypocrisy of not outlawing alcohol. Plus, a total lack of evidence, outside of very loose correlation, that marijuana is a "gateway drug" (one of the most used attacks on it).

(This already counters such interesting claims that I've seen from others that, say, those that want to legalize marijuana are "just looking for an excuse to smoke").

fls · 25th January 2009, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by bwinwright

Of course, all the canvas was made from it, rope, and the strongest, most durable clothing, even the finest lace.

As a weaver and spinner and amateur archaeologist, the fibre claims for hemp always bug me.

Hemp has been used for fibre for thousands of years - maybe as early as 5000 BCE starting in northeast Asia. Yet its use was supplanted when other fibres became available, in particular flax, silk, cotton and wool. Why? Because it wasn't as nice or useful as these other fibres when it came to clothing. It is a strong fibre, in particular it is strong when wet, which makes it a good choice for rope. But otherwise, its use dropped off long before a conspiracy was mounted against it simply because other fibres have better properties when it comes to fabric, clothing or fine lace.

Linda

Lonewulf · 25th January 2009, 06:33 AM

I know I'm citing Wikipedia, and some consider that a no-no, but the wiki article seems to be overall positive on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Uses

It certainly seems useful to me, although the entry under "medicine" is woefully absent, although diverts to medicinal cannabis.

The article under medicinal cannabis, seems to suggest that cannabis was used as a medicine throughout the world for a very long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicinal_cannabis#History

Quote:

According to a survey on the recommendation of cannabis in California,[36] cannabis is indicated for over 250 conditions.

Indication Benefit
Arthritis: Analgesic, antiinflammatory

Asthma: Opens up airways in lungs

Depression: Brightens mood

Glaucoma: Reduces eye pressure

Pain: Non-opiate, non-addictive pain killer

I dunno, it seems to suggest that there's something here. Maybe it's not that incredible; maybe these people making the articles are incredibly biased people that just want the ability to smoke weed. I dunno.

(The cite for the bit on medicinal purposes of cannabis leads to here: http://www.canorml.org/prop/MMJIndications.htm)

kookbreaker · 25th January 2009, 08:26 AM

Come on Lonewulf. You've seen the antics of alt-med types when they decide some herb or another is the latest thing and soon its list of 'things herb x treats' grows exponentially. This is pretty much the same thing.

Axiom_Blade · 25th January 2009, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Poor choice of words on my part, but the basis remains. Cannabis strains cultivated for any industry could not be distinguished from those used for the drug of the same name. That is why the entire family was banned, not for any real fear of it being competitive with other industrial sources.

No. Hemp plants are related, but different from, cannabis plants. You could smoke hemp all day, and you wouldn't get high.

So, legalizing hemp would not automatically legalize cannabis.

kookbreaker · 25th January 2009, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade

No. Hemp plants are related, but different from, cannabis plants. You could smoke hemp all day, and you wouldn't get high.

So, legalizing hemp would not automatically legalize cannabis.

Except that, as I stated, they are too hard to distinguish from each other.

Hell, Canadian farmers growing hemp have to give their boards of agriculture the GPS co-ordinates of the fields hemp is being grown in order to avoid confusion with potential pot farms.

Axiom_Blade · 25th January 2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Come on Lonewulf. You've seen the antics of alt-med types when they decide some herb or another is the latest thing and soon its list of 'things herb x treats' grows exponentially. This is pretty much the same thing.

I would think its effectiveness as an analgesic and mood brightener, at least, would be obvious.

Lonewulf · 25th January 2009, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Come on Lonewulf. You've seen the antics of alt-med types when they decide some herb or another is the latest thing and soon its list of 'things herb x treats' grows exponentially. This is pretty much the same thing.

The treatments that were listed seemed perfectly logical to me. It certainly doesn't cure cancer or do anything extraordinary, but it works well at alleviating certain symptoms.

Personally, I think that there are far too many treatments for things like depression and the like, that come with so many side effects or have the chance of not working in certain patients (as well as causing them to build up a resistance), that the more treatments we have, the better, and I'm not convinced that cannabis has enough detrimental side effects to be considered worse than some prescription and even over-the-counter medication we use today.

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Except that, as I stated, they are too hard to distinguish from each other.

Hell, Canadian farmers growing hemp have to give their boards of agriculture the GPS co-ordinates of the fields hemp is being grown in order to avoid confusion with potential pot farms.

That's an argument for greater precautions, not an argument for banning its use or growth entirely.

Though I'm still for the legalization of marijuana in general, so for me at least, the point is moot.

kookbreaker · 25th January 2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

The treatments that were listed seemed perfectly logical to me. It certainly doesn't cure cancer or do anything extraordinary, but it works well at alleviating certain symptoms.

Granted, although when I look at lists and see something you smoke as a treatment for asthma I have to raise an eyebrow. Sounds too much like doctors in 50's cigarette ads telling your to smoke for lung's benefit.

Quote:

That's an argument for greater precautions, not an argument for banning its use or growth entirely.

I'm not claiming it is an arguement for banning, merely point out that hemp got swept up because it was too close in appearance.

Quote:

Though I'm still for the legalization of marijuana in general.

I don't really care either way, but the lies and paranoid conspiracy mongering annoy me. As does the mistruths about hemp's industrial potential. I'm a little concerned that some overenthusiastic hemp advocates might lead some farmers to grow crops there isn't enough demand for.

I do have to say for my friends with pet birds that it would be nice for them to have hemp seeds back in standard bird seed.

Lonewulf · 25th January 2009, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Granted, although when I look at lists and see something you smoke as a treatment for asthma I have to raise an eyebrow. Sounds too much like doctors in 50's cigarette ads telling your to smoke for lung's benefit.

Er?

There's other ways to ingest cannabis besides through smoking it.

Quote:

I'm not claiming it is an arguement for banning, merely point out that hemp got swept up because it was too close in appearance.

Okay.

Quote:

I don't really care either way, but the lies and paranoid conspiracy mongering annoy me. As does the mistruths about hemp's industrial potential. I'm a little concerned that some overenthusiastic hemp advocates might lead some farmers to grow crops there isn't enough demand for.

I understand that.

But hemp does have a lot of uses. If it didn't have any industrial potential, it wouldn't be used at all.

Quote:

I do have to say for my friends with pet birds that it would be nice for them to have hemp seeds back in standard bird seed.

Hemp seeds are also healthy for human consumption, and are quite nutritious, as the link I gave claimed.

If there's an overproduction of hemp, then it would lower the costs of some health foods based on hemp, I'd think. That is, assuming the U.S. government doesn't try to subsidize them.

As for paranoia about some conspiracy theory.... well... I dunno about that. I do know that there was a lot of misinformation going around, and I wouldn't be surprised if there still is.

I mean, just think. Reefer Madness was made as a docudrama! Marijuana is worse than cocaine or heroin!

kookbreaker · 25th January 2009, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

I understand that.

But hemp does have a lot of uses. If it didn't have any industrial potential, it wouldn't be used at all.

That does not mean it is the best in all fields as its advocates would have you believe. In fact in most of the fields where it its praises are sung it is usually, at best , a distant second.

Quote:

Hemp seeds are also healthy for human consumption, and are quite nutritious, as the link I gave claimed.

If there's an overproduction of hemp, then it would lower the costs of some health foods based on hemp, I'd think. That is, assuming the U.S. government doesn't try to subsidize them.

I have my doubts there is that much demand. Just because someone lowers the price on a piece of junk by 50% does not mean demand

Quote:

As for paranoia about some conspiracy theory.... well... I dunno about that. I do know that there was a lot of misinformation going around, and I wouldn't be surprised if there still is.

Read the OP, that's pure paranoia and conspiracy mongering. Along with way too much misinformation and arrogance.

Quote:

I mean, just think. Reefer Madness was made as a docudrama! Marijuana is worse than cocaine or heroin!

I'm not saying the 'pro-ban' crowd wasn't full of crap, I'm just saying fighting lies with even more lies isn't going to win anyone over.

BenBurch · 25th January 2009, 09:44 AM

Well, wonder drug, no.

Really great crop to make paper and durable fabric and the equivalent of particle board while also getting a minor oil crop and animal feed as a byproduct? Yes. That it is.

And there is no rational basis to ban it whatsoever.

And I emphasize "minor" because some real idiots are selling it as a total replacement for all diesel fuel used today, which it NEVER will be.

Childlike Empress · 25th January 2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade

No. Hemp plants are related, but different from, cannabis plants. You could smoke hemp all day, and you wouldn't get high.

So, legalizing hemp would not automatically legalize cannabis.

BS. Hemp is the plant Cannabis. What you mean is that the Cannabis sativa used for fibre production etc. produces nearly no THC, but that's a cultivation thing. The plant is always Cannabis. Legalizing Hemp would therefore automatically legalize Cannabis, although one can of course only allow cultivations with minimal THC-level, as it is done in Germany, fe. That leads to buerocracy and very expensive seeds, hence no breakthrough.

kookbreaker · 25th January 2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Really great crop to make paper and durable fabric and the equivalent of particle board while also getting a minor oil crop and animal feed as a byproduct? Yes. That it is.

I still have strong doubts about using Hemp for making paper. The paper made with it in the past was unimpressive, and for all the attention it gets the modern hemp paper isn't worth a damn either. If hemp is made into paper it would be the scrap 'packing paper' stuff. I also worry about production of this new line as it effectively resets years of paper-making technology, which includes pollution controls.

Praktik · 25th January 2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Granted, although when I look at lists and see something you smoke as a treatment for asthma I have to raise an eyebrow. Sounds too much like doctors in 50's cigarette ads telling your to smoke for lung's benefit

Ya it does seem counterintuitive doesn't it? But actually if you smoke pure pot (ie, dont mix tobacco in), then it has a "bronchiodilation" effect - effectively opening up the lungs. I noticed that if I was congested during a cold and coughing, that marijuana would provide some temporary coughing relief as my lungs opened up a bit. THough later on it seemed like the coughing would resume at a slightly higher frequency.

So I don't smoke much when I'm sick but sometimes I've found it helped. THere are reports of it helping individuals in an asthma attack where it has a similar effect to those breathing meds they take in puffers if they are not at hand for delivery. So if you got a jay on you and someone starts an attack - do him a favour and pass it along. I will add that once I was being tested with a stethoscope while I breathed deeply, and my doc asked if I was a smoker: I had been quit tobacco for some years and only smoked weed (albeit, daily). So there was the same kind of rigidity in my lungs that tobacco smokers get, likely from tar. Obviously there are things to worry about when smoking anything..

Here's some more research on it.

dudalb · 25th January 2009, 11:32 AM

I think Pot should be legalized, but I am not convinced that Hemp is going to be any kind of a great economic boon.

Lonewulf · 25th January 2009, 11:41 AM

I doubt it'll hurt, either.

kookbreaker · 25th January 2009, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

I doubt it'll hurt, either.

I doubt it would hurt either, the only way it would hurt is if the advocates so excessively promote its features that some people overcommit to its production and/or development.

I wouldn't even mention it as a detriment if it were not for the advocates trying to push so hard down that very path.

tyr_13 · 25th January 2009, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by David Wong

Why why why can't the pro-marijuana movement just come out and say:

"I enjoy smoking weed. It's harmless. It should be legal. I want it legalized so that I and others can continue to smoke and enjoy it."

I'll agree with them. What do I care?

But this is so freaking annoying the way they try this back door argument about paper and conspiracies and cancer and on and on and on. That kind of dishonesty just completely kills any sympathy I have for your cause.

This used to drive me nuts in college, legalizing "hemp" was the only issue I saw a lot of my friends get really passionate about. Yeah, you draw marijuana leafs on all your notebooks because you care about the paper industry. Riiiiiight...

Oh, and nice dreadlocks.

Ditto. Whenever someone starts talking about the 'wonders of hemp' I just roll my eyes because they never actually know anything about it. Mulberry is better in almost every way. Damn, hemp isn't that great and really, doesn't have much to do with weed anyway.

angelsaramark · 25th January 2009, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by bwinwright

How can you be so sure about the effects of hemp oil on the immune system? Where is your evidence of this? Just admit it, you're guessing. You don't really have a clue do you?

You probably believe radiation and chemotherapy are the best cancer treatments available, don't you? Of course you do. Our medical establishment is absolutely squeaky clean, isn't it? The lust for billions in profits has absolutely nothing to do with the marijuana question, right? Can you say naive?

Who shapes, fashions, and creates the mass attitude about virtually everything?
Read up on the Tavistock Institute and Operation Mockingbird. Your naivety is the result of such sophisticated programming.

The Golden Rule? He who has the most gold rules. You naive girls need to awaken to this reality. This is REAL. You are so easily controlled.

Finally some logic on this forum! Carryon good Sir/Madam!

24th January 2009, 12:37 AM	#41
Mashuna Ovis ex Machina Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Welsh Wales Posts: 6,581	Originally Posted by bwinwright I apologize for my ill manners. I just don't have much patience for folks who refuse to face the ugly truth about the super rich folks who control things. The Tavistock Institute and Operation Mockingbird gang have done such a fantastic job of programming people to believe such nonsense. Again, I apologize for being so insulting. I probably shouldn't participate in such forums with so many idealists who reject the idea that virtually everything is a conspiracy today. The honest truth, IN MY OPINION, is that things are much, much uglier and more diabolical than most folks believe. Again, forgive me. I honestly wish we were ruled by a more loving group of trillionaires. The world could be such a wonderful place. However, the truth appears to be, IN MY OPINION, that the Jesuit General, along with his Rothschild-led trillionaire banker friends are at the very top of the Global Pyramid of Power, calling the shots. They rule the world. Remember, IN MY OPINION, those with the most gold rule. Again, please forgive me for being so insulting to those of you with whom I disagree. You are entitled to your opinions and I should show you respect, regardless. I honestly love you. I know that seems ridiculous to say after being so insulting, but I really do. Why? Because I believe that Einstein's Unified Field is also intelligent, and that we are all connected, all part of the oneness, making us all part of the same whole, bothers and sisters so to speak. I think of all of us as gods within GOD. Yeah, some may disagree but this is MY OPINION. I love you. Please forgive me for being unloving. I honestly do feel bad when I act that way, so I do feel the pain. However, now that I've told you I love you, I feel MO BETTA. Perhaps you could carry out some research into the properties of hemp oil yourself. You've clearly got a good supply already.
	__________________ GENERATION 10: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and put in a random number. Anti-social experiment.

24th January 2009, 01:21 AM	#43
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,270	11:20 pm?
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24th January 2009, 08:36 AM	#46
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490	I don't see why hemp is illegal. Because people make pot out of it? I think this is so ridiculous. I think Marijuana should be legal. That way they could just sell the damn thing in a Pharmacy, it could be taxed, drug dealers would be out of business as there is no way they could get something as pure as this. You could even extract the Delta-9 THC and put it in capsules or in some kind of inhaler. That way you can get high without the smoke. Out of all the drug-addicts, pot-addicts are probably the least harmful behavior wise (the smoke ain't good though -- but either is cigarettes) INRM
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490

24th January 2009, 09:46 AM	#47
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by INRM I don't see why hemp is illegal. Because people make pot out of it? I think this is so ridiculous. Hemp is illegal because it resembles pot and is in the same family. It was unfortunate that it resembled MJ plants. Personally, I don't give a damn if it or MJ was legal or not. What bugs me is that lies and conspiracy tales are being told as part of an 'end around' tactic that is not only deceptive (read the Straight Dope column cited in this thread) but also would lead folks to have hopes far too high on this crop. Just over 10 years ago, the legalization crowd would have you believe that the moment Hemp was legalized Global Warming would stop and all our pollution woes would dry up with the first harvest. t'ain't so.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

24th January 2009, 11:23 AM	#48
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Personally, I don't give a damn if it or MJ was legal or not. What bugs me is that lies and conspiracy tales are being told as part of an 'end around' tactic that is not only deceptive (read the Straight Dope column cited in this thread) but also would lead folks to have hopes far too high on this crop. Agreed. ~~The tactics~~ Some of the tactics used by some of the people who consider themselves part of the Legalize It™ crowd ~~use~~ really are nothing more than pro-weed propaganda.
	Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 24th January 2009 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Trying not to look like a generalizing jackass...

24th January 2009, 01:20 AM	#42
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,577	I think a good economic argument could be made to legalize it and tax it. The scientists at Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds could no doubt grow some kick-(rule10) weed.* And if you taxed it at, say, $500 a pound, you could raise a whole lotta revenue. * - Assuming they don't already, that is ETA: Look what time I made this post..

24th January 2009, 02:48 AM	#44
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,577	I guess it only works in the Eastern time zone.

24th January 2009, 03:20 AM	#45
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Originally Posted by bwinwright I apologize for my ill manners. I just don't have much patience for folks who refuse to face the ugly truth about the super rich folks who control things. The Tavistock Institute and Operation Mockingbird gang have done such a fantastic job of programming people to believe such nonsense. Again, I apologize for being so insulting. I probably shouldn't participate in such forums with so many idealists who reject the idea that virtually everything is a conspiracy today. The honest truth, IN MY OPINION, is that things are much, much uglier and more diabolical than most folks believe. Again, forgive me. I honestly wish we were ruled by a more loving group of trillionaires. The world could be such a wonderful place. However, the truth appears to be, IN MY OPINION, that the Jesuit General, along with his Rothschild-led trillionaire banker friends are at the very top of the Global Pyramid of Power, calling the shots. They rule the world. Remember, IN MY OPINION, those with the most gold rule. Again, please forgive me for being so insulting to those of you with whom I disagree. You are entitled to your opinions and I should show you respect, regardless. I honestly love you. I know that seems ridiculous to say after being so insulting, but I really do. Why? Because I believe that Einstein's Unified Field is also intelligent, and that we are all connected, all part of the oneness, making us all part of the same whole, bothers and sisters so to speak. I think of all of us as gods within GOD. Yeah, some may disagree but this is MY OPINION. I love you. Please forgive me for being unloving. I honestly do feel bad when I act that way, so I do feel the pain. However, now that I've told you I love you, I feel MO BETTA. "I'm sorry I'm so much smarter and know so much more than all of you people" is not an apology. Especially when you are so obviously none of those things.

24th January 2009, 11:27 AM	#49
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd Agreed. The tactics the Legalize It™ crowd use really are nothing more than pro-weed propaganda. Even though I don't smoke marijuana at all (nor do I abuse drugs at alll, including tobacco or alcohol), I guess I'm still a part of the Legalize It (tm, LOLZORS!!111one) crowd. I suppose, also, that pointing out how many people go to jail thanks to owning and/or ingesting marijuana, and how much of a strain that's putting on our prison system, is "nothing more than pro-weed propaganda". Either that, or maybe you were painting with a rather broad of a brush, as you failed to define what the "Legalize it (tm)" crowd was supposed to incorporate, exactly.
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24th January 2009, 11:32 AM	#50
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by Lonewulf Either that, or maybe you were painting with a rather broad of a brush, as you failed to define what the "Legalize it (tm)" crowd was supposed to incorporate, exactly. Bah. It's this one. I guess I should say "some of the tactics that some of the people who consider themselves part of the Legalize It™ crowd".

24th January 2009, 12:00 PM	#51
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Fair enough.
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24th January 2009, 12:26 PM	#52
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 7,840	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Hemp is illegal because it resembles pot and is in the same family. It was unfortunate that it resembled MJ plants. MJ Plants? What?
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24th January 2009, 12:47 PM	#53
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress MJ Plants? What? Marijuana.
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24th January 2009, 01:03 PM	#54
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 7,840	So you think that a "Marijuana plant" is something different from "Hemp"?
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24th January 2009, 01:13 PM	#55
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress So you think that a "Marijuana plant" is something different from "Hemp"? Poor choice of words on my part, but the basis remains. Cannabis strains cultivated for any industry could not be distinguished from those used for the drug of the same name. That is why the entire family was banned, not for any real fear of it being competitive with other industrial sources.
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24th January 2009, 01:33 PM	#56
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 7,840	Well, many people, especially older people, don't know that the Cannabis plant is both the good old "Hemp" and the source for the infamous "Marijuana". They would have to look it up. My Grandfather giggled when i told him what that evil drug was... That's why Anslinger and his backers invented the propaganda term "Marijuana" in the first place. It was mexican slang and played with the racist prejudices of that time. The hemp plant has been used in all kinds of ways, including smoking the blossom, for hundreds of years, all over the world, kookbreaker - why "ban" it just at the same time when eventually the machines were developed to industrialise it?
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24th January 2009, 01:54 PM	#57
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress The hemp plant has been used in all kinds of ways, including smoking the blossom, for hundreds of years, all over the world, kookbreaker - why "ban" it just at the same time when eventually the machines were developed to industrialise it? You are far too optimistic about hemp's potentials. See my first post in this thread. Most of the folks named as being conspirators didn't give a fig about hemp, and its 'industrial potential' in the 30's was pretty much a pipe dream.
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24th January 2009, 02:08 PM	#58
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 7,840	Oh i've read that post now. I've read a lot of "Horse-Crap" and "Nonsense". Lots of unfounded assertions and cheap tricks, too. Revealing.
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24th January 2009, 02:56 PM	#59
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress Oh i've read that post now. I've read a lot of "Horse-Crap" and "Nonsense". Lots of unfounded assertions and cheap tricks, too. Revealing. Got a point? Or did you just want to dance around one all day?
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24th January 2009, 09:49 PM	#60
DaN K. StAnLeY Muse Join Date: May 2008 Location: CENTCOM Operations Hub.... Posts: 826	Looks like we gotta live one, Pa!! Darn, and right after I tried to counter the argument that pot doesn't make you a gullible, CT believer. Quote: Hell, there are countless people participating on this forum who still believe Osama bin Laden was responsible for the crimes on 9/11. Why? The government told them so. The the official 9/11 report is proof, right? I'm affraid you guys might be wasting your breath by arguing with a "truther." If he treats this subject with the same scrutiny as 9/11, I'm affraid you'll never convince him that it's not David Roc's fault marijuana is illegal. I'm just waiting for the whole "Jews don't want pot to be legal" argument to surface in 5, 4, 3, 2...... Quote: Why why why can't the pro-marijuana movement just come out and say: "I enjoy smoking weed. It's harmless. It should be legal. I want it legalized so that I and others can continue to smoke and enjoy it." Okay, okay, I enjoy smoking weed. It's harmless. It should be legal. I want it legalized so that I and others can continue to smoke and enjoy it.
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24th January 2009, 10:15 PM	#61
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	I don't smoke marijuana. I might someday, if just so Reefer Madness would be even more cool to watch (the musical parody, not the original... though that might be fun too!) I don't smoke tobacco, I don't get drunk, and I avoid abusing drugs in general. Yet, I want to legalize marijuana. Why? Because, quite frankly, the major strain on prisons today have to do with such minor offenses as, say, simply possessing or ingesting drugs like marijuana, while alcohol is treated with a pat on the wrist if one isn't driving while intoxicated. There are several other arguments, including the economics of a few agricultural-based states. Further, the hypocrisy of not outlawing alcohol. Plus, a total lack of evidence, outside of very loose correlation, that marijuana is a "gateway drug" (one of the most used attacks on it). (This already counters such interesting claims that I've seen from others that, say, those that want to legalize marijuana are "just looking for an excuse to smoke").
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25th January 2009, 04:25 AM	#62
fls Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,236	Originally Posted by bwinwright Of course, all the canvas was made from it, rope, and the strongest, most durable clothing, even the finest lace. As a weaver and spinner and amateur archaeologist, the fibre claims for hemp always bug me. Hemp has been used for fibre for thousands of years - maybe as early as 5000 BCE starting in northeast Asia. Yet its use was supplanted when other fibres became available, in particular flax, silk, cotton and wool. Why? Because it wasn't as nice or useful as these other fibres when it came to clothing. It is a strong fibre, in particular it is strong when wet, which makes it a good choice for rope. But otherwise, its use dropped off long before a conspiracy was mounted against it simply because other fibres have better properties when it comes to fabric, clothing or fine lace. Linda
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25th January 2009, 06:33 AM	#63
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	I know I'm citing Wikipedia, and some consider that a no-no, but the wiki article seems to be overall positive on the subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp#Uses It certainly seems useful to me, although the entry under "medicine" is woefully absent, although diverts to medicinal cannabis. The article under medicinal cannabis, seems to suggest that cannabis was used as a medicine throughout the world for a very long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicinal_cannabis#History Quote: According to a survey on the recommendation of cannabis in California,[36] cannabis is indicated for over 250 conditions. Indication Benefit Arthritis: Analgesic, antiinflammatory Asthma: Opens up airways in lungs Depression: Brightens mood Glaucoma: Reduces eye pressure Pain: Non-opiate, non-addictive pain killer I dunno, it seems to suggest that there's something here. Maybe it's not that incredible; maybe these people making the articles are incredibly biased people that just want the ability to smoke weed. I dunno. (The cite for the bit on medicinal purposes of cannabis leads to here: http://www.canorml.org/prop/MMJIndications.htm)
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25th January 2009, 08:26 AM	#64
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Come on Lonewulf. You've seen the antics of alt-med types when they decide some herb or another is the latest thing and soon its list of 'things herb x treats' grows exponentially. This is pretty much the same thing.
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25th January 2009, 08:33 AM	#65
Axiom_Blade Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,748	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Poor choice of words on my part, but the basis remains. Cannabis strains cultivated for any industry could not be distinguished from those used for the drug of the same name. That is why the entire family was banned, not for any real fear of it being competitive with other industrial sources. No. Hemp plants are related, but different from, cannabis plants. You could smoke hemp all day, and you wouldn't get high. So, legalizing hemp would not automatically legalize cannabis.

25th January 2009, 08:43 AM	#66
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade No. Hemp plants are related, but different from, cannabis plants. You could smoke hemp all day, and you wouldn't get high. So, legalizing hemp would not automatically legalize cannabis. Except that, as I stated, they are too hard to distinguish from each other. Hell, Canadian farmers growing hemp have to give their boards of agriculture the GPS co-ordinates of the fields hemp is being grown in order to avoid confusion with potential pot farms.
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25th January 2009, 08:44 AM	#67
Axiom_Blade Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,748	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Come on Lonewulf. You've seen the antics of alt-med types when they decide some herb or another is the latest thing and soon its list of 'things herb x treats' grows exponentially. This is pretty much the same thing. I would think its effectiveness as an analgesic and mood brightener, at least, would be obvious.

25th January 2009, 08:53 AM	#68
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Come on Lonewulf. You've seen the antics of alt-med types when they decide some herb or another is the latest thing and soon its list of 'things herb x treats' grows exponentially. This is pretty much the same thing. The treatments that were listed seemed perfectly logical to me. It certainly doesn't cure cancer or do anything extraordinary, but it works well at alleviating certain symptoms. Personally, I think that there are far too many treatments for things like depression and the like, that come with so many side effects or have the chance of not working in certain patients (as well as causing them to build up a resistance), that the more treatments we have, the better, and I'm not convinced that cannabis has enough detrimental side effects to be considered worse than some prescription and even over-the-counter medication we use today. Originally Posted by kookbreaker Except that, as I stated, they are too hard to distinguish from each other. Hell, Canadian farmers growing hemp have to give their boards of agriculture the GPS co-ordinates of the fields hemp is being grown in order to avoid confusion with potential pot farms. That's an argument for greater precautions, not an argument for banning its use or growth entirely. Though I'm still for the legalization of marijuana in general, so for me at least, the point is moot.
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25th January 2009, 09:00 AM	#69
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Lonewulf The treatments that were listed seemed perfectly logical to me. It certainly doesn't cure cancer or do anything extraordinary, but it works well at alleviating certain symptoms. Granted, although when I look at lists and see something you smoke as a treatment for asthma I have to raise an eyebrow. Sounds too much like doctors in 50's cigarette ads telling your to smoke for lung's benefit. Quote: That's an argument for greater precautions, not an argument for banning its use or growth entirely. I'm not claiming it is an arguement for banning, merely point out that hemp got swept up because it was too close in appearance. Quote: Though I'm still for the legalization of marijuana in general. I don't really care either way, but the lies and paranoid conspiracy mongering annoy me. As does the mistruths about hemp's industrial potential. I'm a little concerned that some overenthusiastic hemp advocates might lead some farmers to grow crops there isn't enough demand for. I do have to say for my friends with pet birds that it would be nice for them to have hemp seeds back in standard bird seed.
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25th January 2009, 09:05 AM	#70
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Granted, although when I look at lists and see something you smoke as a treatment for asthma I have to raise an eyebrow. Sounds too much like doctors in 50's cigarette ads telling your to smoke for lung's benefit. Er? There's other ways to ingest cannabis besides through smoking it. Quote: I'm not claiming it is an arguement for banning, merely point out that hemp got swept up because it was too close in appearance. Okay. Quote: I don't really care either way, but the lies and paranoid conspiracy mongering annoy me. As does the mistruths about hemp's industrial potential. I'm a little concerned that some overenthusiastic hemp advocates might lead some farmers to grow crops there isn't enough demand for. I understand that. But hemp does have a lot of uses. If it didn't have any industrial potential, it wouldn't be used at all. Quote: I do have to say for my friends with pet birds that it would be nice for them to have hemp seeds back in standard bird seed. Hemp seeds are also healthy for human consumption, and are quite nutritious, as the link I gave claimed. If there's an overproduction of hemp, then it would lower the costs of some health foods based on hemp, I'd think. That is, assuming the U.S. government doesn't try to subsidize them. As for paranoia about some conspiracy theory.... well... I dunno about that. I do know that there was a lot of misinformation going around, and I wouldn't be surprised if there still is. I mean, just think. Reefer Madness was made as a docudrama! Marijuana is worse than cocaine or heroin!
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25th January 2009, 09:32 AM	#71
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Lonewulf I understand that. But hemp does have a lot of uses. If it didn't have any industrial potential, it wouldn't be used at all. That does not mean it is the best in all fields as its advocates would have you believe. In fact in most of the fields where it its praises are sung it is usually, at best , a distant second. Quote: Hemp seeds are also healthy for human consumption, and are quite nutritious, as the link I gave claimed. If there's an overproduction of hemp, then it would lower the costs of some health foods based on hemp, I'd think. That is, assuming the U.S. government doesn't try to subsidize them. I have my doubts there is that much demand. Just because someone lowers the price on a piece of junk by 50% does not mean demand Quote: As for paranoia about some conspiracy theory.... well... I dunno about that. I do know that there was a lot of misinformation going around, and I wouldn't be surprised if there still is. Read the OP, that's pure paranoia and conspiracy mongering. Along with way too much misinformation and arrogance. Quote: I mean, just think. Reefer Madness was made as a docudrama! Marijuana is worse than cocaine or heroin! I'm not saying the 'pro-ban' crowd wasn't full of crap, I'm just saying fighting lies with even more lies isn't going to win anyone over.
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25th January 2009, 09:44 AM	#72
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,189	Well, wonder drug, no. Really great crop to make paper and durable fabric and the equivalent of particle board while also getting a *minor* oil crop and animal feed as a byproduct? Yes. That it is. And there is no rational basis to ban it whatsoever. And I emphasize "minor" because some real idiots are selling it as a total replacement for all diesel fuel used today, which it NEVER will be.
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25th January 2009, 09:50 AM	#73
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 7,840	Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade No. Hemp plants are related, but different from, cannabis plants. You could smoke hemp all day, and you wouldn't get high. So, legalizing hemp would not automatically legalize cannabis. BS. Hemp is the plant Cannabis. What you mean is that the Cannabis sativa used for fibre production etc. produces nearly no THC, but that's a cultivation thing. The plant is always Cannabis. Legalizing Hemp would therefore automatically legalize Cannabis, although one can of course only allow cultivations with minimal THC-level, as it is done in Germany, fe. That leads to buerocracy and very expensive seeds, hence no breakthrough.
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25th January 2009, 10:06 AM	#74
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by BenBurch Really great crop to make paper and durable fabric and the equivalent of particle board while also getting a *minor* oil crop and animal feed as a byproduct? Yes. That it is. I still have strong doubts about using Hemp for making paper. The paper made with it in the past was unimpressive, and for all the attention it gets the modern hemp paper isn't worth a damn either. If hemp is made into paper it would be the scrap 'packing paper' stuff. I also worry about production of this new line as it effectively resets years of paper-making technology, which includes pollution controls.
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25th January 2009, 10:07 AM	#75
Praktik Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tee Dot Posts: 4,253	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Granted, although when I look at lists and see something you smoke as a treatment for asthma I have to raise an eyebrow. Sounds too much like doctors in 50's cigarette ads telling your to smoke for lung's benefit Ya it does seem counterintuitive doesn't it? But actually if you smoke pure pot (ie, dont mix tobacco in), then it has a "bronchiodilation" effect - effectively opening up the lungs. I noticed that if I was congested during a cold and coughing, that marijuana would provide some temporary coughing relief as my lungs opened up a bit. THough later on it seemed like the coughing would resume at a slightly higher frequency. So I don't smoke much when I'm sick but sometimes I've found it helped. THere are reports of it helping individuals in an asthma attack where it has a similar effect to those breathing meds they take in puffers if they are not at hand for delivery. So if you got a jay on you and someone starts an attack - do him a favour and pass it along. I will add that once I was being tested with a stethoscope while I breathed deeply, and my doc asked if I was a smoker: I had been quit tobacco for some years and only smoked weed (albeit, daily). So there was the same kind of rigidity in my lungs that tobacco smokers get, likely from tar. Obviously there are things to worry about when smoking anything.. Here's some more research on it.
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